Why did the Watchtower's 1975 prediction, fail? (The end of the 6,000yr rule of man in 2030?)

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YAMW

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Of course. I am certain that the vast majority here are very familiar with the Watchtower's failed prediction or in their view - "an assumption," regarding the year of 1975.

In this thread. I intend and seek to show and to reveal two particular miscalculations or errors that of which I and some others currently believe, had led to the Watchtower's misunderstandings. But, before I continue. It must be noted and understood. That although the Watchtower's prediction has indeed been proven faulty, there is however one aspect it all that remains to be true.

The Watchtower, at that time, had believed and understood that there was a 7,000-yr plan or timeline that was currently in place. Well, I too certainly believe that to be the case.

Of course. It is no secret that Adam's and Eve's "fall into sin," had completely spoiled and ruined the initial 7days of creation. However, despite the first couple's mishap. Jehovah God, in his endeavor to restore the 7days of creation and his initial purpose for the Earth, has allowed 7,000yrs to repair man's error.

The 7,000yr plan of Jehovah God, I believe, has been pictured within a timeline of a single week, 7 symbolic "days" in total. Essentially. Each day out of that symbolic week represents a single 1,000yr time period. The first 6 symbolic "days" is of course a representation of the 6,000yrs that mankind has been given and allowed to self-governance themselves, under man's and Satan's rule.

This too is seen within the Law of Moses where it is explained that man must "labor" for 6 days in total. - Exodus 20:9-11, Deuteronomy 5:13

Interestingly. In Colossians 2:17, Christians are therefore reminded by the Apostle Paul that the Law was a "shadow of things to come" or in other words, had mirrored something much greater. -Hebrew 8:5. And for similar reasons, that has been explained above.

Nonetheless. With that being explained.

There are a couple of reasons as to why the Watchtower was incorrect in their calculations and in their prediction.

The Watchtower's first error, I believe, was their proposed erroneous calculation of the year of the World's and Adam's creation. According to God's people, the creation of the first man Adam, had supposedly dated back to 4,026BC. This particular date, in comparison to what was once widely accepted, is 22yrs further in the past or two decades more than what the James Ussher's figure(the more accurate chronological calculation I believe), had anticipated.

This means that the Watchtower's proposed "timeline" is both inaccurate and slightly off and of course, that shouldn't truly be too surprising to anyone here. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968324 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102009479

Now, because the Watchtower's calculation and timeline is slightly inaccurate. This of course had led to a plethora of failed expectations and predictions in the past, including and especially the years of "1914" and "1975." According to God's people, the year of 1975 was supposed to mark "the end of the 6,000yr creation of man or the period of man’s existence."

However to no surprise. Similarly to what had occurred in 1914, 1925 and in the year of 1975. All expectations were entirely unmet and were thus, proven untrue.

The Watchtower's understanding was that, 4,026BC+6000yrs had equaled to the year of 1975CE. In that, perhaps they were confident that something significant was destined to occur. In one of their articles, even. The Watchtower had asserted that James Ussher's chronological couldn't have been correct since "the 6,000yr creation of man would have ended in the year of 1997," according to Ussher's chronology. To them, it just had seemed too unreasonable to consider(for obvious reasons).

However. Truthfully, there has always been a major issue with their interpretation and calculation. In that. Not only did the Watchtower base their prediction on their erroneous and miscalculated year of Adam's creation in 4,026BC.

But, most importantly. God's people did not take into account that the 6,000yrs should not have been merely counted from the year of Adam's creation. But, that the 6,000yrs must be counted from the year that Adam had sinned and rebelled against Jehovah God. It is within that particular year of Adam's sin, that the 6,000yr rule of man had officially begun and when that clock had officially begun ticking.

So, the question should have been. How old was the first man Adam was when he had first sinned against the Creator?

Well. Surely, a reasoning individual who is seeking the answer to such a question, could perhaps conclude that the first man Adam would've had to have been 33yrs of age at the time of his sin.

How so?

Well, according to the scriptures. Christ, as the second Adam(who had died at the age of 33), had to live a corresponding life to that of the first-man Adam. The corresponding ransom of the second Adam would've thus included being of the same age as that first perfect human soul - the age, that first human soul would've been when he forfeited his perfect human life through sin.

Thus. Could it be that the Christ's death at the age of 33, signifies that the first man Adam had sinned at age 33 and therefore begun "dying(deteriorating)" at the exact age of 33?

Or

Could it be that the age of Christ, who had forfeited his perfect human life for mankind's sins at age 33, represents the age that the first-man Adam would've had to have been, when he had forfeited his perfect human life and that of his offspring through sin?

Well. I have no doubt that this is indeed the case.

With that said. Unfortunately for the Watchtower Society, their erroneous date of 4,026BC is proven wrong by simply counting 33yrs from 4,026BC. Which would then bring us to the year, 3,993BC - the year that Adam would've supposedly had sinned or when man's rule would've officially begun(if their timeline was indeed correct).

Futhermore. Counting 6,000yrs from 3,993BC would then bring us to the year of 2008CE. A year that was certainly insignificant at least, biblically.


But, what about the creation date of 4,004BC?

Again. If Adam was indeed created in 4,004BC and but had later sinned and rejected Jehovah's sovereignty at the age of 33. Then. That would of course bring us to the year of 3971 BCE.

Counting 6,000yrs from that year(3,971BC), would then bring us to the year of 2030CE. - That is, 2,000yrs after Christ had "returned to his place."

-Hosea 5:15, 6:2

Question is. Will the anointed ones be resurrected, revived and be healed "two days" after the Christ had returned to his place in 30CE, as Hosea 6:2 foretells?

I certainly believe so, and so should you.

In conclusion. "Have we learned nothing from the 1975 fiasco?"

Perhaps so, @Nomex. Perhaps, we all just did.
 
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Your numbers may be off but that seems like it's around the same timeframe anyways. You seem to like numerology but it doesn't always have a meaning. Sometimes it's a coincidence. Just because someone at a meeting is wearing the exact same tie as you doesn't mean that you both planned to wear that tie that day. It was a coincidence you brought that tie at the same store and wore it on the same day.
 
Your numbers may be off but that seems like it's around the same timeframe anyways. You seem to like numerology but it doesn't always have a meaning. Sometimes it's a coincidence. Just because someone at a meeting is wearing the exact same tie as you doesn't mean that you both planned to wear that tie that day. It was a coincidence you brought that tie at the same store and wore it on the same day.
1. These are not "my numbers," sir.

2. I have no interest in "Numerology," but I certainly do have interest in true biblical chronology.

3. What is your current understanding on Hosea 5:15-6:2? If it is the same as Robert's, then surely you shouldn't be disagreeing. https://e-watchman.com/on-the-third-day-he-will-raise-us-up/
 
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That is really interesting, I do often wonder though, were we ever correct to claim that mankind has been ruling themselves since Adam sinned? I am not sure why the society claims this, the only scriptures I see say we are under Satan's rulership. Subject to sin and death, yes, but, not ourselves, I don't think ruling ourselves was ever the fundamental issue, it was whether Satan had the right or ability to rule us.
Please nobody bite!
I am interested in this, if there are any scriptures to prove mankind are ruling themselves or that was the fundamental issue, I would genuinely love to know and would accept them, I am not looking for an argument.
Very interesting calculations, though, I'll look into them! Satan certainly is working towards the year 2030 himself for some reason or other!
 
In conclusion. "Have we learned nothing from the 1975 fiasco?"
You didn't get the "trying to figure out the timeline wrong", you got the math wrong." I get it now!
 
Hey @YAMW there's a whole thread about people being nicer to you...it's pretty much directed at me...the thing is when people see this they'll realize I was right all along!
 
Hey @YAMW there's a whole thread about people being nicer to you...it's pretty much directed at me...the thing is when people see this they'll realize I was right all along!
Simmer down Batman. :ROFLMAO:
 
I actually think it's good to have 2 or more people with entrenched positions debating, because I'm here for serious Bible debate. I seek to learn things I don't know, so I can understand the Bible better. I also accept that everyone doesn't think the way I do. Some people just want positive threads, and I accept that. May advice to them is to avoid the ones that get heated. I also advise everyone who does get heated to check themselves and play nice. Defend your position without resorting to name calling and arrogance. You may believe you're correct, but unless it's 100% discernable, and not simply your own conjecture, then you won't know you're correct until Jesus corrects you. I for one don't want to receive a ton of lashes due to arrogance. I'm hoping for a few.
 
1. These are not "my numbers," sir.

2. I have no interest in "Numerology," but I certainly do have interest in true biblical chronology.

3. What is your current understanding on Hosea 5:15-6:2? If it is the same as Robert's, then surely you shouldn't be disagreeing. https://e-watchman.com/on-the-third-day-he-will-raise-us-up/

About the Hosea scripture. It's broad but I believe the last days are here. If I had to pinpoint it would be 2034 but that's just a guess. We shouldn't have to worry about the day or hour because we can die tomorrow. Though it's interesting seeing Bible prophecy slowly come to fruition. I don't think it comes sooner as I think Trump will play a pivotal role on the world stage.
 
The year of Adam's creation is irrelevant. God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation. It ended when God created Eve, and thus, God's Sabbath began shortly thereafter. The length of time Adam was alone in the garden is unknowable. However, it can be discerned to have been some years, given the fact that when Adam first saw his wife, he exclaimed, "At last!" Even so, there is no chronology that allows us to affix the time of Eve's creation and the beginning of God's rest period that will conclude at the end of the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Thus, the beginning of the 1,000 years is not knownable via chronology.
 
The year of Adam's creation is irrelevant. God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation. It ended when God created Eve, and thus, God's Sabbath began shortly thereafter. The length of time Adam was alone in the garden is unknowable. However, it can be discerned to have been some years, given the fact that when Adam first saw his wife, he exclaimed, "At last!" Even so, there is no chronology that allows us to affix the time of Eve's creation and the beginning of God's rest period that will conclude at the end of the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Thus, the beginning of the 1,000 years is not knownable via chronology.
Robert.

I think you may need to re-read what I've wrote, very carefully. You're not addressing anything that I've stated.
 
Robert.

I think you may need to re-read what I've wrote, very carefully. You're not addressing anything that I've stated.
No reason to re-read it. It is clear to me you don't know what you are talking about.
 
The year of Adam's creation is irrelevant. God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation. It ended when God created Eve, and thus, God's Sabbath began shortly thereafter. The length of time Adam was alone in the garden is unknowable. However, it can be discerned to have been some years, given the fact that when Adam first saw his wife, he exclaimed, "At last!" Even so, there is no chronology that allows us to affix the time of Eve's creation and the beginning of God's rest period that will conclude at the end of the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Thus, the beginning of the 1,000 years is not knownable via chronology.
For example. "The length of time Adam was alone in the garden is unknowable."

Where in the post did I ever claim or had insinuated that I knew the length of time that Adam was alone in the Garden? Lol
 
The year of Adam's creation is irrelevant. God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation. It ended when God created Eve, and thus, God's Sabbath began shortly thereafter. The length of time Adam was alone in the garden is unknowable. However, it can be discerned to have been some years, given the fact that when Adam first saw his wife, he exclaimed, "At last!" Even so, there is no chronology that allows us to affix the time of Eve's creation and the beginning of God's rest period that will conclude at the end of the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Thus, the beginning of the 1,000 years is not knownable via chronology.

As I stated above,

"But, most importantly. God's people did not take into account that the 6,000yrs should not have been merely counted from the year of Adam's creation. But, that the 6,000yrs must be counted from the year that Adam had sinned and rebelled against Jehovah God. It is within that particular year of Adam's sin, that the 6,000yr rule of man had officially begun and when that clock had officially begun ticking."

Which year did I say was relevant?

The year of Adam's creation or the year that Adam sinned?

"God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation."


I never claimed or stated that it did.
 
As I stated above,

"But, most importantly. God's people did not take into account that the 6,000yrs should not have been merely counted from the year of Adam's creation. But, that the 6,000yrs must be counted from the year that Adam had sinned and rebelled against Jehovah God. It is within that particular year of Adam's sin, that the 6,000yr rule of man had officially begun and when that clock had officially begun ticking."

Which year did I say was relevant?

The year of Adam's creation or the year that Adam sinned?

"God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation."


I never claimed or stated that it did.
The year Adam sinned has nothing to do with it, either. As I said, you don't know what you are talking about.
 
The year Adam sinned has nothing to do with it, either. As I said, you don't know what you are talking about.
Robert. How doesn't Adam's sin and rebellion against Jehovah God, have nothing to do with the beginning of man's or Satan's rule?

That is literally what I am referring to.

I'm not talking about the literal sixth creative day. So again, you are the one who are misunderstanding what I wrote.
 
The year of Adam's creation is irrelevant. God's sixth creative day did not end with Adam's creation. It ended when God created Eve, and thus, God's Sabbath began shortly thereafter. The length of time Adam was alone in the garden is unknowable. However, it can be discerned to have been some years, given the fact that when Adam first saw his wife, he exclaimed, "At last!" Even so, there is no chronology that allows us to affix the time of Eve's creation and the beginning of God's rest period that will conclude at the end of the 1,000-year reign of Christ. Thus, the beginning of the 1,000 years is not knownable via chronology.
I'm glad you pointed this out, because it slipped my mind. Sometime during Jehovah's rest, Satan did his thing, but it just occurred to me that Jehovah could have allowed Satan 6,000 years to try and recreate his own paradise. As for Adam's age... I'm with you, it's irrelevant.
 
I'm glad you pointed this out, because it slipped my mind. Sometime during Jehovah's rest, Satan did his thing, but it just occurred to me that Jehovah could have allowed Satan 6,000 years to try and recreate his own paradise. As for Adam's age... I'm with you, it's irrelevant.
When did Adam reject Jehovah's sovereignty?

Or

When did man's rule or Satan's rule officially begin?

Did it not begin when Adam and Eve had sinned and rebelled against Jehovah? So, how could Adam's age at the time of sin and rebellion, not be relevant to this?
 
Robert. How doesn't Adam's sin and rebellion against Jehovah God, have nothing to do with the beginning of man's or Satan's rule?

That is literally what I am referring to.

I'm not talking about the literal sixth creative day. So again, you are the one who are misunderstanding what I wrote.
If you're right, and Jehovah gave Satan 6,000 years to prove himself... then Adam's age at his rebellion is irrelevant. It would however start the clock on Satan's 6,000 year test. Would Satan know he was given 6,000 years? According to Jesus, no, and nothing in the Bible tells us this is a fact. The only thing I'm basing my opinion is the nearness of the 6,000 years being up. That said, it doesn't really matter, since it doesn't change what we're getting ready for, right? Even if Jehovah told me in a dream that the end would come in 6 years, I wouldn't start sinning. This is an interesting discussion, but nothing that should cause division or ill feelings.
 
When did Adam reject Jehovah's sovereignty?
Sometime during Jehovah's rest.

When did man's rule or Satan's rule begin?
The day Adam was booted from Eden.

How could Adam's age at the time of sin and rebellion, not be relevant to this?
I just don't see the connection to Jesus' age. I'm not saying you're wrong, but IMHO, this is unknowable and not worth arguing over.
 
When did Adam reject Jehovah's sovereignty?

Or

When did man's rule or Satan's rule officially begin?

Did it not begin when Adam and Eve had sinned and rebelled against Jehovah? So, how could Adam's age at the time of sin and rebellion, not be relevant to this?
I'm sure the Bible Students were 100% sure of their 1914 calculations, which turned out to be Satanically inspired. We can't fall for the same trap. IMHO this debate doesn't matter as long as we remain prepared for the end to start tomorrow or delay 100 years.
 
If you're right, and Jehovah gave Satan 6,000 years to prove himself... then Adam's age at his rebellion is irrelevant. It would however start the clock on Satan's 6,000 year test. Would Satan know he was given 6,000 years? According to Jesus, no, and nothing in the Bible tells us this is a fact. The only thing I'm basing my opinion is the nearness of the 6,000 years being up. That said, it doesn't really matter, since it doesn't change what we're getting ready for, right? Even if Jehovah told me in a dream that the end would come in 6 years, I wouldn't start sinning. This is an interesting discussion, but nothing that should cause division or ill feelings.

If you're right, and Jehovah gave Satan 6,000 years to prove himself... then Adam's age at his rebellion is irrelevant.

If Jehovah gave Satan 6,000yrs to prove himself, then Adam's age at his rebellion would be relevant.

How so?

Because Jehovah God would've gave the Devil 6,000yrs to prove himself, at the time of Adam's sin or in the year that Adam rebelled.

Therefore. Those 6,000yrs would need to have been counted from the time and year of Adam's sin. Thus. The time of Adam's sin would indeed be very much relevant, since that is when the 6,000yr countdown would've officially begun.

The age of Adam at the time of sin is important because we would need to subtract 33yrs(or subtract the age Adam would've been at the time of his sin), from the year of his creation, in order to know both the year of Adam's sin and the year of when the Devil would've been give the 6,000yrs to prove his claims.
 
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If you're right, and Jehovah gave Satan 6,000 years to prove himself... then Adam's age at his rebellion is irrelevant.

If Jehovah gave Satan 6,000yrs to prove himself, then Adam's age at his rebellion would be relevant.

How so?

Because Jehovah God would've gave the Devil 6,000yrs to prove himself, at the time of Adam's sin or in the year that Adam rebelled.

Therefore. Those 6,000yrs would need to have been counted from the time and year of Adam's sin. Thus. The time of Adam's sin would indeed be very much relevant, because that is when countdown would've begun.

The age of Adam at the time of sin is important, because we would need to subtract 33yrs from the time of his creation, in order to know the year when Adam sinned and when the Devil would've been give 6,000yrs to prove his claims.
Since Adam was created to live forever, he really didn't have an age. Plus, he was created fully grown, so any comparison to Jesus chronologically is irrelevant IMHO. I'm not interested in debating his age anymore.

I think you're straining the gnat on this point.
 
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