Update on meeting with the Elders 12/28/21

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SusanB

Well-known member
BTD

Well, she’s trying to say that just as ‘Jesus was accused of every falsehood they could think of, made false assumptions, baseless accusations’ and so on…‘that’s what unrighteous judgement is’

She’s implying that those on the forum are giving her the same treatment as Jesus was given. That’s called…playing the victim or a more fitting word would be….the martyred witness.
Jesus was not defending himself, he was defending Jehovah’s righteousness, big difference. No one is attacking anyone on this forum for promoting the bible/God’s word or His principles or His righteousness. So, when one fights to make themself right, they are pursuing their own righteousness. This is not a slam but this is the truth about what is happening.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I dunno what's going on here anymore but its looks like its becoming a scripture battle to me. As we all know, any scripture can be twisted to fit ones view points. I just think the intention behind sharing a scripture is what is most important. Is the sharing of a scripture to prove yourself right/to be passive aggressive or is it to be loving and to encourage? I think we all could could take some time to turn to Corinthians and let this thread die. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend 💛
Well I was the one who started this thread and I do find it sad that it has come to this. I started this thread to let others know what my husband and I did to take a stand for Jehovah’s principles and to not remain silent. I thought it would be helpful to others and to see what the outcome was as far as whether they df’d us. Anyway, it had good intentions.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Well I was the one who started this thread and I do find it sad that it has come to this. I started this thread to let others know what my husband and I did to take a stand for Jehovah’s principles and to not remain silent. I thought it would be helpful to others and to see what the outcome was as far as whether they df’d us. Anyway, it had good intentions.
@Driven

I know that you definitely had good intentions sister. I haven’t met you but I do feel a connection with ones who take the initiative and try to be a peace maker not a peace breaker. 💗
 

BibleStudent

Well-known member
What principles of God are not being defended here? (A rehtorical question requiring no answer.) Are not Christians to treat strangers with kindness, to be hospitable? (Again rhetorical)

Jah-Son saw the treatment of a brand new one-day, member, during their first conversation, as un-kind, unloving, and un-Christian, as did I. I'm sure Jah-Son is not accustomed to the outright verbal brutality that frequently occurs on this site, to which many have become quite accustomed, and frankly calloused, numb to, and completely seared cauterized to, lacking any feeling of any kind, and freely participate in now, wheras they seemed disturbed by it previously, and contribute to without a twinge of conscience. It's like when a number of people witness a brutal crime and no one says anything and goes on and acts as if nothing happened.

And Jesus did defend himself on occassions, such as when he was accused of doing works by means of Beelzebub. If someone, without basis, falsly implies that a faithful Christian is an alcoholic barfly, is this not a reflection on Christ and the God the Christian worships, Jehovah? Again rhetoricle, no response necessary. You can't lie about and malign and smear a Christian without insulting Christ and Jehovah. And a peacemaker? 🤯 Wow. I even tried to just ignore the c....p that was flung, but it kept being flung by this "peacemaker". I noticed too how the "peacemaker" rejoiced and found it humorous when I finally acknowledged their slander.

I believe Proverbs saw as soon as they joined, that they were being told to abandon the organization, and join ex-JWs who left the organization and that's why they saw this as the wrong forum for them (among other things) and ran for the door. Quoting from one post, "we don’t wish to hasten WTs inevitable demise, we want more like you to come out from it". Who can blame him or her? If I was an uninformed JW and was looking for a un-vexed support group and thought I'd found one, and someone said that to me, I'd run for the exit as well. Was Proverbs lying when they said they thought this site was for un-jabbed Witnesses? Their obvious spiritual point of view, to me, makes that unlikely. But this forum is loaded with cynics who view any non anti-Watchtower persons in the worst possible light.

Sorry your thread went off topic but an issue was raised due to how someone new was mistreated. I'd say the loss of that one due to harshness and lack of love shown trumps a thread as far as priorities, but that's just simple-minded me. And, by the way, very well meaning, well researched and spiritually and Biblically based threads that others have posted on this forum have been bombed personally by you.

"He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice, to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?" Micah 6:8

On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law." Gal 5:22, 23

At any rate I wish to sincerely say thank you to Jess and Jah-Son for their level of integrity here. May Jehovah bless both of you.

I'm letting this go now, I got sucked in here, which I'm sure was the intent, but it's quite frankly more than I can stomach. 🤢 🤮

No doubt someone will feel the irresistable urge and need to fling their poo, and to add more fuel to the fire and seek to get the last word in. Have fun flinging.
🙉🙊🙈 💩💩💩
 
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Jess

Well-known member
Well I was the one who started this thread and I do find it sad that it has come to this. I started this thread to let others know what my husband and I did to take a stand for Jehovah’s principles and to not remain silent. I thought it would be helpful to others and to see what the outcome was as far as whether they df’d us. Anyway, it had good intentions.
I know I did think of that too myself. It’s too bad that’s there isn’t an option to end comments on thread for a period of time. Just don’t want to deter new people who arrive here looking for support in this whole situation to get a bad impression based on how this thread went off course. In no way meant to detract from your excellent letter and response to the elders.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I know I did think of that too myself. It’s too bad that’s there isn’t an option to end comments on thread for a period of time. Just don’t want to deter new people who arrive here looking for support in this whole situation to get a bad impression based on how this thread went off course. In no way meant to detract from your excellent letter and response to the elders.
I know and understand your motive is love and pursuit of peace.
 

surfergirl

Well-known member
Well I was the one who started this thread and I do find it sad that it has come to this. I started this thread to let others know what my husband and I did to take a stand for Jehovah’s principles and to not remain silent. I thought it would be helpful to others and to see what the outcome was as far as whether they df’d us. Anyway, it had good intentions.
🥰 You both were were/are very helpful in numerous ways.with this thread.
And I know you will continue to be somehow.
I'm sorry you've had interference.
Hope and pray you will find a way around this obstacle. [ if that's what you wish] I'm going to be taking a break for a while, but I will be checking back to see what you have posted about your life and your observances, etc.. Please keep up your efforts, I'm actually wondering why I haven't been df due to texts I have shared with some of the elders. And I'm sure many others are very interested in what happens with you ☺️
 

Nomex

Well-known member
In reality, that is the main feature here, in that we all at least try to enjoy the good in each other and are interested in the ways of each other in seeking fellowship. The site is a spiritual gold mine, but gold has to first be dug up, then refined, then smelted, then hammered into shape, then crafted by the artisan. Hopefully, we will one day be able to wear the ring of marriage to Jehovah’s idea of love.
You, brother are a true gem. Amen!
 

BibleStudent

Well-known member
The only people who leave this forum are those who are confrontational and lack the ability to humble themselves. I'll refer to a recent example of when I felt slighted by a comment by BillyRay. When I responded, I didn't attack, I just pointed out how I felt insulted. Instead of replying defensively, he was gracious and kind, and I gained a brother. He apologized for any misconception his comment implied and didn't do the old, "sorry, BUT." It's not easy to feel slighted and turn the other cheek, but Jesus said we must do just that. You don't seem to grasp this command, and thus you continue to attack those you feel slighted you. You're also a tad self-righteous, judgmental and passive aggressive. I gave you the benefit of the doubt before, but enough is enough already. JWs who come here and are able to remain meek and humble, while using LOVE to guide their comments, tend to stick around. Those who dwell on the inevitable negative situations that will ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE happen, use this as an excuse to move on. I find this forum uplifting and beneficial to my spiritual health.
@Carl
I reread your post and felt the need to respond to it.
Frankly, I've met total strangers in the grocery store who showed more warmth, were more kind, thoughtful, considerate and showed more love to a stranger, than I saw shown to a new member here. In fact quite recently, I witnessed such love of a stranger in a store, and it brought me to tears.

I really don't see why there was such rash and harsh judgement of this person, on the part of some here, except that it was because they had no bitterness or hatred towards the org or the GB. I don't feel Proverbs lacked humility at all, but was even self-effacing and was simply looking for, and thought they'd found, an un-jabbed JW support group. Perhaps you may think that's naiive, but why just assume they are lying without any basis for concluding such? I try to give people the benefit of the doubt unless I see a reason, or reasons not to do so. I believe this is the type of unrighteous judgement that Jesus referred to in Matthew chapter 7. What Did Jesus Mean "Judge not, that you be not judged."?

Not all Witnesses are as "enlightened" as some here believe themselves to be ("we see"), in fact, very few really know the truth about the truth. Robert, I believe estimates about 10,000 who know his interpretations, a drop compared to 8M JWs. If a person is blind, they do have a legitimate handicap, and an excuse for not being able to see. I don't believe Proverbs was as blind as it was implied he or she was though. Proverbs has simply chosen the wise course to leave things in Jehovah's hands, since it's only Jehovah who can truly fix things. That's not blindness, that's faith and trust in God, not in oneself. In my humble, simple-minded opinion.
A blind person cannot, in all fairness, be punished and penalized for unintentional blindness. “If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” John 9:41

It could just be swept under the rug, after all, we wouldn't want to bring reproach on Jehovah. But most of us should know well the folly of that. Perhaps its probably better, and rmore loving, MHO, to make new ones aware of what they may be confronted with, if they don't conform to popular opinion and attitudes here. Then they won't be blindsided, as others have been. Until this forum I truly had no idea there was so much bitterness towards Jehovah's Witnesses. I certainly didn't expect to find that here. One thing I can say, this forum has been an eye-opener for me in that respect.
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
@Carl
I reread your post and felt the need to respond to it.
Frankly, I've met total strangers in the grocery store who showed more warmth, were more kind, thoughtful, considerate and loving that the welcoming party here showed to a new member. I really don't see why there was such rash and harsh judgement of this person, except it was because they had no bitterness or hatred towards the org or the GB. I don't feel Proverbs lacked humility at all, but was even self-effacing and was simply looking for, and thought they'd found, an un-jabbed JW support group. Perhaps you may think that's naiive, but why just assume they are lying without any basis for concluding such? I try to give people the benefit of the doubt unless I see a reason, or reasons not to do so. I believe this is the type of unrighteous judgement thatJesus referred to in Matthew chapter 7.
Not all Witnesses are as "enlightened" as some here believe themselves to be ("we see"). If a person is blind, they do have a legitimate handicap, and an excuse for not being able to see. I don't believe Proverbs was as blind as it was implied he or she was though. Proverbs has simply chosen the wise course to leave things in Jehovah's hands, since it's only Jehovah who can fix things. That's not blindness, that's faith and trust in God, not in oneself. In my humble, simple-minded opinion.
“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” John 9:41

It could just be swept under the rug, after all, we wouldn't want to bring reproach on Jehovah. We well know the folly of that. Perhaps its better new ones are aware of what they may be confronted with, if they don't conform to popular opinion and attitudes here. Then they won't be blindsided as others have been.
I’m not exactly sure what your problem is, although I could think of a few reasons why you’re one of the most rude and cruel individuals ( oh wait, you also have other aliases on this forum, right? ) Why can’t you just let it go? Oh! No! Can’t do that because your objective is to discourage and batter the friends on this forum!

Of all people, why Carl? You said that you’ve met “total strangers in the grocery store who showed more warmth, were more kind, thoughtful, considerate and loving than the welcoming party here” Well, good for you…why don’t you go get your comfort from them? Because no matter what anyone says on here, no matter how positive…you see the negative. What is it with you? Are you a glutton for punishment? Or do you just insist on taking everything we say and turn it into a drama?

I’m sure Carl will have something to say in response to your degrading comment. I’m not going to say anymore after this. Unlike you who keeps saying you’re signing off and you never do!
I only come in Carl’s defense, one, because I believe he’s a good man and he wasn‘t out of place in what he said to you…You just don’t know kindness and love when you see it! Wake up woman! We’re supposed to be all in this together, but you don’t seem to have the heart to understand this, so maybe there’s no use going on about this with you!

I do hope you do find your niche somewhere along your way…just let it go.
 
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BibleStudent

Well-known member
I believe Carl is a good person as well, as are others on this forum. And I was certainly not attacking Carl, simply responding to his post. Just because I may not agree with everything he may have said, or entirely with his viewpoint is not an attack on him. Again, you make untrue assumptions and false accusations and impute bad motives as to my objectives (i.e. poo flinging). I'm not seeking comfort or support from anyone here, nor do I expect it. I'm not a conformist just to make others comfortable, but I speak what I believe is true, and not for the sole purpose of pleasing men or to tickle the ears of the hearers. Some may not like that, but I think there is a lack of true honesty and the truth should be spoken.

Most of those, who were here, my friends, who are JWs or ones studying have left or gone silent due to seeing serious abuse here on the part of some of the ex-jws, mainly, towards JWs, that some of their group, shall we say, act as if it never happened, thus "gaslighting". There are double standards here, and often bad is considered good, and good, bad. I still have some friends who are members but who never post here or participate anymore, and rarely visit this site because of what they've witnessed. I'm not sure what you view as cruel, that I respond to cruel mocking and ridiculing by exposing it, as well as false and slanderous implications about my character or what exactly? No reply needed. Some of the members here have attacked every post I've made at times, out of pure vindictiveness and spite. That was why Jacobs Ladder was created, to throw off the attacks of haters. So, Jesus did the same to throw off his enemies and attended a festival in secret. Just because one exposes the truth does not make one cruel. Many here expose things about the GB, and even add misinformation to the truth, elaborate, and speculate without proof. Billy Ray pointed that out the other day about a false statement of proof the GB got money for pushing the jab.

And, its also untrue that I respond to truly positive posts in a negative way, as can be seen in a number of responses in this thread. But it seems you prefer to only see bad, along with your buddies, a mob mentality. I'm sure you will get kudos and "likes" from them.

If anyone reasonable reads through this thread, as did Jah-Son, who read through the entire thread, and also saw and spoke out about what happened to Proverbs as well, I think they'd see it as well.

As you came somewhat later, you are very likely not be aware of some of the really unbelievable things that have occurred on this forum. I don't happen to agree with certain viewpoints, negative attitudes, bitterness, constant bashing of the Watchtower, the org, the gov body, but that doesn't mean I hate the individuals who have those feelings and constantly express them. And, I'm not the only one who's become weary of the constantly negative vibe here, as it gets old really quick, and quite frankly, boring. To me, and others, its not encouraging or upbuilding.

Nor do I hate even those who've been extremely mean and cruel here. My hope is that as many as possible will be saved from among mankind and seek Jehovah and find his favour before its too late. Proverbs included; my enemies included, even cruel and mean persons. Yes, there are enemies, Christ had enemies, Robert King has enemies, I have enemies who do like what I say. That's life.

I believe Christians should be kind to strangers, and I didn't see that in the case with Proverbs. I don't see that blaming the stranger for leaving something that obviously didn't sit right with them, from a uninformed JW standpoint, such as 'leave the org and join us' is fair. Even some of those who've left the org, and dissassociated themselves are unsure of their standing with God, or even their own salvation, and yet they encourage others to leave the organization. Though they lack real spirtuality and stability, they want to be spiritual guides for others. Why? Isn't that like the blind leading the blind? Matt. 15:14. Again, rhetoricle. That's a personal decision that each person must make, and is between them and Jehovah God. No one should be coerced or pressured to leave the organization until they feel it's appropriate for them to do so, nor criticized for choosing to stay; in my humble, simple-minded opinion anyway. And I believe it is Scriptural as 'each one must work out their own salvation, with fear and trembling'. Phil. 2:12
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I believe Carl is a good person as well, as are others on this forum. And I was certainly not attacking Carl, simply responding to his post. Just because I may not agree with everything he may have said, or entirely with his viewpoint is not an attack on him. Again, you make untrue assumptions and false accusations and impute bad motives as to my objectives. I'm not seeking comfort or support from anyone here, nor do I expect it. I'm not a conformist just to make others comfortable, but I speak what I believe is true, and not for the sole purpose of pleasing men or to tickle the ears of the hearers. Some may not like that, but I think there is a lack of true honesty and the truth should be spoken.

Most of those, who were here, my friends, who are JWs or ones studying have left or gone silent due to seeing serious abuse here on the part of some of the ex-jws, mainly, towards JWs, that some of their group, shall we say, act as if it never happened, thus "gaslighting". There are double stands here, and often bad is considered good, and good, bad. I still have some friends who are members but who never post here, and rarely visit this site because of what they've witnessed. I'm not sure what you view as cruel, that I respond to cruel mocking and ridiculing by exposing it, as well as false and slandourous implications about my character or what exactly. Just because one exposes the truth does not make one cruel. Many here expose things about the GB, and even add misinformation to the truth, elaborate, and speculate without proof. Billy Ray pointed that out the other day about a false statement of proof the GB got money for pushing the jab.

And, its also untrue that I respond to truly positive posts in a negative way, as can be seen in a number of responses in this thread. But it seems you prefer to only see bad, along with your buddies.

If anyone reads through this thread, as did Jah-Son, who read through the entire thread, and also saw and spoke out about what happened to Proverbs as well, if reasonable, I think they'd see it as well. As you came somewhat later, you are very likely not be aware of some of the really unbelievable ithings that have occurred on this forum. I don't happen to agree with certain viewpoints, negative attitudes, bitterness, constant bashing of the Watchtower, the org, the gov body, but that doesn't mean I hate the individuals who have those feelings and constantly express them. And, I'm not the only one who's become weary of the constant negative vibe, as it gets old really quick, and quite frankly, boring. To me, and others, its not encouraging or upbuilding. Nor do I hate even those who've been extremely mean and cruel here. My hope is that as many as possible will be saved from among mankind and seek Jehovah and find his favour before its too late. Proverbs included; my enemies included. Yes, there are enemies, Christ had enemies, Robert King has enemies, I have enemies who do like what I say. That's life. I believe Christians should be kind to strangers, and I didn't see that in the case with Proverbs. I don't see that blaming the stranger for leaving something that obviously didn't sit right with them, from a uninformed JW standpoint, such as 'leave the org and join us' is fair. Even some of those who've left the org, and dissassociated themselves are unsure of their standing with God, or even their own salvation, and yet they encourage others to leave the organization. That's a personal decision that each person must make, and is between them and Jehovah God. No one should be coerced or pressured to leave the organization until they feel it's appropriate for them to do so. In my humble, simple-minded opinion anyway.
Years ago when I use to get negative and outright hostile messages from a family member my husband would tell me to not respond, then when it got to be where it was overbearing he said just to turn the phone off! Now…that’s what I choose to do with you!
 

BibleStudent

Well-known member
Years ago when I use to get negative and outright hostile messages from a family member my husband would tell me to not respond, then when it got to be where it was overbearing he said just to turn the phone off! Now…that’s what I choose to do with you!
Oh, good. 😉👍
You basicly forced me to resond to you, by repeatedly making (quoting your words above here) "negative and outright hostile messages" to me, and then then fault me for resonding to you; kind of a d..med if you do, d..med if you don't, no win, catch 22 approach? (rhetoricle) Got'cha 😉. When I didn't respond to you you got mad, now I'm goaded into a response and you block me? (rhetoricle)

People are not just rediculous but hilarious.

There was nothing hostile in what I said at all, simply the honest truth. Your hostility is however quite apparent. I wish more like you would just use the ignore feature rather than try to make a dispute and add fuel to the fire with their hostility, smearing, and childish name calling. My comment to you was not hostile or negative, just real, and honest. I wish you all the best. God bless you. 💗⚘ And thank you. Perfect solution. 👍

Human nature hasn't changed in 2,000 years, or even 6,000 years. People are the same as they were in Jesus day. They are the same as they were prior to the flood of Noah's day.
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Jesus was not defending himself, he was defending Jehovah’s righteousness, big difference. No one is attacking anyone on this forum for promoting the bible/God’s word or His principles or His righteousness. So, when one fights to make themself right, they are pursuing their own righteousness. This is not a slam but this is the truth about what is happening.
I had never thought of it in that respect; that Jesus never defended himself, but it’s true. He explained himself on many occasions and though that was at times difficult to understand, it could not be refuted. I recall being told by a publisher that if one needs to explain their plot, it’s not worth the reading. Come to think about it, it’s rather like an artist trying to explaining the ‘deep’ meaning behind their daub.
 

BibleStudent

Well-known member
The Message Bible
John 5:17-20

17 But Jesus defended himself. “My Father is working straight through, even on the Sabbath. So am I.”


18 That really set them off. The Jews were now not only out to expose him; they were out to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was calling God his own Father, putting himself on a level with God.

What the Father Does, the Son Does

19-20 So Jesus explained himself at length. “I’m telling you this straight. The Son can’t independently do a thing, only what he sees the Father doing. What the Father does, the Son does. The Father loves the Son and includes him in everything he is doing."

John 5:17 NIV
"In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”


"LET GOD BE FOUND TRUE. THOUGH EVERY MAN A LIAR." Rom. 3:4
I'm not shouting by using all caps here, but such a deep truth ought to be shouted from the rooftops.

 
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Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
The Message Bible
John 5:17-20

17 But Jesus defended himself. “My Father is working straight through, even on the Sabbath. So am I.”


18 That really set them off. The Jews were now not only out to expose him; they were out to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was calling God his own Father, putting himself on a level with God.

What the Father Does, the Son Does

19-20 So Jesus explained himself at length. “I’m telling you this straight. The Son can’t independently do a thing, only what he sees the Father doing. What the Father does, the Son does. The Father loves the Son and includes him in everything he is doing."

John 5:17 NIV
"In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”


"LET GOD BE FOUND TRUE. THOUGH EVERY MAN A LIAR." Rom. 3:4
I'm not shouting by using all caps here, but such a deep truth ought to be shouted from the rooftops.

You were away for a while and everyone seemed to be getting along fine. Then you come back and the strife starts again. I think it is better if you refrain from posting. In fact, I insist on it. This thread is now closed.
 
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