Why are trinity people so obnoxious?

[Jahrule]

I sometimes get pulled into discussions with these people. No matter how polite you are, or how much you humble yourself saying we can all error, they always have the same sanctimonious, holier than thou, obnoxious attitude.

They twist your words. They throw giant blocks of text at you full of errors. You can try to correct some of it, but then they just throw a new wall of errors at you. Its like trying to teach algebra to a child that doesn't understand basic addition yet but is somehow convinced they are a mathematician.

I'm just curious if anyone else encounters this. Please tell me your best trinity discussions.

 

[Melinda Riling]

I sometimes get pulled into discussions with these people. No matter how polite you are, or how much you humble yourself saying we can all error, they always have the same sanctimonious, holier than thou, obnoxious attitude.

They twist your words. They throw giant blocks of text at you full of errors. You can try to correct some of it, but then they just throw a new wall of errors at you. Its like trying to teach algebra to a child that doesn't understand basic addition yet but is somehow convinced they are a mathematician.

I'm just curious if anyone else encounters this. Please tell me your best trinity discussions.

I have 40 years experience talking to people about the trinity. Without exception I have never gotten anywhere with a Trinitarian. What is so hard to understand a father and son relationship? You can not reason with stupid. Talking to JW’s about the truth about the truth is the same way n

 

[Jahrule]

I have 40 years experience talking to people about the trinity. Without exception I have never gotten anywhere with a Trinitarian. What is so hard to understand a father and son relationship? You can not reason with stupid. Talking to JW’s about the truth about the truth is the same way n

So funny you should mention it being analogous to telling JWs the truth about the truth because I was thinking the same thing.

 

[A B]

I have. a rule....I give them just one round on the off chance they might be honest hearted and will digest something truthful, but as soon as I see a cycle or a redirect, pick your word, I'm done and I politely move on. Often there is some weird pathology going on and I'm just better off not getting involved.

 

[SkinnyAndShort]

I’ve always been a big YouTuber debater and in all my years not once can I recall ever convincing someone about the trinity being false…I have however stumped many to the point they refuse to answer or they disappear. Those who don’t answer just dance around the quest at hand and try to change to new scriptures or give a very vague answer.

 

[SusanB]

I also have never convinced a Trinitarian to reason on the scriptures, however, once you begin talking to them by asking them questions, you will see on their face that they struggle to explain it. And, most importantly, you will find some who belong to a religion where that is the doctrine, however, they will tell you that they don’t believe in the Trinity but they just overlook that doctrine or they just don’t understand it and don’t want to.

 

[BagdadBill]

You can waste a lot of time with them. Just like Skinny just said, usually they just look to end the subject or they try to shift gears. They aren't interested in what God's word actually says and that is problem number one. If they can't get past that first requirement then nothing they learn will ever truly make sense. God will continue to be a mystery to them. Jehovah explained himself in terms which we use and easily understand like father and son. Creator and firstborn. In my mind this is one of the easiest biblical teachings to grasp because God explained it in simple human terms.
Some people need that confusion and mystery and I can't really say why.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

I sometimes get pulled into discussions with these people. No matter how polite you are, or how much you humble yourself saying we can all error, they always have the same sanctimonious, holier than thou, obnoxious attitude.

They twist your words. They throw giant blocks of text at you full of errors. You can try to correct some of it, but then they just throw a new wall of errors at you. Its like trying to teach algebra to a child that doesn't understand basic addition yet but is somehow convinced they are a mathematician.

I'm just curious if anyone else encounters this. Please tell me your best trinity discussions.

I remember not too long after I was “in the truth” I was in service and came across a Trinitarian. The Reasoning book had just come out and I pointed to and reasoned with her with all the scriptures. But it was just as Melinda said, you cannot get anywhere with them. Even using the husband and wife be coming one analogy doesn’t phase them. The Trinity teaching is one of those “entrenched” teachings.
Over the years I learned to just take my leave politely and walk away. One time I did that, the woman chased me out to my van saying she’d pray for me. I wonder why.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

You can waste a lot of time with them. Just like Skinny just said, usually they just look to end the subject or they try to shift gears. They aren't interested in what God's word actually says and that is problem number one. If they can't get past that first requirement then nothing they learn will ever truly make sense. God will continue to be a mystery to them. Jehovah explained himself in terms which we use and easily understand like father and son. Creator and firstborn. In my mind this is one of the easiest biblical teachings to grasp because God explained it in simple human terms.
Some people need that confusion and mystery and I can't really say why.

They ALWAYS resort to John 1:1. But as I tried to reason with them, to read the rest of the chapter. It makes it clear that the Father and Son are separate.

 

[Ana]

I also have never convinced a Trinitarian to reason on the scriptures, however, once you begin talking to them by asking them questions, you will see on their face that they struggle to explain it. And, most importantly, you will find some who belong to a religion where that is the doctrine, however, they will tell you that they don’t believe in the Trinity but they just overlook that doctrine or they just don’t understand it and don’t want to.

Es como cuando después de decorar el colegio de mi hija como si fuese el pasaje del terror por Halloween, el profesor, disfrazado de vampiro, te dice cuando le explico que mi hija no celebrará la fiesta: pero si tampoco nosotros celebramos Halloween!!! Menos mal! le respondo. No creen nada, ni en la Trinidad, ni la navidad, ni pascua. Solo quieren fiestas y diversión. Es el efecto de adorar a los demonios. Odian la verdad, e intentarán envolverte en sus razonamientos. Es la forma que tiene el diablo de reírse de Jehová a través de su creación. Inteligencia cero. El que quiere saber la verdad la busca. Nosotros sabemos lo que es amar una organización y buscar la verdad, desechando la mentira solapada. Eso el requiere de sacrificio y recibir mucho rechazo de parte de personas a las que amas. Es todo lo mismo, falta de amor a la verdad.

 

[Soul Sage]

People are obsessed with symbolism. I know some priests that hold the cross in their hands when they give their sermons. It's part of Babylon's delusion.

 

[SusanB]

People are obsessed with symbolism. I know some priests that hold the cross in their hands when they give their sermons. It's part of Babylon's delusion.

Symbolism and ritual.

 

[Melinda Riling]

They ALWAYS resort to John 1:1. But as I tried to reason with them, to read the rest of the chapter. It makes it clear that the Father and Son are separate.

I’ve come to like that scripture John 1:1 it says in the beginning was the word. We know the word is Jesus… yet it uses the word in the. “ beginning” Right here is says Jesus was in the beginning. How can Jesus be Jehovah when everyone knows God has no beginning.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

I’ve come to like that scripture John 1:1 it says in the beginning was the word. We know the word is Jesus… yet it uses the word in the. “ beginning” Right here is says Jesus was in the beginning. How can Jesus be Jehovah when everyone knows God has no beginning.

Great point Melinda! Now, why didn’t I think of that? Where were you when I needed your input?

 

[Jahrule]

Symbolism and ritual.

The Jews still do it better. Don't forget, tradition!

 

[Jahrule]

I’ve come to like that scripture John 1:1 it says in the beginning was the word. We know the word is Jesus… yet it uses the word in the. “ beginning” Right here is says Jesus was in the beginning. How can Jesus be Jehovah when everyone knows God has no beginning.

John 1:1 really isn't the smoking gun trinitarians think it is. What they're saying makes no sense if you think about it. In the beginning was John. John was with Bob, and Bob was John.

 

[Jahrule]

Got tired of talking to this obnoxious woman. I tried to be nice to her, but she kept throwing it in my face. So to get back at her I decide to use her own block text tactics against her. She quickly gave up.

What she didn't know is she's been talking with my AI agent for about 2 days now. I created an AI agent to pretend it was a JW in a debate with a tranitarian.

Every time she'd post a big block of text my agent replied with a much bigger block of text. It had scriptures, Greek and Hebrew text, analogies. I was able to monitor its responses before posting for quality control.

I wouldn't normally do this, but i just don't have time to respond to all her errors. You might could argue this is unethical. While that's a valid concern this woman was basically already an NPC. Setting her up into an infinite discussion with a computer just made sense. I really don't feel too bad about it.


Here's a snippet of my agent in action. Not bad.
---
Her response is to redacted. Hopefully you guys don't think too poorly of me for doing this. Its just that these people have no respect for you anyway. Why waste my time?
---

It’s insightful to compare the use of titles like 'the First and the Last' for both Jehovah and Jesus. While at first glance they may seem identical, the context and role each plays provide clarity on their distinct meanings.

In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah declares, 'I am the first, and I am the last; besides me, there is no God.' This expression in the Hebrew text emphasizes Jehovah’s role as the eternal, self-existent Creator. Jehovah is without beginning or end, absolutely unique, the only Almighty God who exists beyond time. This title speaks to His eternal nature and His position as supreme and unparalleled.

Now, when we look at the phrase 'the First and the Last' applied to Jesus in Revelation 1:17-18, we notice something crucial. Jesus says, 'I am the First and the Last, and the living one. I died, and behold, I am alive forevermore.' The addition here — 'I died, and behold, I am alive' — is something uniquely applicable to Jesus. Jehovah, by His very nature as the Almighty God, cannot die. However, Jesus, as God's Son, did experience death and was resurrected by Jehovah (Acts 2:24). So while Jesus is called 'the First and the Last' in a sense, it is in connection with his role in God’s purpose, particularly his death and resurrection, which grants him a unique position as the 'first' to be resurrected to immortality.

Furthermore, in Revelation 3:14, Jesus is called 'the beginning of the creation of God,' which aligns with Colossians 1:15, where he is described as 'the firstborn of all creation.' This reveals Jesus as the first direct creation of Jehovah, the one through whom everything else was made (John 1:3). In this sense, he is 'first' in position and honor among creation but not in the same eternal, uncreated way that Jehovah is 'the First and the Last.'

In Revelation 22:13, the 'Alpha and Omega' and 'the First and the Last' titles are again contextually linked with Jehovah, the Almighty. By contrast, Jesus is presented throughout Revelation as Jehovah’s appointed King and Lamb (Revelation 5:9-10), subordinate yet supremely honored in carrying out Jehovah’s will. The distinction lies in the unique roles: Jehovah as the eternal, uncreated source of all life, and Jesus as the honored Son, created by Jehovah, who now sits at Jehovah’s right hand.

So while similar terms are used for both, each one reflects their unique roles within God’s purpose. Jehovah, as the Alpha and Omega, is the ultimate beginning and end, while Jesus is the first in Jehovah’s creation and the last in the sense that his resurrection to immortality makes him unique among humans.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Got tired of talking to this obnoxious woman. I tried to be nice to her, but she kept throwing it in my face. So to get back at her I decide to use her own block text tactics against her. She quickly gave up.

What she didn't know is she's been talking with my AI agent for about 2 days now. I created an AI agent to pretend it was a JW in a debate with a tranitarian.

Every time she'd post a big block of text my agent replied with a much bigger block of text. It had scriptures, Greek and Hebrew text, analogies. I was able to monitor its responses before posting for quality control.

I wouldn't normally do this, but i just don't have time to respond to all her errors. You might could argue this is unethical. While that's a valid concern this woman was basically already an NPC. Setting her up into an infinite discussion with a computer just made sense. I really don't feel too bad about it.


Here's a snippet of my agent in action. Not bad.
---
Her response is to redacted. Hopefully you guys don't think too poorly of me for doing this. Its just that these people have no respect for you anyway. Why waste my time?
---

It’s insightful to compare the use of titles like 'the First and the Last' for both Jehovah and Jesus. While at first glance they may seem identical, the context and role each plays provide clarity on their distinct meanings.

In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah declares, 'I am the first, and I am the last; besides me, there is no God.' This expression in the Hebrew text emphasizes Jehovah’s role as the eternal, self-existent Creator. Jehovah is without beginning or end, absolutely unique, the only Almighty God who exists beyond time. This title speaks to His eternal nature and His position as supreme and unparalleled.

Now, when we look at the phrase 'the First and the Last' applied to Jesus in Revelation 1:17-18, we notice something crucial. Jesus says, 'I am the First and the Last, and the living one. I died, and behold, I am alive forevermore.' The addition here — 'I died, and behold, I am alive' — is something uniquely applicable to Jesus. Jehovah, by His very nature as the Almighty God, cannot die. However, Jesus, as God's Son, did experience death and was resurrected by Jehovah (Acts 2:24). So while Jesus is called 'the First and the Last' in a sense, it is in connection with his role in God’s purpose, particularly his death and resurrection, which grants him a unique position as the 'first' to be resurrected to immortality.

Furthermore, in Revelation 3:14, Jesus is called 'the beginning of the creation of God,' which aligns with Colossians 1:15, where he is described as 'the firstborn of all creation.' This reveals Jesus as the first direct creation of Jehovah, the one through whom everything else was made (John 1:3). In this sense, he is 'first' in position and honor among creation but not in the same eternal, uncreated way that Jehovah is 'the First and the Last.'

In Revelation 22:13, the 'Alpha and Omega' and 'the First and the Last' titles are again contextually linked with Jehovah, the Almighty. By contrast, Jesus is presented throughout Revelation as Jehovah’s appointed King and Lamb (Revelation 5:9-10), subordinate yet supremely honored in carrying out Jehovah’s will. The distinction lies in the unique roles: Jehovah as the eternal, uncreated source of all life, and Jesus as the honored Son, created by Jehovah, who now sits at Jehovah’s right hand.

So while similar terms are used for both, each one reflects their unique roles within God’s purpose. Jehovah, as the Alpha and Omega, is the ultimate beginning and end, while Jesus is the first in Jehovah’s creation and the last in the sense that his resurrection to immortality makes him unique among humans.

A wonderful idea Jahrule. I wonder if we can make an AI Robert Bot to hound the GB . NON-STOP Robert Rebuke AI Bot churning out Apostate Truths. It could be linked to their switchboard too, phoning non stop to argue with the duty elder about everything they publish. Non-stop Robert 24 hours a day….makes you think……

 

[SollaSollew]

Don't get your nickers into a knot over talking about the trinity to a catholic, talk to a JW about 1914, then you can define obnoxious.

 

[CyndiaS]

I sometimes get pulled into discussions with these people. No matter how polite you are, or how much you humble yourself saying we can all error, they always have the same sanctimonious, holier than thou, obnoxious attitude.

They twist your words. They throw giant blocks of text at you full of errors. You can try to correct some of it, but then they just throw a new wall of errors at you. Its like trying to teach algebra to a child that doesn't understand basic addition yet but is somehow convinced they are a mathematician.

I'm just curious if anyone else encounters this. Please tell me your best trinity discussions.

Yes, I have had similar experiences with trinitarians. They are not usually open to discussion on it, or if they are, have already made up their minds and often seem to be unmoved by scriptures that challenge their belief. They get very offended at you not accepting the doctrine, and typically view believing in the Trinity as a mark of "true Christianity" and conversely, NOT believing in it, as a sign of something akin to apostasy. In those cases, I usually try to put it aside and not make an issue of it for the time being, in favor of finding other common ground in the scriptures and see if I can appeal to their heart & desire to learn about/discuss the Bible in other ways...kind of like letting them demonstrate for both of us whether or not they are actually a true student of the Bible, as they claim...often if only with tbe singular goal to help "keep their heart/mind warm for Jehovah & Jesus" to correct at a later time or in the paradise. Imo, there seems to be some kind of heavy mind control going on with the Trinity doctrine that is almost impossible with many to penetrate for now. TBF I think the belief is so prevalent throughout Christianity and ingrained in them, that it seems like a fundamental belief that one simply just does not challenge. It's an unusual deep level of indoctrination at the very least.

 

[Jahrule]

Don't get your nickers into a knot over talking about the trinity to a catholic, talk to a JW about 1914, then you can define obnoxious.

I didn't want to break my computer

 

[PJ54]

It's because they are in fear of hellfire. They prove Satan's point in Job 2:4.

 

[kirmmy]

I have. a rule....I give them just one round on the off chance they might be honest hearted and will digest something truthful, but as soon as I see a cycle or a redirect, pick your word, I'm done and I politely move on. Often there is some weird pathology going on and I'm just better off not getting involved.

And the funny thing is when you do that, they think they've won and put up a Gootube video about it.

 

[Nomex]

This was one of those revelations I had when I first began to realize how wrong WT and the GB are and by extension the rank & file.


So here's what's happening. Think about it like this. When you are a child you have to rely on your parents to teach you well just name it, everything. But what happens if you as a child learned something wrong from a loved parent? What happens when you are presented evidence that you are wrong. The first thing you think is, "my parents wouldn't lie to me!" Rather than examine the evidence we are presented with, instead we try to justify what we already believe. What we are doing is attempting to defend the person or institution that you put your trust in to teach you the "truth."


So they begin with what they believe, and desperately do everything in their power to find evidence to support what they already believe. They DO NOT, search out the Bible to try to find out the Bible's truths they are searching out the Bible to find their truths. Unfortunately it doesn't occur to most people there is no such thing as "your truth", there is only "one truth", "the truth."

This also explains why it is almost impossible to reach JW's. They have been programed, had software installed, yes they are NPC's too, they already have the answers ready for you, "the GB wouldn't lie" "this is Jehovah's Organization", "apostate driven lies and half truths" think of everything WT has done, how much effort they have gone to to discourage any of us to think for ourselves.

And it works. It reminds me of churches telling their parishioners not to talk to JW's. Yeah, well, it's the same reason WT so desperately does not want R&F JW's reading any "apostate" material. They would have you think, of course it's only implied, but they would have us think our faith is so weak that lies of apostates will ruin yes "shipwreck" our faith. When the truth is, and reality is, it's not the lies they are worried about.

Any way, this is one of the biggest reasons we need Christ to return! Only Jesus can straighten this out, and Jesus is the only one who can reach some of these people, considering of course that it won't be too late for them. I think that's where the "mark of the beast" comes in. The whole world will witness the evidence, and what is in their and our hearts is how we will decide which side we pick.

 

[Nomex]

Today is the one month anniversary of my Mom dying. I tried to call my little brother, but he's been having trouble with his phone, I finally gave up after about 6-8 trys including calling his home phone and leaving a message. So as a result I had to call my older brother. (This post is not about the actual reason for making my call, in case anyone get;'s confused...lol.) When I talk to him, I have to really listen before I speak. He is smarter than my little brother. Or maybe just more manipulative.

Any way, he's of course concentrating on his version of what it means to serve Jehovah. That is to say WT's version. I don't know that I will ever say this to him, but maybe I will over time as I gather more information now that i see things completely differently. But it was the same old tired, "Jehovah's Organization" has done this done that etc, and how fortunate we are to have it, and then he goes on and on about any criticism is "apostate." And no he didn't word it that way. Like all passive aggressive strategies they never come out and say what they mean.

I have said this before but I am going to say it again, hopefully with some added insight. All this nonsense about "Jehovah's Organization, ignores of course that his "organization" killed Jesus. But what struck me this evening, as he was defending the GB, was this idea that an "organization" is what Jehovah uses. Did Jehovah use a "committee" assigned and approved by any group of men, or anything even remotely resembling such nonsense? No not once.

The best example of course is Jesus. The "GB" which was every much the "GB of the Jews as the Apostles were the GB of the Christians, rejected Jesus entirely. Of course they killed him. But likewise Jehovah did not send a "committee", to condemn Jezebel. In fact Elijah thought he was the last worshiper of Jehovah left on earth. Jehovah did not send a "committee" to warn the Jews about the destruction of Israel by the Babylonians. In fact they received Jeremiah in exactly the same way you would expect JW's to receive anyone who went against the GB. It really gives us insight into how this is all happening the way it is. It is the imperfect "human nature" we find ourselves in, in this system.

It is not "rejecting Jehovah" if you see something wrong with "Jehovah's Organization" and you say it out loud. If you actually do that, you are in the company of a man like Jeremiah, and dare I say Jesus, himself.

Sure Jehovah may use an origination to further his purpose, but Satan of course will do everything he can to infiltrate that "organization". And JW's like my my brother will go out of their way to claim, "that could never happen to Jehovah's Organization." Of course they mean the Organization ruled and controlled by WT, but let's not let facts get in the way.

But the whole point of this delusion, that is to say, "Jehovah wouldn't allow that", "this is Jehovah's Origination" The entire thing is predicated on the delusion, that Christ returned in 1914 and he is in control. Frankly if Jesus is in control of WT, he would have to be on Satan's side. Which of course is the point. Jesus is NOT directing this Org. That does not mean they have not USED WT! They used the Jews! No different, none what so ever. But they are not and have NEVER controlled what people do!


And let's just say what these people really think, they say this crap because they think the GB are better than the rest of us. 100% demonic! My brother actually used as an example of "apostasy leanings" by my younger brother, things like, "the GB are imperfect." Yeah he actually said that! Who does my brother actually worship?

It is exhausting. But with someone who thinks he's this smart, there isn't really any hope of reaching him. It is going to take Jesus himself to tell him, "Nope, the GB are actually Apostates", sadly I doubt that is going to happen.

I mean it is maddening. the first thing "Jehovah's Organization" did after being freed from Egypt was make a Golden Calf, which was NOT even idolatry in the sense we normally think of it. They said they were having a "festival to Jehovah." They used the calf to represent Jehovah. They were not in their minds worshiping an image, or an idol, they were worshiping Jehovah! WT has 100% become the modern day "golden calf"!!!!!

Think about this. The sin of the Israelite's was not that they made an image of a Golden Calf to represent some false god. The sin was that they made a golden calf to represent their worship to Jehovah! And then bowed down to that image. An image they made which they thought they could use to direct their worship to God. To Jehovah.

Calling anyone "apostate" because they say anything negative about WT of the GB in fact makes you guilty of the very same crime Jehovah found those worshiping the Golden Calf, because it was idolatry. Because defending "Jehovah's Organization" is NOT defending Jehovah, it is actually idolatry!