What do these texts mean?

LuisMerino9412

Well-known member
But I will gather the captives of Moʹab in the final part of the days,’ declares Jehovah.
“But in the final part of the days, I will gather the captives of Eʹlam,” declares Jehovah.

These texts are found in Jeremiah 48:47 and 49:37.

What do they mean? Are they telling that people from a part of Christendom (Moab represents it) and pagan religions or nations that do not know the truth or have any close relation to God's people (Elam) will be saved at the end?
Or maybe they represent the Great crowd as they come from all the nations and are not spiritual Israelites?
I have always feel amazed and intrigued by these texts. What do you think? I would appreciate your inputs and answers. Thank you. :) 🤔
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
But I will gather the captives of Moʹab in the final part of the days,’ declares Jehovah.
“But in the final part of the days, I will gather the captives of Eʹlam,” declares Jehovah.

These texts are found in Jeremiah 48:47 and 49:37.

What do they mean? Are they telling that people from a part of Christendom (Moab represents it) and pagan religions or nations that do not know the truth or have any close relation to God's people (Elam) will be saved at the end?
Or maybe they represent the Great crowd as they come from all the nations and are not spiritual Israelites?
I have always feel amazed and intrigued by these texts. What do you think? I would appreciate your inputs and answers. Thank you. :) 🤔
Advance disclaimer: I am not the most readable ink in the quill. (Translation, I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer)

For one, let's dispense with "spiritual Israelites" because those are the anointed, chosen and sealed ones.

I am of the thinking that Elam and Moab will indeed contribute to making up a part of the Great Crowd that emerges from the Great Tribulation. Upon the final witness given by the 'two witnesses', I am thinking many from Christendom and/or Pagandom will respond favorably before the message turns to judgment. So @LuisMerino9412, I find your question(s) really interesting and I am very much looking forward to the others on this forum who know WAY MORE than I do to clear up the way for us.

Med
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
I am of the thinking that Elam and Moab will indeed contribute to making up a part of the Great Crowd that emerges from the Great Tribulation.
I am the lowest of the low and certainly do not know what I am talking about (translation- "why are you talking")

I defer to those with greater knowledge and discernment on this one, but I am immediately thinking of the issue of circumcision. I expect that there will be anointed that are not associated with the watchtower. (I know that's like blasphemy here right?)

I say this because Jehovah may choose whom ever he wants. And we do know that circumcision was the covenant but now it is circumcision of the heart that matters.

I am very interested to know if I am wrong based on scripture.
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
that do not know the truth
I did not catch this part initially: Where ever they come out of they will have to know the truth, and will have to see the error in the respective religion they may have come from. I think if one searches with their whole heart and mind and soul they will find it. The watchtower is a publisher and has ministers who are planting seed. The seed comes from the word, and it is not copyright WT.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
These texts are found in Jeremiah 48:47 and 49:37.
We know the spiritual relatives of Israel are Moab, Ammon and Edom and they survive the trib (Dan11:41) even conspiring with the beast to overwhelm Christ's sanctuary (Zeph 2:8) The establishment of Christ Zion will shake the nations bringing in the precious ones. Hag 2:7. May be this will round some understanding?
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Obviously, Moab and Elam no longer exist as nations or even as distinct people. In the latter chapters of Jeremiah Jehovah denounced numerous nations including Philistia, Edom, the Ammonites, along with Moab and Elam. Since none of those nations exist now they symbolize peoples who will exist when Christ returns during the final part of the days. Strictly speaking, Israel typifies the spiritual Israel of God, as Paul called anointed Christians. Therefore, in some prophecies, people from nations might represent non-anointed persons who submit to Christ.
 
Z

Zane

Guest
But I will gather the captives of Moʹab in the final part of the days,’ declares Jehovah.
“But in the final part of the days, I will gather the captives of Eʹlam,” declares Jehovah.

These texts are found in Jeremiah 48:47 and 49:37.

What do they mean? Are they telling that people from a part of Christendom (Moab represents it) and pagan religions or nations that do not know the truth or have any close relation to God's people (Elam) will be saved at the end?
Or maybe they represent the Great crowd as they come from all the nations and are not spiritual Israelites?
I have always feel amazed and intrigued by these texts. What do you think? I would appreciate your inputs and answers. Thank you. :) 🤔

You ask who are the ones referred to in these two verses:

(Jeremiah 48:47)
But I will gather the captives of Moʹab in the final part of the days,’ declares Jehovah.

(Jeremiah 49:39) “But in the final part of the days, I will gather the captives of Eʹlam,” declares Jehovah.

Those who are gathered are those who have been dispersed.

They are brought back to be together once again.

(Deuteronomy 30:3) Jehovah your God will then bring back your captives and show you mercy and regather you from all the peoples where Jehovah your God has scattered you.

(Psalm 147:2) Jehovah is building Jerusalem; He gathers together the dispersed ones of Israel.

(Isaiah 11:11, 12) In that day Jehovah will again offer his hand, a second time, to reclaim the remnant of his people who are left from As·syrʹi·a, from Egypt, from Pathʹros, from Cush, from Eʹlam, from Shiʹnar, from Haʹmath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 He will raise up a signal for the nations and gather the dispersed ones of Israel, and he will gather together the scattered ones of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

(Jeremiah 30:3) For “look! the days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will gather the captives of my people, Israel and Judah,” says Jehovah, “and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers, and they will possess it once again.”’”

(Jeremiah 30:10, 11) “And you, my servant Jacob, do not be afraid,” declares Jehovah, “And do not be terrified, O Israel. For I will save you from far away And your offspring from the land of their captivity. Jacob will return and be calm and undisturbed, With no one to make them afraid.” 11 “For I am with you,” declares Jehovah, “to save you. But I will make an extermination among all the nations to which I scattered you; However, you I will not exterminate. I will discipline you to the proper degree, And I will by no means leave you unpunished.”

(Ezekiel 11:17-20) “Therefore say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will also collect you from the peoples and gather you from the lands to which you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

(Ezekiel 34:13, 14) I will bring them out from the peoples and collect them together from the lands and bring them into their land and feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams and by all the dwelling places of the land. 14 In a good pasture I will feed them, and the land where they graze will be on Israel’s high mountains. They will lie down there in a good grazing land, and they will feed on choice pastures on the mountains of Israel.”

(Ezekiel 39:25) “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I will restore the captives of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will zealously defend my holy name.

(Ezekiel 39:28, 29) “‘They will have to know that I am Jehovah their God when I send them into exile among the nations and then gather them back to their land, not leaving any of them behind. 29 I will not hide my face from them any longer, for I will pour out my spirit on the house of Israel,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”

(Amos 9:14, 15) I will gather back the captives of my people Israel, And they will rebuild the desolated cities and inhabit them; They will plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.’ 15 ‘I will plant them on their land, And they will never again be uprooted From their land that I have given them,’ says Jehovah your God.”

The answer to your question is the same answer to this question:

Who were once all together but were then scattered?

I would also underline who those verses say they are and the place they are regathered "back" to, but people don't like it when i point out what the Bible says if contradicts what they think.

:)
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
You ask who are the ones referred to in these two verses:

(Jeremiah 48:47)
But I will gather the captives of Moʹab in the final part of the days,’ declares Jehovah.

(Jeremiah 49:39) “But in the final part of the days, I will gather the captives of Eʹlam,” declares Jehovah.

Those who are gathered are those who have been dispersed.

They are brought back to be together once again.

(Deuteronomy 30:3) Jehovah your God will then bring back your captives and show you mercy and regather you from all the peoples where Jehovah your God has scattered you.

(Psalm 147:2) Jehovah is building Jerusalem; He gathers together the dispersed ones of Israel.

(Isaiah 11:11, 12) In that day Jehovah will again offer his hand, a second time, to reclaim the remnant of his people who are left from As·syrʹi·a, from Egypt, from Pathʹros, from Cush, from Eʹlam, from Shiʹnar, from Haʹmath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 He will raise up a signal for the nations and gather the dispersed ones of Israel, and he will gather together the scattered ones of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

(Jeremiah 30:3) For “look! the days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will gather the captives of my people, Israel and Judah,” says Jehovah, “and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers, and they will possess it once again.”’”

(Jeremiah 30:10, 11) “And you, my servant Jacob, do not be afraid,” declares Jehovah, “And do not be terrified, O Israel. For I will save you from far away And your offspring from the land of their captivity. Jacob will return and be calm and undisturbed, With no one to make them afraid.” 11 “For I am with you,” declares Jehovah, “to save you. But I will make an extermination among all the nations to which I scattered you; However, you I will not exterminate. I will discipline you to the proper degree, And I will by no means leave you unpunished.”

(Ezekiel 11:17-20) “Therefore say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will also collect you from the peoples and gather you from the lands to which you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

(Ezekiel 34:13, 14) I will bring them out from the peoples and collect them together from the lands and bring them into their land and feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams and by all the dwelling places of the land. 14 In a good pasture I will feed them, and the land where they graze will be on Israel’s high mountains. They will lie down there in a good grazing land, and they will feed on choice pastures on the mountains of Israel.”

(Ezekiel 39:25) “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I will restore the captives of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will zealously defend my holy name.

(Ezekiel 39:28, 29) “‘They will have to know that I am Jehovah their God when I send them into exile among the nations and then gather them back to their land, not leaving any of them behind. 29 I will not hide my face from them any longer, for I will pour out my spirit on the house of Israel,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”

(Amos 9:14, 15) I will gather back the captives of my people Israel, And they will rebuild the desolated cities and inhabit them; They will plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.’ 15 ‘I will plant them on their land, And they will never again be uprooted From their land that I have given them,’ says Jehovah your God.”

The answer to your question is the same answer to this question:

Who were once all together but were then scattered?

I would also underline who those verses say they are and the place they are regathered "back" to, but people don't like it when i point out what the Bible says if contradicts what they think.

:)
Accurate knowledge is important but at this stage surely it is informed speculation on our part. Not really necessary for salvation at this time to know the workings of Christ and Zion?. Would that be a fair comment Zane? Good exercise in scripture. Maybe I have become to complacent but I know He will set matters straight...soon now.
 
Z

Zane

Guest
Accurate knowledge is.... Not really necessary for salvation....

Very true!!

(1 Corinthians 13:9-12) For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 For now we see in hazy outline (indistinctly) by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.

Only "then", "when what is complete comes", will we "know accurately."

But as he says in the very next verse:

(1 Corinthians 13:13)
Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.

It is faith, hope, and love that marks a true Christian, not accurate knowledge.

A good, God-fearing person is still that, despite how accurate their knowledge is. (Ro 14:1-4)

Are they sheep-like, or goat-like?. (Mt 25:32, 33)

:)
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Very true!!

(1 Corinthians 13:9-12) For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 For now we see in hazy outline (indistinctly) by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.

Only "then", "when what is complete comes", will we "know accurately."

But as he says in the very next verse:

(1 Corinthians 13:13)
Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.

It is faith, hope, and love that marks a true Christian, not accurate knowledge.

A good, God-fearing person is still that, despite how accurate their knowledge is. (Ro 14:1-4)

Are they sheep-like, or goat-like?. (Mt 25:32, 33)

:)
I impressed that accurate knowledge is important but the details of future workings of Zion and Christ is not essential at this time. I had to correct the context in which you quoted me Accuracy in this respect is important for those listening?
 
Z

Zane

Guest
I impressed that accurate knowledge is important but the details of future workings of Zion and Christ is not essential at this time. I had to correct the context in which you quoted me Accuracy in this respect is important for those listening?

Oh yes, i highly value "accurate knowledge" and strive hard to obtain it, but as you say, it is not a requirement for salvation.

:)
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Oh yes, i highly value "accurate knowledge" and strive hard to obtain it, but as you say, it is not a requirement for salvation.

:)
Wow! You have missquoted me again. Never mind...forward! For posterity here is the original quote ..."Not really necessary for salvation at this time to know the workings of Christ and Zion?".
I believe accurate knowledge is vital to salvation! Peace brother! Just to clarify....The coming of Christ and His outworkings, the education programme through zion we can only speculate..but the accuracy of understanding the good news of the Christ and Jah is vital..? Anyway Zane I should have put it over better so forgive me for labouring the point.
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
Obviously, Moab and Elam no longer exist as nations or even as distinct people. In the latter chapters of Jeremiah Jehovah denounced numerous nations including Philistia, Edom, the Ammonites, along with Moab and Elam. Since none of those nations exist now they symbolize peoples who will exist when Christ returns during the final part of the days. Strictly speaking, Israel typifies the spiritual Israel of God, as Paul called anointed Christians. Therefore, in some prophecies, people from nations might represent non-anointed persons who submit to Christ.
This makes so much sense. For me it’s a lightbulb moment because I have wondered the same thing as LuisMerino. And, this perfectly harmonizes with Zechariah 8:23: “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”

Just like with Moab and Edom, they are not actually Jews but they are related. Same with anointed versus those who are not anointed. It is the anointed who are referred to as “Jews” which is obviously symbolic since some anointed ones are not jewish.
 
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