Unrighteous riches

Niobium

Well-known member
I don't usually watch the 10 minute or so videos that are put up on the Watchtower Library App as I don't find them particularly inspiring. However, I decided to watch the one entitled " Make friends by means of unrighteous riches" by Gajus Glockentin. After watching I decided never to donate money to this society ever again.

The Insight book Vol 2 under riches says:
Persons who do not use their “unrighteous riches” in a proper way (as in assisting those in need and in furthering “the good news”; Ga 2:10; Php 4:15) could never be friends of God and of his Son, Christ Jesus.

I don't have any problem with using my money to help or assist those in need and to further the good news. That's fine. But where does it say in the scriptures that this has to be done through an organisation that conceals or hides where such money goes. If I wanted to find out how my donation was used by the society, do you think that I could get a definitive answer?

Donating funds is often given credence by the account of the poor widow who Jesus pointed out:
Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than they all did.4 For all of these put in gifts out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in all the means of living she had." ( Luke 21:3,4)

But to me it seems Jesus was not so much commending the widow but rather showing how the religious leaders of Jesus day were pressuring everyone to contribute despite their financial situation. Sounds familiar?

I won't go into expensive Whiskey purchases v Ice cream money.

Suffice it to say the WT can do without my hard-earned pension money which is about all I have to live on now. The way I donate my money (unrighteous riches) to help others is in my hands now.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I don't usually watch the 10 minute or so videos that are put up on the Watchtower Library App as I don't find them particularly inspiring. However, I decided to watch the one entitled " Make friends by means of unrighteous riches" by Gajus Glockentin. After watching I decided never to donate money to this society ever again.

The Insight book Vol 2 under riches says:
Persons who do not use their “unrighteous riches” in a proper way (as in assisting those in need and in furthering “the good news”; Ga 2:10; Php 4:15) could never be friends of God and of his Son, Christ Jesus.

I don't have any problem with using my money to help or assist those in need and to further the good news. That's fine. But where does it say in the scriptures that this has to be done through an organisation that conceals or hides where such money goes. If I wanted to find out how my donation was used by the society, do you think that I could get a definitive answer?

Donating funds is often given credence by the account of the poor widow who Jesus pointed out:
Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than they all did.4 For all of these put in gifts out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in all the means of living she had." ( Luke 21:3,4)

But to me it seems Jesus was not so much commending the widow but rather showing how the religious leaders of Jesus day were pressuring everyone to contribute despite their financial situation. Sounds familiar?

I won't go into expensive Whiskey purchases v Ice cream money.

Suffice it to say the WT can do without my hard-earned pension money which is about all I have to live on now. The way I donate my money (unrighteous riches) to help others is in my hands now.
It is a bitter pill to swallow when one comes to understand the many tendrils of hypocrisy that the watchtower have conjured for themselves. Money, donations - it’s all part of watchtowers rich tapestry of deceit, but don’t let it detract from the joy of finding Jehovah’s true open hand of love and honesty. It took me years to recover a sense of belonging with Jehovah, and to be honest, I have yet to understand how watchtower have managed to deceive so many for so long. This seems to be the one place where one can really come to understand the message and it’s author.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
It would include even those outside of the organization who are in need.
Matthew 5:43-48 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
It would include even those outside of the organization who are in need.
Matthew 5:43-48 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Did not Russel say 'When He who says: "All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication."'?
 

Driven

Well-known member
I don't usually watch the 10 minute or so videos that are put up on the Watchtower Library App as I don't find them particularly inspiring. However, I decided to watch the one entitled " Make friends by means of unrighteous riches" by Gajus Glockentin. After watching I decided never to donate money to this society ever again.
I commented on this video on another thread. I was very disgusted with that video. It is the closest I have seen to the way that Christendom pleads for money and I really haven’t seen such a blatant appeal from Bethel before that video.

Here are a few quotes:

“Using our financial means to make friends with Jehovah and Jesus makes Jehovah happy and the result is a close relationship or we become friends.”

David understood that giving from his own material possessions or unrighteous riches would make Jehovah happy”.


This next one is not a word for word quote but a paraphasing what he said:
1 Corinthians 16:2, Paul was saying to make giving a priority to donate to those in need. You can setup online monthly contributions at JW. org so that we don’t have to think about it every month. Can you see how Jehovah, YOUR FRIEND, loves you for doing this?

And the last quote I will make for this comment is the summation of the talk when he said: “Let us continue to give from what we have. Let us continue to make sacrifices and we will be happy with having Jehovah and Jesus as our friends“.

When I looked at the link ”Newsroom for Journalists” I saw an article showing how they have finalized the last sale of their Brooklyn Headquarters. Here is a quote:

On December 12, 2018, Jehovah’s Witnesses sold their last remaining property at their former Brooklyn headquarters, One York Street, also known as 30 Front Street, to Fortis Dumbo Acquisition, LLC. Since 2004, the Witnesses have sold 37 of their properties in Brooklyn”.

I saw some tax returns online that said they were the ones filed by the Watchtower and those returns showed they had about a billion dollars.
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
I don't have any problem with using my money to help or assist those in need and to further the good news. That's fine. But where does it say in the scriptures that this has to be done through an organisation that conceals or hides where such money goes. If I wanted to find out how my donation was used by the society, do you think that I could get a definitive answer?
I seek to be generous but have a hard time giving to the wrong causes. For example the Red Cross is in the business of collecting millions in funds, and showering change (nickels dimes and pennies) on those in need.

How can we make our gifts meaningful? Should we give just to be happy givers? Should we care how the gift is to be used? Should we give freely to those we do not trust? Do we give to the poor who could work but choose not to? For them should we not say "if you do not want to work, neither will you eat"?

I would love to see some suggestions and scripture about this.
 
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jay

Well-known member
I always remember the scripture of taking care of the widows and fatherless boys. In our congregation, like others, you know who needs assistance but now without meetings it's hard. I will not donate a penny to the wts or Kingdom Hall. I think though that we need to take care of each other on this site. I'm not rich but what I have I like to share. How could we find out who needs help? Is it possible to start up a fund?
 

PJ54

Well-known member
I seek to be generous but have a hard time giving to the wrong causes. For example the Red Cross is in the business of collecting millions in funds, and showering change (nickels dimes and pennies) on those in need.

How can we make our gifts meaningful? Should we give just to be happy givers? Should we care how the gift is to be used? Should we give freely to those we do not trust? Do we give to the poor who could work but choose not to? For them should we not say "if you do not want to work, neither will you eat"?

I would love to see some suggestions and scripture about this.
This is where the challenge lies. The world is full of scammers & it's genuinely messed up. Often I hear is those genuinely in need don't often ask for help.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
I commented on this video on another thread. I was very disgusted with that video. It is the closest I have seen to the way that Christendom pleads for money and I really haven’t seen such a blatant appeal from Bethel before that video.

Here are a few quotes:

“Using our financial means to make friends with Jehovah and Jesus makes Jehovah happy and the result is a close relationship or we become friends.”

David understood that giving from his own material possessions or unrighteous riches would make Jehovah happy”.


This next one is not a word for word quote but a paraphasing what he said:
1 Corinthians 16:2, Paul was saying to make giving a priority to donate to those in need. You can setup online monthly contributions at JW. org so that we don’t have to think about it every month. Can you see how Jehovah, YOUR FRIEND, loves you for doing this?

And the last quote I will make for this comment is the summation of the talk when he said: “Let us continue to give from what we have. Let us continue to make sacrifices and we will be happy with having Jehovah and Jesus as our friends“.

When I looked at the link ”Newsroom for Journalists” I saw an article showing how they have finalized the last sale of their Brooklyn Headquarters. Here is a quote:

On December 12, 2018, Jehovah’s Witnesses sold their last remaining property at their former Brooklyn headquarters, One York Street, also known as 30 Front Street, to Fortis Dumbo Acquisition, LLC. Since 2004, the Witnesses have sold 37 of their properties in Brooklyn”.

I saw some tax returns online that said they were the ones filed by the Watchtower and those returns showed they had about a billion dollars.
John Cedars did a video where he did a pretty accurate estimate of the worldly take from contributions alone. It was somewhere around 2 billion dollars. Add the real estate, the stocks, and everything else. Minus the non-existant taxes and the non-existant labor costs. You get the idea that they're making out like bandits. That little Sophia better get to it and hand over that ice cream money! :LOL:

But to me it seems Jesus was not so much commending the widow but rather showing how the religious leaders of Jesus day were pressuring everyone to contribute despite their financial situation.
I always thought Jesus was praising the woman. She gave out of her want to support the temple, a requirement of the Law. Those useless parasites, the scribes and pharisees, did nothing but put loads on other's backs, like the woman. She was more righteous and praiseworthy than the "leaders" above her for following through no matter how tough it was for her.
 

Soul Sage

Well-known member
I stopped donating to them too in 2020. I do like helping people but I rather do so directly and you don't have to donate money but donate time to volunteer to help someone in need. I don't make much money anyways so if I'm giving anything to anyone in need it would be to help them to fix things up or whatever. Lately, I couldn't do that though as I needed to be vaccinated to watch as volunteer security and it's why they were having a hard time finding brothers to watch overnight as the requirements were availability to volunteer at night and be vaccinated which made the pool for help that much smaller, so it was mostly old retired elders that had to end up doing it instead of us young brothers. I would of done it if not for that ridiculous requirement.
 

Niobium

Well-known member
John Cedars did a video where he did a pretty accurate estimate of the worldly take from contributions alone. It was somewhere around 2 billion dollars. Add the real estate, the stocks, and everything else. Minus the non-existant taxes and the non-existant labor costs. You get the idea that they're making out like bandits. That little Sophia better get to it and hand over that ice cream money! :LOL:


I always thought Jesus was praising the woman. She gave out of her want to support the temple, a requirement of the Law. Those useless parasites, the scribes and pharisees, did nothing but put loads on other's backs, like the woman. She was more righteous and praiseworthy than the "leaders" above her for following through no matter how tough it was for her.
Luke 21
Then, while all the people were listening, he said to his disciples: 46 “Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in robes and who love greetings in the marketplaces and front seats in the synagogues and the most prominent places at evening meals, 47 and who devour the houses of the widows and for show make long prayers. These will receive a more severe judgment.

22
Now as he looked up, he saw the rich dropping their gifts into the treasury chests. 2 Then he saw a needy widow drop in two small coins of very little value, 3 and he said: “Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than they all did. 4 For all of these put in gifts out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in all the means of living she had.


I didn’t mean to imply that Jesus was not commending or praising the widow.

He most certainly was. However, considering the context, it seems Jesus was more concerned with pointing out the hypocritical attitude of the religious leaders and the wealthy rich people who were using the situation to bring praise to themselves.
Also, rather than helping the poor like the widow or making it easier for her to contribute, they were pressuring such ones to contribute even though it may have meant hardship for them.
Jesus was making the point that the scribes and religious leaders would receive a heavier judgment because of their lack of compassion for widows and poor people.
No doubt the widow was genuine in her desire to contribute but at the same time she must have felt the obligation to do so was a challenge for her. She put in all the means of living she had. Was this a good thing?
Only Jesus could know exactly how she was feeling at the time and what happened to her after she left.

Are we not getting the same attitude from the GB? Wasn’t it Anthony Morris who said that even if you are poor you are expected to contribute. And often the example of this widow is referred to in order to justify “guilt tripping” all of us into contributing whether we can afford to do so or not. Is this not soliciting funds despite the claims of the GB that they are not.
Would that mean giving to the society “all the means of living” that we have? I don’t think so.
Of course, how much we want to contribute is up to the individual and is a personal decision.
But how many contribute more than is reasonable because of the constant “reminders” from the GB to do so. (Ice cream money?)

2 Cor 9:7 says:
Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver


I hope that this clarifies my previous comment.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Luke 21
Then, while all the people were listening, he said to his disciples: 46 “Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in robes and who love greetings in the marketplaces and front seats in the synagogues and the most prominent places at evening meals, 47 and who devour the houses of the widows and for show make long prayers. These will receive a more severe judgment.

22
Now as he looked up, he saw the rich dropping their gifts into the treasury chests. 2 Then he saw a needy widow drop in two small coins of very little value, 3 and he said: “Truly I say to you that this poor widow put in more than they all did. 4 For all of these put in gifts out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, put in all the means of living she had.


I didn’t mean to imply that Jesus was not commending or praising the widow.

He most certainly was. However, considering the context, it seems Jesus was more concerned with pointing out the hypocritical attitude of the religious leaders and the wealthy rich people who were using the situation to bring praise to themselves.
Also, rather than helping the poor like the widow or making it easier for her to contribute, they were pressuring such ones to contribute even though it may have meant hardship for them.
Jesus was making the point that the scribes and religious leaders would receive a heavier judgment because of their lack of compassion for widows and poor people.
No doubt the widow was genuine in her desire to contribute but at the same time she must have felt the obligation to do so was a challenge for her. She put in all the means of living she had. Was this a good thing?
Only Jesus could know exactly how she was feeling at the time and what happened to her after she left.

Are we not getting the same attitude from the GB? Wasn’t it Anthony Morris who said that even if you are poor you are expected to contribute. And often the example of this widow is referred to in order to justify “guilt tripping” all of us into contributing whether we can afford to do so or not. Is this not soliciting funds despite the claims of the GB that they are not.
Would that mean giving to the society “all the means of living” that we have? I don’t think so.
Of course, how much we want to contribute is up to the individual and is a personal decision.
But how many contribute more than is reasonable because of the constant “reminders” from the GB to do so. (Ice cream money?)

2 Cor 9:7 says:
Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver


I hope that this clarifies my previous comment.
Many good points there. Jesus certainly was providing a contrast twixt the religious leaders and the widow. The parable really does illustrate the values of each party, and not the worth of coin. Motive is the key I believe. As pointed out, it would be rather self defeating to give out of our need, to the God that owns every atom of what we deem to be riches, and I doubt that the widow deprived herself greatly, though she may indeed have done so - but it was a balanced gift and thus righteous from both standpoints, in much the same way as we may ‘gift‘ our prayer and loyalty to Jehovah, yet spend the greater part of day consumed with earning a living. I feel that if Jehovah values even a sparrow, he values gifts of meaning to Himself in the same manner. The two coins of small value doubtless would have benefitted the widow, yet she weighed that against the furtherance of the word, and demonstrated to Jehovah that His furtherance was also part of her need and her service. Thus spiritual need was acknowledged through this small act of sacrifice. The contrast with the GB is self evident. They are their own reward, feasting at an empty table of fine marble, feeding on the vacuous meal of pride and adulation. They could well afford to give the widow and the fatherless child a ‘meal’, but they choose not to, but instead, ask even that from the sparsely filled plate of the lost sheep.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Many good points there. Jesus certainly was providing a contrast twixt the religious leaders and the widow. The parable really does illustrate the values of each party, and not the worth of coin. Motive is the key I believe. As pointed out, it would be rather self defeating to give out of our need, to the God that owns every atom of what we deem to be riches, and I doubt that the widow deprived herself greatly, though she may indeed have done so - but it was a balanced gift and thus righteous from both standpoints, in much the same way as we may ‘gift‘ our prayer and loyalty to Jehovah, yet spend the greater part of day consumed with earning a living. I feel that if Jehovah values even a sparrow, he values gifts of meaning to Himself in the same manner. The two coins of small value doubtless would have benefitted the widow, yet she weighed that against the furtherance of the word, and demonstrated to Jehovah that His furtherance was also part of her need and her service. Thus spiritual need was acknowledged through this small act of sacrifice. The contrast with the GB is self evident. They are their own reward, feasting at an empty table of fine marble, feeding on the vacuous meal of pride and adulation. They could well afford to give the widow and the fatherless child a ‘meal’, but they choose not to, but instead, ask even that from the sparsely filled plate of the lost sheep.
Indeed. I can only imagine the joy in the heart of a parent when their young child comes to them with a simple, self-made gift. It might be dirty, ugly and worth nothing but the parent is overjoyed that the child displayed consideration and love for the parent by making them a gift.

I hope and pray that this illustrates how Jehovah feels about us for our small, contributions to him.
 
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