The Great Tribulation, The Last Days, The Lords Prayer. What are you awaiting next?

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I believe Robert in essence means "for the most part". Obviously, even Robert doesn't know categorically whether "any" of those alive, born in, mature, change of heart, etc "during" the 1,260 days can or cannot still find salvation. I do believe it will be "harder" to. But I would argue on God's compassion and common sense and the fact that 3.5 years is a long period that will generate people with heart/mind shifts, spouses, children growing into adulthood, babies born etc....that I'd say it is possible for ones to choose Christ. That being said, based on scripture in Revelation stating no one would be able to buy or sell without getting the mark of the beast and that because "they would not give up their fornication and spiritistic practices ", that the majority will not desire to convert. But we can't forget the "mixed company" that adjoining Israel via its Exodus from Egypt. I think its too cut and dry , not practical and would be presumptuous to be adamant in saying "not ONE single soul" post Great Tribulation WILL NOT find salvation.

Absolutely so Jehu. The attributes of the spirit in their judgement, see, feel and know the heart of man in a way that we can but dream of in this day when justice has flown in the wind and cannot be found. As the world spirals out of control, I find that acceptance of ‘what will be, will be” a far easier path to travel and accept because the coming inspection by Jehovah and Christ is beyond not only our insight and understanding, but beyond our limitations to assume what is justice other than in the obvious. Jehovah is the one seeing the end from the beginning. We will be surprised I am certain as to whom will go through the tribulation - all the more so if it will be our self.

 

[Watchman]

This is hard to assimilate. What test or action during the GT qualifies those whom live through the Great Tribulation to be counted as righteous?

What about where Jesus said "since you fed, clothed and cared for these (The Chosen Ones), you did it to me. How can that be fulfilled during the GT if they haven't been fully identified until at the end of the GT and as they fulfill their role as the Two Witnesses?

3.5 years is a long time to nurture many different types of humans, hearts, personalities. Young, old, adults, children, new borns, neighbors, etc etc. What is the point of calling it a "test", if no one is given the chance to choose?

People will be allowed to demonstrate their animosity towards God to justify their own destruction

But the rest of the people who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands; they did not stop worshipping the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders nor their spiritistic practices nor of their sexual immorality nor of their thefts. - Rev 9:20-21

The fourth one poured out his bowl on the sun, and to the sun it was granted to scorch the people with fire. And the people were scorched by the great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent and give glory to him. - Rev 16:8-9

The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain, but they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works. - Rev 16:10-11

 

[Bk Kevin]

I believe Robert in essence means "for the most part". Obviously, even Robert doesn't know categorically whether "any" of those alive, born in, mature, change of heart, etc "during" the 1,260 days can or cannot still find salvation. I do believe it will be "harder" to. But I would argue on God's compassion and common sense and the fact that 3.5 years is a long period that will generate people with heart/mind shifts, spouses, children growing into adulthood, babies born etc....that I'd say it is possible for ones to choose Christ. That being said, based on scripture in Revelation stating no one would be able to buy or sell without getting the mark of the beast and that because "they would not give up their fornication and spiritistic practices ", that the majority will not desire to convert. But we can't forget the "mixed company" that adjoining Israel via its Exodus from Egypt. I think its too cut and dry , not practical and would be presumptuous to be adamant in saying "not ONE single soul" post Great Tribulation WILL NOT find salvation.

You have a good point there.

For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy upon whomever I do have mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I do show compassion.”+ Romans 9:15

 

[SusanB]

This is hard to assimilate. What test or action during the GT qualifies those whom live through the Great Tribulation to be counted as righteous?

What about where Jesus said "since you fed, clothed and cared for these (The Chosen Ones), you did it to me. How can that be fulfilled during the GT if they haven't been fully identified until at the end of the GT and as they fulfill their role as the Two Witnesses?

3.5 years is a long time to nurture many different types of humans, hearts, personalities. Young, old, adults, children, new borns, neighbors, etc etc. What is the point of calling it a "test", if no one is given the chance to choose?

But they will reveal what is in their hearts by how they react to the sealed anointed chosen ones. Obviously there must be a time frame of some duration for people to have the opportunity to act. No doubt it will be much like with the vaccine where we saw what people are truly made of. It came out under the stress and fear and I think we were all surprised by the actions of people we thought we knew. As Brooklyn Kevin noted (perhaps on another thread) Jesus said the Kingdom of God is coming but not with striking observableness. No doubt some initially will not realize they are dealing with a Chosen One until later.

Matthew 25:31-40: “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”

Luke 17:20: “On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: ‘The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; nor will people say, “See here!” or, “There!” For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.’”

Luke 10:25-37: “Now look! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him and said: ‘Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life?’ He said to him: ‘What is written in the Law? How do you read?’ In answer he said: ‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ He said to him: ‘You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.’ But wanting to prove himself righteous, the man said to Jesus: ‘Who really is my neighbor?’ In reply Jesus said: ‘A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jerʹi·cho and fell victim to robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went off, leaving him half-dead. Now by coincidence a priest was going down on that road, but when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side. Likewise, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the opposite side. But a certain Sa·marʹi·tani traveling the road came upon him, and at seeing him, he was moved with pity. So he approached him and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. Then he mounted him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two de·narʹi·i, gave them to the innkeeper, and said: “Take care of him, and whatever you spend besides this, I will repay you when I return.” Who of these three seems to you to have made himself neighbor to the man who fell victim to the robbers?’ He said: ‘The one who acted mercifully toward him.’ Jesus then said to him: ‘Go and do the same yourself.’”

 

[TheJehuChariot]

People will be allowed to demonstrate their animosity towards God to justify their own destruction

But the rest of the people who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands; they did not stop worshipping the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders nor their spiritistic practices nor of their sexual immorality nor of their thefts. - Rev 9:20-21

The fourth one poured out his bowl on the sun, and to the sun it was granted to scorch the people with fire. And the people were scorched by the great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent and give glory to him. - Rev 16:8-9

The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain, but they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works. - Rev 16:10-11

If a scientific study of a room full of 1000 people were told to choose door "A" or door "B", and 900 chose door "A" and only 100 chose door "B", would you write the report as saying "the group" chose Door "A"? The word "they" in these verses is meant to represent "millions upon millions" right? Firstly, don't these verses apply within the final 1,260 days and not the great tribulation? And the idea preached that not even a marginal amount of people (though not the masses) could choose to side with Christ people before Armageddon is bewildering. Does "they" encapsulate every individual human soul alive? Or is it a majority collective description?

 

[Watchman]

If a scientific study of a room full of 1000 people were told to choose door "A" or door "B", and 900 chose door "A" and only 100 chose door "B", would you write the report as saying "the group" chose Door "A"? The word "they" in these verses is meant to represent "millions upon millions" right? Firstly, don't these verses apply within the final 1,260 days and not the great tribulation? And the idea preached that not even a marginal amount of people (though not the masses) could choose to side with Christ people before Armageddon is bewildering. Does "they" encapsulate every individual human soul alive? Or is it a majority collective description?

The Watchtower has swung all the way to the other side. Now they are saying that even after Babylon the Great is destroyed, people will still have an opportunity to repent. This repudiates everything the Watchtower has taught about getting out of Babylon before it is too late. Sure, God is merciful but it is a limited time offer. I am going to stick with what God's word tells us, that "today is the day of salvation." Also, God said through Zephaniah, "Seek Jehovah, seek meekness, seek rightousness, perhaps you will be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger."

 

[TheJehuChariot]

The Watchtower has swung all the way to the other side. Now they are saying that even after Babylon the Great is destroyed, people will still have an opportunity to repent. This repudiates everything the Watchtower has taught about getting out of Babylon before it is too late. Sure, God is merciful but it is a limited time offer. I am going to stick with what God's word tells us, that "today is the day of salvation." Also, God said through Zephaniah, "Seek Jehovah, seek meekness, seek rightousness, perhaps you will be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger."

I agree Robert. Point to consider: Jehovahs anger is directly shown/manifested by Him personally at Armageddon when he wages war against the nation and its military commanders. Obviously, once the Chosen have been made manifest after the GT, announcing the arrival of Christ and his kingdom, Jehovahs name will become known to an even greater extent during the last days. If Watchtower was to be graded on how well they have declared Jehovahs name and his kingdom over the last 111 years, I'd grade them a D - minus. Sitting on a corner with a cart the last decade is how to get the message out? How many billions have never heard the message about the kingdom (specifically Jehovah) due to Watchtowers impotents efforts. Sure they have a website that translates hundreds of languages and hundreds of bibles. But why did they never fully utilize Television, cable, Radio air waves, etc etc rather than just having a jw.org website? Maybe im wrong, but I sense The Chosen Ones will declare Jehovahs name in a way like never before.

 

[Watchman]

I agree Robert. Point to consider: Jehovahs anger is directly shown/manifested by Him personally at Armageddon when he wages war against the nation and its military commanders. Obviously, once the Chosen have been made manifest after the GT, announcing the arrival of Christ and his kingdom, Jehovahs name will become known to an even greater extent during the last days. If Watchtower was to be graded on how well they have declared Jehovahs name and his kingdom over the last 111 years, I'd grade them a D - minus. Sitting on a corner with a cart the last decade is how to get the message out? How many billions have never heard the message about the kingdom (specifically Jehovah) due to Watchtowers impotents efforts. Sure they have a website that translates hundreds of languages and hundreds of bibles. But why did they never fully utilize Television, cable, Radio air waves, etc etc rather than just having a jw.org website? Maybe im wrong, but I sense The Chosen Ones will declare Jehovahs name in a way like never before.

That is a common fallacy among Jehovah's Witnesses. The day of Jehovah's anger begins with the coming of Christ.

 

[Brother potato]

The purpose of God allowing a post-tribulation period of 3.5 years is to impose a test upon mankind. Because at that time, it should be apparent that Christ is ruling concurrently with Satan. No doubt, Satan will provide certain inducements and coercion to deceive people into supporting his kingdom. Revelation says no one will be able to buy or sell unless they bow to the beast. So, in that respect, there will be food shortages, man-made. Perhaps the Devil will unleash some sort of deadly designer microbe and then provide an antidote, available only to those who bow to the beast. Gonna be a fun time, those 42 months.

Bring it on baby, the potato is ready!!!

 

[TheJehuChariot]

That is a common fallacy among Jehovah's Witnesses. The day of Jehovah's anger begins with the coming of Christ.

Jehovahs anger becomes manifest with the coming of Christ yes, but it is specifically felt and more relatively expressed at the battle of Armageddon when He through Jesus directly destroys the nations, the kings, commanders, thieves, spiritistic and immoral practicers. But just maybe, there will be a new born baby, teenager, Mongolian villager, an Aboroginee, deaf person, blind person, quadlapregic, retard, humble person, your neighbor, a farmer, granny, drug addicts, homeless, downtroddden, in prison, "somebody".... who will hear about Jehovah and respond favorably once the Chosen are identified and go forth. It's absurd to think every single itzsy bittzy single human on the planet , including the categories I just listed will have truly heard about Jehovah during the Great Tribulation alone, have been baptized etc etc. Watchtower may have swung to the other side, but even they say if a person is not a baptized JW you ain't making it. Id say that hoping for Jehovahs broader mercy is more Christlike rather then being absolute in deathly condemnation as if it's something to look forward to. Death for the wicked yes, but to the others who haven't had a proper chance, no. I guess personally that's the "Lot" in me.

 

[TheJehuChariot]

The Watchtower has swung all the way to the other side. Now they are saying that even after Babylon the Great is destroyed, people will still have an opportunity to repent. This repudiates everything the Watchtower has taught about getting out of Babylon before it is too late. Sure, God is merciful but it is a limited time offer. I am going to stick with what God's word tells us, that "today is the day of salvation." Also, God said through Zephaniah, "Seek Jehovah, seek meekness, seek rightousness, perhaps you will be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger."

@Watchman In your last video @ 29:30 you made one of the most profound, insightful and common sense statements: "Jesus is not going to just show up and start slaughtering people". And then you went on to make the point that Jesus arriving enacted "the hour of test" and how Satan is going to "turn the heat up" on everyone not being able to buy and sell, etc. We'll, from hearing what you said there, unless that's a Freudian slip , it seems to adjoin with the thought that maybe after the Great Tribulation there will be people who have the opportunity to side with Christ prior to Armageddon. That is what a test is right?

 

[Watchman]

@Watchman In your last video @ 29:30 you made one of the most profound, insightful and common sense statements: "Jesus is not going to just show up and start slaughtering people". And then you went on to make the point that Jesus arriving enacted "the hour of test" and how Satan is going to "turn the heat up" on everyone not being able to buy and sell, etc. We'll, from hearing what you said there, unless that's a Freudian slip , it seems to adjoin with the thought that maybe after the Great Tribulation there will be people who have the opportunity to side with Christ prior to Armageddon. That is what a test is right?

War, famine, and pestilence, preceding the tribulation, is the "come to Jesus" phase. After that, after the tribulation is cut short, the door will be closed.

 

[TheJehuChariot]

War, famine, and pestilence, preceding the tribulation, is the "come to Jesus" phase. After that, after the tribulation is cut short, the door will be closed.

@Watchman Robert, what do you mean by "preceding" the tribulation? "Preceding" means "before. How does war, famine and pestilence come "before" the tribulation if war, famine and pestilence IS the tribulation? Sorry for my confusion

 

[Paradise]

Robert, what do you mean by "preceding" the tribulation? "Preceding" means "before. How does war, famine and pestilence come "before" the tribulation if war, famine and pestilence IS the tribulation? Sorry for my confusion

According to REV chap 6 - The first, second and third seals being opened bring war, pestilence and famine. The great tribulation starts with the opening of the sixth seal.

 

[Nomex]

Answer: The destruction of false religion. To the reasonable person, there is nothing in the news or geo political environment that suggests any sort of world wide religious attack and decimation by the beasts.

It occurs to me when reading this just now, and in fact I am posting this comment immediately so I don't forget my thought, that it may well be, that Jehovah may "put it in their hearts" when that does happen, because he won't allow people to claim, "we thought we were worshiping you." (Jehovah God) But the truth is they were serving Satan, and as one person posted the other day, Albert Pikes whole layout how they were planning to bring WWIII, and how it would eliminate the Jews and Muslims, and leave "Christians exposed and weakened". One of WT's fundamental flaws has been that they never try to reason out why Jehovah would do certain things, and try to make them align with what we know about his personality. It's not until after the GT as you so rightly point out, that the infrastructure or the desire to pull something like that doesn't exist right now. And it might very well be, that it plays out just like Pike said, and the survivors blame Evangelical Christians for the mess that destroyed a significant portion of the earth's population.

 

[Bk Kevin]

According to REV chap 6 - The first, second and third seals being opened bring war, pestilence and famine. The great tribulation starts with the opening of the sixth seal.

Some scriptures to go along with your thought.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened,+ and the moon+ will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.+ And then the sign of the Son of man+ will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation,+ Matthew 24:29-30

Revelation 7:14​

So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation,a and they have washed their robes and made them whiteb in the bloodc of the Lamb.

Daniel 12:1​

12 “And during that time Miʹcha·el*a will stand up,b the great prince*c who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people.d And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.e And during that time your people will escape,f every one who is found written down in the book.

Daniel 7:14​

And to him there were given rulershipa and dignityb and kingdom,*c that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.d His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.e

​

​

 

[TheJehuChariot]

According to REV chap 6 - The first, second and third seals being opened bring war, pestilence and famine. The great tribulation starts with the opening of the sixth seal.

What is "Tribulation" to you? Define it please

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

This is hard to assimilate. What test or action during the GT qualifies those whom live through the Great Tribulation to be counted as righteous?

What about where Jesus said "since you fed, clothed and cared for these (The Chosen Ones), you did it to me. How can that be fulfilled during the GT if they haven't been fully identified until at the end of the GT and as they fulfill their role as the Two Witnesses?

3.5 years is a long time to nurture many different types of humans, hearts, personalities. Young, old, adults, children, new borns, neighbors, etc etc. What is the point of calling it a "test", if no one is given the chance to choose?

Surely the example we have today with the anointed provides an answer? We ourselves do not know who is anointed as you point out and if we listen to the GB and their claims of being anointed …..well, if I was still in the congregation, I would feel compelled to go out upon a spree of “….eating and drinking for tomorrow we die”. The fact is we would feed and clothe all our brethren. It is our attitude not our gifts that demonstrate our mettle. The widow’s mite refers to it. And we can even today, identify those who truly demonstrate their calling but who can say which of them is chosen or called? It should not make any difference at all. Just as with the angels that called unannounced at Sodom in its last days and Lot who insisted on sheltering them rather than let them sleep in the square - even offering his daughters to the crowd outside of his house.

This is what the oil we have put by should inform us of. None will survive without the blessing of Jehovah. We are told meticulously about what will happen to the wicked, but precious little about how we who seek Jehovah will survive other than through what we have put by spiritually for ourselves. But it does not make sense to think that while those with the mark of the beast are doing well without hindrance, that those who refuse the mark will not have comfort or protection from Jehovah. Jehovah rewards in “secret” does He not? Why should we not accept that such will be the case with us. Were Jehovah were to openly favour His people where would be the test of faith. Seekers of Jehovah choose with their hearts regardless of any physical reward because there is no value to life without of Jehovah’s spirit - is there?

For those worshipping the beast, the tipping point is when the door is closed - there is where their gnashing of teeth will be. Then the consequences of their choice becomes clear in that it was before them all the time - but whom did they choose? Thus our choice will cost us that leap of faith, but the more we wear of that coat now, the easier it becomes to put it on because it is familiar to us and already tested. “Taste and see that Jehovah is good”. We therefore display that to all who seek Jehovah without discrimination. It’s better that way because it does not involve the desires of the heart for favour or reward. If it is not in our heart to fend for all, then why should it be to fend for another whom is chosen, just for favour. It reminds me of the person who offered Jesus a cup of water during his final journey. It is that selfless act of compassion that carries a reward far more meaningful. The same compassion as with sparrows as far as Jehovah is concerned.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

What is "Tribulation" to you? Define it please

1/ Haemorrhoids.
2/ American “comedy”.
3/ Starmer.
4/ The price of decent English cheese.
5/ The deceit of watchtower.
6/ A welcome release from this world.
7/ Dietary assistance in keeping slim and active. (Starving).
8/ Free heating from Russia with love.
9/ Fishing and/or manna from heaven.
10/ Peace and quiet at last and having a purpose in life.

 

[Watchman]

@Watchman Robert, what do you mean by "preceding" the tribulation? "Preceding" means "before. How does war, famine and pestilence come "before" the tribulation if war, famine and pestilence IS the tribulation? Sorry for my confusion

The seven seals are opened sequentially. The sixth seal is the tribulation.

 

[TheJehuChariot]

The seven seals are opened sequentially. The sixth seal is the tribulation.

So what im asking, is the Great Tribulation a period of calm/time "after" the storm of war, famine and pestilence"? The seal opened of war would be a period of time, the seal of famine doesn't just occur in a day, that's a period of time and pestilence isn't just a day, it's a period of time. Thus having to live during war, experiencing hunger and disease is "Tribulation". So if all of that "precedes" The Tribulation, what's the diffentiation of 4 seals? Aren't they all tribulation?

 

[Watchman]

So what im asking, is the Great Tribulation a period of calm/time "after" the storm of war, famine and pestilence"? The seal opened of war would be a period of time, the seal of famine doesn't just occur in a day, that's a period of time and pestilence isn't just a day, it's a period of time. Thus having to live during war, experiencing hunger and disease is "Tribulation". So if all of that "precedes" The Tribulation, what's the diffentiation of 4 seals? Aren't they all tribulation?

Jesus listed the same series of events beginning with nation rising against nation, and followed by a great tribulation. So, yeah, world war will be a time of tribulation, but it will be capped off by a great tribulation that will necessitate divine intervention to prevent it from becoming an extinction-level event.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

As Christians, the meaning behind praying the Lords prayer Matthew 6:9-10 should increase significantly as we near the end. It should become ever more personal, why? Because as we eye witness world events unfolding, yielding an environment of chaos and instability, the human inner nature is to become worried, scared. However, Jesus told us to "Lift our heads erect, for he is near". Meaning, we should awaken every day excited knowing the kindgdom is closer. Anticipation is one of the best feelings that can motivate a soul. So as the world becomes more and more unstable, we recognize the coming "Kingdom" will fix it. It is the solution. All the while, the masses of humans inner hearts will be leaning on the political beasts of the earth to provide solution. Knowing all too well, human endeavors are failing. And humans are unpredictable and scarey to rely on.

I believe JW's especially get no joy in saying the Lords prayer nor assimilate the significance of it. Why? Because in their heart, it arrived 111 years ago. It's old news. They are not looking to the kingdom to arrive to solve the issue. Every morning, every human has this intrinsic habitual routine. To wake up and "wonder", what will happen today? So what are all JW's expecting to occur next? Answer: The destruction of false religion. To the reasonable person, there is nothing in the news or geo political environment that suggests any sort of world wide religious attack and decimation by the beasts. To the discerning individual, there is no military apparatus in place to even fulfill such an action even if God puts it into their minds. The military apparatus must be in place first for God to direct saids events. Contrarily, all news and speculation is regarding Geo- Political War. Specifically WW3. As blatantly obvious as that is, I don't sense JW's take seriously the rattling of the swords between all the nations nor absorb all of the WW3 vernacular being flung around right. Why? Why wouldnt they? What's the opinion of most on the forum here when you discuss the pending WW3 to fellow Witnesses? Are they feeling anxious and are looking to the Kingdom to solve humans affairs? Or are they merely viewing Jesus return is to save the Witnesses hiding in their bunker fast forward to Armageddon, skipping all of the 4 horseman carnage on the planet?

Isn't that what having expectation in the kingdom is about? To initially "HALT" worldwide cataclysmic destruction (WW3) brought on by humans and Satan's nuclear ambitions to take everybody out? We will all be mentally, emotionally and physically affected when such tribulation unleashes.

Which leads me to my next question. Even tho Jesus said his presence would be as a thief in the night, how is it so thief like to anointed Christians and skirt holding ones, whom are identifying the sign of his presence and whom are also recognizing where Paul stated Peace and Security will be declared? So, as a christian, what do you each individually wake up each morning expecting? Is it:

A) Peace Declaration
B) Nuclear Detonation (WW3).

@Watchman , Robert, the Great Tribulation must be triggered by war, true? So if the GT is a precursor to the Last Days and ride of the horsemen.... how does the red horse come into play during the 1,260 days? IF Gods Kingdom expresses its rule and HALTS the Great Tribulation on account of the Chosen Ones....how is the red horse fulfilled during the 1,260 last days? How does the ride of the horsemen fit in with relation to the GT and last days, if each are seperate incidences and time periods? Correct me where I am wrong. But I believe that is thought being taught here, that the GT is a precursor to the Last Days....? That Jesus presence and beginning of the Last Days begin at the "halting" or cutting short of the GT.

What I can see coming soon is AI completely engulfing everything us humans need to live, including food, water, money (of sorts) medical/health services, all sorts of services, and then people having to get some kind of "mark" digital ID, chip, or whatever they've got planned for us, and if you don't get it, then you'll be locked out of everything. I'm literally watching AI, surveillance, cameras, road closures, and even the shops and supermarkets putting their stuff behind glass or plastic doors, ok, they're not locked, yet... but it's growing, and growing fast. Computer (the beast?) says no..

 

[Patmos]

This is hard to assimilate. What test or action during the GT qualifies those whom live through the Great Tribulation to be counted as righteous?

What about where Jesus said "since you fed, clothed and cared for these (The Chosen Ones), you did it to me. How can that be fulfilled during the GT if they haven't been fully identified until at the end of the GT and as they fulfill their role as the Two Witnesses?

3.5 years is a long time to nurture many different types of humans, hearts, personalities. Young, old, adults, children, new borns, neighbors, etc etc. What is the point of calling it a "test", if no one is given the chance to choose?

If someone only made an effort to worship Jehovah late in the GT, and refused the mark of the beast for the entire 3.5 years, would they be killed at Armageddon?

 

[Nomex]

I'm going to weigh in and point a couple things out. I don't remember if it's in this thread but someone asked about Jesus warning to keep awake and his day coming as a thief. Jesus also said, if you knew what hour the thief was breaking in, you'd stay awake... I'm paraphrasing. But the point here, is Jesus is conveying what would seem like a contradiction if you don't think about it properly. Jesus is saying, The Lord's day is coming as a thief, but he is also saying you can avoid that if you stay awake! In other words, just because the Lord's day does not come as a surprise to us, does NOT negate the fact that to the world indeed Jesus is coming unexpectedly to those who did NOT heed Jesus warning.

So, we have to keep in mind the over all message of the Bible.

Likewise Jesus warning's about the GT can have different meanings for different people. For example, the GT is NOT Armageddon, in other words it is NOT God's judgement on mankind, therefore, it is reasonable to assume some who are killed in the GT, are innocent, will be innocent and therefore resurrected. In like manner, all those who "come out of the GT", include all those who will die in GOD's judgement at the end of the 42 months. In other words, I don't think the phrase, "those who come out of the GT", means what we think it means. Those of us, I think it would be safe to say, are more and or better prepared, we have built on the "rock mass", but what about all our brothers and sisters who have not figured out WT's deception. Isn't part of the point of the GT to discipline Jehovah's people? So, I think some will have an "easier" time of it, based on how well prepared they are.

Any way, I just wanted to point out, everyone who survives the GT "comes out of the GT". So that phrase doesn't mean anything!