What I really think! Robert King

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

When we tell people to 'just change,' we’re often asking them to do something that goes against how they’ve been wired since they were children. It’s far more difficult and deeply ingrained than most people in this congregation realize.

Nobody is telling us "just to change" The more I studied God's word, the more I realised I was a million miles away from being someone who Jehovah approved of. But I persisted anyway, I also learned that in this system I'd never be able to fully get rid of those ingrained, horrible traits that we ALL struggle with, and so all we can do is TRY, one day at a time, going in the right direction, falling down, getting back up, falling down, getting back up again. That's all that Jehovah expects from us, that we try. After many years of trying, we do notice slight improvements, it's physically and mentally impossible for their to be no improvement at all. The more you practice something, the better you get at it. Thank goodness we've got a thousand years of practicing in a clean and wholesome world, it'll make it a lot easier for us

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

they are just trying to understand why they don't fit the mold everyone else is forcing them into.

I've had this exact same problem since I was little too, even in the congregation I experienced the same problem! It's only my relationship with Jehovah that helps me to cope with that feeling. Actually, it says in the Bible somewhere to stop being molded by the world. At the end of the day, our closest relationship needs to be with Jehovah, no-one else, because one day, we're only going to have Jehovah..

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

. We shouldn't be shutting them out of the fortress;

As far as I'm aware, no-one is shutting anyone out of anywhere!

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I’ve been reflecting on the traditional idea that we have to "fix" ourselves—or others—to be worthy of Paradise

We only need to keep trying, with the right motive, that's what counts with Jehovah

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

If our "works" don't result in more love and a wider welcome, are we really doing the work the Creator intended?

As far as I'm aware from my studies of the Bible, Jehovah welcomes everyone anyone to take advantage of the ransom sacrifice, our work is to make this and Jehovah's name known to as many people as we can and to help where we can. Ultimately no-one else is responsible for another person's faith or eternal life, once we have enough knowledge we have to actually stand on our own 2 feet..

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

can we truly say they are "deceived" just because of their orientation? If the fruit is good—love, kindness, and peace—then the tree cannot be rotten.

That's up to each individual to work that out for themselves from their study of God's word..

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Could the real deception be the fear that keeps us from accepting the variety of Jehovah’s creation?

I absolutely love the variety in Jehovah's creation. Can you imagine how Adam and Eve must have felt every time they had another baby and it was a different "variety"?? As someone who's had 4 kids and refused to learn whether it was a boy or a girl before giving birth, I can vouch for the fact that it was very exciting, and a good distraction from the horrific experience of giving birth

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

The Incentive: If the goal is to produce kings and priests who can judge the world with mercy, wouldn't those individuals need to understand the full reality of the human experience

So you're saying that some of the annointed may have been practising homosexuals? If so, that's a good thing, because it means they totally understand other ex homosexuals. That should give you a lot of encouragement to continue down the "narrow" path

 

[Rollercoaster]

‘the comfort of being able to be judgemental must be immense.’

My daughter is lesbian and my grandson is “bi” - anyone will do it seems. My other grandson is heavily autistic (same as me, as was my mother, and all my siblings and their offspring, and my aunt; my older sister is a JW, and an elders wife, and the most withdrawn autistic person one could wish to meet - she almost enjoys shunning me, and my other son got the downside (there is no upside) of autism and is permanently cared for. My daughter by my second marriage is highly autistic (my fault again) and is a qualified psychologist working with children. None of us were diagnosed until about 1986 when my son collapsed under the strain of it all. His daughter has autism as well. I ran a social work team and was also often in court for defending the rights of all sorts of vulnerable folk in that role, not to mention the horrors of arguing adoption in court against abusive parents and all sorts of sexual predilections of abuse. I have seen the outcomes of all sorts of horrors that there are to see in families including holding the hand of a dying person because there was no one else. Autism is a two edged sword of compartmentalism in order to survive - or die fighting it. It’s like living in a black hole with the lights switched off looking for a black cat. So I studied my way to survive and lived a comparatively useful life. So yes, I’m judgemental but there is no comfort in knowing that nothing can be done other to understand the issues of life, and that requires sound judgement. The responsibility it to be correct. Then judgement is a fine thing because it enables understanding. It’s either right or wrong in 99% of cases, and when you’re wrong, you fix it. Is it though, being judgemental, if one simply states fact? Fact is not judgement, but the measure by which people establish truth. That is why discussion is useful.

Of course not all autistic people are trans, but, most trans people are autistic. I don't know you, but, I really doubt you are severely autistic, somewhere on the spectrum, probably, but not severe.

The autism spectrum among transgender youth: default mode functional connectivity - PMC

The common intersection of autism and transgender identities has been described in clinical and community contexts. This study investigates autism-related neurophenotypes among transgender youth. Forty-five transgender youth, evenly balanced across ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Being trans

Ambitious about Autism is the national charity for children and young people with autism. We provide services, raise awareness and understanding, and campaign for change. Through TreeHouse School, The Rise School and Ambitious College we offer specialist education and support.

www.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I hear the point about not agreeing with the lifestyle, but I’m struggling with how we apply that. If we say we 'love the person' but then refuse to sit at a table with them, help them when they're down, or have any association with them, does that love actually mean anything in the real world?


To me, mercy and empathy aren't 'endorsements'—they are actions. If we distance ourselves completely, we aren't 'loving' them; we’re just ignoring them. History and faith are full of examples where the most impactful thing a person could do was associate with those they disagreed with.


If we hold to the tradition of 'loving the sinner' but cut off the relationship, we’re creating a double standard. True mercy requires being present in people's lives, not just watching from the sidelines.

You are absolutely right. The time allowed us to this day is one of refinement and ultimately of making an example in expression of the attributes of the spirit. I may not be absolutely correct in my thinking but the “not eating with…..” refers to those whom are committed to wrongdoing as with those at Sodom. In other words, whatever the sin, that is the chosen and committed proclivity.

Poverty of spirit requires understanding, insight, sympathy, (the understanding of values) if it is to illustrate and reflect the attitude of the one whom is unable to reason upon the scriptures. If we look at the example of watchtower - and I experienced this a couple of months ago personally when they called, - they are largely unable to argue the scripture because to the same extent, they miss its message, just as you point out. They feel they “are not getting anywhere”. And that is signal to the fact that they have not the depth of understanding in scripture that moves their heart to reach into the soul of the “sinner”. Anyone can quote scripture, but few feel it or sense it’s inclusive message to all regardless of background. One cannot touch the heart with the message if they shun because of their lack of insight into the motivation of the ones lost in the morass of confusion in this world. Christ died as the primary example of forgiveness. So we go to the understanding “home” of these ones to speak with them there to understand their thinking. Then one can argue morals and mind-set. Christ did the same with the woman at the well, reciting her marital and personal life with understanding and explanation of her inner feelings: and what was the result?

 

[dgibson969]

You are absolutely right. The time allowed us to this day is one of refinement and ultimately of making an example in expression of the attributes of the spirit. I may not be absolutely correct in my thinking but the “not eating with…..” refers to those whom are committed to wrongdoing as with those at Sodom. In other words, whatever the sin, that is the chosen and committed proclivity.

Poverty of spirit requires understanding, insight, sympathy, (the understanding of values) if it is to illustrate and reflect the attitude of the one whom is unable to reason upon the scriptures. If we look at the example of watchtower - and I experienced this a couple of months ago personally when they called, - they are largely unable to argue the scripture because to the same extent, they miss its message, just as you point out. They feel they “are not getting anywhere”. And that is signal to the fact that they have not the depth of understanding in scripture that moves their heart to reach into the soul of the “sinner”. Anyone can quote scripture, but few feel it or sense it’s inclusive message to all regardless of background. One cannot touch the heart with the message if they shun because of their lack of insight into the motivation of the ones lost in the morass of confusion in this world. Christ died as the primary example of forgiveness. So we go to the understanding “home” of these ones to speak with them there to understand their thinking. Then one can argue morals and mind-set. Christ did the same with the woman at the well, reciting her marital and personal life with understanding and explanation of her inner feelings: and what was the result?

He said, he didn't blame her! He must have known it was hard for her to be alone. Right?

 

[dgibson969]

Of course not all autistic people are trans, but, most trans people are autistic. I don't know you, but, I really doubt you are severely autistic, somewhere on the spectrum, probably, but not severe.

The autism spectrum among transgender youth: default mode functional connectivity - PMC

The common intersection of autism and transgender identities has been described in clinical and community contexts. This study investigates autism-related neurophenotypes among transgender youth. Forty-five transgender youth, evenly balanced across ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Being trans

Ambitious about Autism is the national charity for children and young people with autism. We provide services, raise awareness and understanding, and campaign for change. Through TreeHouse School, The Rise School and Ambitious College we offer specialist education and support.

www.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk

Aren't we all? Somewhere in between the Autism Spectrum.

 

[dgibson969]

So you're saying that some of the annointed may have been practising homosexuals? If so, that's a good thing, because it means they totally understand other ex homosexuals. That should give you a lot of encouragement to continue down the "narrow" path

I sense a bit of sarcasim

 

[dgibson969]

That's up to each individual to work that out for themselves from their study of God's word..

That's a loaded answer.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

He said, he didn't blame her! He must have known it was hard for her to be alone. Right?

Did that woman change her lifestyle after her encounter with Jesus?

 

[dgibson969]

As far as I'm aware from my studies of the Bible, Jehovah welcomes everyone anyone to take advantage of the ransom sacrifice, our work is to make this and Jehovah's name known to as many people as we can and to help where we can. Ultimately no-one else is responsible for another person's faith or eternal life, once we have enough knowledge we have to actually stand on our own 2 feet..

So, you're saying, Jehovah God commissioned his name to be known? Who exactly did he appear to, and give this commission work to be carried out? And why didn't he provide his Holy Spirit directly to help? It seems to me, that men, good men decided for themselves to start a preaching campaign, to make it known among the nations. All the while setting up a fortress for Satan to rule over them! I the Robert has essentially pointed that out.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

That's a loaded answer.

Loaded with WHAT exactly? It's just a statement of fact! I've been in congregations before where we we're all studying the same book yet coming up with different conclusions, well I ASSUME we came to different conclusions due to the fact that many of them were happy to have "affairs" with others husbands and wives, happy to steal (unnecessarily) happy to tell blatant lies about others, happy to join in with all the pagan festivals etc etc I definitely came to different conclusions than they did, but we're all free to react to the Bible's teachings however we want to, because Jehovah doesn't force anyone to listen to him, nor does he force us to obey him, he gives us freedom of choice..

 

[dgibson969]

As far as I'm aware, no-one is shutting anyone out of anywhere!

Really? Well then, why don't we put a big ole rainbow flag on the kingdom halls and say all is welcome? Because it has been shown to not be true, that's why. The policing, the "you can't sit together", the "one of you has to move out"! Are you deliberately blind to all this, because you let the elders in the congregation handle matters in judicial committees?

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

So, you're saying, Jehovah God commissioned his name to be known? Who exactly did he appear to, and give this commission work to be carried out? And why didn't he provide his Holy Spirit directly to help? It seems to me, that men, good men decided for themselves to start a preaching campaign, to make it known among the nations. All the while setting up a fortress for Satan to rule over them! I the Robert has essentially pointed that out.

Uhh??? I can't even understand this comment..

 

[Spoilmerotten]

dGibson, I don’t know your situation. You might really love Jehovah but have some difficulty no one knows about. There was a sister in our Kingdom Hall back in the 80’s who was having to raise her grandson who was left behind by his mom at 2 yrs.old. She played the piano at the meetings when we sang kingdom melodies. Her little grandson was born with a uterus and the male genitalia. I remember her breaking down a sobbing for prayer because she was going to have to pick the sex of the child. Can you imagine the strain and heartbreak and no telling what that child went through after that? Did she pick right? That is a very unusual circumstance but like Joseph Stephen said, there is just so much the government has done to the air and the water , the plastics etc. etc. But still God has laws. Life and death laws. Pick who will you serve. There are other defects that other lovers of truth have. No arms, legs, bad heart, disease and so on. But we all have something that we need that xtra help from Jehovah for. Some weakness that is to much to get control of. Jesus said,”Throw your burdens upon me. And I will give you rest.” Why not just get on your knees and pray. Not just any prayer, asked Jehovah to take this hardship away from you. Tell him it’s to much. You don’t know if it’s coming from Satan or if your weak and you need more faith, your being tempted or you just don’t know what you need but beg him to take it away from you and take that thorn out of your side that keeps slapping you down everyday! Ask for the Holy Spirit to intercede for you in prayer if you don’t know what to say. Ask him to search your heart your kidneys your mind and make them clean so you can stand approved before him. If you persist and don’t let up, you will come out victorious! But if you don’t go to him and ask for help and this keeps eating away at your being, Satan might win and Jehovah will let it happen. We have to fight for our relationship with him. We’re at the point where Noah was when the animals started boarding the ark. The rain could start misting at any second. This is not the time to not fight for our lives. I believe it was Jesus who said,”I wish you were hot or cold. But because you’re not hot or cold and are lukewarm, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” That is because we can’t give Jehovah half-hearted service to him. We need to be all in or all out. “The one who is faithful in what is least will be faithful in what is much.” The Beast System may take our lives. But we have to lean on Jehovah for everything and I mean everything. What’s coming, will make what we’re going through now, seem like nothing then. So get your sword and start sharpening it. The Bible. And get the rest of your armor and start putting it on. Then you’ll be able to quench those burning missles that Satan is throwing at you. Jehovah’s laws must be kept in his Kingdom and if we can’t follow his laws now, we won’t be allowed in. He will heal everyone of their calamities once on the other side. Don’t let Satan deceive you. Close all open doors to him. For example, be careful what you look at or watch. There is no middle ground. I’m here if you need me and I know from some of these other comments you will have help. We need to all pray for him.

 

[dgibson969]

I've spent my whole life and energy helping other people, mostly people who ended up not appreciating it, or throwing it back in my face. But it doesn't matter, because I did/do these things for Jehovah. But when it comes to very close association I'll admit that I've got pickier and pickier as I've got older, for protection of my own sanity and I don't get the feeling that Jehovah doesn't agree with me

The problem I see, is that the help is always connected to, "will you study with me" and become a JW associated with the WTBTS. Then once they find out how the WTBTS breaks up families over religion and its self-protectionism. They are not very appreciative.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Really? Well then, why don't we put a big ole rainbow flag on the kingdom halls and say all is welcome? Because it has been shown to not be true, that's why. The policing, the "you can't sit together", the "one of you has to move out"! Are you deliberately blind to all this, because you let the elders in the congregation handle matters in judicial committees?

Now you're just coming across as one of those very angry exjws on Reddit etc. And there was me thinking you were looking for some spiritual "help"!!
What you've said here is not true at all, I've been in congregations where there's been ex practising homosexual brothers and they were just as welcome in the congregation. I've also been in congregations where brothers have "changed" to practising homosexuality, didn't want to stop and preferred to be disfellowshipped instead! What exactly is scripturally wrong with that?
Anyway, the way things are going in the world, one day, no religion at all will be allowed to go along with any of Jehovah's standards, because that is exactly what Satan is trying to achieve and anyone who can't see that must either be in denial or in a coma!!

 

[dgibson969]

Uhh??? I can't even understand this comment..

Essentially, the work was started by Satan, more than Jehovah God. When Jehovah God or Jesus starts something this big. They always give direct instructions, and help with the job. Just looking at numbers, and saying he is blessing the work, is not a sound Barometer to his Holy Spirit. If he was truly running things, we would all be speaking languages we never knew or studied. And we would have the correct pronunciation of his great and Holy Name! Not one coined by a magic practicing Catholic Priest. As I hear was the case.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Essentially, the work was started by Satan, more than Jehovah God. When Jehovah God or Jesus starts something this big. They always give direct instructions, and help with the job. Just looking at numbers, and saying he is blessing the work, is not a sound Barometer to his Holy Spirit. If he was truly running things, we would all be speaking languages we never knew or studied. And we would have the correct pronunciation of his great and Holy Name! Not one coined by a magic practicing Catholic Priest. As I hear was the case.

No-one would ever be able to convince me that Satan is behind the preaching work so we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

The problem I see, is that the help is always connected to, "will you study with me" and become a JW associated with the WTBTS. Then once they find out how the WTBTS breaks up families over religion and its self-protectionism. They are not very appreciative.

Not at all! I've never, ever helped anyone with the intention of expecting them to study the Bible with me!! More often than not they don't even know I'm a jw! Usually they're not appreciative due to their lack of appreciation.. it annoys me sometimes, but lots of things "annoy" me