Sabotage or Coincident?

[Ms_ladyblue]

The Correct Answer Part 2​

So What are the Wild beasts of the earth?
Again we cannot know for sure but I thought there were some really intuitive thoughts posted to this which we have all been pondering.

Ms_ladyblue linked sorcery translated Pharmakia (AKA Drugs) which I thought was very insightful

StillA_Worshiper Of Jah linked the Governments of the world which are also described in scripture as beasts and went on to spell it out as it is…. By poisoning our environment and food source, pharmakia, limiting food production, inflating the cost of living, legalising and promoting abortion, preventing/banning anything that is good for us, promoting hatred and causing divisions. Also, perverting minds, grooming children and sexually mutilating them, making it economically unfeasible to have children and other things they are doing to reduce fertility.

Who could argue against any of that?

MickHewitt connected Titus 1:12 where it says…… Creʹtans are always liars, injurious wild beasts,…..
So I do not think we would get into trouble if we concluded that Death would be caused by Satanic lies and deceit and trickery by the Governments and Nations.

Patricia connected the dots and expressed that it is war, wild beasts, food shortages, inflation etc that leads to disease and other pestilences.

Evw was the first to spot that ‘deadly plague’ was not in the original Greek manuscripts.

Now if we put all of those observations together what do we see? Was there a global pandemic boogie man a deadly corona virus AKA deadly plague? Absolutely not. As has been pointed out by many in other posts viruses are an unsubstantiated lie they have never been proven to exist, and by definition are part of evolutionary theory. Via the same wild beast & lies, have the Governmental authorities not injected a lethal poison into untold billions? Absolutely. Boy oh boy that Pale horse (Sickly Greenish Yellow -KI) is getting more sickly looking by the minute isn’t it.

The WT NWT committee knowingly and lying with no authority added ‘deadly plague' to back up their fraudulent 1914 false pa·rou·siʹa.
Notice this fraudulent claim by the WT on this very question we posed here.
The Pale Horse Rides On
THE prophet John was inspired by God to foretell a time when disease epidemics would run rampant throughout the earth like a charging pale horse ridden by death. (Revelation 6:8)

But what about the Spanish flue of 1919-1920 I hear you ask? It is reported to have infected 500 million and deaths estimated between 17-50 million. Drum roll please…….lies lies and more lies.

Perhaps time permitting I will write another post relating to the total fraud of the Spanish flue demonstrating that the riddle I posed earlier in this discussion group is undoubtedly true.
‘In NWT pages, a prophecy's sway, something added, in a sinister display.
In the interim here is an excellent synopsis by Doctor Sam Baily I highly recommend the 15 minutes or so to watch it.

But it is worth noting that Judge Rutherford as he liked to be called and the early bible students as they were known, during the 3rd wave of the so called Spanish flue (Yes they invented waves then also) happily ignored all the nonsense of mask wearing social distancing and huddled together for cedar point general convention commencing 1st Sep 1919

View attachment 4703

A few final thoughts

It must be recognised that it is an assumption to also assume that the riders are indeed ‘Horse Men’ and that the troubles are automatically manmade. My own conclusion like most is that they are, however the scriptures do not say that the riders are indeed ‘Men’ The scriptures simply identify them as ‘Riders.’
Ask yourself this.
Is the first rider on the white horse a ‘Man’?
It seems very much it may be the immortal spirit creature we used to know as the man Jesus Christ, but he is not a man any more is he? Yet for some reason this is not spelt out for us in scripter so naturally Jehovah wants us to think deeply about who the rider may be and ponder on it with the aid of his holy spirit.

Likewise it is the Lamb alone who we can absolutely state is our Lord Jesus who has the authority to open the 7 seals. Have you ever pondered then why the first living creature that was like a lion (Rev 4:7) and fell down before Jesus the Lamb (Rev4:8) and loudly in heaven declared by singing just who the Lamb is (Rev 5:11,12) along with every other living thing in the heavenly realm, does not declare that the rider of the first horse is indeed the lamb who has just opened the seal???

Likewise in the case of all 4 riders they are matched in turn with the four living creatures, Rev 4:7
The first living creature was like a lion, (Introduces the rider of the white horse)
the second living creature was like a young bull, (Introduces the rider of the fiery-colored horse)
the third living creature had a face like a man’s, (Introduces the rider of the black horse)
the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle (Introduces the rider of the pale horse)

Are these just throw away details? What do yo think?

Since all the living creatures with with a voices like thunder says ‘Come’ are clearly not men, then what makes us so sure the ‘Rider’ of the first horse is a man or any of them for that matter? Again what do you think?
The original Greek just says ‘the One’ So we We absolutely know there is just one rider to each horse but we can only ponder who or what the riders are?? All to often our previous conditioning gets in the way of our reasoning clearly on matters.

In the picture of the horsemen below what do you notice has been added to the rider of the white horse? Look Closely?

View attachment 4704


Look carefully.
Consider this. Where in Rev6:2 does the rider have a cape like superman?? This is no less guilty than the addition of the word ‘deadly plague' Who gave WT art department the authority to add a cape to the rider. In all their publications of recent years they have put a cape on our Lord Jesus Christ yet nowhere in scripture is Jesus depicted as wearing a cape. Hence to the oblivious viewer the first horseman must be Jesus by this alone. Please Watch this interview with Allan Boyle on the research that has to be done to go into the art work……Oh how far they have fallen from his example!!

View attachment 4705

View attachment 4706

I ask myself for what reason do known liars take it upon them selves to dress Our Lord Jesus Christ in a manner that is clearly not in the scriptures? Perhaps we should allow the scripters talk?
'For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.25 Look! I have forewarned you' (Matt 24 : 24,25)
'For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones.23 You, then, watch out. I have told you all things beforehand.' (Mark 13:22,23)

Some things are hidden in plane sight are they not?

Conclusion

So what was the correct answer to the original question
How does the pale horse and it's rider cause Death?
Correct answer
The horse is sick but from the scripture we do not know what caused the sickness. But thanks to our Heavenly Father and our Lord Jesus Christ that they gave us enough clues to see through the lies and help us discern with the aid of Holy Spirit what is and is not responsible for the death ‘over the forth part of the earth’

It is also apparent that there is so much we do not know until the time that our heavenly father through his beloved son decides to reveal it to us. For a certainty it does not come through a bunch of self appointed men who have difficulty bending down to tie their own spiritual shoe laces.

Wow! Yes I also thank you Dean for all the thorough research you’ve put into this to help sharpen our “spiritual” senses.
Still, there is a lot to be said about the pale horse and it’s rider that causes death.
A couple of years ago I came to the conclusion that all, if not most of the signs that Jesus gave as well as horse and it’s riders referred to man made, ie ”wars, food shortages, earthquakes , pestilences.“

In my research I also came across Dr Sam Bailey as well as a few other like minded doctors who no longer practice mainstream medicine. But, I might add there’s another layer to this that you need to delve into. ( which you may have already considered) And no doubt if you’ve checked out researcher, Jeff Green’s video then you know I’m referring to. It’s worth taking less than an hour to watch and listen to. I was amazed and could see that it makes so much sense because it‘s so in line with how Jehovah created us and all other living things.

 

[StillA_WorshiperOfJah]

But what about the Spanish flue of 1919-1920 I hear you ask? It is reported to have infected 500 million and deaths estimated between 17-50 million. Drum roll please…….lies lies and more lies.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

It sure is very telling SAWOJ. Thanks for sharing. I never learned about the Spanish Flu in school neither nor did my grandparents ever talk about it although they would tell us stories about things that went on when they were growing up…you know the way stories are passed down from one generation to another. My dad was a history buff and talked about many outstanding historical events but I never heard about the Spanish flu.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

I am wondering if you offered your company some cake and Sanka? Great avatar photo btw!

Nah, no cake or Sanka…she only wanted water.
Btw thanks for the compliment Med.

 

[MickHewitt]

How important it is to read scripture; Why do I say? Well years back while taking Jehovah up on His offer @ Isa43:26 'Let us bring our case against each other' I thoroughly did! I did not understand because I believed in the organisation being blessed in which it is.....I blamed Jehovah for allowing it's sins: Until reading of the patriarchs such as Reuben who defiled his fathers concubine: The sons of Israel murdered a whole band of Canaanites who had made a covenant to marry Dinah thier sister and daughter of Jacob and Leah. The list of Israel's sins is endless yet was neccessary to my understanding. Just because Jehovah blessed and designated certain individuals and tribes worthy of representing Him it did not mean that they were righteous in themselves. When it comes down to it we are individually accountable. We cannot put trust in organisations or other individuals for our salvation. I am grateful for the time that has allowed me to learn these things....

How faithful Jehovah is: The reason Daniel prayed out his window eachday while in captivity was because of Solomon's inaugeration prayer of the temple: Anyone in captivity who prays towards this temple please hear them Jehovah. Solomon may have forgotten but Jehovah never does! What temple do we have to pray towards? None other than Christ! Just think the price Jehovah payed for us with His Son's blood means as long as we have faith; No one on earth is above our pay grade! Perhaps the best reference to our daily 'Examining scriptures' "Mary took advantage to sit close to her Lord" Like Mary we Rather than cosying up to the gb sit closer to Christ!

 

[Dean]

Wow! Yes I also thank you Dean for all the thorough research you’ve put into this to help sharpen our “spiritual” senses.
Still, there is a lot to be said about the pale horse and it’s rider that causes death.
A couple of years ago I came to the conclusion that all, if not most of the signs that Jesus gave as well as horse and it’s riders referred to man made, ie ”wars, food shortages, earthquakes , pestilences.“

In my research I also came across Dr Sam Bailey as well as a few other like minded doctors who no longer practice mainstream medicine. But, I might add there’s another layer to this that you need to delve into. ( which you may have already considered) And no doubt if you’ve checked out researcher, Jeff Green’s video then you know I’m referring to. It’s worth taking less than an hour to watch and listen to. I was amazed and could see that it makes so much sense because it‘s so in line with how Jehovah made us and all other living things.

Yep I concur, And that is also the conclusion I came up with. Who would have thought Man even has the power to manufacture earthquakes!

 

[MickHewitt]

Malthusian ideology has been the heart of all genocides since the Irish famine in the 1850's. Malthus was the high priest of depopulation writing in his book 1799 giving instructions to British East India Company economists on how to enact genocide. He was proven wrong on his theory that the world could not exceed 1 billion. Yet it was used by Darwin to give weight to his evolution theory. Britain was a Christian based society and that's why it has took two hundred years to take root with alot of failed fascist attempts to subject the whole world to it's power which is really Satanic. The high priests of this eugenicist agenda who today conduct economics, science, education and media maintain the script. Those who go beyond it face being charged with made up crimes, denied bank accounts and some like Dr Kelly who spoke out against Weapons of mass distruction, end up dead! In a symbolic sense any of us who have spoken out against the governing body have been killed spiritually, cut off from home and offspring. Christ said to look out for signs in the sun, moon and stars, perhaps part of this prophecy are the cabal's use of technology to paint visions in the sky like Plato's shadows on the cave wall to create fear of aliens and coerce subjection? It's encouraging to see many eyes looking in on the Watchman site. I over the years have learned many things that revived me spiritually and gave me confidence in the imminent return of Christ. I cannot see it lasting much longer.

Talking of failed attempts of Cabal for world domination; Revealed documents pertaining to close of WW2 show plans for the annihilation of 66 Soviet cities using 204 atomic bombs! https://www.globalresearch.ca/wipe-...-planned-prior-to-end-of-world-war-ii/5616601 Were the August 1945 Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks used by the Pentagon to evaluate the viability of a much larger attack on the Soviet Union consisting of more than 204 atomic bombs? Chinese delegates at present UN security council today say 'We are at a crossroads in the history of humanity': No kidding! How blessed we are to be aware of this before such diplomatic nobility. Slowly America is awakening to the British agenda to take over the U.S.A: Just listening to a dark horse independant running for office of President who quoted Cecil Rhodes "Why should we not form a secret society for the furtherance of the British Empire and retaking of America!" Pointing to the enablement of 'Round Table' groups, the CFR connection to Chatham House etc. Once this catches fire this truth of America not in control of it's own foreign policy a mere puppet of the British Empire it will precipitate civil war?

 

[MickHewitt]

Talking of failed attempts of Cabal for world domination; Revealed documents pertaining to close of WW2 show plans for the annihilation of 66 Soviet cities using 204 atomic bombs! https://www.globalresearch.ca/wipe-...-planned-prior-to-end-of-world-war-ii/5616601 Were the August 1945 Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks used by the Pentagon to evaluate the viability of a much larger attack on the Soviet Union consisting of more than 204 atomic bombs? Chinese delegates at present UN security council today say 'We are at a crossroads in the history of humanity': No kidding! How blessed we are to be aware of this before such diplomatic nobility. Slowly America is awakening to the British agenda to take over the U.S.A: Just listening to a dark horse independant running for office of President who quoted Cecil Rhodes "Why should we not form a secret society for the furtherance of the British Empire and retaking of America!" Pointing to the enablement of 'Round Table' groups, the CFR connection to Chatham House etc. Once this catches fire this truth of America not in control of it's own foreign policy a mere puppet of the British Empire it will precipitate civil war?

Oh! How we have had enough of the propagandist lies about the west being the last bastion of free speech while keeping Assange incarcerated and Snowdon exiled to Russia! Yet while we here at e-watchman may be weary of being in receipt of truth we have to remember that there are those who are only now being awakened to the facts.

 

[Dean]

Yes it seems we cannot trust history can we. That is not surprising though is it now since we know who rules the world. I find it amazing when we ponder the book/history of Judges how very quickly (in less than one generation) Gods people forgot their own history 'And the Israelites dispersed from there at that time, each one to his tribe and his family, and they departed from there, each one to his inheritance. ..... Each one was doing what was right in his own eyes.'
For a certainty when I was being taught the basic bible truths what was hidden from me (by design I might add) was the true history of Jehovah's Witnesses. Not surprising those that taught me the 'Truth' or more correctly the 'Selective Truth' ........Hang on isn't that called 'Deception' (Gen 3:4,5) + (1 Tim 2:14) + (Jude 12) I was not taught the following......

That the modern day founder Charles Taze Rustle was Absolutely adamant that God did not have an 'Organisation,' He warned about it again and again in his writings. Quite an eye opener. Its incredulous that if you even suggested this very fact to any modern day JW they are so dumbed down to the actual truth of the matter they would brand you an apostate on the spot! Interestingly fast forward and the modern day GB WT .ORG hides this from all of the flock.

What was also hidden from me was that CT Rustle was massively into the demonic occult practise of pyramidology. Take a look here THE TESTIMONY OF GOD’S STONE WITNESS AND PROPHET, THE GREAT PYRAMID IN EGYPT. This is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg!!! The more you look the more one discovers the very foundations of the WT JW.ORG get more rotten with wood lice than a wood lice farm. Perhaps we should all start 'Eating Zee Bugs' after all!!

Last time I pondered the scriptures (Today) I see Paul to the Corinthians gave a stern warning of this very fact 'You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’?' Well I can't speak for anyone else but as for me I have no intention to incite my God to jealousy.

I ask myself this reasonable question?..... 'Can you build anything on a rotten foundation?' Would I? Would God? Would Jesus?

Fast forward to the WT studied at every single KH just a two months ago. It seems that they have not learnt their lesson. The continuing dumbing down of the history of JWs to a fluffy cuddly Pinocchio story of the actual history of the WT & JW.ORG

Now in the very Same WT.....spot the ongoing hidden in plain sight masonic satanic occult influence.

You cant make this stuff up!

 

[Dean]

Look carefully.​

Consider this. Where in Rev6:2 does the rider have a cape like superman?? This is no less guilty than the addition of the word ‘deadly plague' Who gave WT art department the authority to add a cape to the rider. In all their publications of recent years they have put a cape on our Lord Jesus Christ yet nowhere in scripture is Jesus depicted as wearing a cape. Hence to the oblivious viewer the first horseman must be Jesus by this alone. Please Watch this interview with Allan Boyle on the research that has to be done to go into the art work……Oh how far they have fallen from his example!!

I ask myself for what reason do known liars take it upon them selves to dress Our Lord Jesus Christ in a manner that is clearly not in the scriptures? Perhaps we should allow the scripters talk?
'For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.25 Look! I have forewarned you' (Matt 24 : 24,25)
'For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones.23 You, then, watch out. I have told you all things beforehand.' (Mark 13:22,23)

Just 2 days ago I poised this Question in my post above.
'I ask myself for what reason do known liars take it upon them selves to dress Our Lord Jesus Christ in a manner that is clearly not in the scriptures?'

Here is Todays JW.ORG website on the continuing drivel of What Gods Kindom is...............
'People want government leaders they can trust; ................................The Bible describes a government whose Leader is completely trustworthy and honest,'

This is a Satanic lie! Please type in 'Government' into your JW app = 8 Occurrences. Not a single one describing a Government (earthly 'Organisation') as Gods Kingdom. Now Type in Government(s) plural = A further 6 Again not one describing a Government (earthly 'Organisation') as Gods Kingdom. Do read them all.

Pauls letter to the Ephesians 6:12 is very telling do you not think?
because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places'

Now type in 'Kingdom' = 290 Not a single one in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek describes Gods 'Kingdom' as a Government. The preponderance of all holy scriptures in particular the scroll of Revelation attempts to help us mere humans visualise Gods Heavenly Celestial Kindom as a living indescribable beautiful thing, (even the wings of the living creatures have eyes all around and underneath) and so by definition it is diametrically opposed to to all earthly lifeless counterfeit Governments..(Dan 2:44)

Now back to the lifeless shaddowy jw.org post ......follow the links.

In Just 2 clicks we get to this psychedelic hypnotic new age looking completely unscriptural version of our Lord Jesus Christ wearing a red cape.

If you can stomach this listen to the opening sentence of the hypocrite David Splane Quote.... 'This month I would like to talk about the efforts Jehovah's Organisation is making to produce er literature publications articles that are as accurate as possible. We are going to talk about accuracy........bla bla bla '

Or if you have not watched it yet I encourage you do do so on the false claim the Organisations methods of producing accurate illustrations from the Art Department. Quote by the deceptive teacher Mark Noumair 'The beautiful and accurate illustrations produced there (world headquarters) enhance our study helping us to visualise and mediate...bla bla bla..'

Mr Noumair, Gilead Instructor, please may I also ask then besides the unauthorised addition of the completely inaccurate red cape added to the psychedelic hypnotic new age looking chap in the picture which I can only discern you mean to be our Lord Jesus Christ? Why then in this instance did you see fitting to only given him one crown? I myself do use the distorted NWT for some purposes and in there at Revelation 19:12 it declares 'His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems (Crowns) Byington, KJ,) Did our Lord and saviour not earn the others by the time his father Jehovah God Almighty begins to rule as King? Or please do forgive me is the person in the picture meant subliminally to be someone else perhaps??
A fair question is it not?

The demonic Hollywood art department seems to have their act together Mr Noumair , Mr Splane? so why don't you? Then again perhaps you do?

'For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.' (2 Corinthians 11:13,14 NWT)

 

[Nomex]

Not a single one in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek describes Gods 'Kingdom' as a Government.

You do realize that a Kingdom is in fact a government right? Your energies and effort would be better spent on more suitable topics.


Let me ask you this, how exactly is God's Kingdom going to run things here on earth, once Satan's system has been destroyed? Is there going to be organization? And if so, will it be systematic? That by definition is an organization. "God is a God of order not disorder." That is kind of like a military designation, but it does indeed describe God as organized, and like I said before, "organization", is simply the noun version of what organized is!

This is a non issue topic. It's not really relevant. Let me elaborate on the above. Take for example waste management? Unless you think there won't be any waste in the New System, something will have to be done about garbage. What about sewage and water? What about energy? How about travel by means of traffic, what about traffic laws? How about exchange for goods and services? All of these human problems have to be addressed and taken care of.

I do not understand what your point is regarding whether God has an organization or not. In my list of priorities, number one it's not even a subject of debate, number two, I'm a little more preoccupied with "is this government actually going to provoke a nuclear war with Russia." That is my actual pressing concern not to mention what else Satan's world has in store for us.

I am sorry, but you are wrong, by the act of creation and creating ranks among his creatures, starting with the angels, by definition IS AN ORGANIZATION, and I really do not care any more what WT has published or not published on the subject, since they themselves have no idea what is going on, what';s going to happen and what prophecy means, so why would I be concerned with something as mundane as what they think "organization" means?


The term "organization" itself is very generic...and once again I will post the definition...


organization:

1. The act or process of organizing.
2. The state or manner of being organized.
3. A manner of accomplishing something in an orderly or efficient way.
   
   I'm sorry brother, but Jehovah does indeed have an "organization" and all you have to do is understand plain English.
   
   If you want to refute that, don't quote WT nonsense, define organization and then explain to me how that does not apply to God's Kingdom, but use the definition of the words, not WT's mental gymnastics version of explanation. It's not a trick question, it is a very basic fact!
   
   Explain to me how you think a Kingdom is not a government, and how a Kingdom can exist without organization? But use the actual definition of the words, and keep in mind, the terms whether they are verbs, adverbs or a noun, cannot contradict the definition. In the case of the "noun" "organization" that is the definition of the accomplishment of the verbs "organize".
   
   Let me put this another way. Let's suppose God's Kingdom is not an orinization. What exactly is it you are intending to prove by this "realization?" I will tell you this, it seems like complete nonsense, because the function of life here on earth requires "organization." It is impossible to live life without organization.
   
   You seem to have plenty to offer to this group, but this is not one of them, IMO! You are splitting hairs about something that isn't and should not be any issue what so ever!
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[kirmmy]

You do realize that a Kingdom is in fact a government right? Your energies and effort would be better spent on more suitable topics.


Let me ask you this, how exactly is God's Kingdom going to run things here on earth, once Satan's system has been destroyed? Is there going to be organization? And if so, will it be systematic? That by definition is an organization. "God is a God of order not disorder." That is kind of like a military designation, but it does indeed describe God as organized, and like I said before, "organization", is simply the noun version of what organized is!

This is a non issue topic. It's not really relevant. Let me elaborate on the above. Take for example waste management? Unless you think there won't be any waste in the New System, something will have to be done about garbage. What about sewage and water? What about energy? How about travel by means of traffic, what about traffic laws? How about exchange for goods and services? All of these human problems have to be addressed and taken care of.

I do not understand what your point is regarding whether God has an organization or not. In my list of priorities, number one it's not even a subject of debate, number two, I'm a little more preoccupied with "is this government actually going to provoke a nuclear war with Russia." That is my actual pressing concern not to mention what else Satan's world has in store for us.

I am sorry, but you are wrong, by the act of creation and creating ranks among his creatures, starting with the angels, by definition IS AN ORGANIZATION, and I really do not care any more what WT has published or not published on the subject, since they themselves have no idea what is going on, what';s going to happen and what prophecy means, so why would I be concerned with something as mundane as what they think "organization" means?


The term "organization" itself is very generic...and once again I will post the definition...


organization:

1. The act or process of organizing.
2. The state or manner of being organized.
3. A manner of accomplishing something in an orderly or efficient way.
   
   I'm sorry brother, but Jehovah does indeed have an "organization" and all you have to do is understand plain English.
   
   If you want to refute that, don't quote WT nonsense, define organization and then explain to me how that does not apply to God's Kingdom, but use the definition of the words, not WT's mental gymnastics version of explanation. It's not a trick question, it is a very basic fact!
   
   Explain to me how you think a Kingdom is not a government, and how a Kingdom can exist without organization? But use the actual definition of the words, and keep in mind, the terms whether they are verbs, adverbs or a noun, cannot contradict the definition. In the case of the "noun" "organization" that is the definition of the accomplishment of the verbs "organize".
   
   Let me put this another way. Let's suppose God's Kingdom is not an orinization. What exactly is it you are intending to prove by this "realization?" I will tell you this, it seems like complete nonsense, because the function of life here on earth requires "organization." It is impossible to live life without organization.
   
   You seem to have plenty to offer to this group, but this is not one of them, IMO! You are splitting hairs about something that isn't and should not be any issue what so ever!
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Yep, I don't want to take sides but your explanation and analysis is right on. Brother Dean does have much to offer, as you said. I wouldn't have known that Rev 6:8 actually doesn't say "pestilence". The Greek is death. So I hope he continues to bring the good spiritual gifts.

 

[Nomex]

Brother Dean does have much to offer, as you said.

So I hope he continues to bring the good spiritual gifts.

I agree 100%...I think part of what happens to us, is the waking up process kind of sends our emotions into over drive, and makes it difficult to navigate this new found knowledge. I am convinced he has much to offer, but the focus on something so trivial, I sincerely hope he can be made to see what we see.

 

[Dean]

I do not understand what your point is regarding whether God has an organization or not. In my list of priorities, number one it's not even a subject of debate, number two, I'm a little more preoccupied with "is this government actually going to provoke a nuclear war with Russia." That is my actual pressing concern not to mention what else Satan's world has in store for us.

I am sorry, but you are wrong, by the act of creation and creating ranks among his creatures, starting with the angels, by definition IS AN ORGANIZATION, and I really do not care any more what WT has published or not published on the subject, since they themselves have no idea what is going on, what';s going to happen and what prophecy means, so why would I be concerned with something as mundane as what they think "organization" means?

You seem to have plenty to offer to this group, but this is not one of them, IMO! You are splitting hairs about something that isn't and should not be any issue what so ever!

Hello there Nomex.
Thank you for your post. I see that you are a little frustrated with me. That's ok. We are allowed to have different opinions. I am a little surprized though if I'm honest as we have been talking extensively on this subject in our private chat together which I have appreciated very much. I will reaffirm (copy & paste) just a few points from my replies here along with a few additions since you have raised points in the open forum. I'll highlight my previous answers to what we have spoke about in bold blue, and my added thoughts to you now in standard text

For a certainty I have no desire to be proved right on anything, if we do that it is a slippery path where pride can creep in.

• Pride is before a crash, And a haughty spirit before stumbling (Prov 16: 18)
• Woe to those wise in their own eyes, And discreet in their own sight! (Isaiah 21:22)
• Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. :Matt23:10,11 BSB)
• Ill add........Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up

Now on to your reply in the open forum. You raised valid points and I thank you for that. No doubt others will have thought the same, hence the open forum. I will shortly address these points for you and others and of course use the the scriptures as the basis. Perhaps then it may be best to let this one wane, but I promise I will always speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.....

....Please do mention what I have discussed here in your own personal prayers Nomex for a certainty Jah is listening and watching how we conduct ourselves....................as before God I have no other motive but to strengthen this unique little family that is going on here.

May I add to this Nomex that I simply have not had either the time or opportunity to post the answers to the points you have raised previous and have already expressed to you in private now restated here. I have started this process though and it is extensive. I intend to place it in a separate post/category. All I ask is for a little patience on this. Since you have raised definitions as very important, here is the one of patience (the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious.) Therefore rather than answer piecemeal where things can get lost in translation I would much prefer to follow the principle recorded at Luke 1:1 'Seeing that many have undertaken to compile an account of the facts that are given full credence among us.......I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order......so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught.'

For Instance this was my reply to another private chat which took up all my time yesterday.

Hello again my dear sister in the faith.
May I say just reading your journey was very moving.
Little be known to you, you have inspired me to finally start writing a bio intro and synopsis of my journey so you don't have to ponder who 'This mystery correspondent' is who goes around forums throwing lightning bolts everywhere. but I have found myself writing far to long an intro so I have copied it to word instead and I'll post it in the Intro section of this forum soon, as hopefully it will ease some opinions of who and what this 'know it all' is actually about. So you will just have to sit tight for that one.

You will also remember I previously wrote this to you

I do fully appreciate what you are saying here.... am not on any social networks for this reason. I'm a face to face man myself, Its amazing isn't it how a simple smile can disarm the most tense of situations. When we type here for instance no one can truly hear the tone of the voice, the subtle expressions on the face or certainly what is going on in ones heart. Also I'm a very slow typer which limits what to place in my content, therefore exactly what you mentioned above has come true. 'by it's nature I think leaves room for way too much misunderstanding' ..........................For example you will discover when I post my answers to the points you raised in that particular thread I had indeed thought far more deeply on all matters than you could have possibly imagined. But that is absolutely fine, how on earth are you supposed to know what I didn't write. Hence any forum by definition must be a 'medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged................On a forum such as this I make sure I pray before I read or reply to anything

You have concluded your remarks above with the comment 'You seem to have plenty to offer to this group, but this is not one of them, IMO! You are splitting hairs about something that isn't and should not be any issue what so ever!'

I can only repeat here what I have already expressed to you and so once more all I ask for is a little patience.

There are also very important issues that are burning within me that I feel need to be addressed. I have no desire or motive to be proved right on any matter, that is of no consequence. I also have zero desire to be a teacher / leader / watchman / prophet or anything else that's why I have not started a YouTube channel / forum / or any other platform.......I only wish to keep my so called 'freeness of speech' so the brothers still sleeping will have someone to come to when this whole global pack of cards come crashing down and yes that includes the 'Organisation'.................. it is taking me days on end to post here both public and private messages I am receiving. This reply already has taken me three hours or so. The reply to the public post between us I spent all day writing yesterday and I fear I have a couple more to go. (Fortunately my beautiful wife is very patient with me.) I already can picture the rebuttals which will come so I feel it best I pre-emptive what I already know will be posted. It is scripturally bulletproof but sadly my ability to convey this is not!

Our understanding of God and his Kindom Kindom being linked to an earthly Organisation is of greater importance than most can even comprehend. No less important perhaps than linking God & his Son to a false teaching of the trinity. Both lead unformed ones astray. The former into Idolatry. Nomex I promise I will address every single point you have raised. I will do so scripturally, logically, thoroughly, and prayerfully All I ask is a little patience.

May I for now conclude with posting here with your own words to me
.......one thing I have come to appreciate and realize these last couple years, is there is so much we do not know or understand, and that understanding has given me some measure of peace when I think of it in light of Jesus Apostles, who had a whole bunch of preconceived ideas about who and what the Messiah was, and what he was doing. I don't think it is any different now,..............I think it is a mistake for any of us to think we are in a position to "correct" someone else. We can share our opinions, but I think it's pointless if we are trying to "correct" others

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

You do realize that a Kingdom is in fact a government right? Your energies and effort would be better spent on more suitable topics.


Let me ask you this, how exactly is God's Kingdom going to run things here on earth, once Satan's system has been destroyed? Is there going to be organization? And if so, will it be systematic? That by definition is an organization. "God is a God of order not disorder." That is kind of like a military designation, but it does indeed describe God as organized, and like I said before, "organization", is simply the noun version of what organized is!

This is a non issue topic. It's not really relevant. Let me elaborate on the above. Take for example waste management? Unless you think there won't be any waste in the New System, something will have to be done about garbage. What about sewage and water? What about energy? How about travel by means of traffic, what about traffic laws? How about exchange for goods and services? All of these human problems have to be addressed and taken care of.

I do not understand what your point is regarding whether God has an organization or not. In my list of priorities, number one it's not even a subject of debate, number two, I'm a little more preoccupied with "is this government actually going to provoke a nuclear war with Russia." That is my actual pressing concern not to mention what else Satan's world has in store for us.

I am sorry, but you are wrong, by the act of creation and creating ranks among his creatures, starting with the angels, by definition IS AN ORGANIZATION, and I really do not care any more what WT has published or not published on the subject, since they themselves have no idea what is going on, what';s going to happen and what prophecy means, so why would I be concerned with something as mundane as what they think "organization" means?


The term "organization" itself is very generic...and once again I will post the definition...


organization:

1. The act or process of organizing.
2. The state or manner of being organized.
3. A manner of accomplishing something in an orderly or efficient way.
   
   I'm sorry brother, but Jehovah does indeed have an "organization" and all you have to do is understand plain English.
   
   If you want to refute that, don't quote WT nonsense, define organization and then explain to me how that does not apply to God's Kingdom, but use the definition of the words, not WT's mental gymnastics version of explanation. It's not a trick question, it is a very basic fact!
   
   Explain to me how you think a Kingdom is not a government, and how a Kingdom can exist without organization? But use the actual definition of the words, and keep in mind, the terms whether they are verbs, adverbs or a noun, cannot contradict the definition. In the case of the "noun" "organization" that is the definition of the accomplishment of the verbs "organize".
   
   Let me put this another way. Let's suppose God's Kingdom is not an orinization. What exactly is it you are intending to prove by this "realization?" I will tell you this, it seems like complete nonsense, because the function of life here on earth requires "organization." It is impossible to live life without organization.
   
   You seem to have plenty to offer to this group, but this is not one of them, IMO! You are splitting hairs about something that isn't and should not be any issue what so ever!
   
   

Personally Nomex, I believe that you’re right and wrong, although I’m not taking sides either but I believe the word “organization” or God’s organization has taken on a somewhat different meaning. In the congregation, the term “organization“ has taken on a somewhat different meaning…it’s given them this air of superiority just as the Jews attitude about them being the “chosen ones.”

I don’t think that Jehovah intended for this to take place among his people. That’s why I prefer to refer to us as God’s people or Jehovah’s people. Just as Peter alluded to in the first century Acts 15:14,17
“Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.“

“so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things,”

To take out of the nation “a people for his name” does not necessarily mean for them to be formed into an organization. But nevertheless they would be organized.

And so you may refer to Isaiah 43: 10 where Jehovah says “you are my witnesses.” And that is true but it seems in our day the word organization or the actual act of forming God’s people into an organization says a lot more than just the fact that we’re organized. Remember when Jesus’s disciples complained that there was another group, separate from them preaching but they were preaching the same message. Jesus told his disciples to leave them alone because they were preaching the same message as Jesus and his followers.

Yes, Jehovah wants us to be organized just as in the first century they were organized in twos to go preaching. But the organization has evolved into nothing but a corporate business empire that conducts itself like a business and the witnesses are their employees. At the same time they use Jehovah‘s name as a front.

Don’t you remember up until recent years at one time they were referred to as “the faithful slave“ or the ”society?”

I believe “organization“ started to be used more, and so they’ve taken on this cult mentality. That explains all the rules they’ve added and they’re being more restrictive in their treatment of the flock.

Don’t you think that Jehovah knew something like this would happen as a result of all of this…not to mention the WT studies we’ve had over the years that were studied to condition us to come to depend on only them for support.

Anyway, that’s my two cents worth. What do you think?

 

[Nomex]

All I ask is for a little patience on this.

I have no problem with that, and perhaps I just don't understand your point, perhaps it is more along these lines

but I believe the word “organization” or God’s organization has taken on a somewhat different meaning.

and to this point you will get no argument from me.

And that is true but it seems in our day the word organization or the actual act of forming God’s people into an organization says a lot more than just the fact that we’re organized. Remember when Jesus’s disciples complained that there was another group, separate from them preaching but they were preaching the same message. Jesus told his disciples to leave them alone because they were preaching the same message as Jesus and his followers.

Again no argument from me at all to this point...in fact I have been saying one of the problems with WT and the GB is the exact same thing as when the Bible says, "it does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." That is the indeed the problem with WT and it is the reason they claim "God's organization", in a statement like, we have to listen to "Jehovah, Jesus and God's origination or Jehovah's organization", and they do this in order to give themselves authority they do not have. It is that designation they have given themselves that all JW's believe gives them "authority".


@Dean perhaps I am not understanding your meaning, and perhaps I'd agree if I understood exactly what you mean.

I see that you are a little frustrated with me.

So yes I am a little frustrated with you for a couple of reasons.

Now part of that may just come down to how I think about things. I am very analytical, I kind of break all parts of a subject into smaller pieces and then put them back together to see if it makes sense, both on things I have already come to believe and understand, but also on new subjects. I don't mean to come across as intolerant, and I have no problem with waiting on your explanation, but when you continue to post the same thing that as for now I do not agree with or perhaps don't understand your perspective, then yeah I am a little frustrated. If you said something like "God does not have an organization on earth at this time", then that is something I doubt you'd get too much push back from. The problem with "organized religion" is not that it's organized, but who is doing the organization!

I don't really understand why this is something that you are putting so much effort into, and the way I understand what you are saying I just don't agree with because somewhere I thought you wrote something like God's doesn't have an "organization" in heaven. And that is where we disagree if that's what you think. And I cannot think of anything that would change my mind.


But I stand by what I said above...

when I think of it in light of Jesus Apostles, who had a whole bunch of preconceived ideas about who and what the Messiah was, and what he was doing. I don't think it is any different now

None of us are above correction!!! Even me!!!

 

[A B]

Dean, I do appreciate your heightened attention to detail but I'm wondering if you went just a little too far into splitting hairs here, unless I am misunderstanding something. Ever since the horse was created only one other creature has consistently dominated and rode it and that would be man. So while the Bible doesn't specifically say the rider is a man I do not see an issue that any translator or artist assumes so.

At work, if someone was excelling maybe a bit too much we would often joke about them wearing a cape. Though not specifically included in the Bible description, a cape just seems to symbolize a heightened level of importance and again, if the four horsemen are pictured with such, though its interesting to put them side by side with superheroes, I am not sure there is a conclusion there. The ride of the four horse riders is significant and powerful just the same as any interaction with Nephilimic superheroes would be.

As far as death goes, if we think about people who have lived during the last 6 millenniums, it would be observable and possible for them to be able to distinguish if someone was killed in battle or died by famine. But how would they know the difference of someone dying by a heart attack vs pneumonia? It is awkward for us to say someone was 'killed by death' but in the context of previous centuries maybe it is not so bad. I don't see a flashing red light with translators using pestilence or plague there as maybe they are trying to bridge and issue that only exists for us in our modern world of information.

I appreciate all that you wrote and I would really VERY MUCH like to see what your laser focus comes up with for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 in the Kingdom Interlinear.

Maybe someone can post a screen shot of this verse from the Kingdom Interlinear as I can't from this computer.

I really believe there is a THERE there.

It would be interesting to see what YOUR powers of observation see.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I do appreciate your heightened attention to detail but I'm wondering if you went just a little too far into splitting hairs here, unless I am misunderstanding something. Ever since the horse was created only one other creature has consistently dominated and rode it and that would be man. So while the Bible doesn't specifically say the rider is a man I do not see an issue that any translator or artist assumes so.

MsLadyblue posted the following comment
thank you....for....the thorough research you’ve put into this to help sharpen our “spiritual” senses.
Still, there is a lot to be said about the pale horse and it’s rider that causes death.
A couple of years ago I came to the conclusion that all, if not most of the signs that Jesus gave as well as horse and it’s riders referred to man made,

If you have a look I gave a thumbs up to this because I agreed. In my concluding comments of the riders you will notice I did not contradict that they are men I simply stated that the scriptures did not state that they were. Therefore Jehovah simply wants us to personally think about it. My conclusion is that they are symbolic men with man made problems, but I have concluded personally that the first rider is not a man. So the point was simply to get us to think about this and not to just take for granted that outside of scripture they have been given the title 'Horse Men.' Since the scriptures do not give us the description I do not think one would get into trouble from the Almighty for painting an illustration of what one may think it to be. It's interesting also to note that in scripture the riders are not described as suffering the same afflictions as the horses, but again I do not believe one would get into trouble of the Almighty for painting an illustration of such although I believe I have discerned why this is in my own personal study.

However the completely inaccurate illustration of our Our Lord Jesus Christ is a wholly different matter. The book of Revelation goes to great detail to describe his appearance unlike the riders of the horses. And so it should. He is our King. We do not need to add anything to heighten his level of importance, let's leave that to the Satanic Hollywood heroes shall we, for a certainly it is no joking matter! I wonder when King Charles has his annual portrait done how he would feel if the artist put a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses on him to make him more hip, current or popular with the masses.

As for adding words to the Bible you do not have to ask if I am splitting hairs. Lets see what Jehovah says on the matter....

In Genesis 2:17 Jehovah gave the simplest of instructions to Adam regarding a tree. We do not know how old Adam was at this stage of his life but what we do know is that he was settled and so fully understood what his father told him and the consequences of not listening precisely. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” Adam knew what that simple instruction meant and so he did not deviate from it.

Sometime later during Adams life Jehovah brought to him beautiful Eve made from his own rib. Eve was still a young babe in her knowledge and experience at least when she was given the instruction. Have you ever noticed that the instructions given to Eve were slightly different from those given by Jehovah to Adam? Notice what was added But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die. (Gen 3:3) Every parent at some time or other has uttered the words ‘Don’t touch’ Yes because Eve was so young she was told something she could understand you must not touch. Sadly those ever so simple instructions were not followed. Just look at the consequence!

Faithful Joshua at the end of his life had learnt this lesson well. He summoned all Israel and uttered these words to them ‘observe and carry out all that is written in the book of the Law of Moses by never deviating from it to the right or to the left, (Jos 23:6) Because he knew only too well the inclination of their hearts in going astray he added the most straight forward of instructions. by never mingling with these nations that remain with you. You must not even mention the names of their gods.
 Why oh why is it that that Gods cherished creatures continue to split hairs with the Almighty, and water his words down by putting their own interpretation on very clear and simple instructions given for their own good.

In the 28th & 29th Chapter of Isaiah there is a most forceful prophecy directed to the spiritual drunkards of Ephraim. Any discerning reader will see that the context is an end time’s prophecy directed at a particular group. They are drunk, but not with wine; (Isa 29:9)
Now notice vs 16 How you twist things!
Continuing in Isa 30:10,12 They say to the seers, ‘Do not see,’ And to the visionaries, ‘Do not tell us truthful visions. Tell us flattering things; envision deceptive illusions…….. And you trust in fraud and deceit

Revelation 22:18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll.

From the very first simple to follow instructions to Man, recorded in the opening pages of God’s word, through thousands of years of mankind’s history with warning after warning and example after example Do not!…..do not!….do not! which continues down to the very last words uttered in the scroll of Revelation….We are told again and again to simply stick to the script. Do not deviate from it not even a smidge.

Adam understood that, Baby Eve understood that, the patriarchs understood that, the nation of Israel understood that, the Kings and Prophets understood that, The apostles understood that, the early Christians understood that…….And from all the lousy stupid mistakes I have made in my life I have finally come also to understand that. However as prophesied there are a group of lawless corrupt men hell bent (for want of a better word) who do not understand that and the consequences of deviating from his word.

So the question is brother not if I am splitting hairs with the Almighty but are you?

As for the drunkards of Ephraim they were clearly intoxicated when they bragged about the lengths they go to produce The beautiful and accurate illustrations produced here then did not apply it to the illustration of our Lord Jesus Christ. They have given him a quick change wardrobe to match any Hollywood star. Last time I looked that matched the description Jesus gave just prior to leaving the Temple area for the Mount of Olives where he continued with the parable of the evil slave. Did you notice they go to the very same place as the  hypocrites he mentioned half an hour earlier ‘Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds… 29 . “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites…..33 “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna? Matt 24:48 “But if ever that evil slave……. and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites.

 

[Dean]

I appreciate all that you wrote and I would really VERY MUCH like to see what your laser focus comes up with for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 in the Kingdom Interlinear.
Maybe someone can post a screen shot of this verse from the Kingdom Interlinear as I can't from this computer.
I really believe there is a THERE there.
It would be interesting to see what YOUR powers of observation see.

I would like to know where you put the THERE exactly and your reasons why?

 

[Dean]

As far as death goes, if we think about people who have lived during the last 6 millenniums, it would be observable and possible for them to be able to distinguish if someone was killed in battle or died by famine. But how would they know the difference of someone dying by a heart attack vs pneumonia? It is awkward for us to say someone was 'killed by death' but in the context of previous centuries maybe it is not so bad. I don't see a flashing red light with translators using pestilence or plague there as maybe they are trying to bridge and issue that only exists for us in our modern world of information.

One added point on you comment here. If Jehovah wanted us to know explicitly what made the Pale horse sick looking (Greenish Yellow) he would have told us. As it happens he does to a degree. .....vs 8. And by 'Wild beasts of the earth'. What are they? Our job in our personal study is to discern with the aid of holy spirit how wild beasts can be responsible for the horse to be Pale? I believe I know and there were many thoughtful comments on this. However for anyone to add to God's word with what they want others to think it should be, go against Christ himself. Last time I researched that topic the Antichrist came up!

Matt 13:10 So the disciples came and said to him: “Why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” 11 In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted

 

[Duran]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 in the Kingdom Interlinear.
Maybe someone can post a screen shot of this verse from the Kingdom Interlinear as I can't from this computer.
I really believe there is a THERE there.

17 ἔπειτα thereupon ἡμεῖς we οἱ the ζῶντες living οἱ the (ones) περιλειπόμενοι being left around ἅμα at the same time σὺν together with αὐτοῖς them ἁρπαγησόμεθα we will be snatched ἐν in νεφέλαις clouds εἰς into ἀπάντησιν meeting τοῦ of the κυρίου Lord εἰς into ἀέρα· air; καὶ and οὕτως thus πάντοτε always σὺν together with κυρίῳ Lord ἐσόμεθα. we shall be.

17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.

 

[A B]

In the illustration of the 4 horsemen you posted I notice three of the four horses have bridles and one doesn't but we aren't talking about that because I think everyone (and hopefully you) accepts that detail as acceptable within the realm of artistic license (as long as no inaccuracy affecting the meaning is transmitted). Does the rider of the red horse have metal or leather armor, does it matter?

Regardless of the identity of the rider of the white horse, I do not see what accuracy or inaccuracy is transmitted by the depiction of a cape. I get it that you think it runs afoul of their self proclaimed accuracy (and I am very sympathetic to that viewpoint) but just like the bridle/no bridle issue...what meaningful inaccuracy is being transmitted with the inclusion of a cape?

 

[A B]

I would like to know where you put the THERE exactly and your reasons why?

I politely withdraw this item.

 

[Dean]

In the illustration of the 4 horsemen you posted I notice three of the four horses have bridles and one doesn't but we aren't talking about that because I think everyone (and hopefully you) accepts that detail as acceptable within the realm of artistic license (as long as no inaccuracy affecting the meaning is transmitted). Does the rider of the red horse have metal or leather armor, does it matter?

So friend we agree. I cannot argue with anything you have said here as my reasoning above hopefully demonstrates. I myself did not notice that in the illustration I posted from the WT three of the four horsemen had bridles per se, although it would be flapping around in the spiritual realm wouldn't it since the rider has a bow in his-hand. Therefore is good to see your 'laser focus' as you put it, go into action. For my small part I am happy that your “spiritual” senses may have been sharpened.

Regardless of the identity of the rider of the white horse, I do not see what accuracy or inaccuracy is transmitted by the depiction of a cape. I get it that you think it runs afoul of their self proclaimed accuracy (and I am very sympathetic to that viewpoint) but just like the bridle/no bridle issue...what meaningful inaccuracy is being transmitted with the inclusion of a cape?

That's ok with me. I'll leave you to split hairs with the Almighty!

 

[Dean]

17 ἔπειτα thereupon ἡμεῖς we οἱ the ζῶντες living οἱ the (ones) περιλειπόμενοι being left around ἅμα at the same time σὺν together with αὐτοῖς them ἁρπαγησόμεθα we will be snatched ἐν in νεφέλαις clouds εἰς into ἀπάντησιν meeting τοῦ of the κυρίου Lord εἰς into ἀέρα· air; καὶ and οὕτως thus πάντοτε always σὺν together with κυρίῳ Lord ἐσόμεθα. we shall be.

17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together* with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.

Welcome to the forum Duran. All I can say is WOW! AB surely must have been praying relentlessly to his/her request 'Maybe someone can post a screen shot of this verse from the Kingdom Interlinear as I can't from this computer.' (time stamp Yesterday 11.02am) Then as nobody did, out of the blue you joined e-jehovahs-witnesses with no other posts at all, no history and then took the time to read all this thread on this forum Yesterday, and then by 11:06pm you kindly posted the kindom interlinear as requested by AB. Please don't be confused, because reading all the threads as you will have done and discerned that I already have the Kindom interlinear it must have been by the power of Jah's spirit directing you as he knows only too well I suffer from amnesia.

I am ever so sorry you went to all that trouble then with the aid of Jehovah's spirit, because when I had raised the simple question back with AB him/her 'I would like to know where you put the THERE exactly and your reasons why? and despite AB declaring boldly and openly I appreciate all that you wrote and I would really VERY MUCH like to see what your laser focus comes up with for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 in the Kingdom Interlinear. only for the question to fizzle out with a whimper by AB 'I politely withdraw this item. ' (Today 4.54am) Please don't get disheartened Duran, I'm sure there is a very good reason AB was simply not willing to answer the question he/she themselves so flattering poised to me with the terms I appreciate and laser focus. As I know for a certainty you do have a bible to hand, perhaps ponder the accounts recorded for us at Matthew 22:15-18 & Matt 21:24-27

You will though have gained much encouragement by the fact you got not one but 2x within an hour or two. Sadly I did not receive the same 2x despite stating nothing but scripture after scripter from Genesis to Revelation on why we must not mess around with Gods word. Alas I fear you will come also to discern that on this forum it is a common practice for shadowy figures with no name all to often sidestep scripture and receive many likes from those who's hearts feel the same. Take strength though my new shadowy friend, who's name I do not know, please do not think for a moment that something nefarious has taken place. Only a fool would think that. Then again I take strength at Pauls words to the Corinthians where he declared 'but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame;' Paul no doubt reflected on his sin when he witnessed first hand some men of the so-called Synagogue of the Freedmen came forward to dispute with Stephen, yet obviously they could not hold their own against the wisdom and the spirit with which he was speaking. He proved this to all onlookers as he recited scripture after scripture from Genesis to Christ, yet when he concluded by implicating the shadowy figures of his day and those cowards who backed them up what did they do? Killed him!

Duran take heed my shadowy friend if you join those who's hearts are not inclined towards scripture you will not be attacked or killed in this virtual online world, but as I have honestly and openly demonstrated during my short visit here you will have an accounting with the Almighty. Remember and meditate on our Lord Jesus Christ very sobering words to the seven congregations in the province of Asia. I implore you not to give yourself a pat on the back but to look deeply within and discern his meaning when he said 'Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations'

As for me Duran sadly it seems we will not get the opportunity to get to know one another on a deeper level. Although I can be virtually stoned here for declaring Gods word accurately I cannot be killed. Yet many years after Paul himself had taken part in the stoning of the innocent man Stephen he found himself proclaiming the very same message in the very same way in a synagogue in Antioch, scripture after scripture Genesis to Christ - and a stern warning at the end 'Therefore, watch out that what is said in the Prophets does not come upon you: ‘Look at it, you scorners, and be amazed, and perish, for I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will never believe even if anyone relates it to you in detail' yet what was the result my friend? 'When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began blasphemously contradicting the things Paul was saying.' And Paul and Barnabas spoke out squarely and said “It was necessary that the word of God must be spoken first to you; since you rebuff it and vote yourselves not worthy of the eternal life, here we turn to the foreign nations;

Yes my new found shadowy friend Duran I say goodbye. The Spirit of Jah has spoken and it seems my time and energy's are best spent elsewhere to encourage those who most have a desire to hear Gods word for what it is, unadulterated truth not to be messed with. Please be kind and do not celebrate with those who will for a certainty be glad I'm gone. I am logging out of this forum now and I will not be back.

Grace mercy love and peace be with you my friend I desire it to reside upon all honest lovers of Gods word, many who do indeed reside here in this forum. You will spot them for a certainty as a pure heart is difficult to miss.