Which method of execution is accurate and true? A or B?

[BroRando]

There are two Greek words in question: stauros (stow-rose or stav-rose) and xylon (ksee-lon). Peter seems to favor xylon. For example, in his speech recorded at Acts 5:30 Peter says, "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a [xylon]." Some bibles translate that as "cross" and some as "tree." Which is correct?

Genesis 40:19 talks about the execution of an Egyptian, his body being 'hung on a tree.' When the passage was translated into the Greek Septuagint version, the translators used a form of the word xylon. Jerome's Latin Vulgate says the baker was to be hanged on a cruce, a form of the word crux. In English, some bibles say the baker was hanged on a cross, but the primary definition of crux is tree, not cross. Further, there is no historical evidence that the Egyptians crucified people, There is, however, historical evidence that they displayed the dead bodies of people with whom they were displeased by hanging them on trees or impaling them on poles.

Ambiguity of terms used​

The Koine Greek terms used in the New Testament of the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure. Scholars have long known that the Greek word stauros and the Latin word crux did not uniquely mean a cross.
The magic virtues attributed to the so-called sign of the cross, the worship bestowed on it, never came from such a source. The same sign of the cross that Rome now worships was used in the Babylonian Mysteries, was applied by Paganism to the same magic purposes, was honoured with the same honours. That which is now called the Christian cross was originally no Christian emblem at all, but was the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans and Egyptians--the true original form of the letter T--the initial of the name of Tammuz--which, in Hebrew, radically the same as ancient Chaldee, was found on coins. That mystic Tau was marked in baptism on the foreheads of those initiated in the Mysteries, * and was used in every variety of way as a most sacred symbol.

 

[Ana]

Que pensará Jehová de los que crean una temática minuciosa de la forma detallada en la que torturaron a su hijo. Sólo pienso...

 

[BroRando]

Probably Go to the Memorial to honor and show appreciation to the Son for the sacrifice he made and never forget?

 

[Nomex]

@BroRando Your picture above to the far right, is a complete lie. That is NOT a person who was "nailed" to a stake. In fact it is not even a historical depiction of anything but rather, a depiction from Greek mythology of a Satyr who was tied to a tree and then skinned alive. This is the problem with WT propaganda. Do you think such lies bring honor to Jehovah?

Category:Marsyas hanging (Louvre, Ma 542) - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Category:Marsyas hanging (Louvre, Ma 542) - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

And as you can see in the close up photos from your picture above, there are no nails in the feet or hands, not to mention there is a plaque in the Louvre that explains exactly what that statue is...I wonder why that part is always left out?

Category:Marsyas hanging (Louvre, Ma 542) - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Category:Marsyas hanging (Louvre, Ma 542) - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[BroRando]

@BroRando Your picture above to the far right, is a complete lie. That is NOT a person who was "nailed" to a stake. In fact it is not even a historical depiction of anything but rather, a depiction from Greek mythology of a Satyr who was tied to a tree and then skinned alive. This is the problem with WT propaganda. Do you think such lies bring honor to Jehovah?

Isn't Hades and Hell part of Greek Mythology?

• “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13)

The Greek Hades/Hell is not so eternal now is it? Greek mythology is taught by trinitarians who deny "Jesus is 'the Christ the Son of the living God.' (Matthew 16:16) Trinitarians worship what? The cross. They also claim God became flesh.

• For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. (2 John 1:7)

 

[Jahrule]

Isn't Hades and Hell part of Greek Mythology?

• “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13)

The Greek Hades/Hell is not so eternal now is it? Greek mythology is taught by trinitarians who deny "Jesus is 'the Christ the Son of the living God.' (Matthew 16:16) Trinitarians worship what? The cross. They also claim God became flesh.

• For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. (2 John 1:7)

Sorry. I know I'm not Nomex, but I don't understand the point here. None of us believe in a literal hell or in the trinity.

 

[Nomex]

Isn't Hades and Hell part of Greek Mythology?

Nice straw-man argument...and another completely irrelevant point.

The fact remains WT and many R&F use the picture you put above, in some desperate attempt to "prove" Jesus didn't die on a cross, (something which once again.

is completely irrelevant and something no one could ever prove), but regardless is NOT ANY depiction of a crucifixion, or someone nailed to a stake, but rather something completely unrelated in any way whatsoever, therefore a LIE! Greek mythology has nothing to do with it besides the context of what that image is of. It is a lie of omission something, WT are masters of.

And since you didn't answer my question, I'll ask it again, do you think such lies bring honor to our God?

Trinitarians worship what? The cross.

Yeah, and who do Jehovah's Witnesses worship? The Governing Body!

3 Let no one lead you astray* in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.g 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.

2 Thes. 2:3,4

 

[Nomex]

Sorry. I know I'm not Nomex, but I don't understand the point here. None of us believe in a literal hell or in the trinity.

It's called a "straw-man argument."

 

[Jahrule]

It's called a "straw-man argument."

I was thinking more of a red herring.

 

[Nomex]

I was thinking more of a red herring.

That too...they mean almost the same thing.

 

[BroRando]

@BroRando Your picture above to the far right, is a complete lie. That is NOT a person who was "nailed" to a stake. In fact it is not even a historical depiction of anything but rather, a depiction from Greek mythology of a Satyr who was tied to a tree and then skinned alive. This is the problem with WT propaganda. Do you think such lies bring honor to Jehovah?

Category:Marsyas hanging (Louvre, Ma 542) - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Scholars have long known that the Greek word stauros and the Latin word crux did not uniquely mean a cross.

The magic virtues attributed to the so-called sign of the cross, the worship bestowed on it, never came from such a source. The same sign of the cross that Rome now worships was used in the Babylonian Mysteries, was applied by Paganism to the same magic purposes, was honoured with the same honours.

do you think such lies bring honor to our God?

 

[Nomex]

LOL, wow, quotes without any context and no links, it must be true.

The funniest thing is, I ask you a question about a picture you posted, that seems to depicted a crucifixion, stake or otherwise, which again, you did not put the link to the source of the picture, and irony of ironies, that's exactly how I first came across that picture, because it's going around of JW social media pages, again with NO context. But there was just enough for me to look it up and find it. So I then post all the actual information, completely proving that the context in which you posted the picture is a complete and utter lie, but you cannot and will no answer the question, because you don't have one.

And then you continue to do the very thing that has destroyed any hint of credibility you may have had.

And the most ironic part of this, is all you had to do is say, "Oh I didn't know that about that picture, I won't post it again", and that would have been the end of it, and we would all know you were an honest hearted person...but you are not, you did the opposite and like most brain washed R&F, your arrogance prevents you from seeing truth if it goes against your installed programing from WT!

 

[Nomex]

@BroRando Here's the thing that really pisses me off. The only issue that matters with regards to the cross, is whether you use it in your worship, and therefore make it into an Idol, exactly like the JW.org pin all the brothers now where. It is no different other than the cross has been traditionally used by pagans. But rather then focus on "the more important things" you get into the weeds about something nobody can ever prove, and your above quote, which I will now PROVE you took out of context, says EXACTLY what I have been saying.

Here is the paragraph you took the above quote from and I unlike you will also provide the link....

Ambiguity of terms used​

The Koine Greek terms used in the New Testament of the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure. Scholars have long known that the Greek word stauros and the Latin word crux did not uniquely mean a cross. They have known too that the words had that meaning also, and so have not considered necessarily incorrect the traditional picture of a cross with transom.


In the paragraph directly above it says this...and this is the point....

In 2011 Gunnar Samuelsson concluded that there is not enough evidence in pre-Christian ancient texts or in the New Testament writings themselves to resolve the ambiguity of the terms referring to the instrument on which Jesus was executed.[1] On the other hand David W Chapman argues that to take one single Greek word and conclude that it has one universal and unchanging meaning like the word stauros “is a common word study fallacy in some populist literature.


Link to the article...which I had to find myself, and like I said, the internet makes it impossible fro WT to get away with their lies of omission as long as people are willing to "prove to themselves the things written"...and not just have your beliefs dictated to you.

Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here's how deceptive this really is...the sentence prior to the sentence you quoted says this...

"Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure."

In other words it is impossible to prove one way or the other what Jesus died on!

 

[BroRando]

@BroRando Here's the thing that really pisses me off. The only issue that matters with regards to the cross, is whether you use it in your worship, and therefore make it into an Idol, exactly like the JW.org pin all the brothers now where. It is no different other than the cross has been traditionally used by pagans. But rather then focus on "the more important things" you get into the weeds about something nobody can ever prove, and your above quote, which I will now PROVE you took out of context, says EXACTLY what I have been saying.

Here is the paragraph you took the above quote from and I unlike you will also provide the link....

Ambiguity of terms used​

The Koine Greek terms used in the New Testament of the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure. Scholars have long known that the Greek word stauros and the Latin word crux did not uniquely mean a cross. They have known too that the words had that meaning also, and so have not considered necessarily incorrect the traditional picture of a cross with transom.


In the paragraph directly above it says this...and this is the point....

In 2011 Gunnar Samuelsson concluded that there is not enough evidence in pre-Christian ancient texts or in the New Testament writings themselves to resolve the ambiguity of the terms referring to the instrument on which Jesus was executed.[1] On the other hand David W Chapman argues that to take one single Greek word and conclude that it has one universal and unchanging meaning like the word stauros “is a common word study fallacy in some populist literature.


Link to the article...which I had to find myself, and like I said, the internet makes it impossible fro WT to get away with their lies of omission as long as people are willing to "prove to themselves the things written"...and not just have your beliefs dictated to you.

Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here's how deceptive this really is...the sentence prior to the sentence you quoted says this...

"Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure."

In other words it is impossible to prove one way or the other what Jesus died on!

1 Kings 18:19​

And now summon all Israel to me at Mount Carʹmel, as well as the 450 prophets of Baʹal and the 400 prophets of the sacred pole, who are eating at the table of Jezʹe·bel.”

​

2 Chronicles 24:18​

They abandoned the house of Jehovah the God of their forefathers and began serving the sacred poles and the idols, so that God’s anger came against Judah and Jerusalem because of their guilt.

You make the claim it was irrelevant and yet no one can know. Jehovah thinks its relevant. Argue away and make your plea known to him that it does not matter in which method his son was to die. Judaism was steeped in pagan worship. That was my point.

 

[Nomex]

Judaism was steeped in pagan worship. That was my point.

When I was 10 years old, I used to think that was a valid point. But I am no longer 10 years old, and I can reason on my own, and I do not need or ALLOW someone to tell me what to think.

Jehovah thinks its relevant.

This is my favorite yet patently absurd argument. And since I am no longer 10 years old, and I have given this point considerable thought...about half a century, I no longer reason based on "milk."

But this is what you and WT assert...Jehovah allowed his only begotten son, to take the form of a man, lowering himself, the second most powerful entity in the Universe, to a "mans form", then allowed him to be falsely accused of blasphemy and convicted I might add, the most serious charge a Jew could be charged with, in fact on the level of sinning against God's Holy spirit, and IN FACT, that is what Jesus was praying about to have "this cup removed"

...then he was turned over to the pagan Romans. stripped, brutally tortured by being scourged, a method so horrific the whip used would actually tear the flesh OFF the BONE, so he had the flesh from his rib cage ripped off the bone, both from his front and back, then killed in one of the most brutal ways man can conceive of, yet you want people to believe Jehovah said, "nope this is where I draw the line, I won't allow Jesus to die on a cross." Not to mention the fact that the very beings that those pagans worshiped, Satan and his Demons were the ones behind killing Jesus, and Jehovah allowed them to have this authority over his only begotten son, but drew the line, "this is a bridge too far", "I will not allow him to die on a cross."

And let's be honest, the cross used to crucify people, had nothing to do with the pagan cross. The same way the letter "T" has nothing to do with the pagan cross.

So your argument is patently absurd and childish.

And what you are doing is exactly the same thing Christendom does, they have a belief or dogma they already have come to believe, and they desperately try to make scripture back up their already arrived at belief, rather than let the Bible define what you should believe.

Not a single scripture you quoted has anything to do whatsoever, with the manner in which Jesus died. Jesus was killed not only by pagans serving Satan, but he was brought to trial by the actual blasphemers, the very same people the Bible describes as being a "stiff necked people" as if somehow that fact bears out that Jesus could not have died on a cross, when the opposite is born out. Killed by pagans, and brought to trial by a rebellious people who constantly "returned to their vomit". If anything those scriptures bear out that the Jews were wicked deserving of their destruction which was brought by Jehovah in 70 C.E. because not only did they kill Jesus, they hung him on a pagan cross! LOL...now I am not saying he died on a cross, I am saying we do not know, we cannot know, and there is NOTHING in history or the Bible that tells us one way or the other.

And to wrap up how stupid this argument is, I'll ask you another question I know you will not answer. Which do you think Jehovah hates more, the fact these wicked people killed humiliated and tortured his son, or the pagan cross? That is what you and WT are asserting, that Jehovah allowed all these unspeakable things to befall his son, but he drew the line at the cross...I don't know how it can be any stupider! It can't!


And therefore demonstrably proven whether Jesus died on a stake or cross is irrelevant, because everything regarding his trial, torture and death, were far worse than any pagan cross.

So to summarize, Jehovah allowed Satan to use his pagan worshipers the Romans, and the rebellious, blasphemous Jewish religious leaders and many of the Jews, to humiliate, torture, falsely accuse his Son, and then murder him...but the cross, off limits!

Yep, I thought so, it cannot be any stupider!

@BroRando You really need to start thinking for yourself, and stop letting WT do your thinking for you! It's sad and pathetic!

 

[Nomex]

Hey, this is Nomex's 11yo daughter and guess what? Even me a CHILD sees how how your argument is pathetic. I hear you say he died on the stake though its obvious there is no evidence proving so. Some of your forms of evidence that he died on a stake are that stauros does not directly mean cross. But you left out some key evidence.' the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure.'and this evidence immediately disproves your point . Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on. And that's our kindergarten lesson for the day!(Get a little smarter.)

 

[BroRando]

Hey, this is Nomex's 11yo daughter and guess what? Even me a CHILD sees how how your argument is pathetic. I hear you say he died on the stake though its obvious there is no evidence proving so. Some of your forms of evidence that he died on a stake are that stauros does not directly mean cross. But you left out some key evidence.' the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure.'and this evidence immediately disproves your point . Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on. And that's our kindergarten lesson for the day!(Get a little smarter.)

The Bible generally uses the Greek word stau·rosʹ when referring to the instrument of Jesus’ execution. (Matthew 27:40; John 19:17) Although translations often render this word “cross,” many scholars agree that its basic meaning is actually “upright stake.” According to A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, stau·rosʹ “never means two pieces of wood joining each other at any angle.”

The Bible also uses the Greek word xyʹlon as a synonym for stau·rosʹ. (Acts 5:30; 1 Peter 2:24) This word means “wood,” “timber,” “stake,” or “tree.” The Companion Bible thus concludes: “There is nothing in the Greek of the N[ew] T[estament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”

Catholicism are trinitarians whom burned people at a stauros (stake) for wanting to provide a copy of the scriptures to the people some 1500 years later...

Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on.

Not if it is a lie. To claim the truth doesn't matter is just another demonic deception, like removing God's Holy and Sacred Name from the Bible.

 

[Nomex]

Not if it is a lie. To claim the truth doesn't matter is just another demonic deception

Exactly, or like claiming Jesus returned in 1914. Just another demonic deception! An operation of Satan, a deluding influence...from the "father of the lie." Or the lie about an over-lapping generation, which had to be concocted after the "generation that would by no means pass away," who saw the events of 1914, by all means most certainly passed away. But rather than humbly admit their error, they arrogantly refused the correction from Jehovah, and just made up a new lie!


"You are from your Father the Devil!"

 

[BroRando]

But rather than humbly admit their error, they arrogantly refused the correction from Jehovah, and just made up a new lie!

So now instead of admitting that Jesus died on a stake, you push the trinitarian lie that Jesus died on a cross. CROSS is not a Biblical teaching. You do the same thing trinitarians do... it's called deflecting.

the "generation that would by no means pass away," who saw the events of 1914, by all means most certainly passed away.

John 11:26​

Jesus stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”

What's your answer for all those who read your Answer??

 

[Nomex]

So now instead of admitting that Jesus died on a stake, you push the trinitarian lie that Jesus died on a cross.

You sir, are a liar. You will not a find a SINGLE post where I said Jesus died on a cross...NOT ONE. I said we don't know for sure and there is no way to know for sure since the Romans did use a cross also in their executions. What I said is it was a crappy argument to claim "Jehovah wouldn't let Jesus die on a cross because it was pagan." It a stupid argument, and a straw man argument. I also said it destroys our credibility when JW's make posts claiming a statue depicts an execution on a stake, when in fact that is NOT what it was not even close. I also said it was irrelevant.

If WT was honest they would say, things like "we have good reason to believe Jesus died on a stake" and then quote their references, but that's not good enough for WT, they always have to take one more step, because in their arrogance they just can't help trying to seem like they know more than everyone else, and everything else. Unlike their favorite Bible character, that they constantly like to compare themselves too, "the meekest man on the earth", they are nothing of the sort. Getting humility out of the GB and WT would be like trying tot get blood out of a turnip.

Jesus very well may have died on a stake. In fact the source you quoted above, unlike you, I actually read the references, and since you don't bother to look up any of the references that6 WT quotes from, I do...in fact I looked up the "Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, stau·rosʹ" I was not able to find the supposed quote above, and since you can't be bothered to link to any references I can only assume that it is yet another lie, but here's what it says that seems to support the position you make. And once again I will actually post the link, something it seems you are incapable of doing.

A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: together with an Index of Greek words, and several Appendices (5th Edition, 1908) : Bullinger, E. W. (Ethelbert William), 1837-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : In

A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament: together with an Index of Greek words, and several Appendices, by Ethelbert William...

archive.org

(a) | Used here for the σταυρός on Jesus was crucified. Both words disagree with the modern idea of a cross, with which we have become familiarised by pictures. The σταυρός was simply an upright pale or stake to which the Romans nailed those who were thus said to be crucified, Σταυρόω, merely means to drive stakes. It never means two pieces of wood joining each other at any angle. Even the Latin word cruz means a mere stake. The initial letter X, (chi) of Χριστός, (Christ) was anciently used for His name,* until it was displaced by the T, the initial of the Pagan God Tammuz, about the end of cent. iv. ]

But you and WT ignore the fact that scholars disagree on many things, including whether Jesus died on a stake or cross. And the above reference is only ONE reference.

Once again I will say, it is irrelevant. It does not affect one's faith in any way unless they are using an idol in their worship, which I clearly condemn, just like worshiping "Jehovah's organization" and the GB is idolatry, so is wearing a cross and using it the way Christendom does.

 

[Nomex]

Not if it is a lie.

I also wanted to address this pathetic attempt at an argument as well. You have no way what so ever, of knowing "it is a lie." And that is the point. If it's a mistake fine, but that does not make it a lie! And that is my point. We do NOT and CANNOT know if it's a lie! But to claim it is a lie, is a lie in itself. The claim that it is a lie is so pathetic and sad, that is why WT invented, "Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on a cross" to support the claim that it is a lie. That is not evidence. The fact is, it could just simply be wrong.

I know you are slow, so let me go over this one more time, and maybe this time you will understand. WT, in order to elevate themselves to Jesus apostles, because they "know" have made this claim that Jesus could not have died on a cross because it is pagan. Once again, the cross which was used to execute people, had nothing to do with the pagan cross, so there's that. Also, it's so beyond stupid that you can claim Jehovah allowed everything that happened to Jesus to happen to him, accused of blasphemy, tried and convicted in an illegal trial, for blasphemy, beaten horribly, then nailed to a stake, or possibly a cross, but Jehovah drew the line at Jesus nailed to a cross it could not have been a cross. It's laughably stupid! This argument discredits and undermines the entire narrative that Jesus died on a stake!


And let me say for the record, since once again I realize you are slow, I think he probably did die on a stake. But I don't care whether it was a stake or not. It is irrelevant!

And let's be honest, the only reason you are hung up on it, is because like WT your ego won't allow you to even consider that you might be wrong.

The funny thing is, EVERY SINGLE PERSON here with the exception of a few bad apples, we were all like you, arrogant "know it alls", until we were able to humble ourselves and wake up to the actual truth! What WT claims it is, which is "Jehovah's Organization", that is actually "Jerusalem above", that is to say they claim to be "Jerusalem above" but the "Jerusalem above" it is not run by imperfect men, and it does not make mistakes.

But just like the Israelite's who wanted a King, Jehovah told Samuel, "they are not rejecting you, they are rejecting me." And because they wanted a human king, that led to all kinds of problems just Like Jehovah said it would.

What irony, WT headquarters is on 1 Kings Dr...just can't make this up!!!!

So once again fellow, you are not up to the task of making any arguments here! Humble yourself, then come back once you've educated yourself.

 

[BroRando]

What I said is it was a crappy argument to claim "Jehovah wouldn't let Jesus die on a cross because it was pagan." It a stupid argument, and a straw man argument. I also said it destroys our credibility when JW's make posts claiming a statue depicts an execution on a stake, when in fact that is NOT what it was not even close. I also said it was irrelevant.

Galatians 3:13​

Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”

Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on.

The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant means you already rejected prophecy fulfilled by holy spirit that Jesus died and was hung upon a stake?

Here's a few more scripture...
Deuteronomy 21:22
“If a man commits a sin deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death and you have hung him on a stake,

Joshua 8:29​

He hung the king of Aʹi on a stake until the evening, and as the sun was about to set, Joshua gave the order to take his dead body down from the stake. Then they pitched it at the entrance of the city gate and raised up a great pile of stones over him, which is there to this day.

Deuteronomy 21:23​

his dead body should not remain all night on the stake. Instead, you should be sure to bury him on that day, because the one hung up is something accursed of God, and you should not defile your land that Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Now let's see your denial of ANWSER to Jesus question to you refused to answer.

Jesus stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” John 11:26

What's your answer for all those who read your Answer??

Nomex obviously doesn't believe in Jesus nor his teachings, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” John 11:26

 

[Nomex]

The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant means you already rejected prophecy fulfilled by holy spirit that Jesus died and was hung upon a stake?

You can split hairs all you want, but I'll continue to humiliate you. First of all, a "cross" includes "an upright pole" or "stake"...and once again I'll say we just don't know.

And once again I am about to expose more of your lies. In both the scriptures you quote above in Deut, and Joshua, first in Joshua, the "method" in which they were killed was "by the sword," Joshua 8:24, "After Israel finished killing all the inhabitants of A'i in the field, in the wilderness where they had pursued them, and every last one of them had fallen by the sword, then all Israel returned to A'i and struck it with the sword." The King of A'i was dead when he was hung on a stake...you jackass...so that was not the "method in which he died." Wow, your "gotcha", not so much of a "gotcha." rather it's just pathetic.

And you already disproved your argument "The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant" ...by quoting this gem, "deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death"..."has been put to death." He did NOT DIE on a stake. He was dead already. But I guess somehow, in your reasoning, a stake is worse than a cross, except for the pagan part, did I get that right?

I mean think about it, all of the scriptures you quote above is supposed to be evidence that Jesus died on a stake, because it was prophesied,
“Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” yet, Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on a cross, because I guess that is more "accursed??"

And for the icing on the cake, the whole point of "Accursed is every man hung upon a stake", the point was to disgrace the person having been executed. Is your claim that dying on a cross was not "accursed" or was it too "accursed" being that it was "pagan"? But it was so accursed Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on the more accursed pagan cross, as opposed to the regularly accursed stake.

And finally, I follow the bible, not you, or WT or any other man. My comprehension is far beyond anything you can comprehend as long as you remain a WT disciple. As you wrote in another thread, the "Wonderful Governing Body". You worship men, the capitalization is very revealing. I worship Jehovah! I answer to Jehovah not you and NOT WT, or the GB! My God, is Jehovah not WT or the "Wonderful Governing Body." You on the other hand have already declared who you worship, "Wonderful Governing Body." That is your God!!!!

And once again I am going to say, Jesus probably died on a stake, but while you are harping on something you think is a "gotcha moment" "as the days of Noah were so the days of the son of man will be." You and the rest of the GB disciples are going to have your entire world devastated, because you, "follow men" and "on a day and hour that you do not think it, it will occur." It happened 110 years ago, so why "stay awake?" BTW, there is not ONE scripture, telling you to stay awake for ARMEGEDDON!!!! Not one, and if you were humble, that would be a very big eye opener!

Like Jesus said to the Pharises, you don't understand what it means about Jehovah "wanting mercy not sacrifice." You actually think the point of all those scriptures is about a literal stake, when in fact it's about the fact that Jesus would die humiliated! Do you think Jesus when he asked Jehovah to "take this cup away", was refering to dieing on a stake, or because he was convicted by the illegal Jewsih court of blasphemy. Being "hung on a stake" or hung on a cross, both would have fulfilled, “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” Your argeument is the same as trinitaries who claim "fleash and bone" will inherit God's Kingdom when the bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit god's Kingdom." You split hairs to make it meat WT doctrine.

Not one of your scriptures prove Jesus did not or could not have died on a cross. A cross includes a stake "up right pole"!!! Just like a fence includes "upright poles", does not mean the fence has no fence pickets and cross members!


Oh and BTW, since Satan is not only "the God of this world", he was also in control of the Roman's and how they killed Jesus, and since Jehovah allowed him to kill Jesus, which was worse than anything else done to Jesus....well you are an idiot!

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

You can split hairs all you want, but I'll continue to humiliate you. First of all, a "cross" includes "an upright pole" or "stake"...and once again I'll say we just don't know.

And once again I am about to expose more of your lies. In both the scriptures you quote above in Deut, and Joshua, first in Joshua, the "method" in which they were killed was "by the sword," Joshua 8:24, "After Israel finished killing all the inhabitants of A'i in the field, in the wilderness where they had pursued them, and every last one of them had fallen by the sword, then all Israel returned to A'i and struck it with the sword." The King of A'i was dead when he was hung on a stake...you jackass...so that was not the "method in which he died." Wow, your "gotcha", not so much of a "gotcha." rather it's just pathetic.

And you already disproved your argument "The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant" ...by quoting this gem, "deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death"..."has been put to death." He did NOT DIE on a stake. He was dead already. But I guess somehow, in your reasoning, a stake is worse than a cross, except for the pagan part, did I get that right?

I mean think about it, all of the scriptures you quote above is supposed to be evidence that Jesus died on a stake, because it was prophesied,
“Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” yet, Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on a cross, because I guess that is more "accursed??"

And for the icing on the cake, the whole point of "Accursed is every man hung upon a stake", the point was to disgrace the person having been executed. Is your claim that dying on a cross was not "accursed" or was it too "accursed" being that it was "pagan"? But it was so accursed Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on the more accursed pagan cross, as opposed to the regularly accursed stake.

And finally, I follow the bible, not you, or WT or any other man. My comprehension is far beyond anything you can comprehend as long as you remain a WT disciple. As you wrote in another thread, the "Wonderful Governing Body". You worship men, the capitalization is very revealing. I worship Jehovah! I answer to Jehovah not you and NOT WT, or the GB! My God, is Jehovah not WT or the "Wonderful Governing Body." You on the other hand have already declared who you worship, "Wonderful Governing Body." That is your God!!!!

And once again I am going to say, Jesus probably died on a stake, but while you are harping on something you think is a "gotcha moment" "as the days of Noah were so the days of the son of man will be." You and the rest of the GB disciples are going to have your entire world devastated, because you, "follow men" and "on a day and hour that you do not think it, it will occur." It happened 110 years ago, so why "stay awake?" BTW, there is not ONE scripture, telling you to stay awake for ARMEGEDDON!!!! Not one, and if you were humble, that would be a very big eye opener!

Like Jesus said to the Pharises, you don't understand what it means about Jehovah "wanting mercy not sacrifice." You actually think the point of all those scriptures is about a literal stake, when in fact it's about the fact that Jesus would die humiliated! Do you think Jesus when he asked Jehovah to "take this cup away", was refering to dieing on a stake, or because he was convicted by the illegal Jewsih court of blasphemy. Being "hung on a stake" or hung on a cross, both would have fulfilled, “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” Your argeument is the same as trinitaries who claim "fleash and bone" will inherit God's Kingdom when the bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit god's Kingdom." You split hairs to make it meat WT doctrine.

Not one of your scriptures prove Jesus did not or could not have died on a cross. A cross includes a stake "up right pole"!!! Just like a fence includes "upright poles", does not mean the fence has no fence pickets and cross members!


Oh and BTW, since Satan is not only "the God of this world", he was also in control of the Roman's and how they killed Jesus, and since Jehovah allowed him to kill Jesus, which was worse than anything else done to Jesus....well you are an idiot!

Why should anyone want to focus or think it was important what method was used in executing Jesus. That’s rather morbid. Like you said, that’s not important but what was important is that he was faithful till the end.
I really don’t think Jesus would want us to be debating about the way he was executed. He thought it humiliating and was ashamed to be executed alongside the worst criminals. So it really is beneath us as Christians to even be discussing this.

Can you imagine his mother Mary hearing our conversation about this topic or even the apostles?
It’s not important. What we should learn about Jesus’ death is that he proved faithful and we know that in the days ahead…when the GT hits we’ll need to be remembering the example he set.

 

[Nomex]

@BroRando He has decided to fulfill, "strain the gnat, swallow the camel." He has tied his identity to this emotional attachment to WT, and his transmuted worship of Jehovah and yet he comes here to lecture us! What a clown! I guess I shouldn't be surprised, the only people he's ever faced regarding the bible have always been dumber than he is!