Saturday, September 17 2022 He will guide you into all the truth

Cristo

Well-known member
This timeline is a very rough draft and most certainly not to an accurate scale concerning days and years. There are many things that can be adjusted on this timeline. I put in the things that are known to us for sure regarding the 1260 days, however there is no way to know how long the beast suffers the death stroke, nor when the tribulation begins and ends, and many other things. The Red line and that which is attached I feel is solid, everything else is up to interpretation. If you have questions why I put things where they are please ask and I will explain. Hopefully though it can help us to create a more accurate timeline through discussion and sound reasoning God willing. (if you click on image should get bigger)

TimelineEvents.jpg

(Da 8:10-12) “. . .And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down. 11 And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 And an army itself was gradually given over, together with the constant [feature], because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success.”

(Da 8:14) “. . .So he said to me: “Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition.””


(Da 12:7) “. . .And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.””


(Da 12:11) “11 “And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

(Da 12:12) “12 “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!”

(Mt 24:7-14) “7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. . .”

(Re 11:11) “. . .And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. . .”

(Re 11:3) “. . .And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”. . .”

(Re 6:1-12) “. . .And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice as of thunder: “Come!” 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest. 3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him. 5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come!” And I saw, and, look! a black horse; and the one seated upon it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a de·nar´i·us, and three quarts of barley for a de·nar´i·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.” 7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come!” 8 And I saw, and, look! a pale horse; and the one seated upon it had the name Death. And Ha´des was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth. 9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been. 12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the entire moon became as blood,”

(Re 8:1-2) “. . .And when he opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in heaven for about a half hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels that stand before God, and seven trumpets were given them.”

(Re 12:13-14) “. . .Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.”

(Re 13:3) “. . .And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. . .”

(Re 13:5) “. . .And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.”
 
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MickHewitt

Well-known member
This timeline is a very rough draft and most certainly not to an accurate scale concerning days and years. There are many things that can be adjusted on this timeline. I put in the things that are known to us for sure regarding the 1260 days, however there is no way to know how long the beast suffers the death stroke, nor when the tribulation begins and ends, and many other things. The Red line and that which is attached I feel is solid, everything else is up to interpretation. If you have questions why I put things where they are please ask and I will explain. Hopefully though it can help us to create a more accurate timeline through discussion and sound reasoning God willing.

View attachment 1870
I'm hoping the time difference mentioned in Daniel what is it an extra 75 days? happy if you reach 1335 days? What's that 2 and half month, would that be a 'cut short' period? Hee hee be great if true we could calculate how much porridge to store
 

Cristo

Well-known member
I'm hoping the time difference mentioned in Daniel what is it an extra 75 days? happy if you reach 1335 days? What's that 2 and half month, would that be a 'cut short' period? Hee hee be great if true we could calculate how much porridge to store
Yes wouldn't that be nice. No doubt at time gets closer more will be understood. If you mean Cream of Wheat/Porridge I'm all for it. Grew up on that stuff. Maltomeal not as good.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
This timeline is a very rough draft and most certainly not to an accurate scale concerning days and years. There are many things that can be adjusted on this timeline. I put in the things that are known to us for sure regarding the 1260 days, however there is no way to know how long the beast suffers the death stroke, nor when the tribulation begins and ends, and many other things. The Red line and that which is attached I feel is solid, everything else is up to interpretation. If you have questions why I put things where they are please ask and I will explain. Hopefully though it can help us to create a more accurate timeline through discussion and sound reasoning God willing. (if you click on image should get bigger)

View attachment 1870

(Da 8:10-12) “. . .And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down. 11 And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 And an army itself was gradually given over, together with the constant [feature], because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success.”

(Da 8:14) “. . .So he said to me: “Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition.””


(Da 12:7) “. . .And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.””


(Da 12:11) “11 “And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

(Da 12:12) “12 “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!”

(Mt 24:7-14) “7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. . .”

(Re 11:11) “. . .And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. . .”

(Re 11:3) “. . .And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”. . .”

(Re 6:1-12) “. . .And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice as of thunder: “Come!” 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest. 3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him. 5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come!” And I saw, and, look! a black horse; and the one seated upon it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a de·nar´i·us, and three quarts of barley for a de·nar´i·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.” 7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come!” 8 And I saw, and, look! a pale horse; and the one seated upon it had the name Death. And Ha´des was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth. 9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been. 12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the entire moon became as blood,”

(Re 8:1-2) “. . .And when he opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in heaven for about a half hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels that stand before God, and seven trumpets were given them.”

(Re 12:13-14) “. . .Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.”

(Re 13:3) “. . .And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. . .”

(Re 13:5) “. . .And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.”
Hi Cristo, Great research and work. Thank you. My question is so that I can gain information from you and not to challenge you. Regarding the 2,300 mornings and evenings at Daniel 8:14, I think I read something from Robert King’s works (not 100% but somewhere) the reason it is worded that way is like saying mornings plus evenings and so the actual number of days referred to there, perhaps may be 1,150 days, which is a bit over 38 months and perhaps that somehow fits inside of the 42 months. Somehow I think the reason it may be short about 3 1/2 years from the 42 months is that there may be some correlation to Jesus preaching to the nation of Israel. He did so for 3 1/2 years but his followers finished up with another 3 1/2 years so that the full 7 years of prophesy that Jehovah had recorded of going only to Israel for either 7 days or 1 week was fulfilled. Is there somehow a parallel or 2nd fulfillment to that? I’m only throwing out bits and pieces because I don’t have a clear picture on this and I hope I am clear on my question.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Another time period that I’d like to see on the chart is the one at Revelation 9:3-5 which speaks of the locusts, which must be the sealed anointed. They are let loose after the 5th trumpet and they are told not to harm the vegetation, green plant or any tree but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. So, this seal is already in place at this time. Then they torment people for 5 months, which coincidentally is almost 1/2 year. Then after that the 6th trumpet is sounded.
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
Another time period that I’d like to see on the chart is the one at Revelation 9:3-5 which speaks of the locusts, which must be the sealed anointed. They are let loose after the 5th trumpet and they are told not to harm the vegetation, green plant or any tree but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. So, this seal is already in place at this time. Then they torment people for 5 months, which coincidentally is almost 1/2 year. Then after that the 6th trumpet is sounded.
And what about the 70 weeks in Daniel... And the one week.

9:24
“There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.

9:27
“And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease. “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”
 
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Cristo

Well-known member
Hi Cristo, Great research and work. Thank you. My question is so that I can gain information from you and not to challenge you. Regarding the 2,300 mornings and evenings at Daniel 8:14, I think I read something from Robert King’s works (not 100% but somewhere) the reason it is worded that way is like saying mornings plus evenings and so the actual number of days referred to there, perhaps may be 1,150 days, which is a bit over 38 months and perhaps that somehow fits inside of the 42 months. Somehow I think the reason it may be short about 3 1/2 years from the 42 months is that there may be some correlation to Jesus preaching to the nation of Israel. He did so for 3 1/2 years but his followers finished up with another 3 1/2 years so that the full 7 years of prophesy that Jehovah had recorded of going only to Israel for either 7 days or 1 week was fulfilled. Is there somehow a parallel or 2nd fulfillment to that? I’m only throwing out bits and pieces because I don’t have a clear picture on this and I hope I am clear on my question.
Thanks, yeah this is all about information for me as well, don't worry about asking questions. Most likely I won't have the answer lol. It will be a team effort kinda thing for sure. This is a foundational chart that can grow and change, an open slate. I know about the 2300 days being cut in half a morning sacrifice and evening sacrifice, and questioned whether to go that way or not. It was really just about acknowledging that scripture, and going from there. I could have just as easily gone the 1150 route, so I intend to look at from both angles.

@LifeLearning Yes, I know there is ALOT missing. Just putting that small chart together took me several several hours lol. As I said to Driven, it is a beginning for which to grow and add. I used Illustrator to make it so it is quite easy to change around, add, delete. To be honest, I'm not all that informed on the 70 weeks, and part of me wonders if that prophecy only applied to Jesus during his time on earth. I just don't have enough info right now and have to research more. There is soooooo much to consider going through these scriptures, but as I said I hope to build on this chart throughout the weeks ahead.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
And what about the 70 weeks in Daniel... And the one week.

9:24
“There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.

9:27
“And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease. “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”
Chortle! Looks though you have fallen down the many scriptural rabbit holes too. We will send down a rope hold tight!
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
And what about the 70 weeks in Daniel... And the one week.

9:24
“There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.

9:27
“And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease. “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”
I have not read up on this for some time but I feel the witnesses got it right with this one. https://e-watchman.com/reader-use-discernment/
I'm terrible with math now! https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003915?q=62+weeks&p=doc#h=16 Yes By Jove! they have it!...Christ came on time after 62 weeks of yrs483 from 455BC When Artaxerxes gave edict to rebuild her. Takes us to 29ce and Christ's baptism then half of last week later He cuts off by His death the law covenant. The remaining 3 and half yrs half week opens up way for us gentiles.......Well done W/T!
 
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MickHewitt

Well-known member
I expect that similar to so much other prophesy, there is a later fulfillment. The WT does not see any of it, at least they are consistent. I don't think it is productive to wonder and guess and question all of it. I do think it is productive to study and ponder it with prayer and thanksgiving.
Ditto!
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Another time period that I’d like to see on the chart is the one at Revelation 9:3-5 which speaks of the locusts, which must be the sealed anointed. They are let loose after the 5th trumpet and they are told not to harm the vegetation, green plant or any tree but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. So, this seal is already in place at this time. Then they torment people for 5 months, which coincidentally is almost 1/2 year. Then after that the 6th trumpet is sounded.
I would like to eventually see that as well, along with the all the trumpets, and bowls and such, however until those things happen in the world, or the two witnesses prophecy as to when they will occur, it will simply be speculation. That does not mean I won't put them on the chart eventually, but just like anything it has to have a start and build from there. I imagine once all is added it will be a bit overwhelming to the eyes, so keeping it as simple as possible can be quite tricky indeed.


I expect that similar to so much other prophesy, there is a later fulfillment. The WT does not see any of it, at least they are consistent. I don't think it is productive to wonder and guess and question all of it. I do think it is productive to study and ponder it with prayer and thanksgiving.
I understand what you are saying LL. So many of the prophecies in the Bible have a second fulfillment, it seems as though this one should as well, and it may. It is certainly on my radar to be looking for one.

Regarding whether it is productive to wonder and guess and question all of it is a very broad statement. Certainly we don't need to wonder/guess/question ALL of it, as many things are quite clear. What is interesting about that statement is that the rank and file witnesses don't wonder, or guess, or question ANY/ALL of what the GB says. Is that productive?

It would seem that balance is the key when it comes to pondering over things unknown in the scriptures, and to wonder, and guess, and question is the very reason Jehovah didn't just tell us point blank what he meant. It leads us to investigate and research, to be as the Beroeans did, and to validate that which we already know, and to also bring us to knew understanding. I agree 100% that it is productive to study and ponder it with prayer and thanksgiving, but isn't that what pondering is? To wonder, guess, and question?
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I would like to eventually see that as well, along with the all the trumpets, and bowls and such, however until those things happen in the world, or the two witnesses prophecy as to when they will occur, it will simply be speculation. That does not mean I won't put them on the chart eventually, but just like anything it has to have a start and build from there. I imagine once all is added it will be a bit overwhelming to the eyes, so keeping it as simple as possible can be quite tricky indeed.



I understand what you are saying LL. So many of the prophecies in the Bible have a second fulfillment, it seems as though this one should as well, and it may. It is certainly on my radar to be looking for one.

Regarding whether it is productive to wonder and guess and question all of it is a very broad statement. Certainly we don't need to wonder/guess/question ALL of it, as many things are quite clear. What is interesting about that statement is that the rank and file witnesses don't wonder, or guess, or question ANY/ALL of what the GB says. Is that productive?

It would seem that balance is the key when it comes to pondering over things unknown in the scriptures, and to wonder, and guess, and question is the very reason Jehovah didn't just tell us point blank what he meant. It leads us to investigate and research, to be as the Beroeans did, and to validate that which we already know, and to also bring us to knew understanding. I agree 100% that it is productive to study and ponder it with prayer and thanksgiving, but isn't that what pondering is? To wonder, guess, and question?
Great points and I agree.
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
It would seem that balance is the key
Agree! And balance requires that we identify the weight of things so that they may be measured and tested. I do not (yet) have the gift of discernment of these things. Not for lack of trying and searching.

That is why I appreciate Robert King's work: He ties things together with reasoning, harmony and building things, but always with scripture leading the way. You do not see Robert jumping on these threads unless he has a lot of conviction and discernment. I think there are times the rest of us jump on with wild ideas rather than the latter.

Cristo: I think it would be good to start this as a new thread in the 'bible questions' heading... , because we are likely to be discussing this for a long time and at this point this thread for "Examining the scriptures Saturday, Sept 17" we have completely hijacked.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
This timeline is a very rough draft and most certainly not to an accurate scale concerning days and years. There are many things that can be adjusted on this timeline. I put in the things that are known to us for sure regarding the 1260 days, however there is no way to know how long the beast suffers the death stroke, nor when the tribulation begins and ends, and many other things. The Red line and that which is attached I feel is solid, everything else is up to interpretation. If you have questions why I put things where they are please ask and I will explain. Hopefully though it can help us to create a more accurate timeline through discussion and sound reasoning God willing. (if you click on image should get bigger)

View attachment 1870

(Da 8:10-12) “. . .And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down. 11 And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 And an army itself was gradually given over, together with the constant [feature], because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success.”

(Da 8:14) “. . .So he said to me: “Until two thousand three hundred evenings [and] mornings; and [the] holy place will certainly be brought into its right condition.””


(Da 12:7) “. . .And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.””


(Da 12:11) “11 “And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

(Da 12:12) “12 “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!”

(Mt 24:7-14) “7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. . .”

(Re 11:11) “. . .And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. . .”

(Re 11:3) “. . .And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”. . .”

(Re 6:1-12) “. . .And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice as of thunder: “Come!” 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest. 3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him. 5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come!” And I saw, and, look! a black horse; and the one seated upon it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a de·nar´i·us, and three quarts of barley for a de·nar´i·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.” 7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come!” 8 And I saw, and, look! a pale horse; and the one seated upon it had the name Death. And Ha´des was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth. 9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been. 12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the entire moon became as blood,”

(Re 8:1-2) “. . .And when he opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in heaven for about a half hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels that stand before God, and seven trumpets were given them.”

(Re 12:13-14) “. . .Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.”

(Re 13:3) “. . .And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. . .”

(Re 13:5) “. . .And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.”
Hey thanks, now I don't have to do it. I wasn't really qualified anyway. :(
 

Cristo

Well-known member

The day of Jehovah begins when Jesus comes alongside the chosen ones, and the 1260 days begin. Even according to your own words you state the same.

"It would appear, then, that “Jehovah’s day” and the “Lord’s day” are the same since the day of the Lord—the parousia—also commences as unexpectedly as a thief coming in the night."

We can know that Jehovah day doesn't begin at the collapse of the United States because the authority for the beast to act, and the authority given to the two witnesses to prophecy for 1260 days, does not occur until after the beast rises from the abyss. We do not know how long the interim will be between the time that the seventh head is wounded(collapse of world reserve currency, the United States), and the beast ascending out of the sea is given authority to act, however it will most certainly not be the same day.

The collapse of the world reserve currency, which will be a unique event for the entire world, but most specifically to the United States and those within, is not the beginning of the "Lords/Jehovahs Day", but rather a milestone within prophecy that is a prelude to the ‘Day of Jehovah’ beginning. The downfall of America may coincide with Satan being ousted from heaven, or happens just prior to the war in heaven, but the collapse of the United States does not commence the 'Lords Day'.

It could be that the crowning of the rider of the white horse signifies this event, when the called and chosen are given authority to prophecy for 1260 days in sackcloth. This authority to preach will be in direct opposition to the now healed beast, who also has been given authority for 42 months to act and war against the holy ones.

“. . .And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” 5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.” Re 13:3-5

Just how I see it.
 
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Cristo

Well-known member
@Watchman. I was hoping you would at least consider what you said in your twitter feed, and reply with some thoughts, ideas, perspectives, anything. When somebody, anybody, throws out the beginning of the 'Day of Jehovah' and when it will begin, especially to the world, it is not a small thing. You have called out the Watchtower for over a decade regarding their false teachings, of which the 'day of Jehovah' being one of the major ones, should you not also be held to the same standards to which you hold them?

Please do not think this has anything to do with our disagreement the other week, I was over that in about 10 minutes after it happened, hopefully you as well. Had that not happened I would still be pressing you on this matter of the beginning of Jehovahs day. I respect your work, and all the time you have put into exposing the Watchtower, and presenting the scriptures through a different lens which you have provided. However, because you have placed yourself in a position of leadership, you too must also be held to a higher standard. Advertising 'Jehovahs Day' is not something that can be presented without expecting some kind of reaction, else, why does anybody do it?

I, and I'm certain many others, would like some clarification of your thoughts on this matter. It is vital that as we near the end times, of which are so very close, that we are clear in our beliefs that are supported on the strength and foundation of the scriptures. Again, I'm certain you agree. The bibles many warnings for us in these coming times are reason enough to be on high alert for things that don't add up to what the scriptures teach. Jesus told us that 'even the chosen ones' may be deceived if possible by those who claim to hold the truth, therefore should I not be concerned when somebody in your position says something that seems to go contrary to what the scriptures say? I'm sorry if you feel like I'm calling you out, but you should be used to it by now if you do. There is a saying "don't climb the mountain, if you don't like the view".
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
@Watchman. I was hoping you would at least consider what you said in your twitter feed, and reply with some thoughts, ideas, perspectives, anything. When somebody, anybody, throws out the beginning of the 'Day of Jehovah' and when it will begin, especially to the world, it is not a small thing. You have called out the Watchtower for over a decade regarding their false teachings, of which the 'day of Jehovah' being one of the major ones, should you not also be held to the same standards to which you hold them?

Please do not think this has anything to do with our disagreement the other week, I was over that in about 10 minutes after it happened, hopefully you as well. Had that not happened I would still be pressing you on this matter of the beginning of Jehovahs day. I respect your work, and all the time you have put into exposing the Watchtower, and presenting the scriptures through a different lens which you have provided. However, because you have placed yourself in a position of leadership, you too must also be held to a higher standard. Advertising 'Jehovahs Day' is not something that can be presented without expecting some kind of reaction, else, why does anybody do it?

I, and I'm certain many others, would like some clarification of your thoughts on this matter. It is vital that as we near the end times, of which are so very close, that we are clear in our beliefs that are supported on the strength and foundation of the scriptures. Again, I'm certain you agree. The bibles many warnings for us in these coming times are reason enough to be on high alert for things that don't add up to what the scriptures teach. Jesus told us that 'even the chosen ones' may be deceived if possible by those who claim to hold the truth, therefore should I not be concerned when somebody in your position says something that seems to go contrary to what the scriptures say? I'm sorry if you feel like I'm calling you out, but you should be used to it by now if you do. There is a saying "don't climb the mountain, if you don't like the view".
I’m really surprised at your nit picking. I didn’t expect this from you. A day is a period of time and I’m pretty sure we are not talking about 24 hours. So, your question does seem to me to be aggressive. I don’t know the answer to your question and now that I started this comment, I have to run, but I would guess what happens during “Jehovah’s Day” takes place over a period of time and actually encompasses more than one event.
 
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