The Daily Telegraph- June 18, 2022 Story on Jw's CSA problem.

Sunshower

Well-known member
As far as their made up two witness rule for something as serious as this, Deuteronomy 22:25-27 reads - 25 “If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die himself, 26 and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. 27 For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there no one to rescue her.”

Were there any other witnesses to this offense?
Excellent point.

About the reporting of felonies, I think that is depending on the state where it happens.
But no matter, the fact that elders have to contact Bethel’s legal department and not the police is quite telling, isn’t it?

From the “Shepherd the flock book”:

6. Child abuse is a crime. In some jurisdictions, individuals who learn of an allegation of child abuse may be obligated by law to report the allegation to the secular authorities.—Rom. 13:1-4.
7. To ensure that elders comply with child-abuse reporting laws, two elders should immediately call the Legal Department for legal advice when the elders learn of an accusation of child abuse. A call should be made even when both persons involved are minors. The elders should not ask an alleged victim, the accused person, or anyone else to call the Legal Department on the elders’ behalf. The elders should call the Legal Department even in the fol- lowing situations:
(1) The alleged abuse occurred many years ago.
(2) The alleged abuse is based on the testimony of only
one witness.
(3) The alleged abuse is believed to be a repressed memory.
(4) The alleged abuse involved perpetrators or victims who are deceased.
(5) The alleged abuse is believed to have already been reported to the secular authorities.
(6) The alleged perpetrator or victim is not in your congregation.
(7) The alleged perpetrator is a non-Witness associating with the congregation.
(8) The alleged abuse occurred before the alleged perpetrator or victim was baptized.
(9) The alleged victim is now an adult.
(10) The alleged abuse occurred in the past, and it is unclear whether your congregation elders ever called the Legal Department for direction.
8. The Legal Department will provide legal advice based on the facts and the applicable law. If the individual who is accused of the child abuse is associated with your congregation, the two elders calling should provide the Legal Department with the individual’s full name, date of birth and, if applicable, date of baptism. After speaking with the Legal Department, the caller will be transferred to the Service Department.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
I‘m just wondering….because by them taking serious matters such as this into their own hands,they’ve done so to protect wickedness and the innocent are oppressed and scarred for life.
exactly. They have aided and abetted the commission of a crime.

Privilege, if there is even any, is broken once they share it with anybody else, incld. but not limited to branch officials.

Mandatory reporting has exclusions, child molestation is one.

There is no excuse for what they’ve done. This scandal may eclipse that of the Catholic Church because at least rank n file (laity) Catholics stood up and demanded redress whereas JWs récriminate and blame shift, when they’re not under self-imposed ignorance.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
@Sunshower

interesting in the STFB on one hand cites authorities, legalities and loopholes governing mand. reporting, on the other, the WT severely imposes vaccine requirements on full times and Bethelites devoid of legal requirement.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Excellent point.

About the reporting of felonies, I think that is depending on the state where it happens.
But no matter, the fact that elders have to contact Bethel’s legal department and not the police is quite telling, isn’t it?

From the “Shepherd the flock book”:

6. Child abuse is a crime. In some jurisdictions, individuals who learn of an allegation of child abuse may be obligated by law to report the allegation to the secular authorities.—Rom. 13:1-4.
7. To ensure that elders comply with child-abuse reporting laws, two elders should immediately call the Legal Department for legal advice when the elders learn of an accusation of child abuse. A call should be made even when both persons involved are minors. The elders should not ask an alleged victim, the accused person, or anyone else to call the Legal Department on the elders’ behalf. The elders should call the Legal Department even in the fol- lowing situations:
(1) The alleged abuse occurred many years ago.
(2) The alleged abuse is based on the testimony of only
one witness.
(3) The alleged abuse is believed to be a repressed memory.
(4) The alleged abuse involved perpetrators or victims who are deceased.
(5) The alleged abuse is believed to have already been reported to the secular authorities.
(6) The alleged perpetrator or victim is not in your congregation.
(7) The alleged perpetrator is a non-Witness associating with the congregation.
(8) The alleged abuse occurred before the alleged perpetrator or victim was baptized.
(9) The alleged victim is now an adult.
(10) The alleged abuse occurred in the past, and it is unclear whether your congregation elders ever called the Legal Department for direction.
8. The Legal Department will provide legal advice based on the facts and the applicable law. If the individual who is accused of the child abuse is associated with your congregation, the two elders calling should provide the Legal Department with the individual’s full name, date of birth and, if applicable, date of baptism. After speaking with the Legal Department, the caller will be transferred to the Service Department.
According to Jehovah’s law for his people child sexual abuse is a crime no matter where you live in the world right?

The elders, GB members aren’t the police, or any kind of legal authoritarians.
They are supposed to stand by God’s law and because they’ve went about handling all these matters their way instead of Jehovah’s way, they will no doubt suffer the consequences!

“Pride is before a crash!”
 

Maybelle

Active member
@Chloe

this next one from New York state- Hines v Watchtower, Gerrit Lösch. I read the complaint and it reads like a disgusting, slimy, sick crime novel. Be forewarned.

Watchtower already filed an answer and a motion to dismiss on summary judgment (i believe). I highly doubt any competent judge will dismiss this case.

Keep your eye on this one- i think it may go to a jury, and the discovery will be a matter of public record, Watchtower won’t be able to NDA it into the memory hole.
I know the name jack barr from the 1980s. My parents were good friends with a sister in a London cong who’s late husband was annointed, the name jack Barr came up a lot in their conversations. I was only young at the time, but even then it was almost hero worshipping!
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
@Sunshower

interesting in the STFB on one hand cites authorities, legalities and loopholes governing mand. reporting, on the other, the WT severely imposes vaccine requirements on full times and Bethelites devoid of legal requirement.
They pick and choose when exactly to listen to the superior authorities.

I’ve once heard someone say that JW’s are always looking for the loopholes in the law. I thought he was exaggerating at the time cause that is not how I think. But I now know that is applicable to a lot of them. They look at the letter of the law and how to get around it. So they can tell themselves that they didn’t do anything wrong.

The GB does it, so it’s okay when we do it! Right?

That is not Jehovah‘s way, it’s Satan’s way.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
According to Jehovah’s law for his people child sexual abuse is a crime no matter where you live in the world right?
Yeah, Jehovah is righteous, he will know no mercy for them who harm children!

The elders, GB members aren’t the police, or any kind of legal authoritarians.
They are supposed to stand by God’s law and because they’ve went about handling all these matters their way instead of Jehovah’s way, they will no doubt suffer the consequences!

“Pride is before a crash!”
Like Robert stated in one of his videos; elders are not trained investigators. Plus, they are not neutral, especially when it comes to a fellow elder. So whatever spin the GB wants to give this, they are handling it wrong by avoiding the authorities.
And indeed their pride will cost them dearly.
 

StillA_WorshiperOfJah

Well-known member
I know the name jack barr from the 1980s. My parents were good friends with a sister in a London cong who’s late husband was annointed, the name jack Barr came up a lot in their conversations. I was only young at the time, but even then it was almost hero worshipping!
Yes he used to give talks at the district conventions at Twickenham, back in the day
 

Paz

Well-known member
Aren’t we suppose to report felonies to the police? Isn’t that one of those things that we pay back to Caesar? If so, wouldn’t that be a command from God they’ve overstepped?

I‘m just wondering….because by them taking serious matters such as this into their own hands,they’ve done so to protect wickedness and the innocent are oppressed and scarred for life.

As far as their made up two witness rule for something as serious as this, Deuteronomy 22:25-27 reads - 25 “If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die himself, 26 and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. 27 For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there no one to rescue her.”

Were there any other witnesses to this offense?
Hi Ms Ladyblue, I agree you put it just right, that is why elders who form kangaroo courts have no respect for Christ who made it clear that superior authorities were Caesar so for them to foolishly try to follow crazy orders from the GB that do not give ‘Caesars things to Caesar’, criminal acts must be reported as you say to the local police authorities failure is to disobey Christs instruction. It’s apostate action & insights corrupt power hungry elders to abuse the brothers creating a climate of fear within the congregation some even being tempted to abuse defenceless children, believing they can get away with it, much of the time they have, with wt lawyers defending them, how disgusting. Regards Paz
 
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