Why Did Jehovah Isolate Some of His Servants?

Something I’ve been thinking about lately is not only what feels right to us, but also how Jehovah seems to act according to His own timing.. When we look at the Scriptures, there appears to be a pattern:

Separation and judgment are not random — they happen at a specific time appointed by God.

For example, in Jesus’ illustration of the wheat and the weeds, the separation doesn’t happen throughout the whole period, but at “the conclusion of the system of things” (Matthew 13:39–30). Until then, both grow together.

Also, after Jesus came, something new was clearly established — the Christian congregation. People were not only leaving something, they were being gathered into something.

That makes me reflect on our situation today:

If someone leaves… where are they being gathered to right now?

In the first century, there was a clear place to go. Today, that part is not always so clear.

In some ways, it reminds me of the disciples of John the Baptist. Before Jesus’ ministry was fully established, they were in a kind of transitional period. There’s no indication that they all formally separated from the Jewish system immediately — but they were being prepared for what was coming next.

Another thought that stands out is how Revelation describes Jesus’ judgment of the congregations (Revelation chapters 2–3). What he highlights is not that individuals left, but whether they endured, remained faithful, and held fast despite problems around them.

That connects with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:13 — “the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Endurance
seems to be a key element.

Also, Jesus mentioned that his followers would be expelled from the synagogues (John 16:2). That made me think — expulsion implies being inside before being forced out.

And when he spoke about leaving in Matthew 24:15–16, it was connected to a specific event — something identifiable, when the disgusting thing stands in the holy place, when the 8th King stands in the christian congregation, not something undefined or ongoing.

So putting all of that together, I’ve been reflecting on this balance:

There may indeed be a time to leave. But Scripture seems to show that timing matters, and it is clearly defined by God

In the meantime, many of the qualities emphasized for true Christians — endurance, patience, love, humility are often developed in the context of dealing with imperfection, not avoiding it entirely.

That’s not an easy path, but it does seem to be a consistent theme.

Just something I’ve been thinking through.
A few things to consider:

1. Wheat and weeds: Jesus said the “field is the world,” Matt 13:38, not God’s congregation. The wheat and weeds grow together in the world until the harvest. But Paul said to “quit mixing in company” with brothers practicing sin, 1 Cor 5:11-13. So separation inside God’s house was commanded immediately, not delayed.

2. Where to go: You asked “where are they being gathered?” In the 1st century, people left the Jewish system and were gathered _to Christ_, not to another human structure, John 6:68. Same today. Matt 18:20 says even 2-3 gathered in his name count. Christ is the place, John 14:6.

3. John 16:2 [Expelled from synagogues] Expelled for following Christ, not about staying silent about corruption!

4. Revelation 2-3:* Jesus commended endurance, yes. But he also told Pergamum and Thyatira to reject false teachers in their midst, Rev 2:14-16, 2:20-23. To Ephesus he said “if you don’t repent, I’ll remove your lampstand,” Rev 2:5. Staying isn’t always endurance — sometimes its disobedience!

So for me, timing matters, yes. And my conscience tells me God’s timing for me was when I saw clear, repeated corruption and disobedience to Christ.

I’m not judging anyone who stays. That’s between them and Jehovah.
 
*Rom 8:38-39*: Nothing “will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus.” Not disfellowshipping, not shunning, not a committee. Only we can walk away from Him.

*John 10:27-28*: “My sheep listen to my voice... and no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
 
In regards to the founder of the forum he states that where possible to "stay with the program" ie...continue to support in person meetings and the Bible Study program for new students provided by Bethel. I have been a consumer of Robert's essays since 2005 and he has never preached people out of the Org since in his own words " I wouldn't want to deprive people of the opportunity that was given to me".

I think that leaves the door open for Biblelover to post his experiences and reasons for attending the meetings and why he thinks that is his best path.

To the best of my knowledge this forum is called "E Jehovah's Witnesses " because Robert supports both those who stay and leave. I am the same myself and I know it may sound duplicitous but even if I never return to meetings I support BL's right to put forth his view on the benefits of in person meetings. There is a tendency for groups including JWs and this forum to form echo chambers and I think we need to be careful of being too censorial of those whose views don't align with our own.

My position is that the Forum supports both those who leave and those who stay in the Org. If BL wants to post about his scriptural reasons for returning I have no problem with it. I don't take it personally and I think some of his reasoning is quite theologically sound and not in contravention of Robert's biblical views.

“I think that leaves the door open for Biblelover to post his experiences and reasons for attending the meetings and why he thinks that is his best path.”

More power to him but his he’s comparing apples to oranges in his application of first century Christian congregation examples with today.
The org now is blatantly idolatrous and criminal in its actions.
It suppresses truth and will soon become the instrument of stumbling to the majority of its members which will cause the loss (deaths) of those.
To survive the judgement God brings on His modern day org, just about everything they've learned will have to be rejected.
His implication that the time to leave the org is when the eighth king (the disgusting thing standing in a holy place it ought not) actually ascends to power is misleading.
The proponents of this eighth king , though in their infancy, have been present for decades and have been scheming nonstop setting up the framework for his new world order.
Their creations the U N and the W H O have infiltrated WT leadership through satanic Freemason influence and have subjected WT members to dispensing U N propaganda to the public and to comply with the W H O’s deadly covid vaccine mandates as provisions from Jehovah Himself.
Kinda looks like something standing in a holy place to me and apparently to most others on this site who have left what had once been Jehovahs organization.
You don’t have to wait until you drown in sewage to make good your escape from it.
The fact that all here who’ve left that spiritually toxic environment, and are prospering spiritually as never before, should prove they made the correct decision.
 
I agree with what you are saying in essence, but I would question whether a god of love would use terror to organise His people. The scripture tells us the opposite - “do not be afraid.”

Terror is for those that realise they are on the wrong side, worshippers of men, people who love this system, themselves, religious leaders and their power. @Proverbs 14 v 15 raised the point that Jehovah used the org to draw righteous people in. I would suggest ‘discerning people’ who first see truth, then see the lie because of the way it proves false to its power. “Having a form of godly devotion.” That to me is the point of watchtower- to alert people to (real) the truth through their default in it - just as it has done and is doing. There has to be a contrast for discerning ones to measure against, does their not? Nothing is so obvious about this site, than that it dies just that. Alert people to the lie.

When the end comes, Jehovah’s people with thank Him for letting them see the beginning of the end - if not the end. Any terror on their part may be at the time of their death, admittedly, but with hope - just as did Jesus -based upon understanding of their faith.

Sorry if I sound contradictory, but I really do see a brighter side to these times. It’s peaceful and full of hope. I don’t dread it, I welcome it, because there is nothing left here but the ashes of what should have been. It’s not something I want.

Indeed terror for the wicked and those of
W T who refuse Jehovahs discipline.
For the rest, a painful experience to be sure, leading to correction and refinement.
 
A few things to consider:

1. Wheat and weeds: Jesus said the “field is the world,” Matt 13:38, not God’s congregation. The wheat and weeds grow together in the world until the harvest. But Paul said to “quit mixing in company” with brothers practicing sin, 1 Cor 5:11-13. So separation inside God’s house was commanded immediately, not delayed.
On the illustration of the wheat and the weeds, I think there is an important aspect that often gets overlooked.

Jesus said “the field is the world” (Matthew 13:38), but he also explained that the “fine seed” are the sons of the Kingdom — real, anointed Christians.

Historically, those “sons of the Kingdom” were not left scattered in isolation. From the beginning, they were gathered into congregations (Acts 2:42, 47). So although the field is the world, the wheat became identifiable especially within the Christian congregation.

Then comes the key point:
Jesus said the enemy would oversow weeds among the wheat — not in a separate field, but among them.

That matches what later happened. After the apostles, false Christians and corrupt influences entered inside the congregation itself (Acts 20:29–30). So the coexistence of wheat and weeds is not just in the world in general, but in the very sphere where Christians are found.

That helps explain something important:

. The presence of error or corruption does not automatically mean the absence of genuine Christians
. Both can exist together for a period of time


Now, regarding “quit mixing in company” (1 Corinthians 5:11–13), that instruction is very specific. It deals with clear individual wrongdoing, not with abandoning the entire congregation where both wheat and weeds are present. If that text meant complete separation from any imperfect congregation, then in practice it would require leaving every congregation — including those in the first century, which also had serious problems.

But Jesus’ instruction in the illustration was very explicit:

“Let both grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:30)

And he identifies the harvest as the conclusion of the system of things — the moment when the separation is finally carried out.

So the picture that emerges is this:

. The wheat are real Christians, gathered and active
. The weeds are counterfeit Christians, introduced by Satan
. Both develop side by side over time
. And the definitive separation is not done progressively by humans, but decisively by Christ at the appointed time

That perspective has made me reflect on the difference between dealing with specific wrongdoing (which Scripture clearly commands) and assuming that the entire presence of imperfection means we must separate completely
 
On the illustration of the wheat and the weeds, I think there is an important aspect that often gets overlooked.

Jesus said “the field is the world” (Matthew 13:38), but he also explained that the “fine seed” are the sons of the Kingdom — real, anointed Christians.

Historically, those “sons of the Kingdom” were not left scattered in isolation. From the beginning, they were gathered into congregations (Acts 2:42, 47). So although the field is the world, the wheat became identifiable especially within the Christian congregation.

Then comes the key point:
Jesus said the enemy would oversow weeds among the wheat — not in a separate field, but among them.

That matches what later happened. After the apostles, false Christians and corrupt influences entered inside the congregation itself (Acts 20:29–30). So the coexistence of wheat and weeds is not just in the world in general, but in the very sphere where Christians are found.

That helps explain something important:

. The presence of error or corruption does not automatically mean the absence of genuine Christians
. Both can exist together for a period of time


Now, regarding “quit mixing in company” (1 Corinthians 5:11–13), that instruction is very specific. It deals with clear individual wrongdoing, not with abandoning the entire congregation where both wheat and weeds are present. If that text meant complete separation from any imperfect congregation, then in practice it would require leaving every congregation — including those in the first century, which also had serious problems.

But Jesus’ instruction in the illustration was very explicit:

“Let both grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:30)

And he identifies the harvest as the conclusion of the system of things — the moment when the separation is finally carried out.

So the picture that emerges is this:

. The wheat are real Christians, gathered and active
. The weeds are counterfeit Christians, introduced by Satan
. Both develop side by side over time
. And the definitive separation is not done progressively by humans, but decisively by Christ at the appointed time

That perspective has made me reflect on the difference between dealing with specific wrongdoing (which Scripture clearly commands) and assuming that the entire presence of imperfection means we must separate completely
I agree 1 Cor 5:11-13 deals with individuals, and disfellowshipping shows we do act before the harvest when wrongdoing is clear.

My question is: Acts 20:29,30 warns that “from among you yourselves” men will rise and speak twisted things. If we’re supposed to remove an unrepentant individual for conduct, what should we do when corruption or false teaching comes from leadership? Does “let both grow” mean we stay silent then? Continue following them? I’m honestly asking, because that’s where I’m stuck.
 
That’s a really sincere and important question @Goldie — and I think it deserves a careful, balanced look.

What has helped me is to distinguish between three different things the Bible treats differently:

1) Personal wrongdoing (clear, individual cases)

This is what 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 deals with.
Here the direction is direct and immediate — action is taken with individuals when conduct is clearly out of line.

2) The presence of false teaching or corruption developing

You’re right to bring up Acts 20:29–30. Paul expected that this would arise from within.

What’s interesting is that his instruction there is not: “leave immediately” butkeep awake,” be alert, and protect your faith.

3) The overall coexistence until the harvest

This is where Jesus’ words come in: “Let both grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:30)

That suggests that not every situation of corruption leads to immediate separation, because otherwise the illustration loses its meaning. So your question is key:

Does “let both grow” mean staying silent or blindly following?

I don’t think so, because Scripture also show

. We must not follow what is wrong (Acts 5:29)
. We must test things and hold to what is fine (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

So there is a middle ground that seems to appear in the Bible: Not blindly following, not necessarily immediately separating from everything either. But rather:

. Remaining faithful to what we know is true
. Not participating in what violates conscience
. Staying spiritually awake
. Continuing to endure while things are being allowed for a time

That’s not an easy position — and I think that’s exactly why it feels like a “stuck” place.

Even in the first century, faithful Christians had to navigate imperfect situations without always having a simple, immediate solution.

So I really understand your question. It’s not theoretical — it’s where conscience, faith, and reality all meet.

And I think each person has to work through that before Jehovah, trying to hold on to both: truth and endurance without losing either one.
 
I support BL's right to put forth his view on the benefits of in person meetings
I agree 4Jah, but BL brings the topic up a lot, and just goes on and on and on and on and on. He finally gives up, talks about other stuff (more interesting) and out of the blue brings the topic up again and goes on and on and on and on 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴 and it's always slanted on the side of "we really ought to be back at the meetings" not heavily slanted, but enough to show disapproval of those that don't want to go back to in person meetings. Me personally, I'm absolutely FOR him wanting to go back and I would never go on and on quoting scriptures trying to justify me showing disapproval of people who do go to in person meetings
Nothing more, nothing else. There absolutely is no scriptural precedence for going or staying. In fact, there's as many scriptures we could quote for leaving as there are for staying. So it's a stalemate..
 
The fact that all here who’ve left that spiritually toxic environment, and are prospering spiritually as never before, should prove they made the correct decision
Exactly! We HAD to be led to this forum to in order to continue learning deep, spiritual truths. There's no way on this earth I would have learned any of these new things if I'd continued listening only to the GB. Not only would I have not learned anything, I would have continued to get more and more confused and depressed, especially concerning the fact that everyone now has to keep schtum and accept all the silly, "shallow" and pointless changes, and the more serious changes. Eventually I would have "exploded" and probably ended up disfellowshipped. But I kept thinking about the scripture "cautious as a serpent, innocent as a dove" and kept asking Jehovah to help me find out what the heck was going on. And he did, without me having to "explode" Everyday things get clearer and clearer, the new information I've learned from Robert's book and everyone else's comments is helping to keep me strong and stable. It can ONLY be from Jehovah.. 😍
 
On the illustration of the wheat and the weeds, I think there is an important aspect that often gets overlooked.

Jesus said “the field is the world” (Matthew 13:38), but he also explained that the “fine seed” are the sons of the Kingdom — real, anointed Christians.

Historically, those “sons of the Kingdom” were not left scattered in isolation. From the beginning, they were gathered into congregations (Acts 2:42, 47). So although the field is the world, the wheat became identifiable especially within the Christian congregation.

Then comes the key point:
Jesus said the enemy would oversow weeds among the wheat — not in a separate field, but among them.

That matches what later happened. After the apostles, false Christians and corrupt influences entered inside the congregation itself (Acts 20:29–30). So the coexistence of wheat and weeds is not just in the world in general, but in the very sphere where Christians are found.

That helps explain something important:

. The presence of error or corruption does not automatically mean the absence of genuine Christians
. Both can exist together for a period of time


Now, regarding “quit mixing in company” (1 Corinthians 5:11–13), that instruction is very specific. It deals with clear individual wrongdoing, not with abandoning the entire congregation where both wheat and weeds are present. If that text meant complete separation from any imperfect congregation, then in practice it would require leaving every congregation — including those in the first century, which also had serious problems.

But Jesus’ instruction in the illustration was very explicit:

“Let both grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:30)

And he identifies the harvest as the conclusion of the system of things — the moment when the separation is finally carried out.

So the picture that emerges is this:

. The wheat are real Christians, gathered and active
. The weeds are counterfeit Christians, introduced by Satan
. Both develop side by side over time
. And the definitive separation is not done progressively by humans, but decisively by Christ at the appointed time

That perspective has made me reflect on the difference between dealing with specific wrongdoing (which Scripture clearly commands) and assuming that the entire presence of imperfection means we must separate completely
Bible lover “The presence of error or corruption does not automatically mean the absence of genuine Christians
. Both can exist together for a period of time


Now, regarding “quit mixing in company” (1 Corinthians 5:11–13), that instruction is very specific. It deals with clear individual wrongdoing, not with abandoning the entire congregation where both wheat and weeds are present. If that text meant complete separation from any imperfect congregation, then in practice it would require leaving every congregation — including those in the first century, which also had serious problems.

But Jesus’ instruction in the illustration was very explicit:“Let both grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:30)”

—— —

There is more to the scripture in its observance and meaning. “Letting” the two grow together does not rule out division, or the need to stay together. One should check inferences in translations and in common understanding, rather than choose for themselves, a doctrinal inference to suit their understanding. If you apply the word “let” as translated from Greek it shows this common fault in understanding:
  • [eaō (ἐάω)] (Strong's 1439): Means to permit, allow, or "let be". It often implies allowing something, sometimes with hesitation - or as a choice to leave something alone.
As with Jerusalem, in 70CE. the point of departure is critically discerned according to awareness, maturity, insight and spiritual tolerance. The two cannot co-exist. Where does “not eating with that one…” apply? At the point of applicable insight. There are standards to be observed. This is not a matter of instruction alone, but one of discernment. The standard is not one of compromise by association.

Insofar as the harvest is concerned; to whom does the harvest belong? Jehovah. Likewise, so do the hearts of those following Him. They have a conscience to discern and to follow, and the expectation that we do. The test, ultimately, is “whom do you serve?” Does the scripture infer that an abused child stays in the congregation when they have to endure the presence of that one? Then where does the offence against Jehovah also stand where the very people that speak in His name, side against the righteous victim and approve of their abuser?

There is an illustration to be gained by having the righteous and the unrighteous “grow” together because it heightens the colour of the example in its meaning when the two are divided. But there is no suggestion that those whom make it their business to study and discern the truth should stay together endure it. The thematics of the Bible need to be reflected beyond the word to its meaning surely? “It’s is written…” means understand it in its entirety. The examples are clear: association, manners, insight, humility, love, in empathy, understanding, reflection, activity, honesty in purpose. In other words, a matter of discerning according to understanding. Jehovah judges us as individuals.

Though these examples in discernment exist to a degree in congregations -though it is difficult to see it flourish -the over riding command is to obey the gb or face being thrown out. So what of those that are thrown out by those who “shepherd” the flock, rather than those within the flock - think about it - where do they go? And why do some stay - and for what, whom, and why?

You infer that it’s correct, no matter the abuses of mind and body, faith and lack of understanding, to stay within the congregation for the very reason that the problem has emerged, that those whom suffer under it should endure until the harvest. When does a harvest ripen? The stoney ground, the dry ground, and the right soil springs to mind. It depends upon the weather too. What is the purpose of the harvest? To gather the fruits of the Labour. The illustration of the weeds and the wheat is a picture of what it will be like, not the reason for the harvest and the harvest signifies life and the Word - salvation. Which is more important? To drag one’s self down, deny themselves the food of the Word that makes the harvest grow, to remain unfed and starved of faith, or to search for where it may be found? Do we not wish to grow in faith, or to stagnate as a pimo?

For some, it is clearly preferable to stay and that is understandable given the emotive issues to hand. The scriptures as a whole does indeed infer a measure of understanding within that realm, but equally, it is an endurance unwise for those that can not or will not tolerate the abuse of Jehovah’s truth. The key meaning in the scripture infers, as far as I can see, the choice. “Let……”. To let, to allow. It gives freedom to leave and for the truth of the Word for the individual to arise, to be demonstrated, to avoid any misunderstanding in judgement, to give the waverer the full opportunity to declare their intent of heart. It does not infer that one must stay within the congregation otherwise, surely it would say so as the commandments do. “Thou shalt not….”. The phrase “to let,” equally allows the same choice for the unfaithful to show their opposition to Jehovah. Why do they stay? To oppose. To destroy. Those that love Jehovah are scattered. They are scattering now. It’s a choice.

One might like to examine the benefits of leaving too. Personally I have learnt infinitely more about Jehovah here and can claim enough understanding to “see” Jehovah for myself. Something I never had in watchtower. I don’t feel alone in that either.

Cambridge dictionary :
“Let”
  • Permission: "Let them go to the party."
  • Opportunity: "Let the children play outside."
  • Allowance/Non-prevention: "Don't let him upset you."
  • Proposals (Let's/Let us): "Let's go home."
  • Giving Access: "Let them into the room."
  • Hypothesis: "Let
    1777216367779.gif

    a
    equal
    1777216367783.gif

    b
    ."
    Cambridge Dictionary
    Cambridge Dictionary +4
Synonyms for "Let" (Allow/Permit Context):
  • Allow
  • Permit
  • Authorize
  • Give permission/the go-ahead
  • Tolerate
  • Consent to
    Cambridge Dictionary
    Cambridge Dictionary +2
Alternatives in Context:
  • "Let them do this" can be replaced by:
    • Allow them to do this.
    • Permit them to do this.
    • Authorize them to do this.
    • Enable them to do this (in the sense of making it possible).
 

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Exactly! We HAD to be led to this forum to in order to continue learning deep, spiritual truths. There's no way on this earth I would have learned any of these new things if I'd continued listening only to the GB. Not only would I have not learned anything, I would have continued to get more and more confused and depressed, especially concerning the fact that everyone now has to keep schtum and accept all the silly, "shallow" and pointless changes, and the more serious changes. Eventually I would have "exploded" and probably ended up disfellowshipped. But I kept thinking about the scripture "cautious as a serpent, innocent as a dove" and kept asking Jehovah to help me find out what the heck was going on. And he did, without me having to "explode" Everyday things get clearer and clearer, the new information I've learned from Robert's book and everyone else's comments is helping to keep me strong and stable. It can ONLY be from Jehovah.. 😍
Me too, Prov. I kept praying to Jehovah, asking him, "WHAT IS GOING ON? Please show me!" And he surely did. It was in trickles though, which I now appreciate because I couldn't have handled it all at once and probably wouldn't have believed it. I don't think it's a coincidence we all landed here. We were shown the corruption and were instructed in Scripture what to do about it. Nowhere do I read, "go along with it." I agree with everything Ken said. He's spot on.
 
Me too, Prov. I kept praying to Jehovah, asking him, "WHAT IS GOING ON? Please show me!" And he surely did. It was in trickles though, which I now appreciate because I couldn't have handled it all at once and probably wouldn't have believed it. I don't think it's a coincidence we all landed here. We were shown the corruption and were instructed in Scripture what to do about it. Nowhere do I read, "go along with it." I agree with everything Ken said. He's spot on.
"We were shown the corruption and were instructed in Scripture what to do about it." After asking Jehovah for help. So many people just leave in disgust and blame Jehovah!! Crazy..
I'm glad too that I learned in "trickles" 😃
 
"We were shown the corruption and were instructed in Scripture what to do about it." After asking Jehovah for help. So many people just leave in disgust and blame Jehovah!! Crazy..
I'm glad too that I learned in "trickles" 😃
I never read those exjw sites anymore. They're all so proud they left Jehovah and celebrating every pagan holiday there is and congratulating eachother for it. Smh.
 
I never read those exjw sites anymore. They're all so proud they left Jehovah and celebrating every pagan holiday there is and congratulating eachother for it. Smh.
Yep, everything last little or big thing the GB have been and are doing really is separating people isn't it? And the GB's behaviour will continue to cause divisions... Anyone would think it's being engineered 😅
 
In regards to the founder of the forum he states that where possible to "stay with the program" ie...continue to support in person meetings and the Bible Study program for new students provided by Bethel. I have been a consumer of Robert's essays since 2005 and he has never preached people out of the Org since in his own words " I wouldn't want to deprive people of the opportunity that was given to me".

I think that leaves the door open for Biblelover to post his experiences and reasons for attending the meetings and why he thinks that is his best path.

To the best of my knowledge this forum is called "E Jehovah's Witnesses " because Robert supports both those who stay and leave. I am the same myself and I know it may sound duplicitous but even if I never return to meetings I support BL's right to put forth his view on the benefits of in person meetings. There is a tendency for groups including JWs and this forum to form echo chambers and I think we need to be careful of being too censorial of those whose views don't align with our own.

My position is that the Forum supports both those who leave and those who stay in the Org. If BL wants to post about his scriptural reasons for returning I have no problem with it. I don't take it personally and I think some of his reasoning is quite theologically sound and not in contravention of Robert's biblical views.
That’s true. But one should first grasp the correct reasoning and be impartial to others who wish to stay or need to leave for the very same reasons and often with far more understanding of the issues than bible lover chooses to demonstrate impartially himself. I’m sure the same was true in 70CE. Robert’s site is not actually comparable with watchtower. It allows understanding to flourish - the very thing necessary for faith. It is true to its word in that Robert for all his humanity strives to demonstrate honesty in his writing. His site offers clarity of the Word, it’s explains truth on a take it or leave it basis. He asks nothing for it. It’s free. The responsibility is ours to absorb it. And critically, it’s pretty much irrefutable in its reasoning.

From not bothering about watchtower or those left in it for decades, I now have a far greater respect for those that are still held captive and see the gb for what they are in their influence, if not by some miracle, in their hearts. I see reason, I see value in understanding of the word, its meaning and that it is alive. Even the ability to see its the Word, not the one assigned to speak it that gives it its meaning. And its meaning is no longer evident within watchtower. It withers on the vine. I retain a healthy respect for those left indecisive or bereft of their family - as I am - for their stand, but evermore so as the time draws near, we need understanding of the Word to survive its implementation. It’s not submission to it, but absorption of it into our soul so that we can express it with meaning, not watchtower automatons in their watchtower underlining. They will be rudely awoken. I wish them well.

It’s critically important for Jehovah’s people to understand the truth. They can choose that now, or learn it the harder way, but with equal justice. It’s a falsity to think that one must go back to its corrupted source to continue their own education within the word, when the provision to do so is here - and from what I see - nowhere else. The watchtower is an example of its missing the mark. It’s marked for destruction. The only reason to go back is the thought that the time is not yet. Tell that to the Romans! But above the argument is the difference of what the truth does to the heart. Do we not want to help others with the Word? What’s it for then?

What does it do? Understanding of the word. Peace, hope, faith, confidence in the Word, the ability to let go of one’s hold on life and exchange it for spiritual union with Jehovah in unity with that Spirit. Therein is life in its truest understanding and it can be had now. By all means argue about going back to watchtower or refuse to make choice, but my understanding is that the blessing of Jehovah is where one’s heart truly is in preparation to let go of this life and to reside with Him. I don’t mean that from an anointed view, I’m not, but from understanding of what love for Jehovah materialises within the heart. I found that here. Is that not what you and others have found?
 
There's plenty of imperfection in this forum and in the world to give me plenty of practice 😉
I really think you're wasting your time BL, keep saying the same stuff over and over. You really aren't going to make one iota of difference to anyone's choices on this forum, either members or visitors, because choosing to leave the org slightly, entirely or not at all, is absolutely personal and people's actions are controlled entirely by their personal circumstances and their individual consciences. It's actually quite intrusive and rude to keep going on about this topic, trying to be the master over others faith, interfering with their personal relationship with Jehovah. I sure wouldn't try to influence YOUR choice to stay or go, because it really isn't any of my business..
PS you do realise that the person who created this forum, and many people who comment on this forum are deemed to be "apostates" don't you? According to the GB we oughtn't even be looking at the information on this site, unless you're disfellowshipped too and so you're fine to be here 😅
I was fortunate to leave watchtower in hindsight. I had much to learn about the world and its inevitability. I recognised a higher spirit when I was five or six years old. I have never doubted God, and didn’t need the watchtower to convince me, but by the same token, realised it was not true to its calling. I had to wait forty years to find the truth. The cost was and remains enormous but so will be the reward. Priorities Proverbs. Priorities! The fuel if faith.
 
I was fortunate to leave watchtower in hindsight. I had much to learn about the world and its inevitability. I recognised a higher spirit when I was five or six years old. I have never doubted God, and didn’t need the watchtower to convince me, but by the same token, realised it was not true to its calling. I had to wait forty years to find the truth. The cost was and remains enormous but so will be the reward. Priorities Proverbs. Priorities! The fuel if faith.
I believed in God from a very young age too, to me, it's glaringly obvious 😍
 
2. Where to go: You asked “where are they being gathered?” In the 1st century, people left the Jewish system and were gathered _to Christ_, not to another human structure, John 6:68. Same today. Matt 18:20 says even 2-3 gathered in his name count. Christ is the place, John 14:6.

On the question “where are they gathered?”, I think the first century gives an important pattern.

It’s true that people were ultimately gathered to Christ (John 6:68; 14:6). But that wasn’t something abstract or isolated. In practice, they were gathered into a visible, functioning community — the Christian congregation (Acts 2:42, 46–47).

So when they left the Jewish system, they didn’t just disperse individually — they were brought into something organized, where they could grow, be taught, encourage one another, and participate in the ministry.

That’s what makes me reflect on our situation today:

If someone leaves, where are they actually being gathered in a practical sense?

Because being “gathered to Christ” in the first century always had a visible expression, not just a personal or informal one.

Regarding Matthew 18:20 (“where two or three are gathered in my name…”), the context is important. Jesus is speaking about handling sin and resolving matters within the congregation (see verses 15–17). So the point is that even a small number has Christ’s backing when acting in harmony with his authority — not that this replaces the broader structure of the congregation.

So that text reassures us of Christ’s presence, but it doesn’t redefine the pattern of Christian association.

Putting it all together, I see this:

. In the first century, leaving one system meant being gathered into another
. Today, that equivalent gathering point is not clearly established outside the congregation
. According to Jesus’ illustration, the full separation and gathering happens at the harvest — the conclusion (Matthew 13:30, 39)

So in the meantime, it seems we are in that period where growth continues, both genuine and false elements coexist and the final gathering is still future and directed by Christ himself

That’s what has made me think carefully about not only leaving something, but also what we are being gathered into right now in a practical, ongoing way.
 
On the question “where are they gathered?”, I think the first century gives an important pattern.

It’s true that people were ultimately gathered to Christ (John 6:68; 14:6). But that wasn’t something abstract or isolated. In practice, they were gathered into a visible, functioning community — the Christian congregation (Acts 2:42, 46–47).

So when they left the Jewish system, they didn’t just disperse individually — they were brought into something organized, where they could grow, be taught, encourage one another, and participate in the ministry.

That’s what makes me reflect on our situation today:

If someone leaves, where are they actually being gathered in a practical sense?

Because being “gathered to Christ” in the first century always had a visible expression, not just a personal or informal one.

Regarding Matthew 18:20 (“where two or three are gathered in my name…”), the context is important. Jesus is speaking about handling sin and resolving matters within the congregation (see verses 15–17). So the point is that even a small number has Christ’s backing when acting in harmony with his authority — not that this replaces the broader structure of the congregation.

So that text reassures us of Christ’s presence, but it doesn’t redefine the pattern of Christian association.

Putting it all together, I see this:

. In the first century, leaving one system meant being gathered into another
. Today, that equivalent gathering point is not clearly established outside the congregation
. According to Jesus’ illustration, the full separation and gathering happens at the harvest — the conclusion (Matthew 13:30, 39)

So in the meantime, it seems we are in that period where growth continues, both genuine and false elements coexist and the final gathering is still future and directed by Christ himself

That’s what has made me think carefully about not only leaving something, but also what we are being gathered into right now in a practical, ongoing way.
You said 1st-century Christians were gathered into a “visible, functioning community.” I agree. But that community met in houses. Romans 16:5, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 2. There was no central headquarters, no branch offices, no monthly broadcast. So who was the Governing Body in Antioch? Acts 13:1-3. Holy spirit spoke directly to that local congregation to send out Paul and Barnabas. Jerusalem didn’t command it.

If the pattern is “visible organization,” then why did Paul act independently of Jerusalem most of the time? Galatians 1:16-17. He didn’t go up to Jerusalem or consult with any human authority for 3 years after his conversion.

Christ said “where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20. You say that doesn’t replace the broader structure. But who is the broader structure in that verse? Jesus didn’t mention one. He said he is there.

You’re asking where people are gathered practically. The 1st-century pattern was practical: believers gathering in homes with Christ in their midst. So my question back: If someone today is gathered with two or three others to read Scripture, pray, and encourage, and Christ says he is there… who am I to say that’s not enough?
 
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You said 1st-century Christians were gathered into a “visible, functioning community.” I agree. But that community met in houses. Romans 16:5, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 2. There was no central headquarters, no branch offices, no monthly broadcast. So who was the Governing Body in Antioch? Acts 13:1-3. Holy spirit spoke directly to that local congregation to send out Paul and Barnabas. Jerusalem didn’t command it.

If the pattern is “visible organization,” then why did Paul act independently of Jerusalem most of the time? Galatians 1:16-17. He didn’t go up to Jerusalem or consult with any human authority for 3 years after his conversion.

Christ said “where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20. You say that doesn’t replace the broader structure. But who is the broader structure in that verse? Jesus didn’t mention one. He said he is there.

You’re asking where people are gathered practically. The 1st-century pattern was practical: believers gathering in homes with Christ in their midst. So my question back: If someone today is gathered with two or three others to read Scripture, pray, and encourage, and Christ says he is there… who am I to say that’s not enough?

That’s a thoughtful question, and I think you’re highlighting something important about the simplicity of first-century Christian life.

I agree — they met in homes (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19; Colossians 4:15; Philemon 2). It wasn’t a centralized, corporate structure.

At the same time, those house gatherings were not isolated or independent. They were interconnected congregations, sharing teaching, cooperation, and unity.

For example:

. In Acts 15, a major doctrinal issue was resolved collectively and the decision was shared with all congregations.

. In Acts 13:1–3, the spirit directed action locally in Antioch, but within an already connected body.

Even Paul, though he had a unique role, still sought unity with others (Galatians 2:1–2).

So there seems to be a balance: simple, local gathering but also broader unity and cooperation

Also, something I find very interesting is that early Christians didn’t immediately cut off all association with the Jewish system:

. They were in the temple regularly (Acts 2:46; 5:42)
. Paul continued going into synagogues to teach and reason (Acts 17:1–2; 18:4)

So you have this situation: they were already part of the Christian congregation, yet for a time they still interacted with imperfect religious settings

Not because those systems were right, but because that’s where people were, thus where teaching could take place and the full separation had not yet come in Jehovah’s timing.

Eventually, separation did happen — often through being expelled (John 16:2) or finally when the signal was fullfilled in 66 C.E. when the Roman army ("the disgusting thing") attacked Jerusalem and its temple (Matthew 24:15)

Regarding Matthew 18:20, I agree with you — if two or three gather sincerely in Christ’s name, he is there. At the same time, the context (verses 15–17) shows Jesus was speaking about handling matters within the congregation. So the point is reassurance of his presence, not defining the full structure of Christian life.

So I wouldn’t say small gatherings are “not enough.” Christ can be present there. But the question I keep reflecting on is:

Is that the complete pattern? Or part of a broader one that includes ongoing association, cooperation, and growth within a larger body?

Because in the first century, believers were not just isolated groups — they were part of something that extended beyond that, even if it remained simple and decentralized.

So I see value in both small, sincere gatherings where Christ is present and a broader association that supports teaching, unity, and endurance

That’s the balance I’ve been trying to understand.
 
Something I’ve been reflecting on is whether our situation today may, in some ways, resemble that of faithful Jews before Jesus’ first coming, especially in the days of John the Baptist.

At that time, there were sincere servants of God within the Jewish system. They could see corruption and hypocrisy in the leadership, yet there was not yet a clearly established alternative. John prepared people, but the full gathering point only became clear once Jesus’ ministry was underway. That raises an interesting parallel:

They had to remain faithful within a flawed system while being prepared for something that had not fully arrived yet

In a similar way, one could see today as a transitional period, before Christ’s return and before the final gathering becomes clear.

For example, Jesus’ illustration shows that the harvest and separation happen at the conclusion, not before (Matthew 13:30, 39).

Also, when Jesus judges the congregations, the emphasis is not on leaving, but on endurance and faithfulness despite conditions (Revelation 2–3; Matthew 24:13).

Another detail that stands out is that Jesus said his followers would be expelled from the synagogues (John 16:2). That implies they would still be present among them until that moment — not necessarily leaving beforehand.

And when he spoke about leaving in Matthew 24:15–16, it was tied to a specific, identifiable event, not a general or ongoing condition.

So putting those elements together, it suggests a pattern where:

.There is a period of coexistence and testing
. Faithful ones continue to serve and endure within imperfect settings
. And the decisive separation comes at a clearly defined moment directed by Christ

Regarding future developments, prophecy does indicate a time when God’s servants take a more direct and visible role under Christ’s authority (see Revelation 11:3–7, which speaks of a defined period of testimony). But the exact timing and manner are things we have to approach carefully and humbly.

So rather than drawing firm conclusions, what this line of thought raises for me is:

Are we currently in a preparatory phase, similar to those before Christ’s first coming?
And if so, does faithfulness now involve endurance and readiness, rather than immediate separation?


It’s not an easy question, but it does seem that Jehovah’s timing and Christ’s direction are central to how these things unfold.
 
That’s a thoughtful question, and I think you’re highlighting something important about the simplicity of first-century Christian life.

I agree — they met in homes (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19; Colossians 4:15; Philemon 2). It wasn’t a centralized, corporate structure.

At the same time, those house gatherings were not isolated or independent. They were interconnected congregations, sharing teaching, cooperation, and unity.

For example:

. In Acts 15, a major doctrinal issue was resolved collectively and the decision was shared with all congregations.

. In Acts 13:1–3, the spirit directed action locally in Antioch, but within an already connected body.

Even Paul, though he had a unique role, still sought unity with others (Galatians 2:1–2).

So there seems to be a balance: simple, local gathering but also broader unity and cooperation

Also, something I find very interesting is that early Christians didn’t immediately cut off all association with the Jewish system:

. They were in the temple regularly (Acts 2:46; 5:42)
. Paul continued going into synagogues to teach and reason (Acts 17:1–2; 18:4)

So you have this situation: they were already part of the Christian congregation, yet for a time they still interacted with imperfect religious settings

Not because those systems were right, but because that’s where people were, thus where teaching could take place and the full separation had not yet come in Jehovah’s timing.

Eventually, separation did happen — often through being expelled (John 16:2) or finally when the signal was fullfilled in 66 C.E. when the Roman army ("the disgusting thing") attacked Jerusalem and its temple (Matthew 24:15)

Regarding Matthew 18:20, I agree with you — if two or three gather sincerely in Christ’s name, he is there. At the same time, the context (verses 15–17) shows Jesus was speaking about handling matters within the congregation. So the point is reassurance of his presence, not defining the full structure of Christian life.

So I wouldn’t say small gatherings are “not enough.” Christ can be present there. But the question I keep reflecting on is:

Is that the complete pattern? Or part of a broader one that includes ongoing association, cooperation, and growth within a larger body?

Because in the first century, believers were not just isolated groups — they were part of something that extended beyond that, even if it remained simple and decentralized.

So I see value in both small, sincere gatherings where Christ is present and a broader association that supports teaching, unity, and endurance

That’s the balance I’ve been trying to understand.
Thanks for all your research Bible lover. I know you only have good intentions. We serve a loving God who will take all things into consideration.
 
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