Which method of execution is accurate and true? A or B?

Nomex

Well-known member
Hey, this is Nomex's 11yo daughter and guess what? Even me a CHILD sees how how your argument is pathetic. I hear you say he died on the stake though its obvious there is no evidence proving so. Some of your forms of evidence that he died on a stake are that stauros does not directly mean cross. But you left out some key evidence.' the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure.'and this evidence immediately disproves your point . Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on. And that's our kindergarten lesson for the day!(Get a little smarter.)
 

BroRando

Member
Hey, this is Nomex's 11yo daughter and guess what? Even me a CHILD sees how how your argument is pathetic. I hear you say he died on the stake though its obvious there is no evidence proving so. Some of your forms of evidence that he died on a stake are that stauros does not directly mean cross. But you left out some key evidence.' the structure on which Jesus died are stauros (σταυρός) and xylon (ξύλον). Those words, which can refer to many different things, do not indicate the precise shape of the structure.'and this evidence immediately disproves your point . Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on. And that's our kindergarten lesson for the day!(Get a little smarter.)
The Bible generally uses the Greek word stau·rosʹ when referring to the instrument of Jesus’ execution. (Matthew 27:40; John 19:17) Although translations often render this word “cross,” many scholars agree that its basic meaning is actually “upright stake.” According to A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, stau·rosʹ “never means two pieces of wood joining each other at any angle.”

The Bible also uses the Greek word xyʹlon as a synonym for stau·rosʹ. (Acts 5:30; 1 Peter 2:24) This word means “wood,” “timber,” “stake,” or “tree.”
The Companion Bible thus concludes: “There is nothing in the Greek of the N[ew] T[estament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”

Catholicism are trinitarians whom burned people at a stauros (stake) for wanting to provide a copy of the scriptures to the people some 1500 years later...

Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on.
Not if it is a lie. To claim the truth doesn't matter is just another demonic deception, like removing God's Holy and Sacred Name from the Bible.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
Not if it is a lie. To claim the truth doesn't matter is just another demonic deception
Exactly, or like claiming Jesus returned in 1914. Just another demonic deception! An operation of Satan, a deluding influence...from the "father of the lie." Or the lie about an over-lapping generation, which had to be concocted after the "generation that would by no means pass away," who saw the events of 1914, by all means most certainly passed away. But rather than humbly admit their error, they arrogantly refused the correction from Jehovah, and just made up a new lie!


"You are from your Father the Devil!"
 

BroRando

Member
But rather than humbly admit their error, they arrogantly refused the correction from Jehovah, and just made up a new lie!
So now instead of admitting that Jesus died on a stake, you push the trinitarian lie that Jesus died on a cross. CROSS is not a Biblical teaching. You do the same thing trinitarians do... it's called deflecting.
the "generation that would by no means pass away," who saw the events of 1914, by all means most certainly passed away.

John 11:26

Jesus stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”

What's your answer for all those who read your Answer??
 

Nomex

Well-known member
So now instead of admitting that Jesus died on a stake, you push the trinitarian lie that Jesus died on a cross.
You sir, are a liar. You will not a find a SINGLE post where I said Jesus died on a cross...NOT ONE. I said we don't know for sure and there is no way to know for sure since the Romans did use a cross also in their executions. What I said is it was a crappy argument to claim "Jehovah wouldn't let Jesus die on a cross because it was pagan." It a stupid argument, and a straw man argument. I also said it destroys our credibility when JW's make posts claiming a statue depicts an execution on a stake, when in fact that is NOT what it was not even close. I also said it was irrelevant.

If WT was honest they would say, things like "we have good reason to believe Jesus died on a stake" and then quote their references, but that's not good enough for WT, they always have to take one more step, because in their arrogance they just can't help trying to seem like they know more than everyone else, and everything else. Unlike their favorite Bible character, that they constantly like to compare themselves too, "the meekest man on the earth", they are nothing of the sort. Getting humility out of the GB and WT would be like trying tot get blood out of a turnip.

Jesus very well may have died on a stake. In fact the source you quoted above, unlike you, I actually read the references, and since you don't bother to look up any of the references that6 WT quotes from, I do...in fact I looked up the "Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, stau·rosʹ" I was not able to find the supposed quote above, and since you can't be bothered to link to any references I can only assume that it is yet another lie, but here's what it says that seems to support the position you make. And once again I will actually post the link, something it seems you are incapable of doing.


(a) | Used here for the σταυρός on Jesus was crucified. Both words disagree with the modern idea of a cross, with which we have become familiarised by pictures. The σταυρός was simply an upright pale or stake to which the Romans nailed those who were thus said to be crucified, Σταυρόω, merely means to drive stakes. It never means two pieces of wood joining each other at any angle. Even the Latin word cruz means a mere stake. The initial letter X, (chi) of Χριστός, (Christ) was anciently used for His name,* until it was displaced by the T, the initial of the Pagan God Tammuz, about the end of cent. iv. ]

But you and WT ignore the fact that scholars disagree on many things, including whether Jesus died on a stake or cross. And the above reference is only ONE reference.

Once again I will say, it is irrelevant. It does not affect one's faith in any way unless they are using an idol in their worship, which I clearly condemn, just like worshiping "Jehovah's organization" and the GB is idolatry, so is wearing a cross and using it the way Christendom does.
 
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Nomex

Well-known member
Not if it is a lie.
I also wanted to address this pathetic attempt at an argument as well. You have no way what so ever, of knowing "it is a lie." And that is the point. If it's a mistake fine, but that does not make it a lie! And that is my point. We do NOT and CANNOT know if it's a lie! But to claim it is a lie, is a lie in itself. The claim that it is a lie is so pathetic and sad, that is why WT invented, "Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on a cross" to support the claim that it is a lie. That is not evidence. The fact is, it could just simply be wrong.

I know you are slow, so let me go over this one more time, and maybe this time you will understand. WT, in order to elevate themselves to Jesus apostles, because they "know" have made this claim that Jesus could not have died on a cross because it is pagan. Once again, the cross which was used to execute people, had nothing to do with the pagan cross, so there's that. Also, it's so beyond stupid that you can claim Jehovah allowed everything that happened to Jesus to happen to him, accused of blasphemy, tried and convicted in an illegal trial, for blasphemy, beaten horribly, then nailed to a stake, or possibly a cross, but Jehovah drew the line at Jesus nailed to a cross it could not have been a cross. It's laughably stupid! This argument discredits and undermines the entire narrative that Jesus died on a stake!


And let me say for the record, since once again I realize you are slow, I think he probably did die on a stake. But I don't care whether it was a stake or not. It is irrelevant!

And let's be honest, the only reason you are hung up on it, is because like WT your ego won't allow you to even consider that you might be wrong.

The funny thing is, EVERY SINGLE PERSON here with the exception of a few bad apples, we were all like you, arrogant "know it alls", until we were able to humble ourselves and wake up to the actual truth! What WT claims it is, which is "Jehovah's Organization", that is actually "Jerusalem above", that is to say they claim to be "Jerusalem above" but the "Jerusalem above" it is not run by imperfect men, and it does not make mistakes.

But just like the Israelite's who wanted a King, Jehovah told Samuel, "they are not rejecting you, they are rejecting me." And because they wanted a human king, that led to all kinds of problems just Like Jehovah said it would.

What irony, WT headquarters is on 1 Kings Dr...just can't make this up!!!!

So once again fellow, you are not up to the task of making any arguments here! Humble yourself, then come back once you've educated yourself.
 
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BroRando

Member
What I said is it was a crappy argument to claim "Jehovah wouldn't let Jesus die on a cross because it was pagan." It a stupid argument, and a straw man argument. I also said it destroys our credibility when JW's make posts claiming a statue depicts an execution on a stake, when in fact that is NOT what it was not even close. I also said it was irrelevant.

Galatians 3:13

Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”

Additionally, you state that he could not have died on a cross because its pagan, yet Jehovah allowed Jesus to die and we both know he would be more concerned on Jesus' death than the thing he died on.
The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant means you already rejected prophecy fulfilled by holy spirit that Jesus died and was hung upon a stake?

Here's a few more scripture...
Deuteronomy 21:22
“If a man commits a sin deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death and you have hung him on a stake,

Joshua 8:29

He hung the king of Aʹi on a stake until the evening, and as the sun was about to set, Joshua gave the order to take his dead body down from the stake. Then they pitched it at the entrance of the city gate and raised up a great pile of stones over him, which is there to this day.

Deuteronomy 21:23

his dead body should not remain all night on the stake. Instead, you should be sure to bury him on that day, because the one hung up is something accursed of God, and you should not defile your land that Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Now let's see your denial of ANWSER to Jesus question to you refused to answer.
Jesus stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” John 11:26

What's your answer for all those who read your Answer??
Nomex obviously doesn't believe in Jesus nor his teachings, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” John 11:26

 
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Nomex

Well-known member
The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant means you already rejected prophecy fulfilled by holy spirit that Jesus died and was hung upon a stake?
You can split hairs all you want, but I'll continue to humiliate you. First of all, a "cross" includes "an upright pole" or "stake"...and once again I'll say we just don't know.

And once again I am about to expose more of your lies. In both the scriptures you quote above in Deut, and Joshua, first in Joshua, the "method" in which they were killed was "by the sword," Joshua 8:24, "After Israel finished killing all the inhabitants of A'i in the field, in the wilderness where they had pursued them, and every last one of them had fallen by the sword, then all Israel returned to A'i and struck it with the sword." The King of A'i was dead when he was hung on a stake...you jackass...so that was not the "method in which he died." Wow, your "gotcha", not so much of a "gotcha." rather it's just pathetic.

And you already disproved your argument "The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant" ...by quoting this gem, "deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death"..."has been put to death." He did NOT DIE on a stake. He was dead already. But I guess somehow, in your reasoning, a stake is worse than a cross, except for the pagan part, did I get that right?

I mean think about it, all of the scriptures you quote above is supposed to be evidence that Jesus died on a stake, because it was prophesied,
Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” yet, Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on a cross, because I guess that is more "accursed??"

And for the icing on the cake, the whole point of "Accursed is every man hung upon a stake", the point was to disgrace the person having been executed. Is your claim that dying on a cross was not "accursed" or was it too "accursed" being that it was "pagan"? But it was so accursed Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on the more accursed pagan cross, as opposed to the regularly accursed stake.

And finally, I follow the bible, not you, or WT or any other man. My comprehension is far beyond anything you can comprehend as long as you remain a WT disciple. As you wrote in another thread, the "Wonderful Governing Body". You worship men, the capitalization is very revealing. I worship Jehovah! I answer to Jehovah not you and NOT WT, or the GB! My God, is Jehovah not WT or the "Wonderful Governing Body." You on the other hand have already declared who you worship, "Wonderful Governing Body." That is your God!!!!

And once again I am going to say, Jesus probably died on a stake, but while you are harping on something you think is a "gotcha moment" "as the days of Noah were so the days of the son of man will be." You and the rest of the GB disciples are going to have your entire world devastated, because you, "follow men" and "on a day and hour that you do not think it, it will occur." It happened 110 years ago, so why "stay awake?" BTW, there is not ONE scripture, telling you to stay awake for ARMEGEDDON!!!! Not one, and if you were humble, that would be a very big eye opener!

Like Jesus said to the Pharises, you don't understand what it means about Jehovah "wanting mercy not sacrifice." You actually think the point of all those scriptures is about a literal stake, when in fact it's about the fact that Jesus would die humiliated! Do you think Jesus when he asked Jehovah to "take this cup away", was refering to dieing on a stake, or because he was convicted by the illegal Jewsih court of blasphemy. Being "hung on a stake" or hung on a cross, both would have fulfilled, “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” Your argeument is the same as trinitaries who claim "fleash and bone" will inherit God's Kingdom when the bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit god's Kingdom." You split hairs to make it meat WT doctrine.

Not one of your scriptures prove Jesus did not or could not have died on a cross. A cross includes a stake "up right pole"!!! Just like a fence includes "upright poles", does not mean the fence has no fence pickets and cross members!


Oh and BTW, since Satan is not only "the God of this world", he was also in control of the Roman's and how they killed Jesus, and since Jehovah allowed him to kill Jesus, which was worse than anything else done to Jesus....well you are an idiot!
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
You can split hairs all you want, but I'll continue to humiliate you. First of all, a "cross" includes "an upright pole" or "stake"...and once again I'll say we just don't know.

And once again I am about to expose more of your lies. In both the scriptures you quote above in Deut, and Joshua, first in Joshua, the "method" in which they were killed was "by the sword," Joshua 8:24, "After Israel finished killing all the inhabitants of A'i in the field, in the wilderness where they had pursued them, and every last one of them had fallen by the sword, then all Israel returned to A'i and struck it with the sword." The King of A'i was dead when he was hung on a stake...you jackass...so that was not the "method in which he died." Wow, your "gotcha", not so much of a "gotcha." rather it's just pathetic.

And you already disproved your argument "The fact that you claim that the method is irrelevant" ...by quoting this gem, "deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death"..."has been put to death." He did NOT DIE on a stake. He was dead already. But I guess somehow, in your reasoning, a stake is worse than a cross, except for the pagan part, did I get that right?

I mean think about it, all of the scriptures you quote above is supposed to be evidence that Jesus died on a stake, because it was prophesied,
Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” yet, Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on a cross, because I guess that is more "accursed??"

And for the icing on the cake, the whole point of "Accursed is every man hung upon a stake", the point was to disgrace the person having been executed. Is your claim that dying on a cross was not "accursed" or was it too "accursed" being that it was "pagan"? But it was so accursed Jehovah would not allow Jesus to die on the more accursed pagan cross, as opposed to the regularly accursed stake.

And finally, I follow the bible, not you, or WT or any other man. My comprehension is far beyond anything you can comprehend as long as you remain a WT disciple. As you wrote in another thread, the "Wonderful Governing Body". You worship men, the capitalization is very revealing. I worship Jehovah! I answer to Jehovah not you and NOT WT, or the GB! My God, is Jehovah not WT or the "Wonderful Governing Body." You on the other hand have already declared who you worship, "Wonderful Governing Body." That is your God!!!!

And once again I am going to say, Jesus probably died on a stake, but while you are harping on something you think is a "gotcha moment" "as the days of Noah were so the days of the son of man will be." You and the rest of the GB disciples are going to have your entire world devastated, because you, "follow men" and "on a day and hour that you do not think it, it will occur." It happened 110 years ago, so why "stay awake?" BTW, there is not ONE scripture, telling you to stay awake for ARMEGEDDON!!!! Not one, and if you were humble, that would be a very big eye opener!

Like Jesus said to the Pharises, you don't understand what it means about Jehovah "wanting mercy not sacrifice." You actually think the point of all those scriptures is about a literal stake, when in fact it's about the fact that Jesus would die humiliated! Do you think Jesus when he asked Jehovah to "take this cup away", was refering to dieing on a stake, or because he was convicted by the illegal Jewsih court of blasphemy. Being "hung on a stake" or hung on a cross, both would have fulfilled, “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” Your argeument is the same as trinitaries who claim "fleash and bone" will inherit God's Kingdom when the bible says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit god's Kingdom." You split hairs to make it meat WT doctrine.

Not one of your scriptures prove Jesus did not or could not have died on a cross. A cross includes a stake "up right pole"!!! Just like a fence includes "upright poles", does not mean the fence has no fence pickets and cross members!


Oh and BTW, since Satan is not only "the God of this world", he was also in control of the Roman's and how they killed Jesus, and since Jehovah allowed him to kill Jesus, which was worse than anything else done to Jesus....well you are an idiot!
Why should anyone want to focus or think it was important what method was used in executing Jesus. That’s rather morbid. Like you said, that’s not important but what was important is that he was faithful till the end.
I really don’t think Jesus would want us to be debating about the way he was executed. He thought it humiliating and was ashamed to be executed alongside the worst criminals. So it really is beneath us as Christians to even be discussing this.

Can you imagine his mother Mary hearing our conversation about this topic or even the apostles?
It’s not important. What we should learn about Jesus’ death is that he proved faithful and we know that in the days ahead…when the GT hits we’ll need to be remembering the example he set.
 
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Nomex

Well-known member
@BroRando He has decided to fulfill, "strain the gnat, swallow the camel." He has tied his identity to this emotional attachment to WT, and his transmuted worship of Jehovah and yet he comes here to lecture us! What a clown! I guess I shouldn't be surprised, the only people he's ever faced regarding the bible have always been dumber than he is!
 

BroRando

Member
Oh and BTW, since Satan is not only "the God of this world", he was also in control of the Roman's and how they killed Jesus, and since Jehovah allowed him to kill Jesus, which was worse than anything else done to Jesus....well you are an idiot!
Of course you would call Satan 'the God' --- that wasn't a slip... that's your faith. A denial of Prophecy of how he was to die.
@BroRando He has decided to fulfill, "strain the gnat, swallow the camel." He has tied his identity to this emotional attachment to WT, and his transmuted worship of Jehovah and yet he comes here to lecture us! What a clown! I guess I shouldn't be surprised, the only people he's ever faced regarding the bible have always been dumber than he is!
Another slip? You call Satan 'the God' but the Bible (bible)... Your true colors are showing. Where's the Christ-like demeanor?

John 11:26

Jesus stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”

What's your answer for all those who read your Answer??
And yet Your Non-Answer Proves that you don't believe in Jesus Christ nor in his personal teaching that those who exercise faith in him will never die at all. So you push 'the trinity cross'. No matter how anti-Christian you act and how many names you hurl at me, it doesn't make you righteous but the opposite.

Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. (2 John 1:9)

Now stop evading and stop with all the demonic deflections and Name Calling.

John 11:26

Jesus stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?”

What's your answer for all those who read your Non-Answer?? The truth is easy to defend.

2 Timothy 2:24

For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged,
 

Melinda

Well-known member
Of course you would call Satan 'the God' --- that wasn't a slip... that's your faith. A denial of Prophecy of how he was to die.

Another slip? You call Satan 'the God' but the Bible (bible)... Your true colors are showing. Where's the Christ-like demeanor?

And yet Your Non-Answer Proves that you don't believe in Jesus Christ nor in his personal teaching that those who exercise faith in him will never die at all. So you push 'the trinity cross'. No matter how anti-Christian you act and how many names you hurl at me, it doesn't make you righteous but the opposite.

Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. (2 John 1:9)



2 Timothy 2:24

For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged,
Reading your comments and trying to understand your reasoning is exhausting. My brain has to do acrobats to follow your thinking. Now I know how Jesus must of felt when talking to the Pharisees. You are made from the same cloth.
 

Patricia

Well-known member
Reading your comments and trying to understand your reasoning is exhausting. My brain has to do acrobats to follow your thinking. Now I know how Jesus must of felt when talking to the Pharisees. You are made from the same cloth.
I feel much the same as you and I venture to say that IS his purpose here. To distract, to confuse, to take up our time better spent on other things(such as cleaning the dog pooh from my back yard), and to start arguments.
I, for one, am done reading his kaka 💩.
Just my opinion, but I wish we would stop feeding the animals. Sigh.
Peace from Jah to your spirit sister.
 

Melinda

Well-known member
I feel much the same as you and I venture to say that IS his purpose here. To distract, to confuse, to take up our time better spent on other things(such as cleaning the dog pooh from my back yard), and to start arguments.
I, for one, am done reading his kaka 💩.
Just my opinion, but I wish we would stop feeding the animals. Sigh.
Peace from Jah to your spirit sister.
You’re absolutely right.
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
I always seem to miss a good argument. If we are all Jehovah's Witnesses, studies ex or otherwise, I can guarantee we have all covered this topic in spades. I am still amazed at how much time a JW will spend on this one. We tend to push it because of the prevalence of the use of crosses, trying get people to see that using images or objects in relation to worship is wrong.
Many years ago there was a man who had been taken hostage in one of the muslim nations. I can't even remember which one now but I do remember that the man said his captors wanted to take his cross. He said that he was willing to die to keep it. I remember thinking how stupid that was.
First, you're willing to die over an object instead of a principle. Let them take it and think they've won. If they were that ignorant and petty then they weren't batting 1000 anyway.
Anyhow, what was the point of deliberating on this old worn out point? Which requires more faith to believe: That Jesus was put to death or that God took his son, a spirit creature and put him into an imperfect human while keeping the child perfect so as not to be born into sin?
It is enough for me to try and avoid sin every day and trust me, that is a workout. Move on to something more productive. We all agree that Jesus was murdered and that it wipes out our sins. That's the only thing that matters.
 
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