Open letter to the Governing Body

Neoluna said:
Lets be very clear here. Its Jehovahs Holy Spririt that moves people and guides them. Not you or your love you have for them. Jehovah is the reader of hearts not us. If you continue to try and talk or convince people what your saying is true and they have the inability to or motivation to be moved in a certain direction, after awhile it becomes you wasting your time. Thats not love
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That's fine; I'll leave that to your account; I'm glad I have a different approach.
 
Neoluna said:
If a person has an inability to reach a rational understanding within the available evidence then likewise one would reasonably say that falls into the category of a mental problem. I would have no desire to associate with someone that does not have the mental acuity or rationality to grasp solid factual evidence on a matter. Would you? Please do extensive research on Cults. What they are, who they prey on, how they control people and most importantly what being in a cult for many years does to a person mentally. It ill cause alot of them to develop mental problems. I grew up in congregations with people that had mental problems. Alot of them.
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I agree that the watchtower causes “mental health problems” by creating paradoxes in reasoning and through its gas lighting - which is part of it. But this is also true of the entire world system of things. I’m sure everyone here has suffered as a consequence and it’s of not that it’s on the increase. However, blindness to fact is not a mental health issue. I’m not splitting hairs - it’s a simple psychiatric fact.

Yes, I would associate with people who can not or have not rational thinking. What is termed “normal” behaviour is simply an agreement. Sixty years ago, homosexuality was “abnormal” - now it’s “normal” and even acceptable to be so and people who are so are found everywhere in responsible positions. They are convinced that they are normal. Try telling that to the laws of nature from which our very existence demanded otherwise. It’s a choice.

To be blind to fact or angry at others for not agreeing is not a mental illness. It often mistaken for such due to the frustration of others - particularly in such cases as sexual preference or religion. And there is the key, “preference”. And if we use the term ‘preference’ then the judgement coming their way becomes understandable because it is their choice. Not an unavoidable affliction. There is no justice in that.

If you compare the average causal root of anger, objection, obstinacy belligerence and greed both physical and mental, along with fear and ignorance of being proven wrong or exposed in one’s private life, with any strongly held belief - critically in one’s self - then the outcomes are very similar. Yet it still is not mental illness. It’s learnt behaviour. A strategy. And this is what we see in the witnesses in general. A strategy for survival.

Some, even those that have been here, have still returned to watchtower. They are neither mentally ill or deranged in some way, but are of a dedicated faith and they are seeking it in every crevice of their soul. People from all walks of life. A person has to do what they must do in search of Jehovah. I personally do not agree with their insight yet I have admiration for them, just as I do for those dedicated witnesses who call at my door. The veil has yet to be lifted. When it is, then I sure we will see an evil the like of which we have never seen. But that is their choice. Made by them.
 
Edith said:
That's fine; I'll leave that to your account; I'm glad I have a different approach.
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Im happy you have a different approach. Im only speaking facts and truth. Anytime you make a decision on emotion, its always the wrong decision. Fact: Jehovahs holy spirit is what moves and motivates people , not your love for them. You may feel that your love for people and wanting them to acquire knowledge by common sense reasoning by talking with them or reminding them , etc will work however your wasting your time if Jehovah has no moved them thru Holy Spirit, esp if that person is a witness that has inability to reach a rational understanding within the available evidence . It may make you feel good but it hasnt accomplished anything. Fact: Jehovah is the reader of hearts, not us. Fact: If you continue to try and talk or convince people what your saying is true and they have the inability to or motivation to be moved in a certain direction, after awhile it becomes you wasting your time. This is just plain common sense and why would you try and convince people of anything that are clearly not going to listen to you or have the inability ?? Thats simply not love. Its mis guided love at best.
 
Neoluna said:
Lets be very clear here. Its Jehovahs Holy Spririt that moves people and guides them. Not you or your love you have for them. Jehovah is the reader of hearts not us. If you continue to try and talk or convince people what your saying is true and they have the inability to or motivation to be moved in a certain direction, after awhile it becomes you wasting your time. Thats not love
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Well I for one am very grateful indeed that the witnesses/Jehovah didn't give up on ME! When I was 16 I listened a little bit, then when I was 19 I listened a little bit, then 21, each time my life went further and further down into the mire and finally, I listened "properly" when I was 25, but I had literally hit rock bottom. Many people would say that a "cult" "captured" me at a "vulnerable" time in my life. Trust me, I was not vulnerable at all, just desperate to find answers to what the heck is life all about really, and answers to the "big" questions. No-one could ever, ever convince me that Jehovah himself had not dragged me out of the mire and gave me answers to all my questions, that somehow , because I was in a mess, mentally and emotionally then another human being made me "better" and then forced me somehow to stay. Granted, after studying for 10yrs in order to be able to stand on my own 2 feet spiritually, on the day of my baptism all hell broke out on the inside of the congregation and my next lot of training began in earnest. After another 25yrs of hard training Jehovah said "that's enough of that, now on to the next chapter" and he brought me over here where I'm learning deep Bible prophecy again with help from the likes of Robert, Timothy, Barney, Mick, Ken, Susan, Goldie, and many others and finding answers to even more questions. It's a very difficult situation to be in though because I'm still having to log on to meetings in order to ensure that the elders don't encourage my son who has slowly allowed the GB to come between him and Jehovah God, to stop mixing with me. He's just taken his eye off of the ball for a bit, he'll get back on track again, I'm sure he will. I've never ever felt I was in a cult, and neither do I feel I'm in a cult in this forum. I've always stood up for the downtrodden and cared for the elderly ones in the congregations, and also always stood up for Jehovah and the Bible. Fair enough, it meant I was never popular, in fact, I've been severely punished for my attitude and my actions. Well, too bad, and tough cheese to all those that didn't "approve" of me. I'll stop being me when I sense JEHOVAH wants me to stop being me. I sincerely believe that Jehovah uses other people to help us spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically. So I will continue speaking to anyone about our wonderful God Jehovah, and Jehovah will draw them at the right time, at THEIR right time ❤️
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Hope springs eternal ❤️ besides, haven't you heard? the GB received an "update" (or is it a "download" 🤔) from Jehovah a few months ago and it was exactly the same as what I've always believed 😅
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Interesting anomaly: download an upload or upload a download to update it. Have you been on the fried Mars bars again Proverbs? Too much sugar …..
Neoluna said:
Lets be very clear here. Its Jehovahs Holy Spririt that moves people and guides them. Not you or your love you have for them. Jehovah is the reader of hearts not us. If you continue to try and talk or convince people what your saying is true and they have the inability to or motivation to be moved in a certain direction, after awhile it becomes you wasting your time. Thats not love
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Jehovah does move the spirit, but he uses his servants to do so as well, until the end comes. How would we know if Jehovah has decided that unless we carry on to the end. He may have decided on a last minute reprieve as He did with Sodom. “Find me ten righteous people and I will spare the entire city.” Looks like Jehovah took it down to the line on that one. That’s why we would go to the end.
 
Neoluna said:
when your trying to reach a person who has no ability to rational understand what your saying and you continue to try and talk with them , thats not love. Thats called a waste of time. Why do you think the society came out years ago and told the brothers and sisters to stop studying with people for years and years. Because its a waste of there time and that time could be spent elsewhere.
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I remember that, it was Anthony Morris who said that, not Jehovah.. I remember thinking oh my goodness, how have they got the nerve to say THAT??!! Only Satan would tell us to stop studying with people!!
 
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BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Interesting anomaly: download an upload or upload a download to update it. Have you been on the fried Mars bars again Proverbs? Too much sugar …..

Jehovah does move the spirit, but he uses his servants to do so as well, until the end comes. How would we know if Jehovah has decided that unless we carry on to the end. He may have decided on a last minute reprieve as He did with Sodom. “Find me ten righteous people and I will spare the entire city.” Looks like Jehovah took it down to the line on that one. That’s why we would go to the end.
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I keep telling you Barney, I'm not far Norf enough to enjoy fried Mars bars, I'm as far Norf as cheesy chips 😂
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I remember that, it was Anthony Morris who said that, not Jehovah.. I remember thinking of my goodness, how have they got the nerve to say THAT??!! Only Satan would tell us to stop studying with people!!
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Why would you continue to study with people for years that show no change or knock on the same door after youve been told to leave? I remember when i was about 15 i was going door to door with a sister who was filled to the brim with love and she had a return visit. This guy had already told her on 3 separate occasions he wasnt interested. We go to the door and she knocks. He answers the door and she starts in on whatever she wants to say. This guy punched her down his steps and reminded her not to come back. She never went back. If Jehovahs holy spirit has not moved a person to stop immoral behavior, etc after youve studied with them for 3,4,5,6 years, why would you continue?? Its just plain common sense.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
I agree that the watchtower causes “mental health problems” by creating paradoxes in reasoning and through its gas lighting - which is part of it. But this is also true of the entire world system of things. I’m sure everyone here has suffered as a consequence and it’s of not that it’s on the increase. However, blindness to fact is not a mental health issue. I’m not splitting hairs - it’s a simple psychiatric fact.

Yes, I would associate with people who can not or have not rational thinking. What is termed “normal” behaviour is simply an agreement. Sixty years ago, homosexuality was “abnormal” - now it’s “normal” and even acceptable to be so and people who are so are found everywhere in responsible positions. They are convinced that they are normal. Try telling that to the laws of nature from which our very existence demanded otherwise. It’s a choice.

To be blind to fact or angry at others for not agreeing is not a mental illness. It often mistaken for such due to the frustration of others - particularly in such cases as sexual preference or religion. And there is the key, “preference”. And if we use the term ‘preference’ then the judgement coming their way becomes understandable because it is their choice. Not an unavoidable affliction. There is no justice in that.

If you compare the average causal root of anger, objection, obstinacy belligerence and greed both physical and mental, along with fear and ignorance of being proven wrong or exposed in one’s private life, with any strongly held belief - critically in one’s self - then the outcomes are very similar. Yet it still is not mental illness. It’s learnt behaviour. A strategy. And this is what we see in the witnesses in general. A strategy for survival.

Some, even those that have been here, have still returned to watchtower. They are neither mentally ill or deranged in some way, but are of a dedicated faith and they are seeking it in every crevice of their soul. People from all walks of life. A person has to do what they must do in search of Jehovah. I personally do not agree with their insight yet I have admiration for them, just as I do for those dedicated witnesses who call at my door. The veil has yet to be lifted. When it is, then I sure we will see an evil the like of which we have never seen. But that is their choice. Made by them.
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That's so true about about the gaslighting and paradoxes in reasoning in the entire system outside of Jah's org too. There's no getting away from it, we just need to use our God given thinking ability and power of reason (after learning Jehovah's thoughts and ways on matters) to discern what's right and what's wrong in Jehovah's eyes, not man's eyes, and the icing on the cake is to be "as cautious as a serpent and as innocent as a dove" Something I really struggle with, but I'm learning 🫣😚
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Interesting anomaly: download an upload or upload a download to update it. Have you been on the fried Mars bars again Proverbs? Too much sugar …..

Jehovah does move the spirit, but he uses his servants to do so as well, until the end comes. How would we know if Jehovah has decided that unless we carry on to the end. He may have decided on a last minute reprieve as He did with Sodom. “Find me ten righteous people and I will spare the entire city.” Looks like Jehovah took it down to the line on that one. That’s why we would go to the end.
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Let me tell you why. Jehovah created us with free will. The ability to reason correctly, make good decisions, base decisions on fact, etc. If youve been dealing with a brother or sister that has the inability to reach a rational understanding within the available evidence , whats left?
 
Neoluna said:
Why would you continue to study with people for years that show no change or knock on the same door after youve been told to leave? I remember when i was about 15 i was going door to door with a sister who was filled to the brim with love and she had a return visit. This guy had already told her on 3 separate occasions he wasnt interested. We go to the door and she knocks. He answers the door and she starts in on whatever she wants to say. This guy punched her down his steps and reminded her not to come back. She never went back. If Jehovahs holy spirit has not moved a person to stop immoral behavior, etc after youve studied with them for 3,4,5,6 years, why would you continue?? Its just plain common sense.
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If people are happy to continue their study for 10yrs then who are WE to say they can't? If both parties are enjoying the meet ups then what's the problem? If someone was really angry when I knocked on their door, the first thing I assumed was that I'd called at a very bad time, I'd apologise, and quickly scoot along. I never thought to myself "I'm never calling on THEM again!! If someone told me to NEVER come back, ever, then I never went back. I've never felt that Jehovah has a time limit on us humans listening to things from the Bible. I can't even think of a bible example 🤔 PS was the sister hurt much? 😬
 
I have an experiment for those who think its not a waste of time to continue talking to people who do not have ability to reach a rational understanding within the available evidence . Does your love extend for those who are not Jehovahs Witnesses? I would hope you would say yes and probably so. Go and find a person who is steeped in the belief of the trinity doctrine. I want you to spend as much time as you can convincing them they are wrong. Use all of your love in your heart for that person and explain why they are wrong. How long do you think it would take you? Would you ever be able to convince them? Is that time well spent?
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
If people are happy to continue their study for 10yrs then who are WE to say they can't? If both parties are enjoying the meet ups then what's the problem? If someone was really angry when I knocked on their door, the first thing I assumed was that I'd called at a very bad time, I'd apologise, and quickly scoot along. I never thought to myself "I'm never calling on THEM again!! If someone told me to NEVER come back, ever, then I never went back. I've never felt that Jehovah has a time limit on us humans listening to things from the Bible. I can't even think of a bible example 🤔 PS was the sister hurt much? 😬
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If someone wants to study for 10 years no one is to say you cant. If both party enjoy the meet ups? Is it a social or are you trying to bring someone to the truth? If someone told you not to come back 3 times and you go back then you have mental problems. Why would you study with someone for 10 years and they clearly have no interest in progressing when you could spend your time elsewhere, like watching paint dry on a wall.
 
Neoluna said:
Let me tell you why. Jehovah created us with free will. The ability to reason correctly, make good decisions, base decisions on fact, etc. If youve been dealing with a brother or sister that has the inability to reach a rational understanding within the available evidence , whats left?
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Yeh but we mainly make bad choices and decisions, especially when we don't know anything about God and the Bible, and even then, we still keep getting stuff wrong, for various reasons. Or maybe it's just me? Sometimes one day I can't understand something and the next day, the penny drops, and all of a sudden, I CAN understand something! 🙃
 
Neoluna said:
I have an experiment for those who think its not a waste of time to continue talking to people who do not have ability to reach a rational understanding within the available evidence . Does your love extend for those who are not Jehovahs Witnesses? I would hope you would say yes and probably so. Go and find a person who is steeped in the belief of the trinity doctrine. I want you to spend as much time as you can convincing them they are wrong. Use all of your love in your heart for that person and explain why they are wrong. How long do you think it would take you? Would you ever be able to convince them? Is that time well spent?
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Slowly, slowly, catch a monkey 🐵 show them a little evidence from the Bible, and let Jehovah/the holy spirit do the rest 😍
 
Neoluna said:
If someone wants to study for 10 years no one is to say you cant. If both party enjoy the meet ups? Is it a social or are you trying to bring someone to the truth? If someone told you not to come back 3 times and you go back then you have mental problems. Why would you study with someone for 10 years and they clearly have no interest in progressing when you could spend your time elsewhere, like watching paint dry on a wall.
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Because 1000's of people have studied for 10yrs before making the truth their own. I know people who studied for 15 to 20yrs. Literally, what is the problem? And yes, it's social too, why not? All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy 😊
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Were that the case as you state, then it denies Jehovah’s provision for repentance, awakening (and which will come for the majority I’m sure), forgiveness and justice. The scripture then must be weighed against those who knowingly pursue the evil course that you speak of. Paul is one such case that may illustrate the point in that murder was in his heart just as avidly as it appears to be in some in governance at watchtower. What has changed?

That such a reasoned state of (wrong) belief is possible in a clear mind and view of one’s faith, was shown when Jesus said at the last supper that “one of you here will betray me”. “It is not I is it?” Was the general response amongst them. Thus in the case of faith, it is not necessarily mental stability that informs the motive, but perception of self. If honest followers of truth can think that they are doing wrong simply by a single statement from Christ, then it requires self examination of a sound mind. And is that not what the lifting of the veil provides when it comes to it? Clarity. Certainty in understanding of the evidence of the course to take in repentance. One needs a sound mind for that.

Ignorance of the application of the word has never been a problem. Faith is an issue from the motivation of the heart. The bible tells us to pray for understanding, and to my knowledge, that has never been denied anyone. In fact, it is awoken in those whose minds are dulled in searching, but still yearn for clarity. Those whom are “satisfied” with having their ears tickled are left as examples to all when they are eventually awoken. Then, perhaps, at that time, the division between the apostles and Judas becomes clear, as was reflected when his position was filled later after he had judged himself. What he did, was done with clarity of mind, as will it be so for those decide for the beast.

If the mind of those seeking to deceive the sheep was ill beyond their capacity to reason, then where is the judgement? It stands to reason then until such time that people are free to examine the truth of the matter, that they should be entreated to think for themselves before hand “if they do not wish to share in her destruction.”
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Greetings Barnaby…. I’m kinda new to the discussion board, although I’ve been interested in Robert’s writings for coming on twenty years.
I just wanted to state that I really enjoyed your manner of conveying the above response to our fellow member. Very professional coupled with respect and a broad pinch of Hope in regards to repentance very well done.
Thank you Brian
 
Neoluna said:
If i may go so far to add one more point here, its this. This goes for anyone who dare ask questions or slightly rebuke Watchtower. You love your dear brothers and sisters so much and you love to see your friends in the organization. Think about this. The very people you sit with and laugh with and love soooo much will see you put to death for questioning or even rebuking Watchtower after youve been branded an apostate and thrown from the Tabernacle. Think about that
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Regardless of how you may presently feel about the Watchtower or about Jehovah's Witnesses, it remains a truth that these ones still constitute "Jehovah’s modern named-people," our spiritual brothers/sisters in the true Christian faith and thus, should continue to be acknowledged, treated and recognized as such.

Moreover, the current transgressed state within the Watchtower and the Organization(including the obstinacy of Jehovah's Witnesses) are all themselves fulfillments of bible prophecy. Therefore, if one truly comprehends why these developments are occurring and what Jehovah and Christ will soon do to rectify this current situation(which will essentially lead to a restoration and the refinement of their people), then there is little reason to harbor resentment towards them.

With that said, there is an appointed time for them to come to understand and accept the truth - that time being, the upcoming Great Tribulation, when God's people are "in terror." -Isaiah 28:19
 
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MyGodisJehovah30 said:
Regardless of how you may presently feel about the Watchtower or about Jehovah's Witnesses, it remains a truth that these ones still constitute "Jehovah’s modern named-people," our spiritual brothers/sisters in the true Christian faith and thus, should continue to be acknowledged, treated and recognized as such.

Moreover, the current transgressed state within the Watchtower and the Organization(including the obstinacy of Jehovah's Witnesses) are all themselves fulfillments of bible prophecy. Thus, if one truly comprehends why these developments are occurring and what Jehovah and Christ will soon do to rectify this current situation(which will essentially lead to a restoration and the refinement of their people), then there is little reason to harbor resentment towards them.
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these forums can go down rabbit holes at times. Im not harboring resentment towards anyone. One of the most respectful men i admire was an elder who has passed on. He was aman of solid faith and you could tell Jehovahs holy spirit was with him. There are many other examples like him. Im simply responding to people on this forum in my own opinion based on my 60 years of dealing with the organization. Why dont you ask a brother or sister there opinion about the organization that has been sexually molested by an elder in the congregation. Your going to get a totally different opinion than someone whos never experienced that. Im simply stating facts so i will state the facts once again from the post you have now responded. The very brothers and sisters you may sit with, eat with, enjoy spending time with will erase you from there life, not even speak or look in your direction if the watchtower deems you an apostate. THATS A FACT. Stop with comments going down a rabbit hole, please. These brothers and sisters will consider you spiritually dead and treat you as such. I understand exactly why these developments are occurring and what Jehovah and Christ will soon do. Im not beyond the scope of reasoning and common sense to understand and figure that out. Ive had people throw me under the bus because ive said Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult. THEY ARE, thats a fact. By pure definition they are a cult. None of these people on this forum know anything about me or my family or what my familys been thru in Jehovahs house so if my delivery is not what you would expect i apologize but ive seen the demonic side in Jehovahs house and lived thru it to tell. None of my family harbor any resentment towards the brothers and sisters and believe me what my 81 year old parents have been put thru, they should. We all left the organization QUIETLY. We simply faded away and await Jehovah and his son to correct matters. There are people on these forums that like to create nonsense .Im not into that and it appears anytime i state facts or my opinion i always end up going down a rabbit hole. Thanks for your response, very nice. Im going to quietly exit these forums and delete my account. Best wishes to you my friend
 
Neoluna said:
these forums can go down rabbit holes at times. Im not harboring resentment towards anyone. One of the most respectful men i admire was an elder who has passed on. He was aman of solid faith and you could tell Jehovahs holy spirit was with him. There are many other examples like him. Im simply responding to people on this forum in my own opinion based on my 60 years of dealing with the organization. Why dont you ask a brother or sister there opinion about the organization that has been sexually molested by an elder in the congregation. Your going to get a totally different opinion than someone whos never experienced that. Im simply stating facts so i will state the facts once again from the post you have now responded. The very brothers and sisters you may sit with, eat with, enjoy spending time with will erase you from there life, not even speak or look in your direction if the watchtower deems you an apostate. THATS A FACT. Stop with comments going down a rabbit hole, please. These brothers and sisters will consider you spiritually dead and treat you as such. I understand exactly why these developments are occurring and what Jehovah and Christ will soon do. Im not beyond the scope of reasoning and common sense to understand and figure that out. Ive had people throw me under the bus because ive said Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult. THEY ARE, thats a fact. By pure definition they are a cult. None of these people on this forum know anything about me or my family or what my familys been thru in Jehovahs house so if my delivery is not what you would expect i apologize but ive seen the demonic side in Jehovahs house and lived thru it to tell. None of my family harbor any resentment towards the brothers and sisters and believe me what my 81 year old parents have been put thru, they should. We all left the organization QUIETLY. We simply faded away and await Jehovah and his son to correct matters. There are people on these forums that like to create nonsense .Im not into that and it appears anytime i state facts or my opinion i always end up going down a rabbit hole. Thanks for your response, very nice. Im going to quietly exit these forums and delete my account. Best wishes to you my friend
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I hope you don’t delete your account and that you stay engaged. Most of us have not walked an inch on your shoes much less a mile. I haven’t said anything in the back and forth on this subject but I agree with both “sides” on differing points. The wounds run deeper than anyone but Jehovah can truly know. I may not literally feel your pain but I want to understand it and give you the leeway that you deserve. Sometimes its important for others to just listen when someone makes a statement.
 
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