PHARMAKIA

[surfergirl]

The brain is said to be the most complex instrument known to man, and if I recall correctly has some 86 billion neurons and from what I see of the world about me, it has been in decline since that fateful day in the garden. The further back in time we look, the greater the dexterity of the human being becomes evident. One only has to look at the complexity of the human body to discover the fabulous support mechanism that serves the brain, and as you mention, that extends out into the natural world for to gather together the elements that feed the body. Yet given perfection, why would Jehovah provide a cure for it? Therefore one might reason that the plant life provides maintenance and that in itself, it provides the support for life to continue in its expression of flesh. That being so, it appears that that, is the essence of its creation. What is truly remarkable is that the flora of the earth, enables the brain to conject and reason on the past, future and present, and to understand and express emotion - issues that have nothing to do with the physical entity! That is why computer technology is called artificial intelligence. They got that right. Just ask Alexa if you need convincing!

I agree - There are numerous 'tiny' miracles that happen when we are able to eat garden fresh plants and herbs, drink clean pure water, and breath the air underneath the trees,on the sea shore or in the mountains. Our brains function properly under the right conditions.
We don't need any pills, alcohol,etc. to function - just what Jehovah provided.
Just by enjoying life, our bodies can be nourished, relieved of toxins and repaired, with no effort on our part. if we have access to these things.
One day we will have all of this, and our brains will like you said - reason on the 'deep things' and we will finally have a deep down peace.
These are hard times just now. But it's nice to know , things won't always be like this.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

First off, I would like to apologize to jgremillion83 for highjacking her post, although I still think this conversation is relevant and fascinating.
The way I see it is that yes, Jehovah used HS to create everything, the spirit and physical realm. One thing is apparent to me, that the physical realm at least is composed of one thing - "aether". Aether has structure and can become anything that it is moved (vibrated) into becoming. The visible portion of the universe is simply aether vibrating at a certain harmonic frequency. The same can be said of light and sound (higher frequencies). Is aether Holy Spirit? No, it's simply untapped potential...but it can become activated (vibrated) by holy spirit. Holy spirit is "intention" resonating in harmony with Jehovah's will (the power of intention). That's why it can take the form of qualities such as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness etc.
When I "intend" to create a meal for my friends, motivated by love, I can carry out the task with "love" and they will feel that "love" when they experience the meal. They will express joy, satisfaction and vitality as a result.
On the flip side, When a criminal "intends" to do harm, driven by greed, his evil "intent" is manifest when he creates poison to inject into innocent humans which produces misery, suffering, decay and death.
Although Jehovah created it with his HS, Aether is neutral. It becomes whatever a living creature intends it to be. Even animals have a form of intention. A bird instictively intends to build a nest to raise its offspring and creates the nest out of aether.
Obviously, Jehovah has placed limits on the manipulative capabilities of all creatures. And I'm sure that spirit creatures have a much deeper understanding of Aether than we do. Angels and Demons were able to create fully functional human bodies for themselves (amazing).
In summary, Aether is the raw potential that makes up the universe but it has structure and is everywhere and everything. There are even artists who have visualized aether (search for the "Dougherty set").
Holy Spirit is active intention vibrating the aether in harmony with Jehovah's will and purpose.
That is my current understanding. Have a nice day.

@Jah-son
Just to let you know, I never thought that you highjacked my post. The reason behind me making this thread to begin with was to find out what others thought about pharmakia. Ever since I came on the forum, only a few times I’d seen it mentioned but never elaborated on.

A lot of your input was very similar to what I’d been researching and learning about. So it’s interesting to know what others might know and have to say.

Although this topic about Aether I’ve briefly read about before, it goes very deep. It goes back to ancient and medieval science and is “also known as the fifth element or quintessence, which is the material that fills the region of the universe beyond the terrestrial sphere.” That is according to Wikipedia.

I’m not even going to pretend I understand any of that although I do recognize the meaning of some of those words.
Your somewhat deep explanation of this is intriguing, so I can understand why it appeals to you. But when you think about it, there’s so much about Jehovah’s creation and the universe that’s fascinating!

It makes me remember the words of David, who as a shepherd no doubt looked up to the heavens at night and perceived the grandeur of the universe and the Creator and said: “When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers, The moon and stars that you have prepared, What is mortal man that you keep him in mind, And a son of man that you take care of him?”

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Yeah I totally get what you're saying cause I experimented with psychedelics. Alot of things that are so called "demonic" are actually not demonic in and of itself. Trust me when I say this cause I know what demonic energy feels like I had been demonically attacked before being born so my intuition and discernment has always been stronger and extra shrap cause I always felt like I had to protect myself. That expierence was basically life threatening I almost died and got tormented. Mabye in the future I would like to tell more about my expierences.

Also a side note, I am not encouraging people to try psychedelics but I am also not dis encouraging it. It is like playing with fire, you could burn down a whole house or make a beautiful campfire with it. But the thing is that we usually can't really control a psychedelic expierence. But for me it has actually brought me closer to god and caused me to be able to heal my trauma. Iknow this is a verry controversial and sensitive topic iknow alot of people are not going to understand cause they either never took psychedelics or only had bad trips or had demonic expierences during their psychedelic expierence so always seek personal discernment from Jehovah, he has definitely shown me things.
There is also research that the activity in a brain thats on lsd is verry similar to a baby brain and I expierenced that myself.

Playing with psychotropic drugs and claiming to benefit from them or to excuse them in anyway is an idiocy too far. It certainly is an encouragement to suggest that the effects can be “beautiful”, because those “effects” are simply an indicator of chemical intervention - in much the same manner as morphine stops pain. Pain and pleasure are a continuum along the same neural pathway and it is quite possible for the two perceptions to cause either effect. What is known as a “bad trip” back in the Sixties. All research into the effects of drugs is flawed for the simple reason that no one as yet understands the function of the brain fully, let alone it’s development - and of which, is not complete until the mid twenties - something you might need to take note of before offering ‘discussion’, no matter how well intended, or poorly judged, in influencing a person’s consideration.

Another issue is that there is no acquired memory in the early years following birth and certainly not before birth. The memory does not retain events until well into independent functioning in life - circa the third year. As research stands at present, there are no grounds to establish any thinking that supports retained experience during fetal development, essentially because the biological mechanisms to experience such are not developed and thus could not possibly retain such. What can be recorded is response, unconsciously, in the foetus to its developmental processes as they connect - hearing is one of them - but there is no evidence of the senses being united in turning sensual stimulation into coordinated thought-out response action, whereas the mechanisms of life, are fully coordinated to support life outside of the womb.

The “research“ into LSD and brain activity in a baby is flawed where it suggests that this is in some way a vortex to enlightenment, - quite the opposite in fact. It simply describes (very, very loosely) the construction and deconstruction of the constituent neural pathways within the brain - to put it bluntly, that LSD disinhibits, distorts, disintegrates and denies constructive reasoning. Rather than play with drugs for the effect on the brain, educate it instead. Demons rarely attack. They seduce. People are drawn out by their own desires, and as the bible illustrates, if one leaves a vacuum in their life, Satan will fill it, leaving the person worse off than before.

 

[Yahthemosthigh]

Playing with psychotropic drugs and claiming to benefit from them or to excuse them in anyway is an idiocy too far. It certainly is an encouragement to suggest that the effects can be “beautiful”, because those “effects” are simply an indicator of chemical intervention - in much the same manner as morphine stops pain. Pain and pleasure are a continuum along the same neural pathway and it is quite possible for the two perceptions to cause either effect. What is known as a “bad trip” back in the Sixties. All research into the effects of drugs is flawed for the simple reason that no one as yet understands the function of the brain fully, let alone it’s development - and of which, is not complete until the mid twenties - something you might need to take note of before offering ‘discussion’, no matter how well intended, or poorly judged, in influencing a person’s consideration.

Another issue is that there is no acquired memory in the early years following birth and certainly not before birth. The memory does not retain events until well into independent functioning in life - circa the third year. As research stands at present, there are no grounds to establish any thinking that supports retained experience during fetal development, essentially because the biological mechanisms to experience such are not developed and thus could not possibly retain such. What can be recorded is response, unconsciously, in the foetus to its developmental processes as they connect - hearing is one of them - but there is no evidence of the senses being united in turning sensual stimulation into coordinated thought-out response action, whereas the mechanisms of life, are fully coordinated to support life outside of the womb.

The “research“ into LSD and brain activity in a baby is flawed where it suggests that this is in some way a vortex to enlightenment, - quite the opposite in fact. It simply describes (very, very loosely) the construction and deconstruction of the constituent neural pathways within the brain - to put it bluntly, that LSD disinhibits, distorts, disintegrates and denies constructive reasoning. Rather than play with drugs for the effect on the brain, educate it instead. Demons rarely attack. They seduce. People are drawn out by their own desires, and as the bible illustrates, if one leaves a vacuum in their life, Satan will fill it, leaving the person worse off than before.

I get what you are saying and I was expecting some type of comment like this. But trust me when I say you can have memories called bad cluster before the age of 3. A important side note is to mention that these bad cluster became active without any substance use and many people expierence these bad clusters when they get triggerd in some sort of way. they start to remember what happend to them. I know people personally who have bad clusters. And remember things that happend before birth. Even though research doesn't doesn't support the evidence yet doesn't mean that your brain can't have certrain memories before the age of 3. Iknow those memories of me are true and most people who have alot of active bad clusters never take any compounds.

I really respect this view and I know your brain isn't fully developed in your 20s. So for the "drugg" part Iknow it was risky to post but still wanted to be honest. I am also verry aware if the fact demons seduce and satan represent himself as the angle of light. But he can really spiritually attack us to and that is happening to many more people then you would ever think. I also made it very clear that it was my own personal expierence I only did "claim" the part of that the brain activity could be similar to that of baby. But that indeed could be poorly researched. I could never proof anyone what my expierences were like I could only tell it from my perspective and let someone read it through their perspective. Also another side note I wanted to make it clear that this is not me saying that its justified just because its found in nature cause other deathly and harmful substances are found in nature too. But alot of psychedelics including lsd are found in nature unlike some people know of or believe. lsd is semi-synthetic. I actually did really research alot and watched alot of documentaries about it. But I don't wanna bring people on the wrong path either so I might delete it for that purpose after posting this comment. I thought I tread the waters to see if anyone had some similar expierences. No bad was ever intended from me.

 

[Carl]

I get what you are saying and I was expecting some type of comment like this. But trust me when I say you can have memories called bad cluster before the age of 3. A important side note is to mention that these bad cluster became active without any substance use and many people expierence these bad clusters when they get triggerd in some sort of way. they start to remember what happend to them. I know people personally who have bad clusters. And remember things that happend before birth. Even though research doesn't doesn't support the evidence yet doesn't mean that your brain can't have certrain memories before the age of 3. Iknow those memories of me are true and most people who have alot of active bad clusters never take any compounds.

I really respect this view and I know your brain isn't fully developed in your 20s. So for the "drugg" part Iknow it was risky to post but still wanted to be honest. I am also verry aware if the fact demons seduce and satan represent himself as the angle of light. But he can really spiritually attack us to and that is happening to many more people then you would ever think. I also made it very clear that it was my own personal expierence I only did "claim" the part of that the brain activity could be similar to that of baby. But that indeed could be poorly researched. I could never proof anyone what my expierences were like I could only tell it from my perspective and let someone read it through their perspective. Also another side note I wanted to make it clear that this is not me saying that its justified just because its found in nature cause other deathly and harmful substances are found in nature too. But alot of psychedelics including lsd are found in nature unlike some people know of or believe. lsd is semi-synthetic. I actually did really research alot and watched alot of documentaries about it. But I don't wanna bring people on the wrong path either so I might delete it for that purpose after posting this comment. I thought I tread the waters to see if anyone had some similar expierences. No bad was ever intended from me.

There is evidence that mico dosing Psilocybin… the active ingredient in Magic Mushrooms helps with a variety of brain issues. Sadly, like THC, Psilocybin has been abused. Cocaine is a medicine, as is morphine and alcohol, as Paul demonstrated to Timothy. The problem is abuse, and misuse. No Christian should be using this drug without medical supervision as part of a limited treatment program.

As for you being attacked in the womb… Jehovah knows us in the womb, so maybe familial demons try to insert an influence pre-birth? I think angels protect the unborn, so I would guess that any demonic influence pre-birth wouldn’t be constant, maybe they sneak through once or twice?

 

[Yahthemosthigh]

There is evidence that mico dosing Psilocybin… the active ingredient in Magic Mushrooms helps with a variety of brain issues. Sadly, like THC, Psilocybin has been abused. Cocaine is a medicine, as is morphine and alcohol, as Paul demonstrated to Timothy. The problem is abuse, and misuse. No Christian should be using this drug without medical supervision as part of a limited treatment program.

As for you being attacked in the womb… Jehovah knows us in the womb, so maybe familial demons try to insert an influence pre-birth? I think angels protect the unborn, so I would guess that any demonic influence pre-birth wouldn’t be constant, maybe they sneak through once or twice?

substances always get abused sadly enough. I microdose psilocybin every now and then and it has helpt me even get out of bed in the morning at times my anxiety and depression is so bad and I am litterally shaking from stress. I Want to expand a bit on what happend with me before birth cause that is one of the main reasons we don't go to the kingdom hall as family anymore. For now I will keep it at this and think about the right words to put together.

 

[Carl]

substances always get abused sadly enough. I microdose psilocybin every now and then and it has helpt me even get out of bed in the morning at times my anxiety and depression is so bad and I am litterally shaking from stress. I Want to expand a bit on what happend with me before birth cause that is one of the main reasons we don't go to the kingdom hall as family anymore. For now I will keep it at this and think about the right words to put together.

I would advise supplicating to Jehovah for an answer, and then try to forget until he responds. You could drive yourself mad trying to figure out something from the spiritual plane.

 

[Yahthemosthigh]

I would advise supplicating to Jehovah for an answer, and then try to forget until he responds. You could drive yourself mad trying to figure out something from the spiritual plane.

He did gave me answers. I am actually have been doing so much better. Thanks

 

[Yahthemosthigh]

I would advise supplicating to Jehovah for an answer, and then try to forget until he responds. You could drive yourself mad trying to figure out something from the spiritual plane.

He has infact responded to me multiple times But I did not give enough details and information about my situation yet for you all to know what happened. I am being careful with my words.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

There is evidence that mico dosing Psilocybin… the active ingredient in Magic Mushrooms helps with a variety of brain issues. Sadly, like THC, Psilocybin has been abused. Cocaine is a medicine, as is morphine and alcohol, as Paul demonstrated to Timothy. The problem is abuse, and misuse. No Christian should be using this drug without medical supervision as part of a limited treatment program.

As for you being attacked in the womb… Jehovah knows us in the womb, so maybe familial demons try to insert an influence pre-birth? I think angels protect the unborn, so I would guess that any demonic influence pre-birth wouldn’t be constant, maybe they sneak through once or twice?

Without wishing to sound presumptuous, I would imagine that “knowing” a child in the womb as Jehovah says, is referring to His own creative achievement. Surely the life that rises from procreation is a life that is given by Jehovah that originated with Adam. When one thinks of the utterly miraculous way in which each cell is designed to its specific location in the body, is it possible to assume that Jehovah would permit anything to interfere with that, or skew it’s outcome? The bible is quite explicit as to Jehovah’s protective mind concerning the vulnerable child, the widow; things that are sacred to His promise and creative purpose. This is surely but one reason why the abuse of the vulnerable is mentioned so assertively in the scripture. Would Jehovah “allow” such an assault within the womb where no one can help? If that were the case, would anyone be born with a balanced mind and a whole body? The means of expression is the construct of the body - even the heart contains brain-like cells. The interaction between body and brain is what completes the expression of life and its meaning of existence. Not only that, but where is Satan’s advantage in destroying a life that has no choice? The lie was based on the assumption that no man would serve Jehovah by choice - quite simply, if there is no choice there is no context or contest. If Satan was going to attack a child in the womb, then the most destructive way would be through its mother - the means of attack there are endless - abortion et alia.

 

[Yahthemosthigh]

Without wishing to sound presumptuous, I would imagine that “knowing” a child in the womb as Jehovah says, is referring to His own creative achievement. Surely the life that rises from procreation is a life that is given by Jehovah that originated with Adam. When one thinks of the utterly miraculous way in which each cell is designed to its specific location in the body, is it possible to assume that Jehovah would permit anything to interfere with that, or skew it’s outcome? The bible is quite explicit as to Jehovah’s protective mind concerning the vulnerable child, the widow; things that are sacred to His promise and creative purpose. This is surely but one reason why the abuse of the vulnerable is mentioned so assertively in the scripture. Would Jehovah “allow” such an assault within the womb where no one can help? If that were the case, would anyone be born with a balanced mind and a whole body? The means of expression is the construct of the body - even the heart contains brain-like cells. The interaction between body and brain is what completes the expression of life and its meaning of existence. Not only that, but where is Satan’s advantage in destroying a life that has no choice? The lie was based on the assumption that no man would serve Jehovah by choice - quite simply, if there is no choice there is no context or contest. If Satan was going to attack a child in the womb, then the most destructive way would be through its mother - the means of attack there are endless - abortion et alia.

Without wishing to sound presumptuous, I would imagine that “knowing” a child in the womb as Jehovah says, is referring to His own creative achievement. Surely the life that rises from procreation is a life that is given by Jehovah that originated with Adam. When one thinks of the utterly miraculous way in which each cell is designed to its specific location in the body, is it possible to assume that Jehovah would permit anything to interfere with that, or skew it’s outcome? The bible is quite explicit as to Jehovah’s protective mind concerning the vulnerable child, the widow; things that are sacred to His promise and creative purpose. This is surely but one reason why the abuse of the vulnerable is mentioned so assertively in the scripture. Would Jehovah “allow” such an assault within the womb where no one can help? If that were the case, would anyone be born with a balanced mind and a whole body? The means of expression is the construct of the body - even the heart contains brain-like cells. The interaction between body and brain is what completes the expression of life and its meaning of existence. Not only that, but where is Satan’s advantage in destroying a life that has no choice? The lie was based on the assumption that no man would serve Jehovah by choice - quite simply, if there is no choice there is no context or contest. If Satan was going to attack a child in the womb, then the most destructive way would be through its mother - the means of attack there are endless - abortion et alia.

I have not giving any details about my story so I get those assumptions. like I said I will expand on this story but I wanna take my time with writing it the best I can.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I have not giving any details about my story so I get those assumptions. like I said I will expand on this story but I wanna take my time with writing it the best I can.

An assumption!? If the science is wrong, please show me where and I’ll be happy to concede the point. In the interim, I look forward to your irrefutable and fact based dialogue on pre-natal demonic possession. Assumption indeed! I would not waste my time and there is a vast difference between researched theoretical probability and assumption. While I’m waiting, I am happy to give you a couple of my (non-assumptive and factual) sources of reference that may give you a more vivid aspect of pre-natel development and the formation of concepts in expressive meanings and capabilities of the physical body.
Maurice Merleau-Ponty Corporeality and its Fates in History (Falk) (revised 1980’s). JStore - . You have to pay to read unless you already subscribe (donate) to Jstore. It’s well worth the money though. You want the chapter on the “Nature of perception .

The concept is hardly new. Aristotle and Plato both had much to say on the same subject. However Pierre Dionis in his book on midwifery 1719, does quite an interesting chapter on conception and the growth of the child within the womb. Somewhat graphic, but it reflects a far greater insight into the “ethereal” (what we know of today as fact insofar as creation/science confirm) development of the foetus in terms spiritual.

 

[Yahthemosthigh]

I have not giving any details about my story so I get those assumptions. like I said I will expand on this story but I wanna take my time with writing it the best I can.

Without wishing to sound presumptuous, I would imagine that “knowing” a child in the womb as Jehovah says, is referring to His own creative achievement. Surely the life that rises from procreation is a life that is given by Jehovah that originated with Adam. When one thinks of the utterly miraculous way in which each cell is designed to its specific location in the body, is it possible to assume that Jehovah would permit anything to interfere with that, or skew it’s outcome? The bible is quite explicit as to Jehovah’s protective mind concerning the vulnerable child, the widow; things that are sacred to His promise and creative purpose. This is surely but one reason why the abuse of the vulnerable is mentioned so assertively in the scripture. Would Jehovah “allow” such an assault within the womb where no one can help? If that were the case, would anyone be born with a balanced mind and a whole body? The means of expression is the construct of the body - even the heart contains brain-like cells. The interaction between body and brain is what completes the expression of life and its meaning of existence. Not only that, but where is Satan’s advantage in destroying a life that has no choice? The lie was based on the assumption that no man would serve Jehovah by choice - quite simply, if there is no choice there is no context or contest. If Satan was going to attack a child in the womb, then the most destructive way would be through its mother - the means of attack there are endless - abortion et alia.

An assumption!? If the science is wrong, please show me where and I’ll be happy to concede the point. In the interim, I look forward to your irrefutable and fact based dialogue on pre-natal demonic possession. Assumption indeed! I would not waste my time and there is a vast difference between researched theoretical probability and assumption. While I’m waiting, I am happy to give you a couple of my (non-assumptive and factual) sources of reference that may give you a more vivid aspect of pre-natel development and the formation of concepts in expressive meanings and capabilities of the physical body.
Maurice Merleau-Ponty Corporeality and its Fates in History (Falk) (revised 1980’s). JStore - . You have to pay to read unless you already subscribe (donate) to Jstore. It’s well worth the money though. You want the chapter on the “Nature of perception .

The concept is hardly new. Aristotle and Plato both had much to say on the same subject. However Pierre Dionis in his book on midwifery 1719, does quite an interesting chapter on conception and the growth of the child within the womb. Somewhat graphic, but it reflects a far greater insight into the “ethereal” (what we know of today as fact insofar as creation/science confirm) development of the foetus in terms

With all respect it put me a little out off balance that you want a irrefutable scientifically proved answers to my claim I was demonically attack in the womb. I obviously can't proof any signs of abuse just like almost any other victim of either sexual abuse or satanic ritual abuse could provide.


I can now somewhat relate to J.W. children who claim to be abused and must come up with a second witness.


However I can explain that my mother who is a satanic ritual abuse survivor was attacked by demons while being pregnant with me.

 

[Carl]

Without wishing to sound presumptuous, I would imagine that “knowing” a child in the womb as Jehovah says, is referring to His own creative achievement. Surely the life that rises from procreation is a life that is given by Jehovah that originated with Adam. When one thinks of the utterly miraculous way in which each cell is designed to its specific location in the body, is it possible to assume that Jehovah would permit anything to interfere with that, or skew it’s outcome? The bible is quite explicit as to Jehovah’s protective mind concerning the vulnerable child, the widow; things that are sacred to His promise and creative purpose. This is surely but one reason why the abuse of the vulnerable is mentioned so assertively in the scripture. Would Jehovah “allow” such an assault within the womb where no one can help? If that were the case, would anyone be born with a balanced mind and a whole body? The means of expression is the construct of the body - even the heart contains brain-like cells. The interaction between body and brain is what completes the expression of life and its meaning of existence. Not only that, but where is Satan’s advantage in destroying a life that has no choice? The lie was based on the assumption that no man would serve Jehovah by choice - quite simply, if there is no choice there is no context or contest. If Satan was going to attack a child in the womb, then the most destructive way would be through its mother - the means of attack there are endless - abortion et alia.

There are countless of examples of Jehovah allowing unfairness to the unborn and small children... fetal alcohol syndrome, trauma from violence and cerebral palsy come to mind immediately. Biblical accounts showed how demons caused all kinds of maladies on the innocent, so I wouldn’t presume to know whether a demonic attack on the unborn is impossible. Jehovah told us to protect the widows and orphans, but he allows all kinds of evil to befall them.

 

[Carl]

With all respect it put me a little out off balance that you want a irrefutable scientifically proved answers to my claim I was demonically attack in the womb. I obviously can't proof any signs of abuse just like almost any other victim of either sexual abuse or satanic ritual abuse could provide.


I can now somewhat relate to J.W. children who claim to be abused and must come up with a second witness.


However I can explain that my mother who is a satanic ritual abuse survivor was attacked by demons while being pregnant with me.

I’m sorry to hear about your story. I’ve heard of the torment SRA victims endure. I never assumed you claimed to be possessed, but you could have been “marked” by a spirit. I’ve watched enough testimonies of SRA victims to know what a marked victim endures. What’s the difference between SRA on a newborn baby and one in the womb?

 

[DavidCJ]

Apparently his son had depression (most likely due to being abused by another member of the congregation) & was on antidepressants. After awhile the meds messed with his system & he had to go on other medication & that led him onto the opiates. From there it was downhill & he was disfellowshipped.

It's really stupid. They burden nurses with the bureaucracy so they spend all the time with paperwork as if they are secretaries with PhDs. Simple things such as your name already written on the top of the paper that you are supposed to write your name down.

Rather than burdening everyone with medication that has questionable benefits for the most part, they should just be human and be friends and talk with the patients. There was a pamphlet(in the hospital I stayed in) that talked about group walks outside and when I asked the nurse said they have no time for that anymore. Something like that would be far more beneficial.

Most of depression likely stems from loneliness, and the way your body/mind tries to deal with it.

I used to watch a show called Dr. Becker, which is about a family doctor who is rather brilliant. In one episode, there's this guy that's on half a dozen pills and he has various minor issues. Becker replaces 6 or 7 pills with just one, which eliminates most of his other issues and still effectively deals with the primary illness. I think for the most part, the damage is caused by things like greed and incompetence. Many doctors don't have the mental capacity to be anything greater than the minimum, which is actually the definition of average people if you think about it. Exceptional ones exist, but again those are few.

@Nomex Degradation in the lifespan is theorized to have been the increased radiation after the water being part of the atmosphere has come down during Noah's Flood. Not only that, the water would have caused the climate to be very temperate, just like the description of dinosaur ages by the scientists.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

With all respect it put me a little out off balance that you want a irrefutable scientifically proved answers to my claim I was demonically attack in the womb. I obviously can't proof any signs of abuse just like almost any other victim of either sexual abuse or satanic ritual abuse could provide.


I can now somewhat relate to J.W. children who claim to be abused and must come up with a second witness.


However I can explain that my mother who is a satanic ritual abuse survivor was attacked by demons while being pregnant with me.

This is the issue as you state it. First, it has nothing to do with the need of a second witness as in child abuse. That is an unreasoned comparison borrowed from a very real and distressing event, to support a sense of being a victim - in this case of demonic possession. How you can equate the two to justify your argument is breathtaking, and is a different matter entirely and is a psychological issue.

In this case, the witness - if you wish to use that term - is the science of the growth and formation of the body. Satanic possession is real. I do not doubt that because the bible gives examples and given the historical issues of the scriptures are quite reasonable. I would imagine a large percentage of folks here could tell the same story. I certainly have seen and felt the same at times. But why anyone would wish to bring to the site demonic possession stories prior to birth and plan to do so in detail that cannot possibly be asserted without demonic detail and an explanation of how such can be experienced by a foetus undergoing formation and largely incapable of assimilation of fact and reason, I find rather alarming. Does a chicken in an egg know what a fox is? Likewise the need to argue the issue of discuss the story of it, to write it and present it, makes me at least wonder why, and given the facts as you relate it, can only bring to the table discussion of satanic issues that serve no purpose and cannot be resolved. So why do it? Motive. That’s my thinking.

The forum is a discussion platform for discovery and assimilation of Truth. It is a sanctuary for many seeking Jehovah whilst He still may be found. Yes, there is room for banter and jokes, appalling choices in music, the eccentricities that we all have and so on ad infinitum, and ad nauseam too at times, but that is the way of things and good too. But if demonism and possession is to become a topic for discussion, then I’m out of here. I’ve seen it, hate it in all its forms, do not wish to read about it and have no room for even contemplating it. I’m trying to get out of this world, not dive deeper into it.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

There are countless of examples of Jehovah allowing unfairness to the unborn and small children... fetal alcohol syndrome, trauma from violence and cerebral palsy come to mind immediately. Biblical accounts showed how demons caused all kinds of maladies on the innocent, so I wouldn’t presume to know whether a demonic attack on the unborn is impossible. Jehovah told us to protect the widows and orphans, but he allows all kinds of evil to befall them.

I am not suggesting otherwise. It is an obvious fact, taken for granted that a pregnant woman can damage her child through her behaviours and through any illness she may have. Experiencing demonic possession or inheriting it’s influence as a foetus is a different matter. If it could be done, are we to believe it would not the primary issue? I made the point that spiritually speaking, the issue is one of choice. If a person does not have choice and is possessed, what does that make of the choice? It’s a simple enough question. Is it not the fact that possession hijacks the body and controls it? Where then does the responsibility for actions rest?

 

[Carl]

I made the point that spiritually speaking, the issue is one of choice. If a person does not have choice and is possessed, what does that make of the choice?

With all due respect, are you claiming all demonic possessions are by choice or unclean/sinful actions? I don't agree. Mark 7:25 "Immediately, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him and came and fell down at his feet." What could this young girl have done to deserve this? I submit it was probably the fault of her parents.

I love your contribution to this forum and respect you greatly. Your ability to bring levity to tense debates is most welcome, and your wisdom very much appreciated. I look forward to meeting you someday, and I would hate to see you leave. I don't think you're wrong to question the motives of a new member describing demonic possession. I approach all new member with an assumption they're telling the truth, and I'll admit I've been wrong in the past. If someone comes here with anterior motives, it will come out sooner or later. Let's assume the new member is in pain and reaching out for help/support/Christian fellowship. What does it say about us if we call her a liar? I'm not saying you are, but from my vantage point it does appear that you don't believe her.

I agree with you about avoiding certain topics. I don't want this forum devolving into a demonic possession discussion board. That said, we do know it happens, and with the imminent return of Christ, it may happen even more. As Jehovah's people, we should be prepared to offer help and guidance if other victims come here seeking solid spiritual food. We certainly don't want anyone who is truly seeking the truth to feel unwelcome. But as you wisely said, we also don't need to get into the "deeper things of Satan." It's a delicate balance for sure.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

With all due respect, are you claiming all demonic possessions are by choice or unclean/sinful actions? I don't agree. Mark 7:25 "Immediately, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him and came and fell down at his feet." What could this young girl have done to deserve this? I submit it was probably the fault of her parents.

I love your contribution to this forum and respect you greatly. Your ability to bring levity to tense debates is most welcome, and your wisdom very much appreciated. I look forward to meeting you someday, and I would hate to see you leave. I don't think you're wrong to question the motives of a new member describing demonic possession. I approach all new member with an assumption they're telling the truth, and I'll admit I've been wrong in the past. If someone comes here with anterior motives, it will come out sooner or later. Let's assume the new member is in pain and reaching out for help/support/Christian fellowship. What does it say about us if we call her a liar? I'm not saying you are, but from my vantage point it does appear that you don't believe her.

I agree with you about avoiding certain topics. I don't want this forum devolving into a demonic possession discussion board. That said, we do know it happens, and with the imminent return of Christ, it may happen even more. As Jehovah's people, we should be prepared to offer help and guidance if other victims come here seeking solid spiritual food. We certainly don't want anyone who is truly seeking the truth to feel unwelcome. But as you wisely said, we also don't need to get into the "deeper things of Satan." It's a delicate balance for sure.

Carl, I don’t know how you read that into my comment. No of course demonic possession is not by choice - unless it is of course. But as you say - maybe it had something to do with the parent. Judas allowed satan to enter in to him did he not, by his very decision to betray Christ. That in itself is open to debate if we study the language used. That “Satan entered in….” , that could refer to Judas giving in to the influence of Satan, his decision, greed, rather than an actual possession. The poetry of prose in the bible is often ambiguous, would you not agree? I would imagine that it can be read both ways. But I’m not arguing that issue - I was not there, but we are “drawn out by our own desires” are we not? There is a thin deciding line between following our own inclination and allowing ourselves to become obsessed with evil doing and leaving the way open for true possession which is rare enough. The whole world is evil.

My issue with the debate on possession within the womb is simply one of reason. We all know basic details about foetal formation, childhood amnesia, possession, and our own intent. We also have our ability to reason on the scripture and the issues whereby we succumb to evil or resist it. It is simply not possible to argue that possession is an issue in the womb if that is what this discussion is leading to. Brain formation and childhood amnesia is what it is, and is there for a reason. I have long discussed the issue with psychiatrists in cases of abuse, and the issues of abuse are overwhelmingly clear during the developmental stage. But, they occur after birth. Can one even begin to imagine the consequences of memory formation in a new-born infant. The process of childhood development is a miracle of order and relevance in the learning process of an infant. This is why abuse really can murder the mental development of a child.

So, what is my gripe on this matter? If influence cannot be from one angle, then it is from another. Certainly young people are just that, young people, and deserve respect in their seeking Jehovah. I applaud it. But a self introduction that introduces satanic interference in the womb and the supporting inferences offered in the description of familial possession - just as a starter - that’s a worry and I asked why but received no answer. Hence, I will not hang around for it to develop if that is the way it’s going to go - to wait “until she can get the story together, get it right?” Why would that be? So that it’s not challenged? Presented as fact? Unarguable? What does it advertise? Robert mentioned an attack from Satan some years back. He wouldn’t discuss it. No one asked him to either. That’s the way it should be. Do not open the door, My view entirely. If we are to believe that faith in Jehovah is a protection from evil, then why bring evil to the table, especially when the reasoning behind it is so easily refuted? Possession means just that - It comes in, takes over, controls. Destroys. I am not looking to demonise anyone, (sorry) simply that I question the need to gratuitously offer it up for discussion on this site from the very outset. If I have misjudged the situation, that’s fine, but I remain unconvinced at present.