Sunday Talk - The Visions of Daniel

Seeker

Well-known member
Thank you for another great talk Brother K. Some points really stuck out for me, and I look forward to re-watching to follow up on some things I don't fully grasp (ie. feet of clay, King of Fierce Countenance, etc).

Also I love the jean jacket, great style.

God willing, if you do another talk next Sunday perhaps you could expand on Jehovah's "secret place of refuge" during the pending tribulation?
 
B

b_grace

Guest
one of the reasons I was drawn here to this forum was the talk about prophecy. I think speculating about things can be fun, and to some degree it can open up avenues of thought that others haven't thought about. As I mentined before I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to join this site simply because it seemed as though it was a one man show, and everybody was Robert said this and oh Robert said that, when in fact it was God who said this and that in the bible. After watching this video it makes me scared to think that so many are putting so much faith into one guy. It seemed throughout the video that you were just guessing if this was what was going to happen, but you seem to expect others to believe that what you are saying is true. If you are wrong then that would be the blind leading the blind. Around the 12:45 you said the two horned beast that is mentioned in Revelation is the same as the revived head, but they are clearly two different entities.


“. . .And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed.” (Re 13:11-12)

I'm not gonna lie, it feels like being in the Watchtower all over again but on a much smaller scale.
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
it seemed as though it was a one man show, and everybody was Robert said this and oh Robert said that, when in fact it was God who said this and that in the bible.
Hi b-grace.

I think people on this forum talk about Robert in the manner you describe because it is indeed a forum that he hosts. Also, there is an inherent level of appreciation for his efforts and his insights, but I can assure you that no one who regularly attends and/or contributes to this forum feels that what Robert says supplants what the Bible says, and absolutely including Robert himself as he quotes from the Bible and backs up his thoughts scripturally on an incessant basis.

There is a fair amount of disagreement going on here as well if that is what you are looking for. You might think that by your initial reading and subsequent deductions that this site is all about Robert but that thought is far from the reality. I think you should give this forum a real shot. Stick around for a while and share your insights. Iron sharpens iron does it not, so please don't be so quick to judge us unworthy of your time and contribution. Don't let your ego get the best of what might turn out to be a great experience for you b-grace.
 
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B

b_grace

Guest
Hi b-grace.

I think people on this forum talk about Robert in the manner you describe because it is indeed a forum that he hosts. Also, there is an inherent level of appreciation for his efforts and his insights, but I can assure you that no one who regularly attends and/or contributes to this forum feels that what Robert says supplants what the Bible says. There is a fair amount of disagreement going on here as well if that is what you are looking for. You might think that by your initial reading and subsequent deductions that this site is all about Robert and that is far from the reality. I think you should give this forum a real shot. Stick around for a while and share your insights. Iron sharpens iron does it not, so please don't be so quick to judge us unworthy of your time and contribution. Don't let your ego get the best of what might turn out to be a great experience for you b-grace.
Hi Meditator, I'm just looking for some truth. I see it here, but I also see other things which I don't know if I like. Actually I know I don't. I‘m not here to disagree simply to disagree, to be honest I don’t know why I’m here. Maybe I’m lonely, maybe there are things some say that make me of have a moment of thought and insight. I don’t consider myself worthy of judging anybody, but God and Jesus gave us many warnings to watch out for in these last days. This isn’t about my ego, its about my safety.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Around the 12:45 you said the two horned beast that is mentioned in Revelation is the same as the revived head, but they are clearly two different entities.


“. . .And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed.” (Re 13:11-12)
They are not two different entities. As I mentioned in the video, and as is well-known and accepted by JWs, the 7th chapter of Daniel depicts four individual beasts. The lion, bear, and leopard with four wings and lastly the 10-horned beast. The 13th chapter of Revelation reveals a seven-headed beast which is a composite of the individual beasts of Daniel. However, after the fatally wounded head of the beast is healed we are introduced to a two-horned beast that arises from the earth. Just as the beasts of Daniel are represented as individual ruling heads of the beast, so too, the two-horned beast must likewise be represented as one of the heads. And since the two-horned beast arises from the earth after the mortally wounded head is healed, the two-horned lamblike creature that arises from the earth as if coming from the grave must represent the fatally wounded head that comes back to life.

It is not really guesswork. It is like putting pieces of a puzzle together. If the parts fit then that is where they belong.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:12‬ ‭
[12] It wielded all the authority of the first beast in its sight and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed.
[14] It deceived the inhabitants of the earth with the signs it was allowed to perform in the sight of the first beast, telling them to make an image for the beast who had been wounded by the sword and revived.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8‬ ‭
[8] The beast that you saw existed once but now exists no longer. It will come up from the abyss and is headed for destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world shall be amazed when they see the beast, because it existed once but exists no longer, and yet it will come again.
 
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Bk Kevin

Well-known member
one of the reasons I was drawn here to this forum was the talk about prophecy. I think speculating about things can be fun, and to some degree it can open up avenues of thought that others haven't thought about. As I mentined before I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to join this site simply because it seemed as though it was a one man show, and everybody was Robert said this and oh Robert said that, when in fact it was God who said this and that in the bible. After watching this video it makes me scared to think that so many are putting so much faith into one guy. It seemed throughout the video that you were just guessing if this was what was going to happen, but you seem to expect others to believe that what you are saying is true. If you are wrong then that would be the blind leading the blind. Around the 12:45 you said the two horned beast that is mentioned in Revelation is the same as the revived head, but they are clearly two different entities.


“. . .And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed.” (Re 13:11-12)

I'm not gonna lie, it feels like being in the Watchtower all over again but on a much smaller scale.

More information on the subject.​

What is the meaning of the beast rising from the earth? beast-rising-earth?​

QUESTION: In view of your latest article on the new world order, how does Revelation 13:11-16 fit in?
ANSWER: Revelation 13:11-17 states: “Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed. And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast. It puts under compulsion all people – the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves – that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.”

Just as the multi-headed beast of Revelation is a composite of various parts of the individual beasts presented in the seventh chapter of Daniel, expressed as individual heads of the seven-headed beast from the sea, the two-horned beast is also represented as one of the seven heads. Which one? It is, obviously, the last one of the seven.

The Watchtower’s identification of the two-horned beast out of the earth as the Anglo-American dyad is correct. However, the question that ought to be considered is what the beast rising up from the earth signifies? The Watchtower attaches no particular importance to it.

Read more> https://e-watchman.com/meaning-beast-rising-earth/

 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:2‭-‬4‬
[2] The beast I saw was like a leopard, but it had feet like a bear’s, and its mouth was like the mouth of a lion. To it the dragon gave its own power and throne, along with great authority. [3] I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been mortally wounded, but this mortal wound was healed. Fascinated, the whole world followed after the beast. [4] They worshiped the dragon because it gave its authority to the beast; they also worshiped the beast and said, “Who can compare with the beast or who can fight against it?”

The authority the both cases derives from Satan and it has the same purpose.

What I find amazing is that Satan wants to maintain the status quo. It is Jehovah who forces the kings of the earth give their authority to the beast who will also destroy the religious systems. When all this happens Satan knows that his time is up. He was actually happy to keep the medieval system where Jehovah’s creation was at its lowest.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16‭-‬17‬ ‭
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. [17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
 
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Chloe

Well-known member
Yes ,so many interesting points. I believe that the time of the end has begun. 2020 was a turning point. I felt like Satan was really out of the gate. Also I have come to realise fully the meaning of ‘Satan is misleading the entire inhabited earth’ .Always has been, but now the restraints are seemingly off. It’s hard to distinguish truth from lies. Still so many eating, drinking and taking no note. The place of concealment must be based on a love of truth in the heart, for Jehovah and all that he has provided.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
A wonderfully constructed talk. It is what being here is all about. Putting things straight. Revealing of the Spirit, explaining the Truth, making it relevant, putting in to context, raising faith through clarity, assuring the righteous of the salvation to come, seeking the source of truth whilst it still may be found, putting a name and purpose to the Grand Creator, showing context, putting prophesy in order and allowing the Word to spread its calm and protection to those who will listen and rejoice in seeking first the kingdom. Indeed…the stones cry out.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭15:2‭-‬4‬ ‭
[2] Then I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire. On the sea of glass were standing those who had won the victory over the beast and its image and the number that signified its name. They were holding God’s harps, [3] and they sang the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: “Great and wonderful are your works, Lord God almighty. Just and true are your ways, O king of the nations. [4] Who will not fear you, Lord, or glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All the nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭15:2‭-‬4‬ ‭
[2] Then I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire. On the sea of glass were standing those who had won the victory over the beast and its image and the number that signified its name. They were holding God’s harps, [3] and they sang the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: “Great and wonderful are your works, Lord God almighty. Just and true are your ways, O king of the nations. [4] Who will not fear you, Lord, or glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All the nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
I hope the sea of glass is not the solidified atomic “glass” left after the heat of the explosion!
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
I hope the sea of glass is not the solidified atomic “glass” left after the heat of the explosion!
I looks more like the heavens where the chosen ones will be with the Lamb after they will have successfully stood up against the beast.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10‭-‬11‬ ‭
[10] Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed. For the accuser of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night. [11] They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1‭-‬4‬ ‭
[1] Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. [2] I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. [3] They were singing [what seemed to be] a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth. [4] These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬
[4] Then I saw thrones; those who sat on them were entrusted with judgment. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image nor had accepted its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
 
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Carl

Well-known member
one of the reasons I was drawn here to this forum was the talk about prophecy. I think speculating about things can be fun, and to some degree it can open up avenues of thought that others haven't thought about. As I mentined before I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to join this site simply because it seemed as though it was a one man show, and everybody was Robert said this and oh Robert said that, when in fact it was God who said this and that in the bible. After watching this video it makes me scared to think that so many are putting so much faith into one guy. It seemed throughout the video that you were just guessing if this was what was going to happen, but you seem to expect others to believe that what you are saying is true. If you are wrong then that would be the blind leading the blind. Around the 12:45 you said the two horned beast that is mentioned in Revelation is the same as the revived head, but they are clearly two different entities.


“. . .And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed.” (Re 13:11-12)

I'm not gonna lie, it feels like being in the Watchtower all over again but on a much smaller scale.
I completely understand what you're saying. I left this forum for awhile because I was thinking the same thoughts... only to reconsider after some time away. Here's the way I see our host. I believe he's a genuine truth seeker who is to the WT what Jeremiah was to the Hebrew Temple arrangement. Am I saying he's a prophet? I can't answer yes or no... that won't be answered until Jesus arrives. As long as he sticks to the Bible, and provides us with his honest opinions, I will continue to listen to him. If he deviates into a false Christ, I will call him out. As for now, I suggest we continue to put his work to the test daily to see if his words ring of truth or lies. I haven't caught him in one lie. If he's wrong about something, but isn't lying... then he's still doing a good service by helping us search for truth. Until Jesus returns, it's all conjecture. That said, I believe he's 90% correct... and the 10% where he falls short isn't up to me to correct since I have no idea at this point.
 
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