Saturday, June 3 2023 Is it really “true religion”?

PJ54

Well-known member

Saturday, June 3 2023​

Happy is the one who finds no cause for stumbling in me.—Matt. 11:6.

Do you remember the moment when you first realized that you had found the truth? You felt that everyone would want to accept the things you had come to believe. You were convinced that the Bible’s message would give them a meaningful life now and a wonderful hope for the future. (Ps. 119:105) So you enthusiastically shared the truths you had found with all your friends and relatives. But what happened? To your surprise, many rejected what you told them. None of us should be surprised when others reject the message we preach. In Jesus’ day, the majority rejected him, even though he performed miracles, proving that he had God’s backing. For example, Jesus resurrected Lazarus—a miracle that those who opposed him could not deny. Nevertheless, the Jewish leaders did not accept Jesus as the Messiah. They even wanted to kill both Jesus and Lazarus!—John 11:47, 48, 53; 12:9-11. w21.05 2 ¶1-2
Examining the Scriptures Daily—2023
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Tuesday, October 14 2014​

True worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.—John 4:23.
Our spiritual heritage includes a wealth of accurate and valuable information from the past. For example, consider Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These patriarchs and their families must have had discussions about how to please Jehovah. So it is not surprising that upright Joseph rejected sexual immorality so as not to “sin against God.” (Gen. 39:7-9) Christian traditions were also handed down orally or by example. Among these were points regarding the Lord’s Evening Meal that the apostle Paul passed on to Christian congregations. (1 Cor. 11:2, 23) Today, details needed for us to worship God “with spirit and truth” are part of his written Word. (John 4:24) The Bible is for the enlightenment of all mankind, but we as Jehovah’s servants especially appreciate it. w13 2/15 1:6

Commentary

The Society may boast of practicing the true religion, but according to the letter of James the form of worship that God approves is characterized by remaining spotless from the world and looking after orphans and widows in their time of distress. But has the leadership of the organization remained spotless from worldly entanglements? Jehovah knows such is not the case. And when the Society’s lawyers become adversaries at law with child sex abuse victims, can the Society really boast of practicing the truth?

Rather, then worshipping the Father with spirit and truth the leading men of the organization have become outright enemies of God and shall be dealt with accordingly by the Son.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
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August 29th, 2010
Matt Slick of The Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) asks that very question (Is the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion Christian?) and conveniently supplies the reader with the answer. Here is a quote taken from the no defunct CARM website:

“The answer to the question is, ‘No. It is not Christian.’ Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah’s Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity.”
What “essential doctrines of Christianity” have Jehovah’s Witnesses distorted? The next sentence enumerates three:

“It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian.”
So, according to CARM’s criteria for determining what constitutes true Christianity, Jehovah’s Witnesses’ teachings are not Christian because they deny the deity of Christ; the nature of Christ’s resurrection and “salvation by grace.”

Briefly, let us examine each point.

Accusing Jehovah’s Witnesses of denying the deity of Christ is akin to saying that Jehovah’s Witnesses deny that Jesus was an alien being from Mars, which is, of course, true: Jehovah’s Witnesses deny that Jesus was a Martian. But Jehovah’s Witnesses do not deny that Jesus is the Son of God. The reason we are accused of denying the so-called “deity of Christ” is because Jesus never personally claimed to be God; so why should anyone else make that claim? It is simply not a Bible doctrine. It is a human doctrine.

But even so, it is not strictly true that Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the deity of Christ. The Scriptures make it plain that Jesus is the exact representation of Jehovah and while he was a spirit in heaven Jesus was himself a god. In other words, he possesses divine nature. However, according to what Paul stated in Philippians Jesus emptied himself of his divinity when he became flesh. So, it is proper to refer to the deity of Christ as it relates to his heavenly existence; however, when Jesus was on earth he was a mere man, albeit a perfect man.

Consider, too, that in the four gospel accounts Christ never once said that he was God—not so much as once! He certainly had many opportunities to do so, and no doubt he would have plainly stated that he was God if it were true. Jesus wanted people to know the truth about himself and his unique relationship with God. That is why he frequently declared that he was the Son of God—and a worshipper of Jehovah God. A man whose sinless life corresponded to the value of the first perfect man – Adam. That is why Paul referred to Jesus as “the second man.”

Given the facts, thinking persons would do well to consider why it is, then, that trinitarians have made Jesus’ supposed godship one of the “essential doctrines of Christianity.”

Of course, in the minds of those who are steeped in trinitarian dogma, the father and son and holy ghost are all the same person, only different persons. As nonsensical as that is, that is exactly how the Trinity is “explained.” Here is how CARM explains it:

“The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God. There are three persons individual subsistences, or persons.”
Although ardent believers insist that each person of the Trinity is his own individual, still, there is only one god, not three gods in one. How can three separate persons be the same entity? No one knows. Like all Trinitarians, CARM also admits that the Trinity is an unknowable “mystery.” (An incomprehensible mythology would be more accurate.)

The fact that Jesus repeatedly declared himself to be God’s son means nothing to a person who has been mentally conditioned to believe that Jesus is God. The doctrine of the Trinity is like a house of mirrors. Nothing is as it seems. For instance, Trinity believers apparently believe that fathers beget themselves as sons and sons beget their own fathers, too. Except in the mythological world of the Trinity, the Father did not beget the son at all. The son has always existed just as his father has always existed. Apparently, though, for some strange reason the trinitarian god likes to pretend that there is some sort of father-son relationship between his multiple personalities. Just why the godhead explains his existence in terms of his being a father and son to himself is anyone’s guess. No wonder believers declare their own mystification over the Trinity doctrine.

In reality the Bible says absolutely nothing about some mysterious triplets making up a single god. Certainly the apostles and first century Christians made no mention whatsoever of any sort of divine trio comprising a single godhead. The truth is that neither the word trinity nor the concept of three persons rolled into one God is found in the Bible. Yet, somehow, it is considered one of the essential doctrines by Trinitarians.

But if it is not biblical, just where did the mystery trinity concept come from anyway?

The worship of three divine personages predates Christianity by thousands of years. Evidently the Babylonians first conceived of a triad of gods. Later the Egyptians worshipped the triad of Osiris, Isis and Horus. During the time of Christ, the Romans idolized Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva. (See The Two Babylons—originally published in 1853)

How then did a pagan form of worship become the central teaching of Christendom? It is well known that after the apostles died off, Christianity became increasingly corrupt. As a result of an apostasy from Jehovah and under the influence of the demons, Jesus was gradually elevated from being the Son of God to God the son.

Finally, in 325, the Roman Emperor Constantine hosted a conference of bishops in Nicaea, where it was decided that Jesus was God. Amazingly, over the course of a few hundred years the Roman emperors went from feeding Christians to the lions to playing a major role in determining Christian doctrine! Although it would take several more centuries for the truth to be entirely snuffed out, eventually the trinity was institutionalized as the central teaching of Christendom.

 
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PJ54

Well-known member

What about the resurrection of Jesus?​

According to CARM, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not Christians because of denying that Christ was physically resurrected. That is a misleading statement. It might give uninformed persons the impression that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus was only symbolically resurrected, or something of that nature. Apparently, CARM intends to give the impression that Jehovah’s Witnesses deny Christ’s resurrection. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Jehovah’s Witnesses most certainly believe and teach that Jesus was put to death and on the third day Jehovah resurrected him.

What does the Bible say about the resurrection of Jesus? It plainly says that Jesus was a spirit (as the Logos or Word) before he came to the earth, and upon his death and resurrection he returned to heaven—as a spirit. Here is what is stated at 1 Peter 3:18: “For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.”

Although the old King James mistranslates the verse above to say that Jesus was “quickened by the spirit,” modern versions say along the lines similar to the NWT. For example, the popular NIV states that Jesus “was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.” And the context makes plain that the apostle was contrasting flesh and spirit – not merely life and death. Obviously, Jesus could not have preached to the disobedient spirits in the heavenly realm if he was flesh.

Of course, for a brief period of 40 days following his resurrection Jesus materialized as a human—often unrecognizable by his disciples—in order to convince them that he had indeed been raised from the dead. And it is true that Jesus visibly ascended into the clouds with pre-selected earthly observers as witnesses of his ascension. How else could his skeptical disciples be convinced that Jesus ascended back to heaven unless they saw it with their own eyes?

Unfortunately, the same people that insist that God is a mysterious amalgam of three persons rolled into one also believe that Jesus was raised up as a glorified man and not a spirit. This is in spite of the fact that in the 4th chapter of John Jesus very simply stated “God is a spirit.” The suggestion that Jesus was resurrected in the flesh is all the more absurd in view of CARM’s hackneyed explanation of the Trinity:

“God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.”
Since trinitarians claim that Jesus is God, we would have to conclude that God is part flesh and part spirit. Of course, CARM does not offer any explanation as to how three persons making up a triune god can share the same “essence” and “subsistence” when one is a spirit and the other is supposedly glorified flesh. No matter—sheer belief apparently is all that is necessary. In spite of such torturous teachings, CARM claims that Jehovah’s Witnesses are distorting essential Christian doctrines. If it were not such a serious matter it would be laughable.

Apparently some of the 1st century Christians had similar unreasonable ideas concerning the resurrection. Thankfully the apostle Paul was not nearly so confused about the nature of the heavenly resurrection. That is why in his letter to the Corinthians Paul said: “Nevertheless, someone will say: ‘How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?’ You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body.”

Paul beautifully illustrates the change in nature that takes place in the case of the heavenly resurrection. By comparing the germination and transformation of a seed into a plant that bears no obvious similarity to the parent seed, we are helped to grasp the fact that in order for a human to be transformed into a spirit, the physical person must first die—just as the seed in effect dies; since no distinguishing feature of the seed is observable in the plant it produces. In the same manner, humans must first die in order to be transformed into spirits. There are no flesh-and-blood creatures in the spirit realm—only spirits.

Indeed, the foremost authority, Jesus himself, stated in the 3rd chapter of John that ‘flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit,’ which is to say that humans are flesh and God and the angels, are spirits. They are different in nature. That is why Jesus went on to say that in order to enter the kingdom a person had to be born again—because as Paul also indicated in the 15th chapter of I Corinthians, quoted above, flesh cannot inherit the kingdom. Being born again is the process by which a flesh and blood, physical, human is begotten as a spirit son of God in order that they may eventually leave behind their physical bodies and be transformed into the glory of Christ—who is himself the exact representation of Jehovah’s glory.

What about salvation by grace?

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses deny that? Absolutely not! The Watchtower has always taught that salvation is a result of Jehovah’s undeserved kindness.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
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Tuesday, October 14 2014​

True worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.—John 4:23.

Commentary

The Society may boast of practicing the true religion, but according to the letter of James the form of worship that God approves is characterized by remaining spotless from the world and looking after orphans and widows in their time of distress. But has the leadership of the organization remained spotless from worldly entanglements? Jehovah knows such is not the case. And when the Society’s lawyers become adversaries at law with child sex abuse victims, can the Society really boast of practicing the truth?

Rather, then worshipping the Father with spirit and truth the leading men of the organization have become outright enemies of God and shall be dealt with accordingly by the Son.
Hey! I thought that Stephen Lett said that babies were enemies of God!!!:sneaky::rolleyes:

Not a proud moment for WT...
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
The Jews were God's people. Even Jesus said so. He once told a Samaritan woman "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews." Nevertheless, in order to obtain salvation the Jews had to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah. As the daily text points out, most didn't.

The same pattern will be played out in the future. Jehovah's Witnesses know the truth, at least the doctrinal truth of the Bible. However, the Watchtower is also the source of the foretold deceptive influence; the grand lie that Christ has already come, that the parousia is invisible, is a massive stumbling block. And Jesus said many will be stumbled and hate one another and betray one another. Why? They will not accept the new reality when Jesus actually comes.
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
For years, especially the early years of my witnessing I came across so many who believe in the Trinity so I took advantage of the Reasoning book and my own logical understanding, and noted so many scriptures that clearly refuted the Trinity doctrine. For example, 1Corinthians 15: 24
“Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.”

Actually, all of 1Corinthians chapter 15 disproves this doctrine.

1John 4:2,3
“This is how you know that the inspired statement is from God: Every inspired statement that acknowledges Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God. 3 But every inspired statement that does not acknowledge Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s inspired statement that you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.”

Christendom believes God came in the flesh, not Jesus Christ. Little do they realize how serious this is for believing contrary to what the Bible teaches about God and Jesus Christ.

And John 3:16
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”


This is their main scripture used that is central in their teaching and yet they don’t get the sense of it. Plainly they’re under an illusion.
But when you think about it these scriptures as well as many others were not put in the Bible to disprove the Trinity doctrine…
 

David Peter

Well-known member
They seem to suffer from a multiple personality disorder (sorry couldn''t resist it lol)
They ( Trinitarians) worship the -[ Me - Myself and I God ]- whose also woke, because he 's a- they- them , and a trans Spirit that identifies as a Man .
The they - them God so to speak. 🤯🤪😳
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
They ( Trinitarians) worship the -[ Me - Myself and I God ]- whose also woke, because he 's a- they- them , and a trans Spirit that identifies as a Man .
The they - them God is a gay spiritual manajahtwa ( Me'nage a tris ) so to speak. 🤯🤪😳
Huh?? 😳 say what?? I know this is suppose to make sense but then trying to explain the Trinity, it doesn’t make sense. You just added to the confusion. 😆 sounds like babbling to me.

That’s why the world empire of false religion is referred to as Babylon the Great eh. No mystery there.
 
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