When is the end of Christianity?

Carl

Carl

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I've been working on a project to define my beliefs, so that when asked what I believe in, I'll have a coherent answer. I'm also working out a way to prove my sons' Catholic beliefs are false, without causing an argument.

Catholics believe we're in the Millennial Kingdom, which means the seals have all been opened, and Armageddon has already occurred. They believe we're just waiting for Revelation 20:7-10 "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

This is obviously wrong, but I need a way to prove it using their Bible! I've argued that the weeds are removed from the Kingdom before Armageddon, and are NOT replanted, which means there could be no false apostles in the Kingdom/Paradise. The counter argument is that Satan has been let loose from the Abyss, and that's why there have been false apostles. So, I just thought of another argument... something Robert has said in the past, but I can't quite find it. He said that Christianity is over once the House of God is judged. Basically, the disciple making is ended once the 144,000 have all been sealed. Also, the good news of the Kingdom must be preached in the entire inhabited world before the end will come. One could argue that the good news also needs to be preached in Paradise, but we all know there isn't going to be any disciple making in paradise... there is only one group of 144,000.

Could someone help me with any relevant papers, comments or videos by Robert which can help me in this regard. I plan to use the Catholic Bible once I have all the relevant verses to back me up.

Thanks!
 
Carl said:
I've been working on a project to define my beliefs, so that when asked what I believe in, I'll have a coherent answer. I'm also working out a way to prove my sons' Catholic beliefs are false, without causing an argument.

Catholics believe we're in the Millennial Kingdom, which means the seals have all been opened, and Armageddon has already occurred. They believe we're just waiting for Revelation 20:7-10 "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

This is obviously wrong, but I need a way to prove it using their Bible! I've argued that the weeds are removed from the Kingdom before Armageddon, and are NOT replanted, which means there could be no false apostles in the Kingdom/Paradise. The counter argument is that Satan has been let loose from the Abyss, and that's why there have been false apostles. So, I just thought of another argument... something Robert has said in the past, but I can't quite find it. He said that Christianity is over once the House of God is judged. Basically, the disciple making is ended once the 144,000 have all been sealed. Also, the good news of the Kingdom must be preached in the entire inhabited world before the end will come. One could argue that the good news also needs to be preached in Paradise, but we all know there isn't going to be any disciple making in paradise... there is only one group of 144,000.

Could someone help me with any relevant papers, comments or videos by Robert which can help me in this regard. I plan to use the Catholic Bible once I have all the relevant verses to back me up.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
e-watchman.com

When will the current preaching work end?

When will the current preaching work end? That is a question from a reader published in the August 2025 Watchtower. The answer is considered to be “new light,” so-called, as the Watchtower explains:Jesus stated: “This good news of the
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
e-watchman.com

Will Christianity Survive the End of the World?

e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
Hope these help Carl in your quest.
 
It's becoming increasingly obvious that the anointing can only happen to people who understand the Truth about the Kingdom and Jehovah's Sacred Secret. There may be some last hour anointed coming from Christendom, but the only way this can happen is if they accept the Truth DURING the GT, before the final sealing. This will prove difficult due to the shear panic most people will feel. Most will cling to their previously held religious beliefs. I believe that once the full 144,000 are sealed, then the GC will be assembled during the beginning half of the HOT... i.e. the 1/2 hour spoken of at Revelation 8:1. Therefore, I'm putting these thoughts into my son's heads now, so that once the GT begins, they'll be more open to believing what I've been telling them.

All opinions and scriptural references are welcome!
 
Carl said:
There may be some last hour anointed coming from Christendom, but the only way this can happen is if they accept the Truth DURING the GT, before the final sealing.
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The dragnet scripture refers to the Parable of the Dragnet, found in Matthew 13:47-52, where Jesus compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a dragnet thrown into the sea, catching all sorts of fish. When the net is full, it is drawn ashore, and the good fish are kept while the bad fish are thrown away. Jesus explains that this symbolizes the end of the age, when angels will separate the wicked from the righteous, with the wicked being thrown into a fiery furnace.
To me Carl the Dragnet, the Kingdom of God is the preaching work done by Jehovah's organisation. The culmination of the net is those who accepted the Kingdom message are separated as sheep from the goats. I don't believe there is any outside that educational arrangement that could ever be anointed. Jehovah continue to bless your understanding brother Carl.
 
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MickHewitt said:
The dragnet scripture refers to the Parable of the Dragnet, found in Matthew 13:47-52, where Jesus compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a dragnet thrown into the sea, catching all sorts of fish. When the net is full, it is drawn ashore, and the good fish are kept while the bad fish are thrown away. Jesus explains that this symbolizes the end of the age, when angels will separate the wicked from the righteous, with the wicked being thrown into a fiery furnace.
To me Carl the Dragnet, the Kingdom of God is the preaching work done by Jehovah's organisation. The culmination of the net is those who accepted the Kingdom message are separated as sheep and the goats. I don't believe there is any outside that educational arrangement that could ever be anointed. Jehovah continue to bless your understanding brother Carl.
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Christ used a parable about building a house on a rock versus the sand to stand when the storm arises. Matt7:24-27.......Psalm 127:1 say's 'Unless Jehovah builds the house it will fall' My point is when being introduced to Jehovah by His people we start to build that house that will stand against the impending storm or GT with Jehovah's help.....No one else but His witnesses are praying and building with His help all the others are praying to the LORD or Jesus. Our relationship with Jehovah is the defining test........This is what I believe Carl. As soon as Jehovah knocked our door our response and love of His Name has been recorded. This we all here are witness of....Yes?
 
MickHewitt said:
And Carl it's Jehovah God that dries those tears in Rev21:4.....That will be a healing comfort. My prayers are with you brother I hope you can reach your loved ones in time.
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It's tough right now, but once things start to get bad, I have hope they'll open their eyes. Right now, I look like a "chicken little," but soon all my warnings will make sense.
 
Carl said:
It's tough right now, but once things start to get bad, I have hope they'll open their eyes. Right now, I look like a "chicken little," but soon all my warnings will make sense.
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Hopefully Carl when the earth starts to rock as Jehovah promised “I will shake all the nations, and the precious things of all the nations will come in.”—HAG. 2:7. Your loved ones will out of fear call on Jehovah as you have encouraged them to do? Or hopefully as they see this world decaying turn to you for spiritual help. Carl they could not have a better shepherd than yourself brother.
 
To me, one of the biggest issues we have is knowing where to start. It is the most basic understanding that must be grasped before we can understand deep things. Therefore I think where you need to start is just that, at the beginning. Christendom, misses the whole point of Jehovah creating the earth and the physical Universe. So, I would ask your sons, what would have happened if Adam and Eve had not sinned? Then ask, what was Jesus buying back? And along with that question goes this question; what did Adam and Eve lose? They did not loose the "right" to go to heaven, they lost their "right" to live on earth. So even if you believe they went to hell, it still doesn't answer how, Jesus was the "second Adam", unless Jesus was buying back the right for mankind to live forever on earth. Until you understand that most simple of this concept, you cannot and will not understand what Jehovah has been doing these 6,000 plus years, or allowing to happen. Once you understand that, then everything else the Bible teaches starts to fall into place. Jehovah's Witnesses were NOT "making disciples" based on their 1914 doctrine, it was their teaching of basic Bible truths that woke people up, but it is the 1914 doctrine that keeps them from fully waking up!

In any case it all starts with God's purpose for the earth, and the fact that Christendom doesn't think there is one, Jehovah is just going to give up and destroy the earth.
 
I had no idea Catholics believed Armageddon had already occurred. That's crazier than the Watchtower's 1914 delusion. When exactly did this world-killing event take place? When did God feed the vultures of heaven with the flesh of kings and military men, the small and the great? We need exact dates and places. Specifics, Bob :rolleyes:
 
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Watchman said:
I had no idea Catholics believed Armageddon had already occurred. That's crazier than the Watchtower's 1914 delusion. When exactly did this world-killing event take place? When did God feed the vultures of heaven with the flesh of kings and military men, the small and the great? We need exact dates and places. Specifics, Bob :rolleyes:
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Neither did I and I was raised Catholic, plus all my family (not my children) are RC. This sounds more like someone's personal teaching aside from the Churches doctrins.
 
Watchman said:
I had no idea Catholics believed Armageddon had already occurred. That's crazier than the Watchtower's 1914 delusion. When exactly did this world-killing event take place? When did God feed the vultures of heaven with the flesh of kings and military men, the small and the great? We need exact dates and places. Specifics, Bob :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
When it comes to prophesy, most Catholics are in the dark as much as the average JW. My eldest son is very zealous about his beliefs, digging deep into all things Catholic. They believe we are in the Kingdom now, but have no clue that means Armageddon must have already occurred. As far as I can tell, there is a lot of twisting of scriptures going on… even worse than the WT. They don’t even believe Adam & Eve were real people, but more of an allegory.
 
Shiloh said:
Neither did I and I was raised Catholic, plus all my family (not my children) are RC. This sounds more like someone's personal teaching aside from the Churches doctrins.
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I have no idea what they teach, I can only go by what my son tells me. Like I said, he is a prolific reader of all things pertaining to his faith. The kid could have a PhD in Catholic history by now!
 
Jeremiah mentions a remnant from Moab. Perhaps he was referring to some people from Christendom who will be part of the great crowd or the anointed. Who knows.
Carl said:
It's becoming increasingly obvious that the anointing can only happen to people who understand the Truth about the Kingdom and Jehovah's Sacred Secret. There may be some last hour anointed coming from Christendom, but the only way this can happen is if they accept the Truth DURING the GT, before the final sealing. This will prove difficult due to the shear panic most people will feel. Most will cling to their previously held religious beliefs. I believe that once the full 144,000 are sealed, then the GC will be assembled during the beginning half of the HOT... i.e. the 1/2 hour spoken of at Revelation 8:1. Therefore, I'm putting these thoughts into my son's heads now, so that once the GT begins, they'll be more open to believing what I've been telling them.

All opinions and scriptural references are welcome!
Click to expand...
 
Carl said:
I've been working on a project to define my beliefs, so that when asked what I believe in, I'll have a coherent answer. I'm also working out a way to prove my sons' Catholic beliefs are false, without causing an argument.

Catholics believe we're in the Millennial Kingdom, which means the seals have all been opened, and Armageddon has already occurred. They believe we're just waiting for Revelation 20:7-10 "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

This is obviously wrong, but I need a way to prove it using their Bible! I've argued that the weeds are removed from the Kingdom before Armageddon, and are NOT replanted, which means there could be no false apostles in the Kingdom/Paradise. The counter argument is that Satan has been let loose from the Abyss, and that's why there have been false apostles. So, I just thought of another argument... something Robert has said in the past, but I can't quite find it. He said that Christianity is over once the House of God is judged. Basically, the disciple making is ended once the 144,000 have all been sealed. Also, the good news of the Kingdom must be preached in the entire inhabited world before the end will come. One could argue that the good news also needs to be preached in Paradise, but we all know there isn't going to be any disciple making in paradise... there is only one group of 144,000.

Could someone help me with any relevant papers, comments or videos by Robert which can help me in this regard. I plan to use the Catholic Bible once I have all the relevant verses to back me up.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Christianity ends on 3rd October 2025 at 1.00pm. Let me know if I can help with anything else.
 
Carl said:
It's becoming increasingly obvious that the anointing can only happen to people who understand the Truth about the Kingdom and Jehovah's Sacred Secret. There may be some last hour anointed coming from Christendom, but the only way this can happen is if they accept the Truth DURING the GT, before the final sealing. This will prove difficult due to the shear panic most people will feel. Most will cling to their previously held religious beliefs. I believe that once the full 144,000 are sealed, then the GC will be assembled during the beginning half of the HOT... i.e. the 1/2 hour spoken of at Revelation 8:1. Therefore, I'm putting these thoughts into my son's heads now, so that once the GT begins, they'll be more open to believing what I've been telling them.

All opinions and scriptural references are welcome!
Click to expand...
I’m not sure we should impose limitations upon whom Jehovah would choose to anoint. There is so much more to spirituality than knowledge of the kingdom. If we ask ourselves what the point is of anointing, then we see that the responsibility of “ruling” with Christ is one of love, and understanding its meaning in tandem with the attributes of the spirit to which it adheres and indeed, is born from.

Which of us can possibly understand the kingdom? The gift of understanding had to be given to the apostles for them to realise the holistic meaning of the kingdom. But on what grounds then, was that gift given and how then could that understanding now only be given to those that already know, just a fraction of what is to come? Is it not rather the qualities of faith that they have and the generosity of heart that moves the spirit to welcome that one to rule with Christ? The apostles were not chosen for their knowledge, but for whom they were then, at that time. Thus it is potential based upon the honest heart condition of that one. Even Judas had a choice, as do we all. Presumably, that is why we are tested a final time. Motive is key - and what drives motive? It is so mercurial that it has to be tested as to its base - and that base can only be love. Knowledge is not enough as Judas illustrated. Love is intimate with the soul and its food is righteousness.
 
LuisMerino9412 said:
Jeremiah mentions a remnant from Moab. Perhaps he was referring to some people from Christendom who will be part of the great crowd or the anointed. Who knows.
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Nobody knows how people will respond up until the remnant is sealed. I suspect that there may be some late workers added from outside the WT.
 
Carl said:
I'm 99% in agreement with you but I leave a 1% chance that the parable of the day worker opens the door to people outside of those who know the Truth currently. I'm fine with being wrong.
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Many instances of non Jews throwing their lot in with Gods people. I’m leaning towards a great crowd affiliation for those rather then becoming part of the sealed brothers of Jesus group as Mick intimates.
I subscribe to the notion (for what it’s worth) that during the last part of the great tribulation (prior to the actual start of the eighth king’s 42 month long rule), when everyone on earth realizes that judgment from the one seated on the throne has arrived ie everyone seeing the sign of the son of man, that Jehovah allows a brief window for people to make their decision to submit either to Him or to more human rule which many will be clamoring for.
I personally can’t see any reason for Jehovah allowing any further salvation opportunities after that point.
If anyone still wants the “mountains to fall on them and protect them from the one seated on the throne, after witnessing the government created horrors that caused a near extinction level event, then such ones could never reform and be fully deserving of the eternal cutting off.
Also any who may not want to ally with more failed human government but at the same time aren’t moved to side with Christs rule either, are worthy of the same fate. Hopefully your loved ones will not be in either of those two categories.
My two cents.
 
kenmuldoon55 said:
Many instances of non Jews throwing their lot in with Gods people. I’m leaning towards a great crowd affiliation for those rather then becoming part of the sealed brothers of Jesus group as Mick intimates.
I subscribe to the notion (for what it’s worth) that during the last part of the great tribulation (prior to the actual start of the eighth king’s 42 month long rule), when everyone on earth realizes that judgment from the one seated on the throne has arrived ie everyone seeing the sign of the son of man, that Jehovah allows a brief window for people to make their decision to submit either to Him or to more human rule which many will be clamoring for.
I personally can’t see any reason for Jehovah allowing any further salvation opportunities after that point.
If anyone still wants the “mountains to fall on them and protect them from the one seated on the throne, after witnessing the government created horrors that caused a near extinction level event, then such ones could never reform and be fully deserving of the eternal cutting off.
Also any who may not want to ally with more failed human government but at the same time aren’t moved to side with Christs rule either, are worthy of the same fate. Hopefully your loved ones will not be in either of those two categories.
My two cents.
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Yes. And what will seal their destiny is that they will accept the mark of the beast.
 
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