Sunday, Feb 11 - The evil of child baptism

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Baptism . . . is . . . now saving you.—1 Pet. 3:21.

In order to get ready for baptism, one of the first things we must do is sincerely repent of our sins. (Acts 2:37, 38) Genuine repentance leads to genuine change. Have you put away any practices that displease Jehovah, such as living immorally, using tobacco, or using foul or abusive language? (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; 2 Cor. 7:1; Eph. 4:29) Keep trying to make changes. Talk to the person studying the Bible with you, or ask the congregation elders for help and guidance. If you are young and are living at home, keep asking your parents for help to break any bad habits that might prevent you from getting baptized. It is also important to follow a good spiritual routine. That would include attending Christian meetings and participating in them. (Heb. 10:24, 25) And once you qualify to engage in the Christian ministry, make that part of your routine as well. w23.03 10-11 ¶14-16
The Watchtower has a lot to answer to God for. There is no need to list all of their many evils here. But one evil that I have not written about as extensively is child baptism. My advice to young persons living at home: Do not get baptized. My advice to parents with young persons and teens living at home: Do not allow your children to get baptized. It will not save them. However, it might ruin their lives. A young person can live a clean Christian life without baptism. They can learn the Bible and grow to be mature Christians without submitting to baptism. Baptism brings one under the authority of the Watchtower and that has resulted in thousands of young people getting disfellowshipped and cut off from family and friends during a formative period in their lives.

Baptizing young people is a fairly recent practice. I suspect it is a scheme to pad the number of JWs. They keep getting younger and younger too. I have heard of children as young as eight being baptized. That is crazy. There is no biblical precedent for this. Do you want to follow Jesus' example and walk in his footsteps? He was 30 when he was baptized. By the Watchtower's admission, baptism is one of the most important decisions we can make in life. It represents the outward declaration of a lifelong commitment. What parent would allow a child of 10 years to get married or leave home and take up a career? There are age restrictions for almost everything. Why then does the Watchtower promote child baptism knowing it has ruined thousands and thousands of lives and caused needless heartache to families? It is considered by some to be a protection, but that is a delusion. Young people do not magically gain wisdom, and discipline and acquire the experience of life simply because they undergo baptism. Young people are easily influenced and prone to mistakes. Why put them in a position to be ostracized from their family and friends for the sins common to youth? It is a harsh and needless punishment.

We know that thousands of children of Jehovah's Witnesses have been molested and sexually abused by congregants. It is a fact that the Watchtower has done everything in its power to keep these crimes under wraps and shield the criminals from prosecution. It is a form of child sacrifice all under the guise of protecting Jehovah's name from reproach. I suppose child baptism is motivated by this same perverse evil. An organization that would sacrifice the innocence of children under their charge to pedophiles would not have a problem promoting child baptism under the guise of saving children when in reality for many it has done the opposite.

 
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Ana

Well-known member
Espléndido comentario Robert. La directiva ha promovido una carga muy difícil de llevar a sus niños y jóvenes. La carga de Jesús en cambio, es ligera. Los padres más que cómplices en muchas ocasiones, movidos por su comportamiento idolatra acia los ancianos, han delegado su responsabilidad a estos. Es una comodidad en realidad, así no son ellos los que educan e imparten la disciplina. Esa responsabilidad recae en los padres a los ojos de Jehová. En definitiva unos quieren dominar y otros eludir responsabilidades, un combo muy peligroso para incluir en la cláusula familiar. Los hijos son un don de Dios, veremos cada uno lo que sucede cuando el amo venga a revisar sus bienes.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Espléndido comentario Robert. La directiva ha promovido una carga muy difícil de llevar a sus niños y jóvenes. La carga de Jesús en cambio, es ligera. Los padres más que cómplices en muchas ocasiones, movidos por su comportamiento idolatra acia los ancianos, han delegado su responsabilidad a estos. Es una comodidad en realidad, así no son ellos los que educan e imparten la disciplina. Esa responsabilidad recae en los padres a los ojos de Jehová. En definitiva unos quieren dominar y otros eludir responsabilidades, un combo muy peligroso para incluir en la cláusula familiar. Los hijos son un don de Dios, veremos cada uno lo que sucede cuando el amo venga a
Translation: Splendid comment Robert. The board has promoted a very difficult burden to carry on its children and young people. The burden of Jesus, on the other hand, is light. Parents more than accomplices on many occasions, moved by their behaviour idolising the elderly, have delegated their responsibility to them. It is a comfort in reality, so they are not the ones who educate and teach discipline. That responsibility falls on the parents in the eyes of Jehovah. In short, some want to dominate and others avoid responsibilities, a very dangerous combo to include in the family clause. Children are a gift from God, we will each see what happens when the master comes to check his goods.
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
@Watchtower

James4:​

13 Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do business and make some profit,”t 14 whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow.u For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears.v 15 Instead, you should say: “If Jehovah* wills,w we will live and do this or that.” 16 But now you take pride in your arrogant boasting. All such boasting is wicked. 17 Therefore, if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.x

Luke 12:47
Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes.
John 9:41
Jesus said to them: “If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, ‘We see.’ Your sin remains.”
John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin. But now they have no excuse for their sin.
 

Carl

Well-known member
The Watchtower has a lot to answer to God for. There is no need to list all of their many evils here. But one evil that I have not written about as extensively is child baptism. My advice to young persons living at home: Do not get baptized. My advice to parents with young persons and teens living at home: Do not allow your children to get baptized. It will not save them. However, it might ruin their lives. A young person can live a clean Christian life without baptism. They can learn the Bible and grow to be mature Christians without submitting to baptism. Baptism brings one under the authority of the Watchtower and that has resulted in thousands of young people getting disfellowshipped and cut off from family and friends during a formative period in their lives.

Baptizing young people is a fairly recent practice. I suspect it is a scheme to pad the number of JWs. They keep getting younger and younger too. I have heard of children as young as eight being baptized. That is crazy. There is no biblical precedent for this. Do you want to follow Jesus' example and walk in his footsteps? He was 30 when he was baptized. By the Watchtower's admission, baptism is one of the most important decisions we can make in life. It represents the outward declaration of a lifelong commitment. What parent would allow a child of 10 years to get married or leave home and take up a career? There are age restrictions for almost everything. Why then does the Watchtower promote child baptism knowing it has ruined thousands and thousands of lives and caused needless heartache to families? It is considered by some to be a protection, but that is a delusion. Young people do not magically gain wisdom, and discipline and acquire the experience of life simply because they undergo baptism. Young people are easily influenced and prone to mistakes. Why put them in a position to be ostracized from their family and friends for the sins common to youth? It is a harsh and needless punishment.

We know that thousands of children of Jehovah's Witnesses have been molested and sexually abused by congregants. It is a fact that the Watchtower has done everything in its power to keep these crimes under wraps and shield the criminals from prosecution. It is a form of child sacrifice all under the guise of protecting Jehovah's name from reproach. I suppose child baptism is motivated by this same perverse evil. An organization that would sacrifice the innocence of children under their charge to pedophiles would not have a problem promoting child baptism under the guise of saving children when in reality for many it has done the opposite.

Jesus wasn't baptized until he was 30 years old. Was there a reason he wasn't baptized sooner? I don't know. What I do know is current research tells us the adult brain isn't fully developed until age 25, with some studies now saying 30. I find it amazing how scientifically accurate the Bible is concerning our physiology. Since baptism is the public display of one's inward dedication to Jehovah, I wonder if we were supposed to follow Jesus' example? I don't know the answer, but I would say that no matter what one's level of spiritual maturity is, no elder should be under 30. A person in their 20's may be wise beyond their chronological age, but wisdom comes from experience, and the title of elder in Jehovah's organization implies spiritual wisdom... I don't see how any 20 something year old could be called wise.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Jesus wasn't baptized until he was 30 years old. Was there a reason he wasn't baptized sooner? I don't know. What I do know is current research tells us the adult brain isn't fully developed until age 25, with some studies now saying 30. I find it amazing how scientifically accurate the Bible is concerning our physiology. Since baptism is the public display of one's inward dedication to Jehovah, I wonder if we were supposed to follow Jesus' example? I don't know the answer, but I would say that no matter what one's level of spiritual maturity is, no elder should be under 30. A person in their 20's may be wise beyond their chronological age, but wisdom comes from experience, and the title of elder in Jehovah's organization implies spiritual wisdom... I don't see how any 20 something year old could be called wise.
According to Nmbers 4:3, a census was taken among a family of Levites assigned to work as priests in the Tabernacle, from the age of 30-50. Jesus was not a Levite but he did fulfill the Law and became a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek when he was baptized and anointed at the age of 30.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
According to Nmbers 4:3, a census was taken among a family of Levites assigned to work as priests in the Tabernacle, from the age of 30-50. Jesus was not a Levite but he did fulfill the Law and became a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek when he was baptized and anointed at the age of 30.
That makes absolute sense along with the previous comments posted. Evidently, WT and we, as well should know that Jehovah has more insight concerning our psychological make up. He is OUR CREATOR.
 
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Carl

Well-known member
According to Nmbers 4:3, a census was taken among a family of Levites assigned to work as priests in the Tabernacle, from the age of 30-50. Jesus was not a Levite but he did fulfill the Law and became a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek when he was baptized and anointed at the age of 30.
I could be opening a can of worms unknowingly, but was baptism only meant for the disciples/anointed? Is there any Biblical evidence it was meant for everyone? When Jesus described it as being "born again," what did he mean?
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
I could be opening a can of worms unknowingly, but was baptism only meant for the disciples/anointed? Is there any Biblical evidence it was meant for everyone? When Jesus described it as being "born again," what did he mean?
There were two baptisms in the first century that shed light on your question. There was the baptism of John and the baptism in Jesus' name. On the day of Pentecost when the anointing began, apparently all of Jesus' disciples had been baptized by John, as was Jesus. Presumably, all of the 120 original anointed persons had undergone baptism by John. However, after Pentecost, all of the new disciples had to be baptized in Jesus' name in order to be anointed by the holy spirit. For some that meant getting baptized again. However, it was possible to be a Christian and have the holy spirit and not be anointed by the holy spirit. That was the situation with Apollos and about 12 others.

The 18th chapter of Acts describes Apollos' situation: "This man had been instructed in the way of Jehovah, and aglow with the spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things about Jesus, but he was acquainted only with the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him."

The next chapter of Acts then tells of about 12 others: "In the course of events, while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland regions and came down to Ephesus. There he found some disciples and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?” They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.” So he said: “In what, then, were you baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the holy spirit came upon them, and they began speaking in foreign languages and prophesying."

The account above says the men were believers and disciples and yet they were not anointed. The accounts demonstrate that a person can be a baptized believer and be motivated by the holy spirit to preach and teach and still not be anointed by the holy spirit.
 
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Nomex

Well-known member
I didn't get baptized until I was 19. Fortunately it wasn't pushed all that hard when I was growing up, but that was in part because as an "unbaptized publisher" when I was growing up, (well there was no such thing) you were treated as if you were baptized. When I was growing up, children were "disassociated", even though they were not baptized if they were found to be "unrepentant.". Robert may not even know about this, but back some time in the 80's they changed that. I was "disciplined" at least twice for some pretty stupid things when I was still an unbaptized child. The first time was probably around 11 or 12. The second I wouldn't have been much older.

The first time anyone mentioned that Jesus was 30 when he got baptized I was almost 30. But it was brought up to me by a friend of mine who was an elder and also my surfing buddy. We talked about a few things including beards and neck ties, which incidentally have their origins dating back to the military uniforms from the Napoleonic wars.

But when it comes to child baptism, I think this is perhaps one of the most egregious violations of a persons freewill that there is. Starting with the fact that even Satan's system has protection for children from contract liability, so much so that a cell phone contract is not legally binding until a person is 18 years old. A CELL PHONE CONTRACT!

I'm not done yet...I'm really gone hit this one out of the park. Ever since I realized how bad WT and the GB really are, I still have some lingering feelings about the congregations the brotherhood etc, but the biggest problem I have overall with WT the congregations and the GB is how much they have aligned themselves with the most wicked and blatantly evil aspects of Satan's system. The way they treat children is the "last straw" so to speak. What has WT done? I remember a brother saying one time, "Satan and his demons don't think your children are 'cute'. They don't think their adorable, or any of the things we attach to child rearing and how that is the most sacred gift from God to mankind. They hate all of us including our children."
So, when the world is "transitioning" children by giving them hormone blockers and worse, a child who cannot legally sign a cell phone contract, yet WT does not veer too far off from that, who do they serve? When WT aligns itself with the left, the party of transgenderism, and the LGBTQ, community, when they constantly quote from UN officials pushing the exact same agenda, and then they are the same people pushing vaccines, and"misinformation" in the form of criticizing Satan the Devil's governments, because let's be honest, that's why they made up the derogatory term in the first place, that is to say, they flipped the script from calling the government crazy for the things they do, to calling citizens crazy for criticizing the things government does, it just proves once and for all, who WT supports!

The repercussions of a child "transitioning" to the opposite gender, (something that in actuality is not possible) and child baptism are not all that different in terms of the permanent damage done to the person's psyche. Yet the very best evidence that this agenda is Satanic, is what they are doing to children.

So there you have it, the WT is doing the exact same thing as Satan's world in terms of how they treat children and ruin their lives. But that's not all, they have aligned themselves with many aspects of the leftists liberal demonic agenda. It wasn't that long ago when I realized a friend of mine a brother, aligned himself with the left, and I couldn't believe it.

But when I realized the reason I also realized this was just another problem with WT that I did not fully understand at the time, but I remembered another friend of mine had talked about how many JW's think in the new system they will have no obligation to society. What this friend of mine liked about the left, was the "well-fare state" aspect of it. And this was a brother living in a $500,000 home who while living in the home with a mortgage, went on welfare and had no shame about it. I know about it cause he himself told me about it! And what made me sick about this, wasn't that he lost his job, (he had lost his job), but that he was encouraging me to take advantage of the well-fare state as well, not that I needed to, but he just had no shame about milking the government.

Any way that's a subject for another discussion, but in my mind it gives some insight on the mentality of some of the brothers and hoiw and why WT can lean left, the most obvious demonic side of Satan's system.
 

noname

Well-known member
When I was a teen the pressure to be baptized was tremendance. The other parents wouldn’t let you hang out with their children or they’d look down on you, and I remember being reminded constantly of the eunuch who said “what prevents me from getting baptized…” I was constantly reminded to ask myself that. I remember thinking I barely know what the **** I’m doing , I’m 14/15 . I just need a loving family a happy family life right now. That’s what children , teenagers need, a happy family life a good dad and mom that love and protect them, and the rest will follow Naturally.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
When I was a teen the pressure to be baptized was tremendance. The other parents wouldn’t let you hang out with their children or they’d look down on you, and I remember being reminded constantly of the eunuch who said “what prevents me from getting baptized…” I was constantly reminded to ask myself that. I remember thinking I barely know what the **** I’m doing , I’m 14/15 . I just need a loving family a happy family life right now. That’s what children , teenagers need, a happy family life a good dad and mom that love and protect them, and the rest will follow Naturally.
Exactly so. There speaks the voice of wisdom. Unless the mind is protected, nurtured, fed with reason and understanding, the basis for conceptual thinking is left undeveloped. “Bring up a child according to the “Way” and he will not turn aside from it.“ Of course, the “way” is not the perfunctory carrying out of regulations and conduct, but of the understanding of them. Agreeing with them. The embracing of principles, the knowledge, wisdom and thus living of the way because it is fully part of us through understanding.

The Watchtower Book of qualification that needs to be agreed upon before baptism is “allowed” does not even touch upon the embodiment of spiritual insight. One might ask how it could, if the questions need to be asked of another in the first instance. It is a contract with watchtower - nothing more. Nothing to do with spiritual insight. The conscience speaks for itself as mentioned by Nomex of the Ethiopian asking “what prevents me from getting baptised?” Thus the concept of readiness comes from within the individual. It cannot be applied by another. Just as judgement of another cannot be applied by man in things spiritual.

One might ask how faith can be “approved” by another man - how “understanding” can be measured in the heart of another, how perception of things spiritual can be verified as acceptable to Jehovah in another. These things are known only to Jehovah. They do not come from studying watchtower ritual. They cannot come from following watchtower - that much is certain, with their slippery explanations of generations and of culpability in shepherding the flock “We (the GB ergo - Jehovah‘s “channel” ) owe no apology….(to the flock)…for it is Jehovah’s way of communicating with us.” Possibly the greatest blasphemy to come from the lips of a man in all time. Jesus spoke of “allowing the children to come unto me”. Does this not demonstrate that the word is a way of life, insightful, personal, simple in understanding, above all, natural to a child? It is born from within, spiritual, understood, desirable and acknowledging of and in the supreme Creator of all that we are and do sense of our raison d’être? Just how does a person, child or otherwise, understand and grasp such a holy relationship between created and Creator, unless it comes from within the heart, inculcated within such a place into a pure spiritual understanding and relationship?
 

J&P

Well-known member
But when it comes to child baptism, I think this is perhaps one of the most egregious violations of a persons freewill that there is. Starting with the fact that even Satan's system has protection for children from contract liability, so much so that a cell phone contract is not legally binding until a person is 18 years old. A CELL PHONE CONTRACT!
That's an excellent point, Nomex.
(I guess a lot of brain power comes from my old stompin' grounds) ;)🤣
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I didn't get baptized until I was 19. Fortunately it wasn't pushed all that hard when I was growing up, but that was in part because as an "unbaptized publisher" when I was growing up, (well there was no such thing) you were treated as if you were baptized. When I was growing up, children were "disassociated", even though they were not baptized if they were found to be "unrepentant.". Robert may not even know about this, but back some time in the 80's they changed that. I was "disciplined" at least twice for some pretty stupid things when I was still an unbaptized child. The first time was probably around 11 or 12. The second I wouldn't have been much older.

The first time anyone mentioned that Jesus was 30 when he got baptized I was almost 30. But it was brought up to me by a friend of mine who was an elder and also my surfing buddy. We talked about a few things including beards and neck ties, which incidentally have their origins dating back to the military uniforms from the Napoleonic wars.

But when it comes to child baptism, I think this is perhaps one of the most egregious violations of a persons freewill that there is. Starting with the fact that even Satan's system has protection for children from contract liability, so much so that a cell phone contract is not legally binding until a person is 18 years old. A CELL PHONE CONTRACT!

I'm not done yet...I'm really gone hit this one out of the park. Ever since I realized how bad WT and the GB really are, I still have some lingering feelings about the congregations the brotherhood etc, but the biggest problem I have overall with WT the congregations and the GB is how much they have aligned themselves with the most wicked and blatantly evil aspects of Satan's system. The way they treat children is the "last straw" so to speak. What has WT done? I remember a brother saying one time, "Satan and his demons don't think your children are 'cute'. They don't think their adorable, or any of the things we attach to child rearing and how that is the most sacred gift from God to mankind. They hate all of us including our children."
So, when the world is "transitioning" children by giving them hormone blockers and worse, a child who cannot legally sign a cell phone contract, yet WT does not veer too far off from that, who do they serve? When WT aligns itself with the left, the party of transgenderism, and the LGBTQ, community, when they constantly quote from UN officials pushing the exact same agenda, and then they are the same people pushing vaccines, and"misinformation" in the form of criticizing Satan the Devil's governments, because let's be honest, that's why they made up the derogatory term in the first place, that is to say, they flipped the script from calling the government crazy for the things they do, to calling citizens crazy for criticizing the things government does, it just proves once and for all, who WT supports!

The repercussions of a child "transitioning" to the opposite gender, (something that in actuality is not possible) and child baptism are not all that different in terms of the permanent damage done to the person's psyche. Yet the very best evidence that this agenda is Satanic, is what they are doing to children.

So there you have it, the WT is doing the exact same thing as Satan's world in terms of how they treat children and ruin their lives. But that's not all, they have aligned themselves with many aspects of the leftists liberal demonic agenda. It wasn't that long ago when I realized a friend of mine a brother, aligned himself with the left, and I couldn't believe it.

But when I realized the reason I also realized this was just another problem with WT that I did not fully understand at the time, but I remembered another friend of mine had talked about how many JW's think in the new system they will have no obligation to society. What this friend of mine liked about the left, was the "well-fare state" aspect of it. And this was a brother living in a $500,000 home who while living in the home with a mortgage, went on welfare and had no shame about it. I know about it cause he himself told me about it! And what made me sick about this, wasn't that he lost his job, (he had lost his job), but that he was encouraging me to take advantage of the well-fare state as well, not that I needed to, but he just had no shame about milking the government.

Any way that's a subject for another discussion, but in my mind it gives some insight on the mentality of some of the brothers and hoiw and why WT can lean left, the most obvious demonic side of Satan's system.
Perhaps watchtower could sign up with a cell phone company to offer free phone contacts with every juvenile baptism. I’ll write to winder and suggest it.
 
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