schisms

kirmmy

Well-known member
Who/what is God's organization and how did they/it apostatize?
The organization that God allowed to use his name. You do realize that God does not allow his name to be used by just anyone in this regard or abused, right?

And there are many examples of how they apostazied. UN relations, Child abuse, siding with the beast in regards to the vaccine. Robert has highlighted them on this site...

When you take on that name you take on a heavy responsibility. Jehovah is very jealous of his name. If you're interested in what can happen take a look into the life of Yahweh Ben Yahweh. It didn't end well for him and his BS is no more.

I get it...you don't believe the WBTS is or ever was God's organization. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
BtD it comes down to whether Jesus did 2 thing during the Lord's supper. I believe he did. He instituted a replacement for the passover, a passover that was celebrated by everyone who left Egypt, even the mixed crowd. A passover which every Christian should partake of, IMO. AND he made a Covenant with his Called/Anointed Brothers for a Kingdom.

Again, I'm not going to be dogmatic about it and welcome people telling me I'm wrong and explaining why. I have actually brought this up before as a question and got no takers.

I just think we all need to take very seriously the things we've been taught by God's organization. It's pretty obvious they apostasized a long while ago and are no longer interested in exploring the deeper things of God. IMO, it's vital we examine this teaching of theirs because of this very scripture:

Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Jonh 6:53.

Where is the flesh and blood presented?

He didn't say "you will have no Kingdom inheritance in you". He said life. Just like the passover.
Are you referring to participation for all in the emblems? It’s a very pertinent question to be sure. I view the Passover as separate in that Jesus fulfilled that, and then instituted to that ceremony an applicable meaning to the anointed who would form a union with him in the greater fulfilment in heaven. I always assumed that the Passover was fulfilled in the sacrifice and that it was the remembrance of that fulfilment that gives rise to those chosen who inherit the kingdom.

To that end, I see “eating his flesh and drinking of his blood” to be acceptance of his sacrifice. I do not see it as being invited to join him in heaven and feel that the object was for those they’re gathered I.e., those chosen to be with him. Personally, I have never felt compelled to part-take. The biblical explanation seems applicable to me and my circumstance. Just as the eating of flesh and drinking of blood is symbolic, so to me is the symbolism of metaphorically taking of the blood and flesh by adjusting my thinking to appreciate the gift of love and a place upon the earth, and to live the essence of life as it was meant to be enjoyed. I feel no compunction to participate in the symbolism of heavenly acceptance. Surely, I would if that is my destiny? What I do feel is a compulsion to “dig the garden” so to speak.

This appears very much to me as much the same thing as the anointed appreciate - to occupy the place appointed for us. Symbolism is not an end in itself. It simply points the way. I try to “eat and drink” the Spirit in its true meaning, ergo to make “holiness” my way of life because I feel and believe in its essence. I value it. I want to be that way. That is what I want to desire - “miserable man that I am.”

Also, there is something else that compels me to see a division between those taking the emblems and those not doing so in that, at the time, Jesus said (of the Passover that he had come to fulfil) “Do this also in remembrance of me”. I do not recall any written response to that charge, but certainly it did not ring a bell with the apostles until they were anointed later, some forty days hence. They were anointed at that time and as Paul later noted, his attitude had changed to a heavenly hope. I certainly do not have that hope. Thus for me, I see the point, not the the outcome in part-taking. I do not even have anyone to observe with! It all seems boiled down to the heart in these days. Baptism was enough for me. Is the commitment not similar? I cannot assume more in my own behalf.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Are you referring to participation for all in the emblems?
Yes, I've come to believe that. Christ is our passover. 1 Cor 5:7 He instituted the evening meal as a passover celebration for his followers. They continue doing this as a remembrance until he arrives. Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:26 It seems it's more than symbolic.
I do not see it as being invited to join him in heaven and feel that the object was for those they’re gathered I.e., those chosen to be with him. Personally, I have never felt compelled to part-take.
One may not have anything to do with the other. The called/anointed know who they are. As I said, Christ may have been talking about two different things on the night of the last supper. The new passover arrangement and the covenant for a Kingdom with his disciples. I have no desire or calling to the heavens BUT I do want to be careful to follow Christ's instructions.
Just as the eating of flesh and drinking of blood is symbolic, so to me is the symbolism of metaphorically taking of the blood and flesh by adjusting my thinking to appreciate the gift of love and a place upon the earth, and to live the essence of life as it was meant to be enjoyed.
If it's symbolic, then why do the anointed partake. There is a physical aspect to this that we all have to examine.
Also, there is something else that compels me to see a division between those taking the emblems and those not doing so in that, at the time, Jesus said (of the Passover that he had come to fulfil) “Do this also in remembrance of me”. I do not recall any written response to that charge, but certainly it did not ring a bell with the apostles until they were anointed later, some forty days hence. They were anointed at that time and as Paul later noted, his attitude had changed to a heavenly hope. I certainly do not have that hope. Thus for me, I see the point, not the the outcome in part-taking. I do not even have anyone to observe with! It all seems boiled down to the heart in these days. Baptism was enough for me. Is the commitment not similar? I cannot assume more in my own behalf.
Yes but if Jesus very literally meant “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. John 6:53. and that obviously points to the evening meal where the flesh and blood of the Christ are symbolically shared...then we'd be very careful to note what that means to everyone.

In any case, we all must examine the scriptures carefully and come to our own conclusions with the Holy Spirit. I'm in no way advocating for anyone to do this. I'm saying examine carefully and come to your own conclusion.

It's not like these ideas originate with me, I've cited where I got the ideas from and they make more sense than the stuff we've been taught by the WBTS for many years.
 

Frank D

Well-known member
I get it...you don't believe the WBTS is or ever was God's organization. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
It is not the case of me believing that or not. It's should any just believe someone that says such even though they have no Scriptural basis for doing so.
The organization that God allowed to use his name.
How do you know he allowed it?
If there are any others out there that use the name Jehovah or Yahweh, do you feel he is allowing it and therefore they too must be his organization?
In the 1930's when WTS took on that name, were the WTS teachings so acceptable to Jehovah that he was pleased with them and said I allow my name to be used by you?

And there are many examples of how they apostazied. UN relations, Child abuse, siding with the beast in regards to the vaccine.
So, all other religions that are NGO's of the UN, have CSA, and supported taking the vaccine, apostatized too?

When/why and how did the WTS become God's organization being that you believe it did/is?

What is your definition of 'apostatized' in your claiming the WTS has done so?
 

Proverbs 14 v 15

Well-known member
What was the 1st century example? Groups of people meeting in their homes, studying and applying the scriptures and preaching. There were overseers but they were better know as caretakers to the congregation. Not the WBTS abominations we see today. The traveling apostles kept an eye on things, taught and advised. The "governing body" (Where did they get that term?!) were caretakers for the congregations, teaching and making sure that widows and orphans were provided for through common funds.

Contrast what Paul said at 1 Cor 1:24: "Not that we’re the masters of your faith – rather, we’re [just] your cheerful helpers[Syr]. Indeed, you stand upon [your own] faith."

Imagine the GB saying anything like that today?! They are masters! And of more than just the R&F's faith.

The modern WBTS is a perversion of this example...as much as they think it's Biblical.

I don't look to men as masters and I don't look to RK that way either, but I can say that he fits 1 Cor 1:24 way, way better than the superfine apostles of the WBTS. He teaches, advises, but doesn't try to maintain iron-fisted control. There are many convos on here about the most bizarre stuff and he will put in his two cents sometimes but won't try and shut down a convo just because he doesn't agree with it. This is the height of maturity and shows patience and humility. Of course there are limits to that and he's pretty good at drawing the line when it's appropriate, IMO. Of course everything I've said is IMO...

Saying all this, what fits the 1st century example better? The WBTS or our little group here?

P.S. Who knows how many more groups there are around the world like this, whether it's meeting in person or digitally? Jah may actually keep it this way right through the end. It may be better that way to protect his sheep. Who knows?
Yes, it's interesting to wonder how many little groups there are like this. I was in a little group on telegram for a couple of years, there were 10 of us from the UK, US and Canada. It was great. But the other day telegram wanted me to verify that the number I used to set the telegram app up was still mine, it wasn't, it was an old number that I got rid of about a year or so ago. So unfortunately, I couldn't verify and so lost all my telegram groups 🙄 then I found this one 😁
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
It is not the case of me believing that or not. It's should any just believe someone that says such even though they have no Scriptural basis for doing so.
1) Who's been teaching that the Trinity is BS, you don't have an immortal soul, the truth about hellfire, that God's name is Jehovah and the holiness behind that name, etc, etc, etc? And who has been bringing those true teachings from the Bible to peoples' own doorsteps for over 100 years? Who's been publishing uncountable amounts of spiritual food that teach those truths and make sure the Bible is published in many, many languages and distributed far and wide? It ain't the Mormons, I can tell you that. As far as the WBTS has fallen, at one time they did a lot of good in Jehovah's name. He allowed them to use the name or they would have ended up at a dead end. Now regarding "how far the WBTS has fallen"...

2) Many prophecies would make no sense at all unless God had an org during the end times. You've read RK's writings, right? There are types and anti-types all over the Bible regarding his organization. Granted, the Anti-types require a bit of interpretation but it seems that is how Jehovah rolls, so to speak. I could go on with example after example but I won't...I'm not writing a book here... It just fits for me but I guess not for you... BTW, are you a preterist?

3) Again, Jehovah named himself. He said he was jealous of his name and he wouldn't allow it to be used in a worthless way. Did you look up Yahweh Ben Yahweh? He has and will destroy all those who take it up in a worthless way. That's how we can tie point 1 and 2 together. He will destroy the WBTS for what they've done to that name in the last 40 or so years. Slowly at first...and then suddenly, as they say.
How do you know he allowed it?
If they are any others out there use the name Jehovah or Yahweh, do you feel he is allowing it and therefore they too must be his organization?
In the 1930's when WTS took on that name, were the WTS teachings so acceptable to Jehovah that he was pleased with them and said I allow my name to be used by you?
See above.
So, all other religions that are NGO's of the UN, have CSA, and supported taking the vaccine, apostatized too?

When/why and how did the WTS become God's organization being that you believe it did/is?

What is your definition of 'apostatized' in your claiming the WTS has done?
Come on. Really? The other religious NGOs you mentioned don't use God's name and don't teach his truth from the Bible. You can't apostatize from what you don't know.

The WBTS became God's organization when they began to look to him as the one and only ruler of the universe, took a study of the Bible very seriously and began to apply it, and took God's Holy Name on to themselves. He allowed it as I've discussed.

The WBTS apostatized when they joined the UN as an NGO...you know, like the ones you mentioned above. Then they apostatized some more when they allowed the child sexual abuse and tried to cover it over. They certainly didn't follow James' advice about orphans and widows, did they? And they continue to "stand away" from Jehovah in much of what they do.

Anyway, that's my version of reality and I'm sticking to it. Jehovah is the judge of all and will clear things up as he brings this clown show to an end. I'm probably not even going to be around to see it but, if granted a resurrection, I know he will clear all things up for his people.

Honestly Frank, I wonder why you remain here if you believe what you believe. This site should be a joke to you... And not saying you aren't welcome. As far as I can say on a site that isn't mine, I welcome all...well maybe not that one guy who will go nameless...but anyhow... :)
 
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Frank D

Well-known member
In the 1930's when WTS took on that name, were the WTS teachings acceptable to Jehovah that he was pleased with them and said I allow my name to be used by you, I choose you to be my organization?

What is your definition of 'apostatized' in your claiming the WTS has done so?
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Frank you are throwing out the baby in the bathwater when you do not acknowledge that there was TRUTH within the WTS. Where does that truth come from?

The only reason the WTS knew that truth was because God allowed them to know it. Do you see this? The only way the WTS could have possibly known the things they taught to others, were because Jehovah gave it to them to understand. The same way the apostles only KNEW that Jesus was the son of God, because it was given them by Jehovah. He allowed them to KNOW!!!

(Mt 16:15-17) “. . .He said to them: “YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?” 16 In answer Simon Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jo′nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did.”​

There is no other way in which one can acquire truth unless it comes from Jehovah and then he allows them to understand or grasp the things being given through the holy spirit, when he reveals that truth to them.

You continually misrepresent the truth regarding this very fact when you state that the WTS is the same as all other religions. Until you acknowledge that the WTS had truth, and that this truth was a direct result of Jehovah allowing them to understand it, your argument will have that glaring flaw. You cannot build anything on a flawed argument that will stand on its own.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
In the 1930's when WTS took on that name, were the WTS teachings acceptable to Jehovah that he was pleased with them and said I allow my name to be used by you, I choose you to be my organization?

What is your definition of 'apostatized' in your claiming the WTS has done so?
In ancient times Jehovah placed his name upon the city of Jerusalem. There was no other city or organization with which he was associated. And yet the very king who built Jehovah's temple and even wrote a few books in the Bible became an apostate. Apostasy is a condition of the heart. Even though an apostate may try to disguise himself or suppress his disdain for truth or his faithlessness, his contempt for Jehovah will eventually express itself. That is what has happened to the Watchtower
 

Still Here

Active member
Let's see if I can upset 3 people at once. I think I can. Kirmmy, Frank D, Cristo, you should start an Abbott and Costello routine. You all are right in certain aspects, but consider this. If 3 aid workers are getting 1 duck each out of the oil contaminated water, why argue about which one has more oil on their bodies? This one has more on its beak and is eating some, this one it's in it's eyes, this one it's on it's wings. So what? They are all suffering. The apostasy started right after Jesus' death. Now we are grading which one is worse? I like all of you and your comments, but if God drew us near, regardless of the vehicle used, we of good heart are going to find that path.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Yes, I've come to believe that. Christ is our passover. 1 Cor 5:7 He instituted the evening meal as a passover celebration for his followers. They continue doing this as a remembrance until he arrives. Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:26 It seems it's more than symbolic.

One may not have anything to do with the other. The called/anointed know who they are. As I said, Christ may have been talking about two different things on the night of the last supper. The new passover arrangement and the covenant for a Kingdom with his disciples. I have no desire or calling to the heavens BUT I do want to be careful to follow Christ's instructions.

If it's symbolic, then why do the anointed partake. There is a physical aspect to this that we all have to examine.

Yes but if Jesus very literally meant “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. John 6:53. and that obviously points to the evening meal where the flesh and blood of the Christ are symbolically shared...then we'd be very careful to note what that means to everyone.

In any case, we all must examine the scriptures carefully and come to our own conclusions with the Holy Spirit. I'm in no way advocating for anyone to do this. I'm saying examine carefully and come to your own conclusion.

It's not like these ideas originate with me, I've cited where I got the ideas from and they make more sense than the stuff we've been taught by the WBTS for many years.
Yes I can understand your reasoning on part-taking. I refer to it as symbolic, simply because Christ also referred to it that way because he said to his followers the same way about drinking his blood and eating his flesh and they turned away in revulsion and left him. To his disciples he said the same but the replied where would we go? Clearly the meaning was not literal to them, but though the could not understand, they were content for the meaning to be revealed to them. To me then also, I see it as symbolic.

In my thinking, there are two prongs to this. The last thing we would do is drink blood because life is in it and that belongs to Jehovah alone. I don’t think there is any mystery in that! But so also the ceremony is symbolic of the Union between Christ and his brothers. Clearly there is meaning in that because not all can share with it. Christ also said that he would not take of it again (specifically to the anointed - there was no other class present) - until he did so in his kingdom. I do not have that hope. Thus because of the exclusivity of the assembly at the Passover I cannot assume the invitation was made to me. Even if Judas was there at the time of the sharing of bread and wine, - as has been argued - that illustrates to me the equality with Satan whom also gave up in exactitude, the very same that Judas had at that point. It does not indicate to me any equality that Judas may have had with the great crowd at that time. Quite the opposite as Jesus pointed out, that it would have been better for him if Judas had not been born.

Of course then, the ceremony is symbolic, but so is the prophesy we rely on for fact, so as you rightly point out we must search the scriptures for our belief. But only the spirit can provide commitment in faith but the pathway to that is the context that provides clarity. I cannot boast any insight into that unfortunately and even for some who claim anointing, cannot always be sure - though I have ever only known one renounce his claim. And of those that are certain, they are not always called. I must admit I have great problems with ambiguity and I do not ever hope to gain the required insight into this. It is one of the reasons why I rely on teaching from others, and my absolute faith in creation. I just do not feel worthy of taking the wine and bread though I recognise the meaning behind it. My faith is not stirred in prophesy or ceremony but in the reasonableness of the scripture, it’s descriptions of the attributes of Jehovah, it’s honesty of spirit in the natural love of life and its outstanding qualities. These matters of observance: I heed them when I can understand them in their context, but for me, faith is in the living of it, the righteousness of it, the love of it, the brother and sisterhood, the creative and the peace, the beauty and the glory of the creator and that silent voice - do you hear it??….that we recognise. Every day is Passover for me in everything I try to do (and fail at, miserable man that I am) to emulate that. The rest I cannot as yet understand. I have too many loose wires! I’m not sure we should do anything in this regard unless we know it is desired of us, unless we can “hear the voice“ in it. I do not refer to courage, but to wisdom. I think if Jehovah wants us, He has His ways of making Himself known. I shall bear in mind what you say for a later day kirmmy.
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Let's see if I can upset 3 people at once. I think I can. Kirmmy, Frank D, Cristo, you should start an Abbott and Costello routine. You all are right in certain aspects, but consider this. If 3 aid workers are getting 1 duck each out of the oil contaminated water, why argue about which one has more oil on their bodies? This one has more on its beak and is eating some, this one it's in it's eyes, this one it's on it's wings. So what? They are all suffering. The apostasy started right after Jesus' death. Now we are grading which one is worse? I like all of you and your comments, but if God drew us near, regardless of the vehicle used, we of good heart are going to find that path.
Without the others how would we possibly know if the oil was somewhere we couldn't see?

Didn't upset me, rather made me question the point of your post tbh. This is a forum, and we discuss things, debate things, disagree on things, help others see the oil on their back and vice versa kinda things.

I would suggest you pick one and provide your input and reasonings. Tell us if the oil is still there or not...or if you have insight how to get it off.
 

Still Here

Active member
Without the others how would we possibly know if the oil was somewhere we couldn't see?

Didn't upset me, rather made me question the point of your post tbh. This is a forum, and we discuss things, debate things, disagree on things, help others see the oil on their back and vice versa kinda things.

I would suggest you pick one and provide your input and reasonings. Tell us if the oil is still there or not...or if you have insight how to get it off.
My bad. I wasn't clear enough. It isn't the ducks going back and forth, it's the aid workers discussing who has the worse/better duck. All the ducks are contaminated.
 

alan ford

Well-known member
So what's actually the point here? If WT is God's org and it went into apostasy and will be judged, how is that different from all other religions who apostasized and will also be judged? Not all of those are trinitarian either... It doesn't make sense, unless the hope is that it will somehow be cleansed and survive.
Imo, it will be individuals who form the great crowd during the GT, who will be God's people and who will perform the true worship. Saying that God is associated with WT is pretty much saying that Isaiah 2:2 is fulfilled in them imo. Jews were the people who Jehovah was associated with until Jesus came, when that arrangement was done away with. First century Christians were congregations led by holy spirit, not a centralized entity led by men. God's people today (and those who have that potential) are not constrained to geographic location or a denomination. God's people are those who worship him in spirit and in truth.
 

alan ford

Well-known member
Another point to consider: which of Jewish "denominations" was God's chosen one? There were Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots, and so on, which were part of the people where Jehovah placed his name and who had vastly different interpretations of scriptures.
 

Still Here

Active member
Another point to consider: which of Jewish "denominations" was God's chosen one? There were Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots, and so on, which were part of the people where Jehovah placed his name and who had vastly different interpretations of scriptures.
That's easy. None of those groups mentioned were Israelites. Not sure about the Zealots. 2 Kings 17
 
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Cristo

Well-known member
So what's actually the point here? If WT is God's org and it went into apostasy and will be judged, how is that different from all other religions who apostasized and will also be judged? Not all of those are trinitarian either... It doesn't make sense, unless the hope is that it will somehow be cleansed and survive.
Imo, it will be individuals who form the great crowd during the GT, who will be God's people and who will perform the true worship. Saying that God is associated with WT is pretty much saying that Isaiah 2:2 is fulfilled in them imo. Jews were the people who Jehovah was associated with until Jesus came, when that arrangement was done away with. First century Christians were congregations led by holy spirit, not a centralized entity led by men. God's people today (and those who have that potential) are not constrained to geographic location or a denomination. God's people are those who worship him in spirit and in truth.
When did other religions have any truth? When did any of the other religions worship Jehovah(specifically) in spirit and truth? You also are throwing the baby out with the bathwater with your reasoning.

If all you and Frank see is the bad that have stemmed from the WTS, you will never understand the reasonings that are presented when we discuss the things about it. Before you can change our minds, you must first understand the position clearly from where we stand, and acknowledge that there was truth and spirit within the organization.
Another point to consider: which of Jewish "denominations" was God's chosen one? There were Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots, and so on, which were part of the people where Jehovah placed his name.
Perfect example of what I speak of. Did Jehovah throw out the baby from the bathwater because his nation had false beliefs within it? No, he tried to save them. He gave them everything they needed to change their minds, as he has also done with the WT. The warnings by Paul are quite clear, and for those who are staying awake, are enough for them to see the writing on the wall. Just as the Jerusalem was destroyed so too will the WTS. Only those who are spiritually awake will see this and flee to the mountains...
 

alan ford

Well-known member
When did other religions have any truth? When did any of the other religions worship Jehovah(specifically) in spirit and truth? You also are throwing the baby out with the bathwater with your reasoning.

If all you and Frank see is the bad that have stemmed from the WTS, you will never understand the reasonings that are presented when we discuss the things about it. Before you can change our minds, you must first understand the position clearly from where we stand, and acknowledge that there was truth and spirit within the organization.

Perfect example of what I speak of. Did Jehovah throw out the baby from the bathwater because his nation had false beliefs within it? No, he tried to save them. He gave them everything they needed to change their minds, as he has also done with the WT. The warnings by Paul are quite clear, and for those who are staying awake, are enough for them to see the writing on the wall. Just as the Jerusalem was destroyed so too will the WTS. Only those who are spiritually awake will see this and flee to the mountains...
My point is that ultimately, it was those who believed and followed Jesus who matter. Jesus was (and still is) a perfect representation of Jehovah (Col. 2:9). My reasoning is, that it's not about "having" truth, but "being in" truth, and we all know that Jesus said about himself that he is the truth (and the way and the life). So, all those who strive to conform to his image can be said to be in truth.

Edit: I don't see it as all bad, I'm just reasoning that just because the org uses God's name doesn't mean that they were chosen by him.

Edit 2: Will the basis of judgment be what people believed until the GT or whether they put faith in Jesus when the 2 witnesses pave the way for him, and accept him at his subsequent arrival?
 
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Carl

Well-known member
Whether the WT is officially Jehovah's organization or not isn't my concern. Back when the Israelites were leaving Egypt, there were non-Israelites in the promised land who worshipped Jehovah. Balaam spoke to Him, and I'm sure others worshipped him as well... but Jehovah choose Jacob because he had Judah in mind to bring forth Jesus. Other than that, they were just as sinful as any other group. Heck, Jacob was a deceitful man and Rachel worshipped idols. Today most of us here believe the WT is the modern day equivalent of the Israelite system, and we ALL know it's FAR from perfect! Its main mission has been to bring forth the truth about the 144,000, and no other organization has done that.

The same goes for the question of who the slave is. When Jesus returns, he'll judge the slave... so when is the appointment? I agree with Robert, the appointment started when the idea of the 2 class system started, back around the time of the original Bible Students. Since then the appointment has been a personal matter between Jehovah and the individual. Those who feel they're anointed must also know they're being judged a little more than those who don't feel called. Are they right, have they been called? I don't know. If I'm called, then I'll know. I suppose that if someone believes they've been called, they better live it! Otherwise, when Jesus returns he's going to tell them "I don't know you."
 
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