Sunday, August 2 2026 The Ends of the Systems

[PJ54]

​

Sunday, August 2 2026​

Christ is the end of the Law.—Rom. 10:4.

We learn a valuable lesson from what the apostle Paul wrote to the Hebrew Christians. Some had not continued to grow spiritually; they had actually “gone back to needing milk, not solid [spiritual] food.” (Heb. 5:12) They had failed to keep up with the truth, which was being progressively revealed through the congregation. (Prov. 4:18) For example, many Jewish believers were still promoting the Mosaic Law even though some 30 years earlier the Law had been done away with on the basis of Christ’s sacrifice. (Titus 1:10) Anyone who has read Paul’s inspired letter to the Hebrews can confirm that this book contains solid spiritual food. It was just what those Christians needed to strengthen their faith in the superiority of the Christian arrangement for worship and to give them the courage to keep preaching.—Heb. 10:19-23. w24.04 6 ¶15
Examining the Scriptures Daily—2026​

Examining the Scriptures Daily Commentary Archive for March 2024

. “Be dressed and ready and have your lamps burning, and you should be like men waiting for their master to return from the marriage, so when he comes and knocks, they may at once open to him.” – Luke 12:35-36

e-watchman.com

The Ends of the Systems​

Saturday, March 16 – Put on . . . the hope of salvation as a helmet.—1 Thess. 5:8.
A soldier wears a helmet to protect his head. In our spiritual warfare, we need to protect our mind from Satan’s attacks. He bombards us with temptations and ideas designed to corrupt our thinking. Just as the helmet protects a soldier’s head, our hope protects our thinking so that we can remain faithful to Jehovah. If our hope weakens and we allow fleshly thinking to take hold of our mind, we can lose sight of the goal of everlasting life. Consider the case of some Christians living in ancient Corinth. They lost faith in a key promise of God—the hope of the resurrection. (1 Cor. 15:12) Paul argued that people with no hope of a future life live only for the present. (1 Cor. 15:32) Today many who have no hope in God’s promises live for the moment, grasping whatever pleasures are available to them. We, however, put our trust in the future promised by God. w22.10 25-26 ¶8-9

The first books of the Bible are the oldest documents in the world. Throughout the 1,500-year history of Israel, more writings were added; namely, the Prophets and Psalms, etc.; culminating in the first century with the addition of the Christian Greek Scriptures and Revelation. It is amazing to contemplate, but the Bible was written and preserved down through the ages, now translated into virtually every language of mankind, specifically for those who will be alive when Jesus returns. To be sure, the return of Christ is not the end of it all, but a beginning of the end. For example, Paul wrote concerning all of the historical examples of the bad outcomes for those who rebelled against God, saying: “Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.” – 1 Corinthians 10:11

True, in the first century the Jewish system was coming to an abrupt end; but notice, that Paul spoke of a plurality of “ends” and multiple “systems.” Most translations likewise use plurals, such as “ends of the ages,” or similar expressions. That there are multiple ends of systems and two manifestations of Christ Paul made clear in his writing to the Hebrews: “But now he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to do away with sin through the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this to receive a judgment, so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.” – Hebrews 9:26-28

Although a book for the ages, it was written primarily for those who will be alive the second time he appears. Was Jesus invisible the first time that he appeared? It is a silly question, isn’t it? Was Jesus seen and perceived as the Savior by those earnestly looking for the Messiah in the first century? Of course. Did Jesus visibly manifest himself to his disciples after he was resurrected as a spirit? Absolutely! So, why is it that the Explainers of all things biblical speak of an invisible presence the second time he appears?

Oddly, the notion of an invisible parousia was regarded as an unassailable truth from the very beginning of the Bible Student movement when they were endeavoring to discern the basic, elementary doctrines. And yet they supposedly understood the deep and hidden things of Christ’s return? I thought the light was supposed to get brighter and brighter. In all this time Jehovah’s Witnesses have never questioned the veracity of Russell’s invisible parousia doctrine.

But what does this have to do with the daily text? Being written to those who would be living the second time he appears God has given us a sign so we will know when the Christian system is concluding and what will come next. We will not need anyone to explain to us what the sign means. The sons of light will know what it means, light their lamps, and go out to meet him. What sign has God provided? The prophet Paul explains: “Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.” – 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

It is a familiar passage for Jehovah’s Witnesses. But what does it mean? The Watchtower claims that “sudden destruction” will come upon Babylon the Great during the tribulation, which will segue into Armageddon. But the Watchtower is wrong. And when their error is manifest it will be plain for all to see. First, as I have discussed in other articles (below), it is quite likely that Paul did not use YHWH in the text, but wrote concerning the Lord’s day. That presents an enormous problem for the Explainers because they say the Lord’s day has already begun, more than 100 years ago! As regards the ends of the systems, the New World Translation does provide a useful footnote.

Rendering of the Greek word ai·onʹ when it refers to the current state of affairs or to features that distinguish a certain period of time, epoch, or age. The Bible speaks of “the present system of things,” referring to the prevailing state of affairs in the world in general and the worldly way of life. (2Ti 4:10) By means of the Law covenant, God introduced a system of things that some might call the Israelite or Jewish epoch. By means of his ransom sacrifice, Jesus Christ was used by God to introduce a different system of things, one primarily involving the congregation of anointed Christians. This marked the beginning of a new epoch, characterized by the realities foreshadowed by the Law covenant. When in the plural, this phrase refers to the various systems of things, or prevailing states of affairs, that have existed or will exist.

The conclusion of the systems (plural) is the end of the Christian era, the end of the age of evangelism and disciple-making. It is also the end of the prevailing state of affairs among nations. It will spell the end of Jesus using the rulers of Satan’s world to further his work. Jesus is, after all, King of kings and Lord of lords. He has not been idly sitting at his Father’s right hand watching the clouds float by. The end of the age will be the end of the superior authorities serving as God’s civil ministers. Satan will become the unrestrained god of the post-current state of affairs system, a system decreed to last for one hour, equivalent to 42 months.

So, whenever they are saying peace and security will cause the sudden destruction of the present ordering of nations along with the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. To be sure, it will mean the end of the Anglo-American-dominated nation-state system, freedom, representative democracy, capitalism, stock dividends, carefreeness, baseball, apple pie, and all of that. Did not Jesus say he was coming as a thief in the night at a time even his own disciples think to be unlikely? That is why Paul said that you need nothing to be written to you about the Lord’s day coming as a thief in the night because the Lord already said he is coming as a thief in the night. Get it?

When the Lord’s day begins the sons of light will not need to wait for life-saving instructions from men who have been proclaiming the Lord’s day has begun for the past century. Nor will they believe the lying claims of the false prophets that Jesus is in the inner chambers or out in the wilderness. That is because the second time he appears he will be seen by those earnestly seeking him.

Again, what does any of this have to do with the daily text? Nothing. It is just that I flipped to the chapter to read the cited verse in context and went off on a tangent. Sorry.

 

[MickHewitt]

But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves

How could we of either hope heavenly or great crowd not but view this scripture a most profound personal undeserved honour. And do everything to show our gratitude by continuing to pass on these Holy truths by prayer and all manor of stealth to our siblings.

 

[a believer]

We learn a valuable lesson from what the apostle Paul wrote to the Hebrew Christians. Some had not continued to grow spiritually; they had actually “gone back to needing milk, not solid [spiritual] food.” (Heb. 5:12)

Ouch! What does this say or indicate in regards to the [dumbing down] of the literature and study materials that the brothers and sisters count on today for their nourishment from the organization, compared with twenty or thirty years ago? Why has the organization moved from meat to milk?

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Ouch! What does this say or indicate in regards to the [dumbing down] of the literature and study materials that the brothers and sisters count on today for their nourishment from the organization, compared with twenty or thirty years ago? Why has the organization moved from meat to milk?

—Timothy,
a believer.

This is very true. I find it increasingly so when I look at the daily text. “A soldier wears a helmet - we need to protect ourselves against Satan’s attacks”. Watchtower dramatise everything. I have never needed satan to attack me - I can think of plenty of instances where my own desires take precedence over what I know is right and proper. It’s all my memory seems to berate with me with these days. These “Satan’s attacks” are nothing of the sort but the meanderings of the mind upon desires of the heart. Self discipline is required and for that, one needs to search for Jehovah.

Had watchtower continued the search for Jehovah back in the day to allow His reality to shape their understanding, and continued it with pertinent, searching questions about understanding the reasoning of these significant chronological, moral and obligatory spiritual questions in context with the “times” instead of faffing about with beards, pantaloons for women and money for ice-cream, booze, CSA, untied nations libraries and film sets, they might not now be facing such impending judgement. I really would like to understand what they actually do with their day. All those popes in one office - what do they do with their daily conclave ?

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Examining the Scriptures Daily Commentary Archive for March 2024

. “Be dressed and ready and have your lamps burning, and you should be like men waiting for their master to return from the marriage, so when he comes and knocks, they may at once open to him.” – Luke 12:35-36

e-watchman.com

The Ends of the Systems​

The first books of the Bible are the oldest documents in the world. Throughout the 1,500-year history of Israel, more writings were added; namely, the Prophets and Psalms, etc.; culminating in the first century with the addition of the Christian Greek Scriptures and Revelation. It is amazing to contemplate, but the Bible was written and preserved down through the ages, now translated into virtually every language of mankind, specifically for those who will be alive when Jesus returns. To be sure, the return of Christ is not the end of it all, but a beginning of the end. For example, Paul wrote concerning all of the historical examples of the bad outcomes for those who rebelled against God, saying: “Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.” – 1 Corinthians 10:11

True, in the first century the Jewish system was coming to an abrupt end; but notice, that Paul spoke of a plurality of “ends” and multiple “systems.” Most translations likewise use plurals, such as “ends of the ages,” or similar expressions. That there are multiple ends of systems and two manifestations of Christ Paul made clear in his writing to the Hebrews: “But now he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to do away with sin through the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this to receive a judgment, so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.” – Hebrews 9:26-28

Although a book for the ages, it was written primarily for those who will be alive the second time he appears. Was Jesus invisible the first time that he appeared? It is a silly question, isn’t it? Was Jesus seen and perceived as the Savior by those earnestly looking for the Messiah in the first century? Of course. Did Jesus visibly manifest himself to his disciples after he was resurrected as a spirit? Absolutely! So, why is it that the Explainers of all things biblical speak of an invisible presence the second time he appears?

Oddly, the notion of an invisible parousia was regarded as an unassailable truth from the very beginning of the Bible Student movement when they were endeavoring to discern the basic, elementary doctrines. And yet they supposedly understood the deep and hidden things of Christ’s return? I thought the light was supposed to get brighter and brighter. In all this time Jehovah’s Witnesses have never questioned the veracity of Russell’s invisible parousia doctrine.

But what does this have to do with the daily text? Being written to those who would be living the second time he appears God has given us a sign so we will know when the Christian system is concluding and what will come next. We will not need anyone to explain to us what the sign means. The sons of light will know what it means, light their lamps, and go out to meet him. What sign has God provided? The prophet Paul explains: “Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.” – 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

It is a familiar passage for Jehovah’s Witnesses. But what does it mean? The Watchtower claims that “sudden destruction” will come upon Babylon the Great during the tribulation, which will segue into Armageddon. But the Watchtower is wrong. And when their error is manifest it will be plain for all to see. First, as I have discussed in other articles (below), it is quite likely that Paul did not use YHWH in the text, but wrote concerning the Lord’s day. That presents an enormous problem for the Explainers because they say the Lord’s day has already begun, more than 100 years ago! As regards the ends of the systems, the New World Translation does provide a useful footnote.


The conclusion of the systems (plural) is the end of the Christian era, the end of the age of evangelism and disciple-making. It is also the end of the prevailing state of affairs among nations. It will spell the end of Jesus using the rulers of Satan’s world to further his work. Jesus is, after all, King of kings and Lord of lords. He has not been idly sitting at his Father’s right hand watching the clouds float by. The end of the age will be the end of the superior authorities serving as God’s civil ministers. Satan will become the unrestrained god of the post-current state of affairs system, a system decreed to last for one hour, equivalent to 42 months.

So, whenever they are saying peace and security will cause the sudden destruction of the present ordering of nations along with the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. To be sure, it will mean the end of the Anglo-American-dominated nation-state system, freedom, representative democracy, capitalism, stock dividends, carefreeness, baseball, apple pie, and all of that. Did not Jesus say he was coming as a thief in the night at a time even his own disciples think to be unlikely? That is why Paul said that you need nothing to be written to you about the Lord’s day coming as a thief in the night because the Lord already said he is coming as a thief in the night. Get it?

When the Lord’s day begins the sons of light will not need to wait for life-saving instructions from men who have been proclaiming the Lord’s day has begun for the past century. Nor will they believe the lying claims of the false prophets that Jesus is in the inner chambers or out in the wilderness. That is because the second time he appears he will be seen by those earnestly seeking him.

Again, what does any of this have to do with the daily text? Nothing. It is just that I flipped to the chapter to read the cited verse in context and went off on a tangent. Sorry.

An interesting tangent to be sure. Very equilateral of you to square up to the circumference encircling the equation to hand!

 

[PJ54]

Ouch! What does this say or indicate in regards to the [dumbing down] of the literature and study materials that the brothers and sisters count on today for their nourishment from the organization, compared with twenty or thirty years ago? Why has the organization moved from meat to milk?

—Timothy,
a believer.

No doubt it's deliberate. I understand having simplified editions for those who need it but, to hold everybody else back to the lowest common denominator is not fair either. You can expect this in christendom, but to see it in the organization means there's an agenda at hand.

 

[Patricia]

No doubt it's deliberate. I understand having simplified editions for those who need it but, to hold everybody else back to the lowest common denominator is not fair either. You can expect this in christendom, but to see it in the organization means there's an agenda at hand.

Diversity, equity and inclusion in every aspect of life

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Ouch! What does this say or indicate in regards to the [dumbing down] of the literature and study materials that the brothers and sisters count on today for their nourishment from the organization, compared with twenty or thirty years ago? Why has the organization moved from meat to milk?

—Timothy,
a believer.

That’s obvious!!! Watchtower are into ‘additives’: artificial flavours, lab-grown (bethel grown) ‘meat’ substitutes, and plenty of artificial ‘sweeteners’, low calorie, skimmed coconut milk and ‘two generations for the price of one’ offers. All this given free with bethel ‘food stamps’.

 

[a believer]

That’s obvious!!! Watchtower are into ‘additives’: artificial flavours, lab-grown (bethel grown) ‘meat’ substitutes, and plenty of artificial ‘sweeteners’, low calorie, skimmed coconut milk and ‘two generations for the price of one’ offers. All this given free with bethel ‘food stamps’.

I'd have laughed at this— because you nailed!— but it is so tragic.

They will put you out of the synagogues and make you outcasts. And a time is coming when whoever kills you will think that he is offering service to God. —John 16:2 Amplified Bible

But I tell you, love {agapate} your enemies [bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,] and pray for those who [spitefully accuse you and] persecute you... —Matthew 5:44 Berean Notated Bible

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[SusanB]

Sometimes tangents or digressions are very interesting as this one is. For some reason it calls to my mind how the ORG causes the attention of the student to be diverted, or off on a tangent, from the real hope of Jesus’ arrival and sealing of the Chosen Ones to Jesus having been seated on the Kingly throne. In my mind, it’s very much like how Christendom diverts attention away from the celebration of Jesus’ sacrificial death to his resurrection. His resurrection is a very important piece of the puzzle but we are specifically told to celebrate his sacrificial death. That is where Jehovah directed our attention but it’s the subtle diversion that can take our faith off on a tangent. No doubt Jesus must be enthroned before his arrival but the scriptures really point our attention to the sealing of the anointed ones becoming “The Chosen Ones”, who have a prominent role in the book of Revelation.

We should not lose sight of the importance of Jesus’ 2nd coming and all that means, the sealing of the faithful anointed and then the answer to the part of the model prayer that asks for God’s Kingdom to come. Whether or not we each are ready for it is a question we will each have to answer for individually and group think will not be of any help.

 

[Spoilmerotten]

This is very true. I find it increasingly so when I look at the daily text. “A soldier wears a helmet - we need to protect ourselves against Satan’s attacks”. Watchtower dramatise everything. I have never needed satan to attack me - I can think of plenty of instances where my own desires take precedence over what I know is right and proper. It’s all my memory seems to berate with me with these days. These “Satan’s attacks” are nothing of the sort but the meanderings of the mind upon desires of the heart. Self discipline is required and for that, one needs to search for Jehovah.

Had watchtower continued the search for Jehovah back in the day to allow His reality to shape their understanding, and continued it with pertinent, searching questions about understanding the reasoning of these significant chronological, moral and obligatory spiritual questions in context with the “times” instead of faffing about with beards, pantaloons for women and money for ice-cream, booze, CSA, untied nations libraries and film sets, they might not now be facing such impending judgement. I really would like to understand what they actually do with their day. All those popes in one office - what do they do with their daily conclave ?

Make business deals!

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I'd have laughed at this— because you nailed!— but it is so tragic.

They will put you out of the synagogues and make you outcasts. And a time is coming when whoever kills you will think that he is offering service to God. —John 16:2 Amplified Bible

But I tell you, love {agapate} your enemies [bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,] and pray for those who [spitefully accuse you and] persecute you... —Matthew 5:44 Berean Notated Bible

—Timothy,
a believer.

Do you think that scripture at Mathew 5:44 refers to the meaning that we often apply to love today and that carries affection, - because love has a multiplicity of interpretations? We are expected to love those that practice vile things but hate what they do. It’s difficult to divide one from the other and this is largely how I feel about the watchtower to this day. When I had my run in with the “elders” it was either I admit to something I did not do, or get disfellowshipped. I have never actually been sure what I was charged with so vague was their description! I chose the “not get disfellowshipped” route. I find it difficult to this day that I did. It would not stop me from “feeding and clothing” them, but is that love?

There has to be repentance and learning from experience as well does there not? The humility to accept error, and the heart to apologise sincerely is necessary, if it is to have value. If it is otherwise, it’s called duty - the bottom rung of the ladder of love. Not much value there - but the damage does not go away after years of attendance and effort to be tested and treated as a spiritual leper. And watchtower shunning is not unlike the treatment meted out to lepers in the days of Christ right through to the days of my sister who shuns me to this day. Over forty years! Just about everyone here knows the feeling of that. There is much to be learnt about love, and still more to understand about its presentation. It’s worse still if we choose to hate - that just eats one up from the inside! You can’t win!

 

[a believer]

When I had my run in with the “elders” it was either I admit to something I did not do, or get disfellowshipped.

I know that experience. /shaking my head.

Unless I'm mistaken, agape in the Bible is a principled love, distinctive from eros, which is an emotional love.

Agape love is proactive —a decision or determination.

For example:

We love (agape) because He first loved (agape / ēgapēsen) us. —1 John 4:19 Berean Notated Bible

Not that He loved what we did or were doing, or even deserve it— but because agape is an action love, a decision.

The well-known passage in the Johannine gospel is another example:

For God {Theos} so loved {ēgapēsen} the world that He gave His one and only (only begotten) Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. —John 3:16 Berean Notated Bible

Again, proactive, in spite of ourselves and our Adamic inheritance. Again, undeserved and in no way earned.

When we give our word of oath before friends and family that we will love, cherish and honor our spouse in marriage, ideally it is agape love, even though we are likely experiencing eros love at the time, too. However, the distinction is that agape love is what will sustain the marriage, a willingness to forgive... foregive. Too often, in the world, it is the eros love that people are going for, and they remain married so long as their spouse "makes" or "keeps" them happy.

Anyone who has been married for a couple decades... or longer, is going to be well acquainted with this because while they agape their spouse, there come days when they may not like them very much, lol. Or, perhaps are not happy about a particular trait they come to discover in due time.

Does there need to be repentance and learning from the experience for agape love, as you mentioned? We have the above two passages responding to that.

One other came to mind here, too:

If you⁺ love {agapate} those who love {agapōntas} you⁺, what credit is that to you⁺? Even sinners love {agapōsin} those who love them. —Luke 6:32 Berean Notated Bible

We can love (agape) our enemies for this very reason... not because of how they treat us, but because we aspire to love even as Jehovah loves (agape), and that requires a difficult sacrifice on our part, for sure, because it is plenty easier said than done. I speak from personal experience.

I'm confident that others are able to weigh in on this, though.

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I know that experience. /shaking my head.

Unless I'm mistaken, agape in the Bible is a principled love, distinctive from eros, which is an emotional love.

Agape love is proactive —a decision or determination.

For example:

We love (agape) because He first loved (agape / ēgapēsen) us. —1 John 4:19 Berean Notated Bible

Not that He loved what we did or were doing, or even deserve it— but because agape is an action love, a decision.

The well-known passage in the Johannine gospel is another example:

For God {Theos} so loved {ēgapēsen} the world that He gave His one and only (only begotten) Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. —John 3:16 Berean Notated Bible

Again, proactive, in spite of ourselves and our Adamic inheritance. Again, undeserved and in no way earned.

When we give our word of oath before friends and family that we will love, cherish and honor our spouse in marriage, ideally it is agape love, even though we are likely experiencing eros love at the time, too. However, the distinction is that agape love is what will sustain the marriage, a willingness to forgive... foregive. Too often, in the world, it is the eros love that people are going for, and they remain married so long as their spouse "makes" or "keeps" them happy.

Anyone who has been married for a couple decades... or longer, is going to be well acquainted with this because while they agape their spouse, there come days when they may not like them very much, lol. Or, perhaps are not happy about a particular trait they come to discover in due time.

Does there need to be repentance and learning from the experience for agape love, as you mentioned? We have the above two passages responding to that.

One other came to mind here, too:

If you⁺ love {agapate} those who love {agapōntas} you⁺, what credit is that to you⁺? Even sinners love {agapōsin} those who love them. —Luke 6:32 Berean Notated Bible

We can love (agape) our enemies for this very reason... not because of how they treat us, but because we aspire to love even as Jehovah loves (agape), and that requires a difficult sacrifice on our part, for sure, because it is plenty easier said than done. I speak from personal experience.

I'm confident that others are able to weigh in on this, though.

—Timothy,
a believer.

Thanks for that Timothy. It helps.

 

[a believer]

Thanks for that Timothy. It helps.

I hope others might weigh in on this, all the same. And I didn't mention the third love, philia (brotherly love) in the post.

I also want to note that agape love doesn't mean someone who is in an abusive relationship of any sort is somehow required to stay and be abused— whether in marriage, family, or at the hand of one's religious leadership.

For example: David's example of principled love (agape) toward King Saul (1 Samuel 24:6) didn't mean he remained when he was facing harm from King Saul.

Likewise with Jesus, he didn't remain when faced with harm from someone else... until the time arrived that he subjected himself as far as death— yet even in his final breaths asked Jehovah to forgive them even as he himself was bound, beaten and bleeding, to the stauros (for they knew not what they were doing).

As I presently understand the matter: Forgiveness is a curious thing, as it is for the forgiver— not for the forgiven. It displaces the grievous burden on one's very soul into the hands of Jehovah. It takes away the power and influence the offender has with their offensiveness over a believer who has placed their hope in Jehovah, Who judges righteously and impartially.

But it is not easy, by any stretch of the imagination, in those situations. Forgiving the rapist of my childhood and the molester of my teenage years both took me a while. Forgiving my abusive mother actually took longer, because I had to truly come to understand and appreciate that forgiveness does not mean the action was OK.

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[SusanB]

The Hebrew word “chesedh” is translated in the NWT as loyal love. Below is the definition from the jw.org website and it makes sense to me from reading the scriptural accounts where doing a kind act is described as loyal love. If someone is our enemy and we see them in need, do we put aside our animosity to offer assistance? Wouldn’t that be loving our enemies? I don’t think that loving our enemies means we are hugging them or allowing others to use us as their doormat. But on the other extreme, there’s a modern song where in the lyrics it says “if you were drowning, I wouldn’t lend a hand” that would be the opposite of loving our enemy and when I hear that song, it bothers me to hear that. What kind of hatred would one have to harbor to see someone desperately in need and refuse to do what they can to assist? Even if that person has wronged you, what a terrible attitude to have. I guess I view it as showing love for Jehovah and imitating his beautiful example of providing sunshine and the wonderful natural world that even the wicked enjoy. We must show the principled kind of love to our enemies and we certainly would not try to harm them or ignore their pleas for help if it is within our power to assist in an emergency. And, we have the parable of the “good” Samaritan to help us understand what that means.

Loyal Love​

Most frequently rendered from the Hebrew word cheʹsedh, referring to love motivated by commitment, integrity, loyalty, and deep attachment. It is often used in connection with God’s love for humans, but it is also love shown between humans.—Ex 34:6; Ru 3:10.

 

[SusanB]

The Hebrew word “chesedh” is translated in the NWT as loyal love. Below is the definition from the jw.org website and it makes sense to me from reading the scriptural accounts where doing a kind act is described as loyal love. If someone is our enemy and we see them in need, do we put aside our animosity to offer assistance? Wouldn’t that be loving our enemies? I don’t think that loving our enemies means we are hugging them or allowing others to use us as their doormat. But on the other extreme, there’s a modern song where in the lyrics it says “if you were drowning, I wouldn’t lend a hand” that would be the opposite of loving our enemy and when I hear that song, it bothers me to hear that. What kind of hatred would one have to harbor to see someone desperately in need and refuse to do what they can to assist? Even if that person has wronged you, what a terrible attitude to have. I guess I view it as showing love for Jehovah and imitating his beautiful example of providing sunshine and the wonderful natural world that even the wicked enjoy. We must show the principled kind of love to our enemies and we certainly would not try to harm them or ignore their pleas for help if it is within our power to assist in an emergency. And, we have the parable of the “good” Samaritan to help us understand what that means.

Loyal Love​

Most frequently rendered from the Hebrew word cheʹsedh, referring to love motivated by commitment, integrity, loyalty, and deep attachment. It is often used in connection with God’s love for humans, but it is also love shown between humans.—Ex 34:6; Ru 3:10.

Just to add to my reply, I grew up in a household that didn’t really teach true love. I have come to know about what it means from the scriptures. Other people who grew up in the same household (that I grew up in) have recently gotten into an argument with each other and the way one person resolved their argument with another was by slashing the tires of the one they were mad at!! Really a terrible way to act and I think it highlights what the lack of love, as a principle, leads to. You can be angry at someone, disappointed, etc. but in my view, loving your enemy would mean that you don’t retaliate against that person and you leave the door open for reconciliation and if given the opportunity, you pursue that. I think the parable of the prodigal son is also a good example of that. The father could have shunned his wayward son and denied him his inheritance but he allowed the son to make his own choice and when the son came to his senses, he was welcomed with open arms. The father didn’t enable the son to sink further into degradation but he waited with patience and hope.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I hope others might weigh in on this, all the same. And I didn't mention the third love, philia (brotherly love) in the post.

I also want to note that agape love doesn't mean someone who is in an abusive relationship of any sort is somehow required to stay and be abused— whether in marriage, family, or at the hand of one's religious leadership.

For example: David's example of principled love (agape) toward King Saul (1 Samuel 24:6) didn't mean he remained when he was facing harm from King Saul.

Likewise with Jesus, he didn't remain when faced with harm from someone else... until the time arrived that he subjected himself as far as death— yet even in his final breaths asked Jehovah to forgive them even as he himself was bound, beaten and bleeding, to the stauros (for they knew not what they were doing).

As I presently understand the matter: Forgiveness is a curious thing, as it is for the forgiver— not for the forgiven. It displaces the grievous burden on one's very soul into the hands of Jehovah. It takes away the power and influence the offender has with their offensiveness over a believer who has placed their hope in Jehovah, Who judges righteously and impartially.

But it is not easy, by any stretch of the imagination, in those situations. Forgiving the rapist of my childhood and the molester of my teenage years both took me a while. Forgiving my abusive mother actually took longer, because I had to truly come to understand and appreciate that forgiveness does not mean the action was OK.

—Timothy,
a believer.

What my interest is in the biblical definition of love is not so much the branches of love, vis: agape, phileo, Eros, storge (I’ve got a Greek bible here for some reason, rather than Hebrew), but their application. You give a prime example in forgiveness, in that it rests upon the altruism of the offended one, but that does not reduce the resentment if we are honest with ourselves. It is ever more complicated when the offender does not recant, understand and turn about, let alone go in the opposite direction unless they too come to understand the theological question of how love is actually expressed.

The issue of Jesus asking for forgiveness for his murderers illustrates the point as they “know not….”, as you say. This then begs the question of the mindset of the one expressing the forgiveness. That there is a question as to how “love” is expressed is reflected in those very words that you quote in that Jesus asked Jehovah to forgive his murderers. This highlights that Jesus understood that Jehovah, his father, may well feel differently. And he suggests why Jehovah may, too “….for they know not what they do.” - he ‘reminds’ his father. Jesus knew he had to die, and that purpose was far advanced, but the necessity, the suffering, the intent of his his persecutors to inflict yet more pain and injustice in their ignorance …..- these things demand an analytical insight beyond the mere acknowledgement of the act that requires anyone to “forgive”. We have more to learn about how Jesus could possibly say what he did and, critically for our contemplation, actually mean it!

Watchtower is at the other extreme - depriving children and causing them a basic conflict over ice cream money. We, they, know the issue, but not the extent of its pure application within the laws’ expression of love. Can we honestly say that we do? I think not. We can list the facets that employ love to recognise and understand the motives of another, and we can list their types - but their contents, depths of application and understanding of love in its emotive reasoning: is this not the test itself when the time comes - to die for its principle? We stand on thin ice over a shallow depth of understanding and application within our heart. It’s not about being able to donate ice cream money, of forgive a greater insult, but about reasoning upon all the principles that employ love as the primary motivator - the entire range of the attributes of Jehovah that rest upon that one concept in application, that will secure an eternity of peace. Thus we come full circle to “the forgiver” that you mention. “If we do not have love, we have nothing.”

 

[a believer]

but that does not reduce the resentment if we are honest with ourselves.

@SusanB referenced the account of the "prodigal son" in her post above, yet I can't help but consider the hardhearted brother, the resentment he had toward his brother, and even toward their father as the father rejoiced in the wayward son's return. The father even had to go out to reason with the resentful brother!

Meanwhile the older son was in the field, and as he approached the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what was going on.

‘Your brother has returned,’ he said, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has him back safe and sound.’

The older son became angry and refused to go in. So his father came out and pleaded with him.

But he answered his father, ‘Look, all these years I have served you and never disobeyed a commandment of yours. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours returns from squandering your wealth with prostitutes, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

‘Son, you are always with me,’ the father said, ‘and all that is mine is yours. But it was fitting to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’” —Luke 15:25-32 Berean Standard Bible

—Timothy

 

[a believer]

Maybe this takes the discussion too far off its original topic, but I find the duplicity remarkable and it goes to the points @BARNABY THE DOG. mentioned earlier concerning repentance.

Rules for thee...

Gajus Glockentin: Why Say, “Sorry”? (Luke 15:18)

But not for me...

JW Broadcasting—January 2024: Annual Meeting 2023, Part 2 [skip to the 5:20 mark and proceed from there: no apologies necessary from the organization's leadership]

If apologies follow repentance, and the organization's leadership doesn't apologize, how should I take that except that there is no repentance by said leadership, regardless of who has been hurt or died.

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[Shiloh]

Maybe this takes the discussion too far off its original topic, but I find the duplicity remarkable and it goes to the points @BARNABY THE DOG. mentioned earlier concerning repentance.

Rules for thee...

Gajus Glockentin: Why Say, “Sorry”? (Luke 15:18)

But not for me...

JW Broadcasting—January 2024: Annual Meeting 2023, Part 2 [skip to the 5:20 mark and proceed from there: no apologies necessary from the organization's leadership]

If apologies follow repentance, and the organization's leadership doesn't apologize, how should I take that except that there is no repentance by said leadership, regardless of who has been hurt or died.

—Timothy,
a believer.

It would shock the $hit out of me if the leadership ever apologizes for anything! They just don't have it in them. I believe their legal counsel advises against that.

 

[a believer]

It would shock the $hit out of me if the leadership ever apologizes for anything! They just don't have it in them. I believe their legal counsel advises against that.

"We plead the fifth."

/smh

 

[Shiloh]

"We plead the fifth."

/smh

It would be funny if they had gotten a pardon from Bidens autopen. Although that wouldn't exclude them from Jehovah's wrath.

 

[a believer]

Although that wouldn't exclude them from Jehovah's wrath.

But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. —Romans 2:5 Berean Standard Bible

It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. —Hebrews 10:31 New American Standard Bible

 

[BagdadBill]

and then the answer to the part of the model prayer that asks for God’s Kingdom to come. Whether or not we each are ready for it is a question we will each have to answer for individually and group think will not be of any help.

I have used Jesus' prayer outline as a way of directing people toward life on earth more times than I can recall. People read Revelation 16 word for word and still don't see what it says. If you repeat a lie often enough...