The United Nations AND the Eighth King of Prophecy

SusanB

Well-known member
Yes, i'm sure there are some things that are, thats what happens when you try to clarify something. You often restate things that you are trying to clarify. I wasn't doing it to copy you, but to establish points further down which certainly do not restate things you have written. Can I not also use truth to establish something, or is it just looked at as restating things you have discerned. There is no doubt Robert you have untangled many a lie by the WT to be sure, and you certainly opened my eyes twelve years ago, when I read your exposition on Joel. Wonderful indeed!

As I stated in the OP I am not trying to challenge you. I feel that quite often you feel that if there is a different perspective than yours it is a challenge against you, a me vs. you scenario to whoever offers a differing perspective. This type of personal attachment to beliefs often leads to division rather than a more clear representation of what those beliefs are. They produce an 'i'm right' and 'you're wrong' atmosphere, a competitive, adversarial, and debaters stance from the very beginning of a discussion.

Unfortunately, personal attachment to beliefs is so much a part of our culture that we are often completely unaware of it and its negative impact, and unaware that there is an alternative to it. It is an unconscious mindset, and response, that is deeply rooted within us, and if we are not aware of it, the outcome often produces an entrenchment within our own views that resists new evidence, and has difficulties in acknowledging error and changing beliefs. Rather than collaborative searches for truth, it creates a barrier to it.

I find it interesting that you state you will read it, you then read 'some more of it' and simply state I am restating things you have written without acknowledging the part I even broke down for you here. If you had read 'more' as in most or all, you would have seen the things that call to question certain entrenched beliefs. It doesn't matter if you are right and I am wrong, I don't care, what matters is we allow the truth to come out. We do not own that truth, we are not the source of that truth, we merely discover it.
Cristo, This post really exposes your true intent. Enough said.
 

Ana

Well-known member
I hope the above is an accurate translation of what you said.

Thanks, Ana., we can relate to your feelings...."Memorizing it is impossible...feeling it something else."
Even though we can't remember everything, we know "truth" when we read it and it has made a deep impression on us.. Like you we are very grateful to Jehovah for answering our prayers and to Br. King and the rest of the forum for the information and encouragement. Wish we understood Spanish better. Very Limited. Take Care.:love:
El que entiende lo poco comprende lo mucho. Poder entender una décima parte ya sería mucho para los que estamos anhelando la unión del pueblo de Jehová, tras la revelacion de los hijos del reino. Recordaremos estos momentos en el futuro con tierno cariño si conseguimos mantenernos firmes. Así que animo a todos!❤️
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
Yes, but the final empire will be different. Jehovah will remove the restraint, and Satan will have complete control of the whole world via one government apparatus.

Some scriptures to go with your thought.​

Revelation13:​

11 And I saw another wild beast+ ascending out of the earth,+ and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon.​

Also a good read >​

What is the meaning of the beast rising from the earth?> https://e-watchman.com/meaning-beast-rising-earth/#

 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
Below is another illustration showing the parallels between the golden image built by Nebuchadnezzar, and the image of the beast in Revelation. The pattern established by Daniel is reflected in Revelation and offers insight into who the image will be.


View attachment 5285

An image is a reflection of something. Just as Jesus Christ is the reflection of Jehovah, so too the ‘image’ of the beast will be the reflection of the eighth King. Just as King Nebuchadnezzar established the golden image, so too the eighth King will establish the ‘image’ of the beast. They are separate entities which share the same purpose, which is to force mankind to worship the dragon, or Satan.
What does all this mean? Well, obviously the League of Nations never was the beast that went into the abyss, thus the United Nations cannot be considered as the one to come out of it as the eighth king, as the WT teaches. So then who is the eighth king?

Since the Anglo-American head is the head that receives the mortal head wound, it should also be apparent that it will be the head that is revived. Obviously not as a democratic government built upon a constitution that tries to uphold justice, liberty, and the rights of man, but rather will be a godless and tyrannical government established on occult and a new age satanic ideology.

Not only will the political landscape be entirely different from the previous one, The revived head may have new borders reflecting an entire new landscape. Perhaps the entire North American continent will be brought into a single entity along with the Anglo part of the seventh head. We can only speculate how the newly revived head will look, but we do know that it will be led by a Satanic group of elites who worship the devil and will be intent on forcing mankind to do the same.

We have examples from history of what happens to countries when they receive death blows. France and Russia are the perfect examples of what happens when a political system collapses, just as the Anglo-American head will, in that the revived versions of the countries encompassed a completely new form of government. The rise of the eighth king from the abyss will no doubt follow the same type of restructuring as other countries that have gone through a revolutionary process. The United States is on the verge of such.

With the advent of blockchain technology and A.I., the newly revived Anglo-American head could take control of the worlds financial markets through CBDC(Central Bank Digital Currency) technology using the A.I. to control the vast wealth that will have been stolen from the rank and file citizens around the world. There is no reason to believe that the ones who control the money today will be any different than the ones who hold it during the eighth kings reign. Thus the eighth king will be synonymous with the one who controls the wealth of the world.

Because of this, the whole world will worship the eighth king, and as we are told the two horned beast will emerge from the earth telling the world to make an image of him. The two horned beast carries the same authority as the first wild beast, however the Bible portrays the two horned beast as a separate entity from the eighth king. I understand this perspective is different than what the WT teaches, and Robert as well, however I am simply allowing this perspective to harmonize with what the Bible states in that the ‘two horned beast’ is another beast, implying that it is not the same as the first.

Re 13:11-12 “. . .And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight.. . .”​
Re 19:20 “. . .And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphu. . .”​
Re 20:10 “. . .And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”​


Coming out of the earth to me means to come out of the wordly demonic characteristics of the prevailing animalistic world climate.

“. . .This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is the earthly, animal, demonic.” (Jas 3:15​

Therefore, because the bible seems to imply the perspective, that the ‘two horned beast’ that speaks as a dragon is a separate entity from the eighth king, we should look to the world to see if we can find something to represent this perspective. Because the two horned beast shares the same authority as the eighth king, is it possible that the two horned beast could be the United States and Israel? Even today, although the United States is the seventh head of the beast, it is no secret that Israel holds vast power over the United States. One could even say that it holds just as much authority as the United States.

Of course this is all speculation, but if the two horned beast is represented by the United States and Israel, then it would be these two countries who tell the world to make an ‘image’ to the wild beast. That ‘image’ is the newly empowered United Nations. In this way the ‘image’ becomes the enforcer of the eighth king. The eighth king controls the wealth, and uses the ‘image’, the newly empowered United Nations to enforce his control over the world. Those who refuse to become part of the beast system are killed.

Just as the United Nations today is truly controlled by a handful of primary nations, so too will the new ‘image’ be controlled by the eighth king, yet will give sovereignty over to it. Even now the governments are proposing to give the World Health Organization, which is an arm of the United Nations, control over their sovereign rights in a pandemic situation.

When we consider what the world is soon to go through with all the wars, pestilence, and death, it is easy to see how the eighth king will use this opportunity to create an organization in which the whole world will want to be a part of it.

Re 17:12-13 “. . .“And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.”​

By giving their sovereignty to the newly formed ‘image’, the United Nations, they are essentially giving their authority to the eighth king, the wild beast. In doing so they are rewarded through monetary means because the eighth king will control the vast deposits of resources and wealth within the world.

Da 11:38-39“. . .But to the god of fortresses, in his position he will give glory; and to a god that his fathers did not know he will give glory by means of gold and by means of silver and by means of precious stone and by means of desirable things. 39 And he will act effectively against the most fortified strongholds, along with a foreign god. Whoever has given [him] recognition he will make abound with glory, and he will actually make them rule among many; and [the] ground he will apportion out for a price.”​
Just as the Anglo-American head is a separate entity from the United Nations now, so too will the eighth King be a separate entity from the ‘image’, the United Nations in its new role. By allowing the beasts of Revelation to be represented by their actual real world counterpart, we get a much clearer picture of future events to unfold. This understanding harmonizes much more clearly than what the WT has taught for decades, as it not only allows the Bible to interpret itself through the parallel scriptures shown, but also by allowing the preexisting patterns to be maintained throughout.

I do not maintain this perspective is entirely accurate, for surely world events that take place will open our eyes to a more clear picture as they unfold, but I do ascertain that this perspective seems to have more clarity than what is currently understood. I’m sorry this was so long if you made it the end here. Trying to untangle the lies of the WT can be an exhaustive process as no doubt Robert can attest. Thanks again Robert for the opportunity to post this on your forum, I sincerely appreciate it, and hope that it will provide context for further discussion.

*****​
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Ah yes, Synthehol, apparently created by the Ferengi as a substitute for alcohol. Producing the same taste and smell without all the bad side effects. Loved that show.

I talk too much, and will be the first to agree, thanks for the reminder.
 

alan ford

Well-known member
I feel that quite often you feel that if there is a different perspective than yours it is a challenge against you, a me vs. you scenario to whoever offers a differing perspective.
I don't think there should be anything wrong with challenging ideas. After all none of us have the complete truth. Isn't the reason most people ended up here because they challenged the accepted "truth"? The truth will always stand on its own.

This type of personal attachment to beliefs often leads to division rather than a more clear representation of what those beliefs are. They produce an 'i'm right' and 'you're wrong' atmosphere, a competitive, adversarial, and debaters stance from the very beginning of a discussion.
Sadly, this is so prevalent today. A lot of people start identifying with their beliefs and any challenge to their belief is perceived as personal attack. It's very common in WT land too and no wonder discussion with them leads nowhere.


Anyway, I also have a hard time understanding how the scarlet beast from the sea and false prophet that ascends from the earth would be one and the same in light of Revelation 19:20:

(ESV) And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

I understand that they do share the same characteristics and are of the same mind, but I don't see how they are one entity when bible says they are two.
 

Frank D

Well-known member

Frank D

Well-known member
[31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.]
[36 “The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things. And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; because what is determined must take place.]
[44 “But reports out of the east and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. 45 And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.]

[23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. 24 His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. 25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.]

[3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads (7 mountains/7 kings) and ten horns.]
[11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”]

[1 And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, but on its heads blasphemous names.]
[5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.]
[19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.]

[11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon.]

[3 Another sign was seen in heaven. Look! A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems;]
[12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”]
[17 So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.]

[7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.]

[9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.]

[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.]
 
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alan ford

Well-known member
[And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, but on its heads blasphemous names.]

[11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon.]
Here is another difference between the beast from the sea and the one from earth: the beast from the sea has crowns and the lamblike one doesn't. Do horns without crowns represent rulers or some other kind of power? In Rev 17:3 while the harlot is sitting on the beast, it doesn't mention crowns either, but then in verse 12 it explains that that those horns (without crowns) mean the kings who didn't yet receive their kingdom. So to me it seems that the lamblike beast is not actually an entity that can be considered a king.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I got rid of my comment because I realized the 8th king is also described as the wild beast... but yes, I believe the 8th king will also be Satan. He will openly demand to be worshipped as the new Nebuchadnezzar... the full statue from Daniel. The beasts typically symbolize governments, while the horns symbolize kings, but here the beast is also called a king. Very confusing.
That’s ultimately what Satan has wanted to achieve from the beginning….WORSHIP FROM HUMANS!
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Since the beast isn't described as being 8 headed, doesn't this mean the 8th king represents the completed statue from Daniel? Each part was a separate empire/kingdom, but the whole statue symbolizes the completed puzzle, the 8th king... I don't think the 8th king is part of anything, it's the whole. As Robert said above, Satan receives worship through the 8th king. This makes sense, since he's claiming to be God, he won't appear to us as a man. Will he appear to us through a false prophet/man, who will be his false Christ?
I pray Jehovah will hide his servants faces from this eighth king that Satan no doubt uses in the end as he claims to be God.…whatever way he appears.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
On reading through this thread and others as well…could this be small beginnings of the fulfillment of Daniel 12:4?

“As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. MANY WILL ROVE ABOUT, AND THE TRUE KNOWLEDGE WILL BECOME ABUNDANT.”
 
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Maybelle

Well-known member
Thanks, Br Kevin, that's very kind of you and we may just do that.
Our main problem is that it's just hard to remember everything especially the sequence but we really are making progress.
We're using bookmarks to help keep important points organized. We've created a "prophecy" label so we can refer to it as needed. I'm sure some of your comments are already securely saved for our reference. The forum certainly helps in that regard. The comments in the forum Jehovah Has Become King - book review provide a good review as well.
Thanks again and we'll be watching for your comments/scriptures which we always take notice of.
I remember walking around in a haze. It’s a lot to take in. I found listening to the book really helped and then I ordered a physical copy. It’s been 2.5 years for me and things are fitting into place 😊
 

J&P

Well-known member
El que entiende lo poco comprende lo mucho. Poder entender una décima parte ya sería mucho para los que estamos anhelando la unión del pueblo de Jehová, tras la revelacion de los hijos del reino. Recordaremos estos momentos en el futuro con tierno cariño si conseguimos mantenernos firmes. Así que animo a todos!❤️

He who understands little understands much. Being able to understand a tenth of it would be a lot for those of us who are longing for the union of Jehovah's people, after the revelation of the children of the kingdom. We will remember these moments in the future with tender affection if we can hold firm. So I encourage everyone!❤️

Thank you, Ana and hope we will be of encouragement to you
I remember walking around in a haze. It’s a lot to take in. I found listening to the book really helped and then I ordered a physical copy. It’s been 2.5 years for me and things are fitting into place 😊
About the same here. For us, it became blatant that something was wrong in org when they started pushing the co-vid shots. even though we had already begun to express concerns among ourselves. Took awhile for us to find the Watchman - maybe 6 months ago.
 

Maybelle

Well-known member
Thank you, Ana and hope we will be of encouragement to you

About the same here. For us, it became blatant that something was wrong in org when they started pushing the co-vid shots. even though we had already begun to express concerns among ourselves. Took awhile for us to find the Watchman - maybe 6 months ago.
I was already aware Robert King, a sister had a Facebook group and she had started to awaken me. I found the watchman videos hard to understand at first, because it’s re teaching. But in 2021, something triggered me, which was the vaccine passports and everything from the Facebook group that had been spoken about clicked in, not just the WT, but world events too. This is where I really started looking into the WT ( I have many personal reasons from my past/childhood, that led me to have trust issues with the congregations, way things are done etc) I prayed and found I was able to absorb the videos and books so much better.
 

Ana

Well-known member
Gracias Ana y espero que te seamos de ánimo.
Es algo que nos sirve a todos, pues significa que la profecia se mueve y que nos vamos uniendo de alguna manera. Es muy triste aunque necesario ver al pueblo de Jehová en la condición en la que está. Pero saber que también necesita esa lejía nos hace comprender la necesidad de limpieza que existe. Es un pueblo que está sonámbulo. Aquí estamos con los ojos abiertos! Listos para servir! No daremos celos a nuestro Dios, Jehová es un solo Dios que exige adoración exclusiva! Así que en cualquier organización humana, es muy bueno ser excluido.😉
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Es algo que nos sirve a todos, pues significa que la profecia se mueve y que nos vamos uniendo de alguna manera. Es muy triste aunque necesario ver al pueblo de Jehová en la condición en la que está. Pero saber que también necesita esa lejía nos hace comprender la necesidad de limpieza que existe. Es un pueblo que está sonámbulo. Aquí estamos con los ojos abiertos! Listos para servir! No daremos celos a nuestro Dios, Jehová es un solo Dios que exige adoración exclusiva! Así que en cualquier organización humana, es muy bueno ser excluido.😉
Es algo que nos sirve a todos, pues significa que la profecia se mueve y que nos vamos uniendo de alguna manera. Es muy triste aunque necesario ver al pueblo de Jehová en la condición en la que está. Pero saber que también necesita esa lejía nos hace comprender la necesidad de limpieza que existe. Es un pueblo que está sonámbulo. Aquí estamos con los ojos abiertos! Listos para servir! No daremos celos a nuestro Dios, Jehová es un solo Dios que exige adoración exclusiva! Así que en cualquier organización humana, es muy bueno
Translation: It is something that serves us all, because it means that prophecy moves and that we are uniting in some way. It is very sad but necessary to see Jehovah's people in the condition in which they are. But knowing that you also need that bleach makes us understand the need for cleaning that exists. It is a people who are sleepy. Here we are with our eyes open! Ready to serve! We will not give jealousy to our God, Jehovah is a single God who demands exclusive worship! So in any human organisation, it is very good.😉
 
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