The Verdict Has Been Handed Down - Finally!!!

Their blank, deer in the headlight stare seemed to say it all. We think they were very much aware but were at a loss for words. For that reason, we didn’t pursue the subject as well as we didn’t want the meeting to become antagonistic and get shut down before we could address other issues.

Obviously, in one aspect, we wish we had pushed harder on the subject, but at the same time, we realized that if we backed them too hard into a corner, they would shut us down. So we used restraint.:unsure:
I think the saying is "Damned if you do and damned if you don't" it sounds to me like you said enough to get them thinking and maybe even researching..
 
I have heard about the appealing to the GB part...I have not heard that no reply = no disfellowshipping.

Please share details as you are able of how the conversation went. Do you think anything you said registered? I imagine your son's testimony was favorable for you?
Our son was present strictly as our witness to the proceedings. He didn’t say a word but, afterwards said, it was all he could do to restrain himself and not jump up out of his chair.
 
Good question and great answer. Another home run for “The Babe”!🤣

While Phyllis may feel she’s dropped the ball regarding the vax, she hit a home run with her UN statement, IMO.
You have to realize, for a woman to sit in front of six men of power, it has to be somewhat intimidating. I’m proud to say she wasn’t. She sat straight up in her chair and spoke with confidence not showing the least big of fear or intimidation. After a very comprehensive overview of the UN affiliation which, by the way, they did not interrupt, they simply sat there with blank expressions of their faces.
CONGRATULATIONS !
 
Was your son disfellowshipped too?
Was your son disfellowshipped too?
No, he and his wife are still in “good standing”. But, who knows for how long since there’s not much chance they’ll stop associating with us. In fact, we are with them today. (We just asked him to be our witness to the proceedings since we’re not allowed to record.);)
 
No, they did not; however, that brings up another portion of our conversation with the Appeal Committee that we had not yet disclosed.

I directly asked the chairman, “do we have any other appeals left open to us” totally aware that we did as per the April 2024 “Shepherd the Flock” book. The chairman emphatically answered “No!”. I replied, “Well, Jack, I’m disappointed in you.” He, then sheepishly replied, “I guess you already know the answer”. I nodded in the affirmative and he then went on to correctly and accurately outline our options. It had to be a hugely embarrassing moment for him because his lie was openly exposed.
He lied to your face at a “judicial” (Justice) hearing, like a judge telling a condemned man he has no room to appeal ? Has the man no conscience, no understanding of the bible whatsoever ? To lie to your face, an elder, who must have known the appeal procedure, but still chose to lie to you??

I have often wondered how people would choose the beast when the kingdom is ruling also during the final days, but this has given me insight now into just how obtuse people may be in those times. It really defies reason. How shameful must he be towards his brethren.
 
He lied to your face at a “judicial” (Justice) hearing, like a judge telling a condemned man he has no room to appeal ? Has the man no conscience, no understanding of the bible whatsoever ? To lie to your face, an elder, who must have known the appeal procedure, but still chose to lie to you??

I have often wondered how people would choose the beast when the kingdom is ruling also during the final days, but this has given me insight now into just how obtuse people may be in those times. It really defies reason. How shameful must he be towards his brethren.
Our son’s expression to us regarding the proceedings was “I wonder if the local brothers on the original judicial committee felt better as they observed the appeal committee having their a..es handed to them on a platter as well”?

Barnaby, do you mind if we quote you in a letter we will be sending to the chairman with the addition that it’s much easier to answer if you’re speaking and defending “truth”.
 
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He lied to your face at a “judicial” (Justice) hearing, like a judge telling a condemned man he has no room to appeal ? Has the man no conscience, no understanding of the bible whatsoever ? To lie to your face, an elder, who must have known the appeal procedure, but still chose to lie to you??

I have often wondered how people would choose the beast when the kingdom is ruling also during the final days, but this has given me insight now into just how obtuse people may be in those times. It really defies reason. How shameful must he be towards his brethren.

Job 34:11

11 For [according to] the way earthling man* acts he will rewarda him,And according to the path of man* he will cause it to come upon him.

Romans 9:18

18 So, then, upon whom he wishes he has mercy,a but whom he wishes he lets become obstinate.b
 
We had our appeal hearing yesterday. As expected, we were both disfellowshipped. For all intents and purposes, they had no choice but to follow WT protocol IF they wanted to remain an elder. We all know the drill.

However, the greeting by all of three members of the appeal committee was very warm and welcoming. The greeting by the local judicial committee, who were also present, was rather cool with the exception of one of them. We brought our son with us as a witness which, to our surprise, was eventually allowed.

We, personally, knew all three brothers on the appeal committee. In fact, one of the brothers was part the 2007 drama we participated in "Clothe Yourselves With Lowliness of Mind" (Gehazi). Therefore, we knew him and his wife quite well as we spent almost every weekend with them for several months during rehearsals. This brother actually came over to the door to say good bye. He even shook my hand (after we were disfellowshipped) and expressed how sorry he was. (He was very emotional and appeared to be at the point of tears). I have worked with with all three of those brothers at different times during circuit and district venues. We feel it was this personal connection that allowed the discussion to morph into a 40 minute exchange.
Mis queridos, oponerme al Diablo directamente le nace a un cristiano sin vacilar. Oponerse a los que dirigen el pueblo del Dios vivo, considerando que es el lugar donde crecemos, compartimos y adoramos a Jehová, con lo que eso significa, es otra cosa. La paz de Jehová que supera todos los corazones os está cuidando. Está en esa calma antes de la tormenta y nosotros sabemos de esa tormenta y del lugar donde iniciarán los rayos y centellas! Les mando un gran abrazo. 😘 Isaías 18:4-Porque esto es lo que me ha dicho Jehová: “Ciertamente me mantendré sosegado y miraré mi lugar establecido, como el calor deslumbrador junto con la luz, como la nube de rocío en el calor de la siega. 5 Porque antes de la siega, cuando la flor llega a la perfección y lo florecido llega a ser una uva que va madurándose, uno también tiene que cortar los tallitos con podaderas y tiene que quitar los zarcillos, [los] tiene que escamondar. 6 Serán dejados todos juntos para el ave de rapiña de las montañas y para la bestia de la tierra. Y sobre ello ciertamente pasará el verano el ave de rapiña, y sobre ello pasará el tiempo de la siega aun toda bestia de la tierra. 7 ”En aquel tiempo se traerá un regalo a Jehová de los ejércitos, [de parte de] un pueblo de alta talla y bruñido, aun de un pueblo que por todas partes es inspirador de temor, una nación de resistencia a la tensión y de pisoteo, cuya tierra los ríos han arrollado, al lugar del nombre de Jehová de los ejércitos, al monte Sión”.
 
Mis queridos, oponerme al Diablo directamente le nace a un cristiano sin vacilar. Oponerse a los que dirigen el pueblo del Dios vivo, considerando que es el lugar donde crecemos, compartimos y adoramos a Jehová, con lo que eso significa, es otra cosa. La paz de Jehová que supera todos los corazones os está cuidando. Está en esa calma antes de la tormenta y nosotros sabemos de esa tormenta y del lugar donde iniciarán los rayos y centellas! Les mando un gran abrazo. 😘 Isaías 18:4-Porque esto es lo que me ha dicho Jehová: “Ciertamente me mantendré sosegado y miraré mi lugar establecido, como el calor deslumbrador junto con la luz, como la nube de rocío en el calor de la siega. 5 Porque antes de la siega, cuando la flor llega a la perfección y lo florecido llega a ser una uva que va madurándose, uno también tiene que cortar los tallitos con podaderas y tiene que quitar los zarcillos, [los] tiene que escamondar. 6 Serán dejados todos juntos para el ave de rapiña de las montañas y para la bestia de la tierra. Y sobre ello ciertamente pasará el verano el ave de rapiña, y sobre ello pasará el tiempo de la siega aun toda bestia de la tierra. 7 ”En aquel tiempo se traerá un regalo a Jehová de los ejércitos, [de parte de] un pueblo de alta talla y bruñido, aun de un pueblo que por todas partes es inspirador de temor, una nación de resistencia a la tensión y de pisoteo, cuya tierra los ríos han arrollado, al lugar del nombre de Jehová de los ejércitos, al monte Sión”.
Translation:
My dear ones, opposing the Devil directly comes from a Christian without hesitation. Opposing those who lead the people of the living God, considering that it is the place where we grow, share and worship Jehovah, with what that means, is another thing. The peace of Jehovah that surpasses all hearts is watching over you. He is in that calm before the storm and we know about that storm and the place where the lightning and sparks will begin! I send you a big hug. Isaiah 18:4-For this is what the Lord has said to me: “I will certainly keep calm and look at my established place, like the dazzling heat with the light, like the cloud of dew in the heat of the harvest. 5 Because before the harvest, when the flower reaches perfection and what has blossomed becomes a grape that ripens, one also has to cut the stems with pruning shears and has to remove the tendrils, [they] have to remove them. 6 They will be left all together for the bird of prey of the mountains and for the beast of the earth. And the bird of prey will certainly spend the summer on it, and even every beast of the earth will spend the time of harvest on it. 7 “At that time a gift will be brought to the LORD of hosts, [from] a people of high stature and polish, even from a people who inspire fear everywhere, a nation of resistance to tension and of trampled, whose land the rivers have overwhelmed, to the place of the name of the Lord of hosts, to Mount Zion.”
 
and sporting a full beard!!!
(That says it all....A grown man had to receive permission to have a beard)
I have said this before, but I'm gonna point it out again, it seems to me Jehovah is forcing them to "oust themselves." Nothing speaks to idolatry more than a grown man who refuses to grow a beard because a bunch of out of touch arrogant jackasses, I mean the GB, told them they couldn't. Men, most of us have never meant, and when they gave their "permission" the reason, there is no scriptural reason for not wearing a beard. So here's why I am saying it's Jehovah exposing them. They don't have the self awareness to realize that every single brother who is now sporting a beard, is letting everyone know who their real masters are. Hint, it's not Jehovah and Jesus. "We obey God, oh wait, the GB as ruler rather than men." When is someone going to tell them the GB are men too?

It also exposes something else. The GB are in fact "masters over your faith". All these brothers who are sporting beards, and it is a lot of them, are saying loud and clear, "I really, really, really wanted a beard, and the only reason I didn't is because the GB said I couldn't." In other words, these aren't grown men, they are children.
 
In the book of John, the experience of the parents of the blind man Jesus cured.. The parents were afraid of being expelled from the temple so they said, " ask him yourself" to the Pharisees , as to who cured their son. Just because they threaten it doesn't mean Jehovah stands behind their decisions. Their decisions of disfellowshipping means nothing to Jehovah..Paul was very specific about it.. The man had taken his fathers wife..something not even heard of in the world is what Paul said so Paul recommended cutting his man off.. They threatened to disfellowship me when I told them I no longer believed Christ came to 1914. I was no longer in that cong. and had already moved three states away.. It really means nothing to Jehovah, to us it means losing friends that were close.
 
No, he and his wife are still in “good standing”. But, who knows for how long since there’s not much chance they’ll stop associating with us. In fact, we are with them today. (We just asked him to be our witness to the proceedings since we’re not allowed to record.);)
Theocratic warfare. Pocket recorder. :)
 
I have said this before, but I'm gonna point it out again, it seems to me Jehovah is forcing them to "oust themselves." Nothing speaks to idolatry more than a grown man who refuses to grow a beard because a bunch of out of touch arrogant jackasses, I mean the GB, told them they couldn't. Men, most of us have never meant, and when they gave their "permission" the reason, there is no scriptural reason for not wearing a beard. So here's why I am saying it's Jehovah exposing them. They don't have the self awareness to realize that every single brother who is now sporting a beard, is letting everyone know who their real masters are. Hint, it's not Jehovah and Jesus. "We obey God, oh wait, the GB as ruler rather than men." When is someone going to tell them the GB are men too?

It also exposes something else. The GB are in fact "masters over your faith". All these brothers who are sporting beards, and it is a lot of them, are saying loud and clear, "I really, really, really wanted a beard, and the only reason I didn't is because the GB said I couldn't." In other words, these aren't grown men, they are children.
Confused. Didn't know whether to use the love emoji or the LMAO emoji. Two big thumbs up.
 
Phillip Brumley got his just desserts. Here’s the report on him:
MONTANA, USA: Philip Brumley, legal counsel for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and head of the legal department at their headquarters in Patterson, New York, has been fined $154,448.11. On June 22, 2020 he submitted an affidavit to the United States District Court of Montana wherein he used language that was an “intentional and sustained effort to deceive the court”.

Needless to say he may lose his license to practice being a lawyer in addition to lying ( my words about the lying)
And who will pay his fine? That’s what I’d like to know. I hope he is struck off.
 
Theocratic warfare. Pocket recorder. :)
Hey Kirmmy,
Did we say we didn't record.....we just said it's not allowed. 😜
We were never asked so we never had to compromise our integrity. But we had Steve, our son, with us just in case they asked.

It's difficult to explain the paranoia about recordings and/or witnesses other than they want to keep secret what actually takes place behind closed doors. Therefore, they can do what they want.....say what they want.....and, there's no incentive to do otherwise.

In Bible times, the law provided an incentive. Judicial hearings were held in public at the city gate where any who desired to be present were welcome. Even the WT admits the public nature of the trial kept the judges honest. However, rather than follow the principles contained in Biblical law, WT protocol seems to follow that of the Pharisees who committed numerous infractions of the law when pursuing their objective regarding Jesus.

(Deuteronomy 16:18, 19) . . .You should appoint judges and officers for each tribe in all the cities that Jehovah your God is giving you, and they must judge the people with righteous judgment. 19 You must not pervert justice,. . .

(Deuteronomy 21:19-21) 19 his father and his mother should take hold of him and bring him out to the elders at the gate of his city


As Watchman said in regard to WT policy concerning people like us...."zap them with the apostate label.....problems solved"!
Who cares if you have to break a few rules along the way.
 
You must be my twin. Lol.
I kept falling down too. But Jehovah is merciful and kind and keeps helping me back up.
I returned to the org. twice, the third time I returned to Jehovah, not the watchtower. Actually, the last time I left the org. I didn't exactly leave Jehovah, I just felt like maybe he had left me.
As far as being inactive, yeah that too but I try to speak up for Jehovah, Jesus, and the Bible when the opportunity arises. My family gets the bulk of my witnessing. None are what I would call spiritual minded. I keep trying and praying.
Good to know there are other prodigals. Glad we have come to our senses.
Me too, I still talk to people about Jehovah and the Bible. The congregation service elder stopped asking me for my monthly field service once I'd stopped sending links to articles and videos on the jw website, or showing people those articles and videos, I changed my ministry to links to the Bible only and that obviously doesn't count, because after the 2nd month of him seeing that he stopped asking me. Weird..
 
Phillip Brumley got his just desserts. Here’s the report on him:
MONTANA, USA: Philip Brumley, legal counsel for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and head of the legal department at their headquarters in Patterson, New York, has been fined $154,448.11. On June 22, 2020 he submitted an affidavit to the United States District Court of Montana wherein he used language that was an “intentional and sustained effort to deceive the court”.

Needless to say he may lose his license to practice being a lawyer in addition to lying ( my words about the lying)
Do you have the link to this excerpt please?
 
Hey Kirmmy,
Did we say we didn't record.....we just said it's not allowed. 😜
We were never asked so we never had to compromise our integrity. But we had Steve, our son, with us just in case they asked.

It's difficult to explain the paranoia about recordings and/or witnesses other than they want to keep secret what actually takes place behind closed doors. Therefore, they can do what they want.....say what they want.....and, there's no incentive to do otherwise.

In Bible times, the law provided an incentive. Judicial hearings were held in public at the city gate where any who desired to be present were welcome. Even the WT admits the public nature of the trial kept the judges honest. However, rather than follow the principles contained in Biblical law, WT protocol seems to follow that of the Pharisees who committed numerous infractions of the law when pursuing their objective regarding Jesus.

(Deuteronomy 16:18, 19) . . .You should appoint judges and officers for each tribe in all the cities that Jehovah your God is giving you, and they must judge the people with righteous judgment. 19 You must not pervert justice,. . .

(Deuteronomy 21:19-21) 19 his father and his mother should take hold of him and bring him out to the elders at the gate of his city


As Watchman said in regard to WT policy concerning people like us...."zap them with the apostate label.....problems solved"!
Who cares if you have to break a few rules along the way.

Watchtower is the one that causes divisions with there man-made unbiblical policies.​

Jude1:​

17 As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,+ 18 how they used to say to YOU: “In the last time there will be ridiculers,* proceeding according to their own desires for ungodly things.”+ 19 These are the ones that make separations,*+ animalistic [men],*+ not having spirituality.*+ 20 But YOU, beloved ones, by building up yourselves+ on YOUR most holy faith,+ and praying with holy spirit,+ 21 keep yourselves in God’s love,+ while YOU are waiting for the mercy+ of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view.

Romans 16:17

17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisionsa and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teachingb that YOU have learned, and avoid them.c

1 Corinthians 1:10

10 Now I exhorta YOU, brothers, through the nameb of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement,c and that there should not be divisions*d among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.e

James 3:16

16 For where jealousya and contentiousness are, there disorder* and every vile thing are.b

3 John 1:10

10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing,a chattering about us with wicked words.b Also, not being content* with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothersc with respect, and those who are wanting to received them he tries* to hindere and to throw outf of the congregation.

Revelation 2:15

15 So you, also, have those holding fast the teaching of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus*a likewise.
 
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Hey Kirmmy,
Did we say we didn't record.....we just said it's not allowed. 😜
We were never asked so we never had to compromise our integrity. But we had Steve, our son, with us just in case they asked.

It's difficult to explain the paranoia about recordings and/or witnesses other than they want to keep secret what actually takes place behind closed doors. Therefore, they can do what they want.....say what they want.....and, there's no incentive to do otherwise.

In Bible times, the law provided an incentive. Judicial hearings were held in public at the city gate where any who desired to be present were welcome. Even the WT admits the public nature of the trial kept the judges honest. However, rather than follow the principles contained in Biblical law, WT protocol seems to follow that of the Pharisees who committed numerous infractions of the law when pursuing their objective regarding Jesus.

(Deuteronomy 16:18, 19) . . .You should appoint judges and officers for each tribe in all the cities that Jehovah your God is giving you, and they must judge the people with righteous judgment. 19 You must not pervert justice,. . .

(Deuteronomy 21:19-21) 19 his father and his mother should take hold of him and bring him out to the elders at the gate of his city


As Watchman said in regard to WT policy concerning people like us...."zap them with the apostate label.....problems solved"!
Who cares if you have to break a few rules along the way.
Which TV channel should I tune to, to get the full recording, I mean, story!?
 
as for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ
I just want to extend my appreciation to you, Brother Kevin, you keep us on our toes! I love how you bring out as many scriptures to fit the situation as possible! You are truly a blessing! We all have our gifts, and this is just one of yours. You are doing exactly what 1 Cor 1:10 is saying here....helping us 'call to mind' scriptural teachings from THE head of the congregation, Jesus Christ...and of course other inspired Bible writers! Please keep this up....it is extremely helpful to me for one. (Memory isn't as good as it used to be!) And now being 'awakened', I am even seeing some of these scriptures in a new light. So again, Thank You! 🙏
 
I just want to extend my appreciation to you, Brother Kevin, you keep us on our toes! I love how you bring out as many scriptures to fit the situation as possible! You are truly a blessing! We all have our gifts, and this is just one of yours. You are doing exactly what 1 Cor 1:10 is saying here....helping us 'call to mind' scriptural teachings from THE head of the congregation, Jesus Christ...and of course other inspired Bible writers! Please keep this up....it is extremely helpful to me for one. (Memory isn't as good as it used to be!) And now being 'awakened', I am even seeing some of these scriptures in a new light. So again, Thank You! 🙏

1 Corinthians15:​

57 But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!+

Ezekiel34:​

15 “‘“I myself shall feed my sheep,*+ and I myself shall make them lie down,”+ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 16 “The lost* one I shall search for,+ and the dispersed one I shall bring back, and the broken one I shall bandage and the ailing one I shall strengthen, but the fat one+ and the strong one I shall annihilate. I shall feed that one* with judgment.”*+
 
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