Turbo Cancer

SusanB

Well-known member
I believe it was said in an earlier post "I’m a committed carnivore and have no interest in changing". Apologies if that wasn't your post!
You can quote me but what I did NOT say was that I disagreed with biblical peaceful sentiments as outlined in Isaiah. Those are 2 very different things. I thank Jehovah for giving the animals as food, which he has done. I enjoy meat and why would you contradict Jehovah?
 
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goldie

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hi goldie- I agree! There is much to support biblical evidence of God's original intention for the earth and man and beast living in harmony. Just as God permitted multiple marriages in the past, it was not his ideal arrangement. Which is the point I was trying to make to @SusanB that while God technically allows killing animals for food now, that does not mean that it pleases him that we do so unnecessarily. we are in a unique situation in history where we have a plethora of vegetation as nutrients and don't need to kill to eat. So why not honor God's intention and practice sanctity of life in a loving way in preparation for the paradise? I think she either didn't get my point or doesn't want to admit that killing unnecessarily is not part of God's original plan! Thank you for your perspective and biblical citations.
I whole heartedly agree. ❤
 

robins

Well-known member
You can quote me but what I did NOT say was that I disagreed with biblical peaceful sentiments as outlined in Isaiah. Those are 2 very different things. I thank Jehovah for giving the animals as food, which he has done. I enjoy meat and why would you contradict Jehovah?
I agree that the bible outlines that Jehovah allowed the eating of meat after the flood, but Jah did not say this was peaceful. He also allowed for war, but that is not peaceful either. I'm not sure if you've done research on how the majority of animals are raised or killed, but it is not a peaceful act. Insisting that you "don't want to change" ignores the cruelty that goes behind the killing and is not aligned with peace. I enjoy meat too, but stopped eating it as long as I have other options that are more peaceful. While God may not technically punish you for it, the act of killing unnecessarily is clearly not his intention of living peaceably.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Hi evw. Are you confusing me with @SusanB? I agree that man and animal should live in harmony, it is her that disagrees with biblical peaceful sentiments as outlined in Isaiah.
Here is the clear order that Jehovah has provided. At the top and exclusive is Jehovah, Almighty God, then below him is Jesus and the chosen who will be immortal. Then below them are the angels and humans below angels. What is below humans are animals. I don’t, at least I try to not, elevate animals to be equal to humans because they are not and they were not intended to be.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I agree that the bible outlines that Jehovah allowed the eating of meat after the flood, but Jah did not say this was peaceful. He also allowed for war, but that is not peaceful either. I'm not sure if you've done research on how the majority of animals are raised or killed, but it is not a peaceful act. Insisting that you "don't want to change" ignores the cruelty that goes behind the killing and is not aligned with peace. I enjoy meat too, but stopped eating it as long as I have other options that are more peaceful. While God may not technically punish you for it, the act of killing unnecessarily is clearly not his intention of living peaceably.
What I research is God’s word and I look to him for instruction, not you. You are contradicting Jehovah and trying to make eating meat a sin. We should not add to the bible nor take away from it. You are free to choose for yourself but influencing and shaming others is wrong. You don’t dictate my conscience.
 
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SusanB

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I agree that the bible outlines that Jehovah allowed the eating of meat after the flood, but Jah did not say this was peaceful. He also allowed for war, but that is not peaceful either. I'm not sure if you've done research on how the majority of animals are raised or killed, but it is not a peaceful act. Insisting that you "don't want to change" ignores the cruelty that goes behind the killing and is not aligned with peace. I enjoy meat too, but stopped eating it as long as I have other options that are more peaceful. While God may not technically punish you for it, the act of killing unnecessarily is clearly not his intention of living peaceably.
And by the way, you started this with an attack on me for a stand that I take for myself based on clear scripture.
 
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goldie

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I think it was just a misunderstanding. It is not a sin to eat meat! Robin's conscience bothers her to eat meat because she can't stand the suffering they have to endure, so she shouldn't eat it! In the new system we will see, but if we are to live in peace with the animals it certainly doesn't sound like they will be a food source for us.
 

robins

Well-known member
And by the way, you started this with an attack on me for a stand that I take for myself based on clear scripture.
There were no factory farms in biblical times, so we need to extrapolate principals from the bible and apply them to today. If you believe that Jehovah wants peace between us and the animals, and continue to eat meat that causes suffering when there are other more peaceable options, there definitely is a contradiction. Eating meat may not be wrong by the letter of the law, but in principal is does not promote harmony
 

robins

Well-known member
What I research is God’s word and I look to him for instruction, not you. You are contradicting Jehovah and trying to make eating meat a sin. We should not add to the bible nor take away from it. You are free to choose for yourself but influencing and shaming others is wrong. You don’t dictate my conscience.
I encourage personal research. Eating meat is technically not a sin, but to contribute to unnecessary suffering goes against the principal of love. It is a fact that if we pay other people to kill our meat for us, a high amount of suffering was likely involved in their up-bringing, if not their death. I don't think you're disputing that fact. We can choose to feel shame, or harden our conscience, or ignore facts.
 

Sundial

Well-known member
Jehovah does not make mistakes, so passing opinions on others who follow His dictates in this present sistem should be verboten and smacks of holier-than-thou.
BTW I love my animals like family, but if my child were starving you'd better bet we'd eat those animals and commit no sin in doing so.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
It is interesting that the vegetarians that I know, most times really, are not a fan of real vegetables outside of rice and potatoes. They often don’t eat broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, which I do eat and love. In fact, what they often eat are over-processed vegetables that are formed and flavored to look and taste like meat. Go figure. My goal is to keep the food that I eat in the same form that Jehovah provided it, with the exception of bread, which is my downfall. In other words, I want my food with as little processing as possible. If you go overboard regarding animals where will it stop? Plants actually sing and scream too. It’s just that human ears can’t hear it but they do have ways to measure the plant sounds. They also are living things. So, for me, I draw the line where Jehovah put it and that is that he gave animals to humans for food in the same way that he gave vegetation to them.

In my neighborhood we have feral cats. I am the meat-eater who organized a non-profit to come out and spay and neuter the cats and helped them catch the cats and donated a trap to them. The vegetarians in my neighborhood didn’t do that. We didn’t get all of the cats but we got most. And, I feel so sorry for the cats that I feed them everyday and go to the grocery store 2 X’s a week to buy food for them at substantial cost to me. I love animals and have no problem caring for them. But still they have a place in Jehovah’s creation and I respect that and I am thankful for his provision of meat. I actually have many reasons that eating meat doesn’t bother my conscience but it isn’t something that I choose to promote because each person can read what the bible says for themselves on this topic. I am not trying to convince anyone to eat meat or not eat meat, I just get irritated when someone tries to shame me and inputs bad motives to me, such as not respecting the sanctity of life. That is way off base and slanderous.

In Hawaii we have Filipino brothers and sisters and a Filipino brother who was an Elder before the vax killed him. He told me that he ate dog when he was in the Philippines. Would I ever eat a dog? No, I would not but I didn’t correct that brother because it isn’t my business and I don’t want to be master over anyone’s faith. I myself have eaten exotic animals, like crocodile, ostrich, buffalo, venison, rabbit. It’s important to respect each one’s conscience and to not shame anyone with our own personal extrapolation of the scriptures. Like the first century, I think we should pay attention to the necessary things and the other things will fall into place when Jehovah makes correction.
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
I would like to add to my above comment that when you treat animals like they are human, it causes stress to the animal because they were not designed to act like a human and they have different ways of socializing such as dogs being ruled by the pack.
 

robins

Well-known member
Here is the clear order that Jehovah has provided. At the top and exclusive is Jehovah, Almighty God, then below him is Jesus and the chosen who will be immortal. Then below them are the angels and humans below angels. What is below humans are animals. I don’t, at least I try to not, elevate animals to be equal to humans because they are not and they were not intended to be.
I agree! And because of this order we were given the responsibility to care for those beneath us- Christ for the congregation, man to wife, parents to children, and human to animal. The higher in the hierarchy, the greater the responsibility for compassion.
 

robins

Well-known member
@ Robins, Do you suppose the sacrifice of animals, which God commanded the Israelites, caused no suffering or promoted harmony between the people and the animals? Explain how you square that please.
I square this the same way i square Numbers chapter 5 (test for an unfaithful wife) and god commanding the Israelites in Numbers chapter 31 (command through moses to "take" [aka rape] foreign virgin women)
 

robins

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Jehovah does not make mistakes, so passing opinions on others who follow His dictates in this present sistem should be verboten and smacks of holier-than-thou.
BTW I love my animals like family, but if my child were starving you'd better bet we'd eat those animals and commit no sin in doing so.
It is a fact that animals suffer unnecessarily at the hands of humans for a variety of motivations, not an opinion. It doesn't make a person superior or inferior to highlight actions that may knowingly or unknowingly contribute to this. And eating or staying warm to survive would be considered necessary, so you're missing (or conveniently avoiding) my point by bringing up a scenario which i have repeatedly referenced "unnecessary".
 

robins

Well-known member
Acts chapter 10 reiterates the fact that God doesn't have an issue with eating meat.
I would like to add to my above comment that when you treat animals like they are human, it causes stress to the animal because they were not designed to act like a human and they have different ways of socializing such as dogs being ruled by the pack.
So was god treating animals like humans when he commanded they refrain from 'work' on the sabbath too? Arguably he was showing compassion. Showing compassion is a trait that god values, and doesn't reserve it for only human-to-human interactions.
 

robins

Well-known member
Acts chapter 10 reiterates the fact that God doesn't have an issue with eating meat.
And 1 Corinthians suggests to abstain from it if it makes your brother stumble. Our message would fall blind to Muslims at our casual eating of pork, and deaf to Hindus at our casual eating of beef. Just as we may not be open to hearing God's message in the USA if they were bbq-ing puppies at their after-meeting gatherings too
 
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