The old and the new! AI generated

I appreciate your point about the ministry. I know Witnesses knock on every door and don't skip anyone, and I agree that nobody starts out perfect—it’s a long road for all of us, and none of us really get 'there' until the end of the thousand years.
But what I’m getting at isn't about who gets a knock on the door. It’s more about the attitude once the door is opened. If we’re all supposed to be 'works in progress' seeking God’s help, then it seems like we should be careful about labeling or judging people’s lives before they’ve even had a chance to start that walk. Even if the preaching is impartial, the way people are talked about can still feel like a closed door.
Another thing to consider is the difference between a person’s character and things they just can’t change. A person can work with the spirit to change their temper or their habits, but you can’t just 'change' how your brain is wired or who you are naturally attracted to. It’s been shown that without something like a major head injury, those attractions stay the same.
I believe Jehovah wants us to be happy and to have marriages where both people are pulling together as a team. It reminds me of the spirit behind Acts 15:19, where they decided not to make it difficult for the people of the nations who were turning to God by adding extra burdens. Jesus said his load is light and his yoke is easy. When we demand that people change the way they are physically built, we’re making that load a lot heavier than what God is actually asking of them."
 
I appreciate your point about the ministry. I know Witnesses knock on every door and don't skip anyone, and I agree that nobody starts out perfect—it’s a long road for all of us, and none of us really get 'there' until the end of the thousand years.
But what I’m getting at isn't about who gets a knock on the door. It’s more about the attitude once the door is opened. If we’re all supposed to be 'works in progress' seeking God’s help, then it seems like we should be careful about labeling or judging people’s lives before they’ve even had a chance to start that walk. Even if the preaching is impartial, the way people are talked about can still feel like a closed door.
Another thing to consider is the difference between a person’s character and things they just can’t change. A person can work with the spirit to change their temper or their habits, but you can’t just 'change' how your brain is wired or who you are naturally attracted to. It’s been shown that without something like a major head injury, those attractions stay the same.
I believe Jehovah wants us to be happy and to have marriages where both people are pulling together as a team. It reminds me of the spirit behind Acts 15:19, where they decided not to make it difficult for the people of the nations who were turning to God by adding extra burdens. Jesus said his load is light and his yoke is easy. When we demand that people change the way they are physically built, we’re making that load a lot heavier than what God is actually asking of them."
If the brothers and sisters are gossiping about people, well that's wrong and they know it. I've been out of the org for so long, I've not seen anything like that. That's not to say it doesn't happen. They all well know that building a relationship with Jehovah takes time. So there should be grace and patience.

As far as Jehovah wants us to be happy... Yes he absolutely does. But if you believe that our Holy God will approve or even go along with practicing homosexuality, temporarily (until the new system) I'm sorry, but you believe wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh but I have to be truthful. 1 John 3:6 says, "Everyone remaining in union with him (Jesus) does not practice sin..."

It's the same with any sin, there are not different levels of sin. One is as bad as another. You mentioned that someone can work on their temper, sure, but it's a long road and a daily battle, sometimes involving expensive counseling and/or medications which make a person feel numb. Others experience a daily battle too-- alcoholics, drug abusers, smokers, kleptomaniacs, porn viewers, habitual liars etc--- Should God allow us to practice these things just because it's hard to stop? Again, all sins are equal.
A person may be wired differently and they can't control that but that doesn't change Jehovah or his standards. He doesn't expect us to be perfect but he does expect us to try to be.
None of us get rid of our sins or sinful desires overnight. It's a process. And it might be really hard. Tons of prayer and I do mean tons and a study of God's word. If a person wants to be pleasing to Jehovah, if a person grows to love Jehovah, then they will do what they have come to know Jehovah wants them to do. The apostles gave up their lives, literally. They had a choice. They weren't forced to follow Jesus. And it certainly wasn't easy. What will we give up to stand on Jehovah's side? There is no middle ground. You are either on Jehovah's side or Satan's. Jesus said at Revelation 3:15-16: "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth."
And James said, "Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him."

You might want to spend some time in the book of James, it's full of wise advice.
James 1:5, "So, if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. "
I can appreciate the huge problems and issues that following Jesus would/could cause for someone in a same sex relationship. Think how many people have given up their entire family in order to be faithful to God. Jehovah is near to help.

Hope this gives you something to ponder over.
 
Regarding the use of Revelation 3:15-16 about being 'lukewarm,' I think it’s worth looking at the actual history of that scripture. In the ancient world, the city of Laodicea sat between Hierapolis, which had hot medicinal springs for healing, and Colossae, which had cold refreshing mountain water for drinking. Both hot and cold were good and useful. The problem with the water in Laodicea was that it was stagnant and lukewarm—it served no purpose and provided no benefit.
When we use this verse to say there is 'no middle ground' and that people must either follow a rigid hard-line or be 'vomited out,' we might be misapplying Jesus’ point. Someone wrestling to reconcile their faith with science or their own nature isn't being 'indifferent' or 'lukewarm.' In fact, that struggle is often a sign of deep spiritual heat.
The real danger of being lukewarm, as mentioned in the very next verse (Rev 3:17), is the pride of thinking we have it all figured out and 'do not need anything at all.'
If we hold so tightly to a 2,000-year-old mindset that we ignore the reality of how people are wired, we risk becoming spiritually stagnant. We might be the ones failing to provide the 'healing' or 'refreshing' environment that allows everyone to have a relationship with Jehovah. If we invite people to the door but then demand they change their DNA to stay, are we truly standing on Jehovah’s side of mercy, or are we just standing on the side of tradition?
You mentioned 1 John 3:6 regarding 'practicing sin,' but it’s helpful to look at the balance provided in the very first chapter of that same book. 1 John 1:8 says, 'If we make the statement, "We have no sin," we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.' It seems the message isn't a demand for overnight perfection, but rather a focus on the direction of our hearts. If a person is sincerely reaching out to Jehovah while navigating how they were naturally wired, that is a personal journey of 'remaining in union' that others shouldn't be so quick to judge.
This leads to the idea that 'all sins are equal.' While that’s a common saying, the Bible repeatedly tells us to identify true faith by its 'fruit' (Matthew 7:16). If a couple is living a life full of love, joy, peace, and kindness, yet they are being judged by someone who is technically 'following the rules' but lacks compassion, which one is actually showing the fruit of the spirit?
I also took your advice and spent some time in the book of James. It really is full of wise advice, especially James 2:13: 'For he who does not practice mercy will have his judgment without mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.'
In the end, I think we have to be careful not to build walls where Jehovah wants bridges. If we prioritize rigid rules over the 'mercy' that James highlights, we might be making it impossible for people to have the very relationship with Jehovah that we claim to be inviting them toward.
 
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but you can’t just 'change' how your brain is wired or who you are naturally attracted to.
We can indeed, not overnight, but gradually and over a period of time, we've just got to WANT to, if we don't WANT to then Jehovah says we don't HAVE to, we can eat, drink and be merry before we die, like many people in the world are happy to do..
 
I want to share that my goal in these discussions isn't to create division or 'mix things up' for the sake of it. My heart is really focused on building bridges. I think we all agree that the invitation to know Jehovah should be as wide as possible, but I worry that sometimes the walls we’ve built around our traditions make it hard for people to actually walk through the door.
My hope is that we can look for ways to break down those barriers so that everyone—regardless of how they are wired or the struggles they face—can feel they have a direct path to a relationship with their Creator. I’m just trying to stand on the side of mercy and patience, trusting that Jehovah is big enough to guide each person's heart. I’m not looking to separate anyone from the faith; I’m looking for ways to make sure no one feels excluded from it.
 
A person may be wired differently and they can't control that
I don't believe in that "wired differently" saying, it's quite a recent phrase, and absolves the "differently wired" person from whatever it is they want to be absolved from. Also, if it was a real, physical thing, you know, we've got wires in our heads and they're plugged into the wrong sockets so to speak, then where does it leave that scripture in James that talks about each one being drawn away by his OWN lust or desires? In other words, we've all got our own different desires or temptations and it's down to ourselves to try and get the mastery over them, not say "but I'm DIFFERENT, so I shouldn't have to change" no, we're all in the same boat and we can choose to try and serve Jehovah or not. I'm always shocked at how many exjws on the Reddit forum, when they stop going to meetings, go out and try and cram in as much "sin" as possible! They get some kind of newly found "freedom" But, that's the choice Jehovah gives us, and it's a very fair choice, But in the words of Freddie Mercury, some people just want it all, and want it now.
 
We can indeed, not overnight, but gradually and over a period of time, we've just got to WANT to, if we don't WANT to then Jehovah says we don't HAVE to, we can eat, drink and be merry before we die, like many people in the world are happy to do..
Comparing a person’s identity to simply 'eating and drinking' misses the depth of the struggle. It isn't always a matter of someone not 'wanting' to please Jehovah; it’s about the reality of our shared human inheritance.
We are all products of procreation stretching back thousands of years to Adam. Through that long process, there has been a natural degradation—a biological entropy. We are all born with different wiring, different predispositions, and different physical realities that we did not choose.
To suggest that a person can simply 'willpower' their way out of their basic biological makeup is to ignore how far we have drifted from perfection. If we make a relationship with Jehovah dependent on fixing our 'degradation' ourselves, then none of us would stand a chance. We should be showing patience for how people are actually born and procreated today, rather than judging them for not being able to flip a switch on their own nature.
It’s like asking someone to change their height, their eye color, or any other trait that is predetermined through their DNA. We wouldn't tell a person that they just need to 'want it enough' to change those physical realities, yet we often apply that exact logic to how a person is wired to love and connect. If our DNA is a result of that long line of procreation and degradation, then we have to accept that some things aren't a matter of willpower—they are a matter of how we were born. Expecting someone to 'pray away' their genetic makeup is not only scientifically impossible, it places a burden on them that ignores the reality of the human condition."
 
I don't believe in that "wired differently" saying, it's quite a recent phrase, and absolves the "differently wired" person from whatever it is they want to be absolved from. Also, if it was a real, physical thing, you know, we've got wires in our heads and they're plugged into the wrong sockets so to speak, then where does it leave that scripture in James that talks about each one being drawn away by his OWN lust or desires? In other words, we've all got our own different desires or temptations and it's down to ourselves to try and get the mastery over them, not say "but I'm DIFFERENT, so I shouldn't have to change" no, we're all in the same boat and we can choose to try and serve Jehovah or not. I'm always shocked at how many exjws on the Reddit forum, when they stop going to meetings, go out and try and cram in as much "sin" as possible! They get some kind of newly found "freedom" But, that's the choice Jehovah gives us, and it's a very fair choice, But in the words of Freddie Mercury, some people just want it all, and want it now.
The phrase 'wired differently' might be relatively new, but the reality it describes is as old as humanity. We now have MRI scans and decades of peer-reviewed neurological research that show our brains are not just 'plugged into sockets'—they are complex biological organs. To dismiss that as a 'saying' is to ignore the very tools Jehovah has allowed us to develop to understand his creation.
Regarding James 1:14, that scripture talks about being 'drawn away by his own desire.' But there is a massive difference between a 'fleeting desire' or a 'lust' and a person’s fundamental orientation and capacity for love. We don't tell a heterosexual person that their desire for a spouse is a 'lust they must master'; we call it a natural part of who they are. Why do we change the definition just because the person is 'wired' differently?
Comparing someone's search for a lifelong, loving partnership to ' Freddie Mercury wanting it all' or people on Reddit 'cramming in sin' is a bit of a straw man argument. It’s not about wanting 'freedom to sin'—it’s about the freedom to be the person Jehovah procreated us to be without being told our very nature is a defect we have to 'get the mastery over' just to be loved by our Creator.
If we are all in the same boat, as you say, then the boat should be big enough for everyone's reality, not just the reality that fits a traditional mold. Trusting in Jehovah’s fairness means trusting that He understands our DNA and our hearts far better than a 2,000-year-old tradition does.
 
Comparing a person’s identity to simply 'eating and drinking' misses the depth of the struggle. It isn't always a matter of someone not 'wanting' to please Jehovah; it’s about the reality of our shared human inheritance.
We are all products of procreation stretching back thousands of years to Adam. Through that long process, there has been a natural degradation—a biological entropy. We are all born with different wiring, different predispositions, and different physical realities that we did not choose.
To suggest that a person can simply 'willpower' their way out of their basic biological makeup is to ignore how far we have drifted from perfection. If we make a relationship with Jehovah dependent on fixing our 'degradation' ourselves, then none of us would stand a chance. We should be showing patience for how people are actually born and procreated today, rather than judging them for not being able to flip a switch on their own nature.
It’s like asking someone to change their height, their eye color, or any other trait that is predetermined through their DNA. We wouldn't tell a person that they just need to 'want it enough' to change those physical realities, yet we often apply that exact logic to how a person is wired to love and connect. If our DNA is a result of that long line of procreation and degradation, then we have to accept that some things aren't a matter of willpower—they are a matter of how we were born. Expecting someone to 'pray away' their genetic makeup is not only scientifically impossible, it places a burden on them that ignores the reality of the human condition."
I don't believe for one moment that Jehovah would ask us to try and do something that he knew was a pointless escapade. Millions of others have been in the same boat, in fact, we're all in the same boat and I've witnessed massive changes in people's thoughts and behaviour due to their love of Jehovah. It's not a complicated thing to do, just very difficult, but the more we practice working on our own issues, the easier it becomes. We might well fall down 77 times, but we can stand back up 78 😁
 
When we look at Sodom and Gomorrah, it’s important to see the difference between violence and commitment. The men in that story were a mob attempting a violent assault; they were 'violently inflamed' in a way that had nothing to do with love or companionship. Ezekiel 16:49 actually says the sin of Sodom was pride, greed, and a lack of care for the poor.
Comparing a violent mob to a same-sex couple today who wants to build a life of love and faith is like comparing a bank robber to someone who is just trying to pay their bills. Just as a married man should stay focused on his wife and not be 'inflamed' by others, a same-sex couple can show that same mastery and faithfulness to each other.
The 'deviation' in Sodom was a total collapse of human decency and hospitality. Using that story to judge people who are simply 'wired' to seek companionship with the same sex misses the point of why that city was destroyed. It was destroyed for its cruelty, not for its DNA.
 
I don't believe for one moment that Jehovah would ask us to try and do something that he knew was a pointless escapade. Millions of others have been in the same boat, in fact, we're all in the same boat and I've witnessed massive changes in people's thoughts and behaviour due to their love of Jehovah. It's not a complicated thing to do, just very difficult, but the more we practice working on our own issues, the easier it becomes. We might well fall down 77 times, but we can stand back up 78 😁
It’s true that love for Jehovah can motivate us to change our behavior, but there is a fundamental difference between changing a behavior and changing your nature. We can work on a temper, or stop a bad habit, because those are things we do. But who we are attracted to and how we are wired to love is part of who we are.
When you say we can 'stand back up 78 times,' it implies that the desire for a same-sex companion is a 'fall.' But if a person is living a life of integrity, kindness, and faith, what exactly are they falling from? If the 'change' we are asking for requires someone to live a life of forced loneliness or to deny their DNA, then we aren't asking them to 'overcome an issue'—we are asking them to perform a biological miracle.
Jehovah certainly doesn't ask us to go on a 'pointless escapade.' But perhaps the point isn't for us to change our DNA to fit a tradition; perhaps the point is for us to grow in a relationship with Him as we truly are. If we believe that only those who can 'fix' their biology are worthy of His love, then we are making his grace much smaller than the Bible describes it.
 
I don't believe for one moment that Jehovah would ask us to try and do something that he knew was a pointless escapade. Millions of others have been in the same boat, in fact, we're all in the same boat and I've witnessed massive changes in people's thoughts and behaviour due to their love of Jehovah. It's not a complicated thing to do, just very difficult, but the more we practice working on our own issues, the easier it becomes. We might well fall down 77 times, but we can stand back up 78 😁
You mentioned that 'it’s not a complicated thing to do,' but it’s very easy to say that when you aren't the one being asked to sacrifice your entire identity. For someone whose life fits the traditional mold, following these rules might feel like a simple matter of willpower. But for those wired differently through the long process of procreation and degradation we discussed, you aren't asking them to just 'fix a habit'—you are asking them to live a life of forced isolation and to deny their very nature.
When we simplify someone else’s deep, biological struggle into a 'simple choice,' we risk losing the very empathy that Jesus showed. He didn't tell people their burdens were 'simple'; he offered to help carry them. If our version of faith requires a person to perform a biological miracle just to be accepted, then we’ve made the 'narrow gate' about DNA rather than about the heart. We should be careful not to call something 'simple' just because we aren't the ones carrying the weight of it.
 
; I’m looking for ways to make sure no one feels excluded from it
Keep it between you and Jehovah and he'll help you.. I could quite easily build a big argument for smoking cannabis every day of my life but I definitely wouldn't keep trying to get everyone on this forum to agree with me, or quote scriptures to justify it. It's like the gay community, they were so determined to get the church to allow them to "marry" eachother, because they know that marriage was originally instituted by God, so, if they could get the church to agree with them then that would mean God was agreeing to gays getting married and then their consciences would be "eased" Well, they got their wish, but did it ease their consciences? Nope.. they need to get rid of the Bible itself AND those that take it seriously.. that day is coming.. 😬
 
When we look at Sodom and Gomorrah, it’s important to see the difference between violence and commitment. The men in that story were a mob attempting a violent assault; they were 'violently inflamed' in a way that had nothing to do with love or companionship. Ezekiel 16:49 actually says the sin of Sodom was pride, greed, and a lack of care for the poor.
Comparing a violent mob to a same-sex couple today who wants to build a life of love and faith is like comparing a bank robber to someone who is just trying to pay their bills. Just as a married man should stay focused on his wife and not be 'inflamed' by others, a same-sex couple can show that same mastery and faithfulness to each other.
The 'deviation' in Sodom was a total collapse of human decency and hospitality. Using that story to judge people who are simply 'wired' to seek companionship with the same sex misses the point of why that city was destroyed. It was destroyed for its cruelty, not for its DNA.
Who's using the Sodom and Gommorah story to judge anyone?
 
It’s true that love for Jehovah can motivate us to change our behavior, but there is a fundamental difference between changing a behavior and changing your nature. We can work on a temper, or stop a bad habit, because those are things we do. But who we are attracted to and how we are wired to love is part of who we are.
When you say we can 'stand back up 78 times,' it implies that the desire for a same-sex companion is a 'fall.' But if a person is living a life of integrity, kindness, and faith, what exactly are they falling from? If the 'change' we are asking for requires someone to live a life of forced loneliness or to deny their DNA, then we aren't asking them to 'overcome an issue'—we are asking them to perform a biological miracle.
Jehovah certainly doesn't ask us to go on a 'pointless escapade.' But perhaps the point isn't for us to change our DNA to fit a tradition; perhaps the point is for us to grow in a relationship with Him as we truly are. If we believe that only those who can 'fix' their biology are worthy of His love, then we are making his grace much smaller than the Bible describes it.
At the end of the day Dgibson, you need to take your issue up with Jehovah, it's HE that condemns us for this, that or the t'other so it's to him we ought to argue with. I'm pretty sure none of us on this forum is going to change God's laws, we've just left a group of men who are doing just that! 🤣
 
Keep it between you and Jehovah and he'll help you.. I could quite easily build a big argument for smoking cannabis every day of my life but I definitely wouldn't keep trying to get everyone on this forum to agree with me, or quote scriptures to justify it. It's like the gay community, they were so determined to get the church to allow them to "marry" eachother, because they know that marriage was originally instituted by God, so, if they could get the church to agree with them then that would mean God was agreeing to gays getting married and then their consciences would be "eased" Well, they got their wish, but did it ease their consciences? Nope.. they need to get rid of the Bible itself AND those that take it seriously.. that day is coming.. 😬
Comparing a fundamental human orientation to a choice like smoking cannabis is like comparing a person’s need for air to a hobby. One is a biological reality; the other is a lifestyle choice.
You mentioned that people wanted marriage just to 'ease their consciences,' but you’re overlooking the very real, practical reasons why legal recognition was so important. For decades, same-sex partners were treated like strangers by the law and by hospitals. People were barred from the bedsides of their dying partners, and families often discriminated against them, leaving them with no security or standing after a lifetime of commitment. Seeking marriage was about ending that cruelty and ensuring that those who love each other have the same protections and dignity as anyone else.
It isn’t about a hidden agenda to 'get rid of the Bible.' It’s about the fact that if science and our DNA show us how we are wired, then our conscience should be troubled when our traditions don't match that reality. Most people in the 'middle ground' aren't fighting against Jehovah—they are simply asking for the same mercy and security that every other human being deserves. They are fighting to be seen as the people they actually are, rather than as a 'mistake' that needs to be fixed or hidden away.
 
you are asking them to live a life of forced isolation and to deny their very nature.
I don't ask ANYONE to do ANYTHING.. you need to tell Jehovah he's wrong and see if he'll make an "allowance" for you.. although I've never seen him make allowances for anyone in the past..
 
At the end of the day Dgibson, you need to take your issue up with Jehovah, it's HE that condemns us for this, that or the t'other so it's to him we ought to argue with. I'm pretty sure none of us on this forum is going to change God's laws, we've just left a group of men who are doing just that! 🤣
I agree that at the end of the day, we all stand before Jehovah. That is exactly why I’m raising these points. If we believe that He is the one who 'procreated' us with our unique DNA, then we have to ask ourselves if we are correctly representing His laws when we use them to push people away or simplify their biological reality into a 'choice.'
I’m not trying to change God's laws; I’m trying to understand them through the lens of the mercy and science He has allowed us to see. We did indeed leave a group of men who were making up their own rules, but we should be careful not to fall into that same trap by making our own personal traditions the 'law' for everyone else.
If my 'issue' is standing up for the unapproachable and the misunderstood, then I am more than happy to take that up with Jehovah. I trust that He sees the heart and the DNA He created far more clearly than any of us on a forum ever will. I appreciate the conversation, and I’ll leave it there.
 
Comparing a fundamental human orientation to a choice like smoking cannabis is like comparing a person’s need for air to a hobby. One is a biological reality; the other is a lifestyle choice.
You mentioned that people wanted marriage just to 'ease their consciences,' but you’re overlooking the very real, practical reasons why legal recognition was so important. For decades, same-sex partners were treated like strangers by the law and by hospitals. People were barred from the bedsides of their dying partners, and families often discriminated against them, leaving them with no security or standing after a lifetime of commitment. Seeking marriage was about ending that cruelty and ensuring that those who love each other have the same protections and dignity as anyone else.
It isn’t about a hidden agenda to 'get rid of the Bible.' It’s about the fact that if science and our DNA show us how we are wired, then our conscience should be troubled when our traditions don't match that reality. Most people in the 'middle ground' aren't fighting against Jehovah—they are simply asking for the same mercy and security that every other human being deserves. They are fighting to be seen as the people they actually are, rather than as a 'mistake' that needs to be fixed or hidden away.
Well, you sound like you've got everything sussed out, so just carry on living your life the way YOU want to live it, and be happy, there really is no need to try and make everyone else agree with you, you only need Jehovah to agree with you, his opinion is the only one that really matters 👍
 
I don't believe in that "wired differently" saying, it's quite a recent phrase, and absolves the "differently wired" person from whatever it is they want to be absolved from. Also, if it was a real, physical thing, you know, we've got wires in our heads and they're plugged into the wrong sockets so to speak, then where does it leave that scripture in James that talks about each one being drawn away by his OWN lust or desires? In other words, we've all got our own different desires or temptations and it's down to ourselves to try and get the mastery over them, not say "but I'm DIFFERENT, so I shouldn't have to change" no, we're all in the same boat and we can choose to try and serve Jehovah or not. I'm always shocked at how many exjws on the Reddit forum, when they stop going to meetings, go out and try and cram in as much "sin" as possible! They get some kind of newly found "freedom" But, that's the choice Jehovah gives us, and it's a very fair choice, But in the words of Freddie Mercury, some people just want it all, and want it now.
Oh I absolutely agree that we are all in the same boat. We all are tempted and tested by our desires. And I agree, if we want a relationship with Jehovah we have to follow his rules. We're not perfect yet but we do the best we can.
But there is something to being attracted to someone of the same sex that is 🤔, for lack of a better word, different. Not literally the wiring, more like something messed up in hormones, honestly I don't know. But it is something beyond a choice as far as the attraction and desire is concerned. I don't have that desire so I can really speak to it but that's my understanding from second hand accounts. Acting on that desire is where the choice comes in. To agree with Jehovah or not.
 
Oh I absolutely agree that we are all in the same boat. We all are tempted and tested by our desires. And I agree, if we want a relationship with Jehovah we have to follow his rules. We're not perfect yet but we do the best we can.
But there is something to being attracted to someone of the same sex that is 🤔, for lack of a better word, different. Not literally the wiring, more like something messed up in hormones, honestly I don't know. But it is something beyond a choice as far as the attraction and desire is concerned. I don't have that desire so I can really speak to it but that's my understanding from second hand accounts. Acting on that desire is where the choice comes in. To agree with Jehovah or not.
Yeah, pdf's/minor attracted people say the same thing about their attraction to kids, and "straight" men and women say the same thing about why they don't have any control over their desires. If Jehovah thought it couldn't be done, he wouldn't ask for it..
 
Yeah, pdf's/minor attracted people say the same thing about their attraction to kids, and "straight" men and women say the same thing about why they don't have any control over their desires. If Jehovah thought it couldn't be done, he wouldn't ask for it..
Yes, I suppose we should all be allow to do whatever we want because we're 6000-7000 years away from perfection.
I could go on and on but why? Feels like trying to talk to a trinitarian.
 
Yes, I suppose we should all be allow to do whatever we want because we're 6000-7000 years away from perfection.
I could go on and on but why? Feels like trying to talk to a trinitarian.
Exactly.. if Jehovah made allowances for certain people then rightly or wrongly I'd think "what about ME and MY issues I've got?" 🤔 And then an avalanche of other wingers would come along and before you knew it, we'd all be eating, drinking and making merry 🙄
 
Regarding the use of Revelation 3:15-16 about being 'lukewarm,' I think it’s worth looking at the actual history of that scripture. In the ancient world, the city of Laodicea sat between Hierapolis, which had hot medicinal springs for healing, and Colossae, which had cold refreshing mountain water for drinking. Both hot and cold were good and useful. The problem with the water in Laodicea was that it was stagnant and lukewarm—it served no purpose and provided no benefit.
When we use this verse to say there is 'no middle ground' and that people must either follow a rigid hard-line or be 'vomited out,' we might be misapplying Jesus’ point. Someone wrestling to reconcile their faith with science or their own nature isn't being 'indifferent' or 'lukewarm.' In fact, that struggle is often a sign of deep spiritual heat.
The real danger of being lukewarm, as mentioned in the very next verse (Rev 3:17), is the pride of thinking we have it all figured out and 'do not need anything at all.'
If we hold so tightly to a 2,000-year-old mindset that we ignore the reality of how people are wired, we risk becoming spiritually stagnant. We might be the ones failing to provide the 'healing' or 'refreshing' environment that allows everyone to have a relationship with Jehovah. If we invite people to the door but then demand they change their DNA to stay, are we truly standing on Jehovah’s side of mercy, or are we just standing on the side of tradition?
You mentioned 1 John 3:6 regarding 'practicing sin,' but it’s helpful to look at the balance provided in the very first chapter of that same book. 1 John 1:8 says, 'If we make the statement, "We have no sin," we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.' It seems the message isn't a demand for overnight perfection, but rather a focus on the direction of our hearts. If a person is sincerely reaching out to Jehovah while navigating how they were naturally wired, that is a personal journey of 'remaining in union' that others shouldn't be so quick to judge.
This leads to the idea that 'all sins are equal.' While that’s a common saying, the Bible repeatedly tells us to identify true faith by its 'fruit' (Matthew 7:16). If a couple is living a life full of love, joy, peace, and kindness, yet they are being judged by someone who is technically 'following the rules' but lacks compassion, which one is actually showing the fruit of the spirit?
I also took your advice and spent some time in the book of James. It really is full of wise advice, especially James 2:13: 'For he who does not practice mercy will have his judgment without mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.'
In the end, I think we have to be careful not to build walls where Jehovah wants bridges. If we prioritize rigid rules over the 'mercy' that James highlights, we might be making it impossible for people to have the very relationship with Jehovah that we claim to be inviting them toward.

I appreciate your concern for mercy, compassion, and making people feel welcomed rather than condemned. Christians absolutely should not be cruel, mocking, gossiping, or self-righteous toward anyone struggling with sin. We all come to Jehovah as imperfect people needing mercy and help every day.

But mercy and approval are not the same thing.

I think the key issue is whether Scripture teaches that our natural desires define what is morally right, or whether Christians are expected to struggle against imperfect desires with the help of God’s spirit.

The Bible repeatedly describes a conflict between flesh and spirit. Galatians 5:17 says: “For the flesh is against the spirit in its desire, and the spirit against the flesh.” That conflict exists for all Christians in different ways. Some battle anger, greed, pride, addictions, immorality, or other desires deeply rooted in imperfect flesh. The existence of a strong desire does not automatically mean Jehovah approves acting on it.

Jesus showed compassion to sinners, yet he still said: “Go your way; from now on practice sin no more.” (John 8:11) He did not shame people, but neither did he redefine sin according to human feelings, psychology, or modern explanations about how people are “wired.”

You mention that attractions may remain throughout a person’s life. That may be true. But Christians are not promised that wrong desires will completely disappear in this system. Even Paul described an ongoing struggle with sin in Romans chapter 7. The Christian hope is not based on becoming desireless now, but on faithfully resisting what conflicts with God’s standards while relying on holy spirit.

The issue is not whether temptation exists. The issue is whether we justify the practice.

I agree Revelation 3:15-16 had a historical setting involving Laodicea’s water supply. But Jesus still used that illustration spiritually. The context was not about sincere people struggling with weakness; it was about spiritual compromise and self-satisfaction. A Christian can struggle and still remain faithful. But redefining what Jehovah calls sin is a different matter.

Acts 15 was about not imposing unnecessary burdens beyond what God required. But the same chapter also specifically instructed Christians to abstain from sexual immorality. So the apostles were not removing God’s moral standards; they were preventing man-made requirements from being added on top of them.

Jesus said his yoke is kindly and his load is light, not because discipleship requires no sacrifice, but because he helps us carry it. Jesus also plainly taught self-denial: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself.” Christians often must deny desires, ambitions, relationships, or lifestyles that feel natural to them.

You also mentioned “fruit.” Compassion is indeed fruitage of the spirit. But Bible love is not separated from truth or obedience. Jesus said: “If you love me, you will observe my commandments.” (John 14:15) A person can appear kind and loving while still practicing something Scripture identifies as sinful. Otherwise, moral standards become based mainly on human perception instead of God’s Word.

Mercy triumphs over judgment when we personally forgive, show patience, and help others draw close to God. But mercy never means telling people that repentance is unnecessary. James himself also wrote that friendship with the world is enmity with God. (James 4:4)

None of this means homosexuals are uniquely sinful or beyond hope. Christians should welcome anyone sincerely seeking Jehovah. But welcoming people and reassuring them that Jehovah has changed his standards are two different things.

The loving thing is not to condemn people harshly, but neither is it loving to reassure people that conduct Scripture consistently calls sin is now acceptable because modern society views it differently.

The Bible’s focus is not on condemning people for experiencing temptation. The focus is on whether we fight the flesh or justify it.
 
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