Why did the Watchtower's 1975 prediction, fail? (The end of the 6,000yr rule of man in 2030?)

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Carl said:
Since Adam was created to live forever, he really didn't have an age. Plus, he was created fully grown, so any comparison to Jesus chronologically is irrelevant IMHO. I'm not interested in debating his age anymore.
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He absolutely did have an age. Lol

He certainly had a birth date or time, did he not?

Are you willing to claim that his age officially begun at the time of his sin. Is that when he begun "aging?"
 
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YAMW said:
He absolutely did have an age. Lol

He certainly had a birth date or time, did he not?

Are you willing to claim that his age officially begun at the time of his sin. Is that when he begun "aging?"
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Had Adam not sinned, Jehovah's day of rest would still be going. Therefore, I don't get hung up on Adam's age. Plus, Adam could have lived 1,000 years into Jehovah's rest day. Adam biological clock absolutely started when he sinned.
 
YAMW said:
Robert. How doesn't Adam's sin and rebellion against Jehovah God, have nothing to do with the beginning of man's or Satan's rule?

That is literally what I am referring to.

I'm not talking about the literal sixth creative day. So again, you are the one who are misunderstanding what I wrote.
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I did not misunderstand what you wrote. You did. The beginning of Satan's reign had nothing to do with the start of God's rest day. Jehovah concluded his creative days and commenced his seventh day of rest before the Devil made his move. In fact, the case could be made that Satan intended to use God's announced day of rest against him. Had God destroyed Adam and Eve and created two new humans to fulfill his mandate for them to fill the earth, the Devil would have had grounds for accusing God of breaking his self-imposed sabbath.
 
Carl said:
Had Adam not sinned, Jehovah's day of rest would still be going. Therefore, I don't get hung up on Adam's age. Plus, Adam could have lived 1,000 years into Jehovah's rest day. Adam biological clock absolutely started when he sinned.
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Adam had a lifespan - a length of time that of which a person exists.

The span of Adam's existence of course did not start when he had sinned against Jehovah God, now did it? Of course not.

But it had started at the very moment that he begun "breathing" and thus, begun existing.

Therefore. The span of Adam's existence from the moment that he begun breathing, til the time of his sin. Would've been a span of 33yrs. Which, in sense, would've been his age or "the length of time" that of which he would've been in existence when he sinned.

Is that better?
 
YAMW said:
Adam had a lifespan - a length of time that of which a person exists.

The span of Adam's existence of course did not start when he had sinned against Jehovah God, now did it? Of course not.

But it had started at the very moment that he begun "breathing" and thus, begun existing.

Therefore. The span of Adam's existence from the moment that he begun breathing, til the time of his sin. Would've been a span of 33yrs. Which, in sense, would've been his age or "the length of time" that of which he would've been in existence.

Is that better?
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I was referring to his aging process, which didn't begin until he sinned. Had he not sinned, he would still look the same as the day he was created. Since Jehovah created him to live forever, time in an aging sense didn't exist until after he sinned... so he was ageless. Again, talking about his age is a distraction from an otherwise interesting discussion. Can we please leave the weeds and get back on the fairway?
 
Carl said:
I was referring to his aging process, which didn't begin until he sinned. Had he not sinned, he would still look the same as the day he was created. Since Jehovah created him to live forever, time in an aging sense didn't exist until after he sinned... so he was ageless. Again, talking about his age is a distraction from an otherwise interesting discussion. Can we please leave the weeds and get back on the fairway?
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The age of a person is calculated by the motion of the sun over the course of a year, Carl.

You do understand that, right?
 
YAMW said:
The age of a person is calculated by the motion of the sun over the course of a year, Carl.

You do understand that, right?
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I've tried to be balanced in this debate, I'm not talking about his age anymore.
 
YAMW said:
Of course. I am certain that the vast majority here are very familiar with the Watchtower's failed prediction or in their view - "an assumption," regarding the year of 1975.

In this thread. I intend and seek to show and to reveal two particular miscalculations or errors that of which I and some others currently believe, had led to the Watchtower's misunderstandings. But, before I continue. It must be noted and understood. That although the Watchtower's prediction has indeed been proven faulty, there is however one aspect it all that remains to be true.

The Watchtower, at that time, had believed and understood that there was a 7,000-yr plan or timeline that was currently in place. Well, I too certainly believe that to be the case.

Of course. It is no secret that Adam's and Eve's "fall into sin," had completely spoiled and ruined the initial 7days of creation. However, despite the first couple's mishap. Jehovah God, in his endeavor to restore the 7days of creation and his initial purpose for the Earth, has allowed 7,000yrs to repair man's error.

The 7,000yr plan of Jehovah God, I believe, has been pictured within a timeline of a single week, 7 symbolic "days" in total. Essentially. Each day out of that symbolic week represents a single 1,000yr time period. The first 6 symbolic "days" is of course a representation of the 6,000yrs that mankind has been given and allowed to self-governance themselves, under man's and Satan's rule.

This too is seen within the Law of Moses where it is explained that man must "labor" for 6 days in total. - Exodus 20:9-11, Deuteronomy 5:13

Interestingly. In Colossians 2:17, Christians are therefore reminded by the Apostle Paul that the Law was a "shadow of things to come" or in other words, had mirrored something much greater. -Hebrew 8:5. And for similar reasons, that has been explained above.

Nonetheless. With that being explained.

There are a couple of reasons as to why the Watchtower was incorrect in their calculations and in their prediction.

The Watchtower's first error, I believe, was their proposed erroneous calculation of the year of the World's and Adam's creation. According to God's people, the creation of the first man Adam, had supposedly dated back to 4,026BC. This particular date, in comparison to what was once widely accepted, is 22yrs further in the past or two decades more than what the James Ussher's figure(the more accurate chronological calculation I believe), had anticipated.

This means that the Watchtower's proposed "timeline" is both inaccurate and slightly off and of course, that shouldn't truly be too surprising to anyone here. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968324 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102009479

Now, because the Watchtower's calculation and timeline is slightly inaccurate. This of course had led to a plethora of failed expectations and predictions in the past, including and especially the years of "1914" and "1975." According to God's people, the year of 1975 was supposed to mark "the end of the 6,000yr creation of man or the period of man’s existence."

However to no surprise. Similarly to what had occurred in 1914, 1925 and in the year of 1975. All expectations were entirely unmet and were thus, proven untrue.

The Watchtower's understanding was that, 4,026BC+6000yrs had equaled to the year of 1975CE. In that, perhaps they were confident that something significant was destined to occur. In one of their articles, even. The Watchtower had asserted that James Ussher's chronological couldn't have been correct since "the 6,000yr creation of man would have ended in the year of 1997," according to Ussher's chronology. To them, it just had seemed too unreasonable to consider(for obvious reasons).

However. Truthfully, there has always been a major issue with their interpretation and calculation. In that. Not only did the Watchtower base their prediction on their erroneous and miscalculated year of Adam's creation in 4,026BC.

But, most importantly. God's people did not take into account that the 6,000yrs should not have been merely counted from the year of Adam's creation. But, that the 6,000yrs must be counted from the year that Adam had sinned and rebelled against Jehovah God. It is within that particular year of Adam's sin, that the 6,000yr rule of man had officially begun and when that clock had officially begun ticking.

So, the question should have been. How old was the first man Adam was when he had first sinned against the Creator?

Well. Surely, a reasoning individual who is seeking the answer to such a question, could perhaps conclude that the first man Adam would've had to have been 33yrs of age at the time of his sin.

How so?

Well, according to the scriptures. Christ, as the second Adam(who had died at the age of 33), had to live a corresponding life to that of the first-man Adam. The corresponding ransom of the second Adam would've thus included being of the same age as that first perfect human soul - the age, that first human soul would've been when he forfeited his perfect human life through sin.

Thus. Could it be that the Christ's death at the age of 33, signifies that the first man Adam had sinned at age 33 and therefore begun "dying(deteriorating)" at the exact age of 33?

Or

Could it be that the age of Christ, who had forfeited his perfect human life for mankind's sins at age 33, represents the age that the first-man Adam would've had to have been, when he had forfeited his perfect human life and that of his offspring through sin?

Well. I have no doubt that this is indeed the case.

With that said. Unfortunately for the Watchtower Society, their erroneous date of 4,026BC is proven wrong by simply counting 33yrs from 4,026BC. Which would then bring us to the year, 3,993BC - the year that Adam would've supposedly had sinned or when man's rule would've officially begun(if their timeline was indeed correct).

Futhermore. Counting 6,000yrs from 3,993BC would then bring us to the year of 2008CE. A year that was certainly insignificant at least, biblically.


But, what about the creation date of 4,004BC?

Again. If Adam was indeed created in 4,004BC and but had later sinned and rejected Jehovah's sovereignty at the age of 33. Then. That would of course bring us to the year of 3971 BCE.

Counting 6,000yrs from that year(3,971BC), would then bring us to the year of 2030CE. - That is, 2,000yrs after Christ had "returned to his place."

-Hosea 5:15, 6:2

Question is. Will the anointed ones be resurrected, revived and be healed "two days" after the Christ had returned to his place in 30CE, as Hosea 6:2 foretells?

I certainly believe so, and so should you.

In conclusion. "Have we learned nothing from the 1975 fiasco?"

Perhaps so, @Nomex. Perhaps, we all just did.
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I don't see any good reason to assume there is a definitive 7000 year timeline to discern. The Bible warns against undue speculation about the timing of significant events. When Jesus was asked about the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel, he explicitly stated: "It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction" (Acts 1:7). This shows that even the apostles, who were chosen by Christ himself, were not granted insight into Jehovah's timetable. If Jesus directed his closest followers not to concern themselves with setting dates, we should adopt the same humble attitude.

Furthermore, Jesus emphasized vigilance and faithfulness over speculation when he said: "Keep on the watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming" (Matthew 24:42). The repeated theme of not knowing underscores the futility of trying to determine specific dates. Instead of being preoccupied with timelines, Jesus directed his followers to stay alert and focus on their spiritual responsibilities.

The apostle Paul also warned against overreaching conclusions. Writing to the Thessalonians, he urged them not to be quickly shaken or alarmed by claims that the day of Jehovah was imminent (2 Thessalonians 2:2). By pointing out the need for events to unfold according to God’s arrangement, Paul showed that attempting to predict divine actions can lead to confusion and disappointment.

Jehovah’s Word provides ample examples of faithful servants who waited patiently for His promises without attempting to pinpoint specific dates. Abraham, for instance, was promised a son but waited decades before Isaac was born (Genesis 21:2). Similarly, Noah and his family faithfully built the ark over many years, trusting that Jehovah’s timing was perfect (Genesis 6:22). In neither case did these faithful ones demand or speculate about a timeline; rather, they demonstrated their trust in Jehovah by focusing on obedience and faith.

Jehovah has always emphasized the importance of trusting Him, not our own calculations or interpretations. Proverbs 3:5 reminds us: "Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding." Speculating about dates can lead to misplaced hope or spiritual harm, as it shifts focus away from cultivating a close relationship with Jehovah and doing His will.

While we may be tempted to look for patterns or timelines in prophecy, the Bible consistently redirects our attention to the qualities Jehovah desires in His people. Micah 6:8 sums it up beautifully: "What is Jehovah requiring of you? Only to exercise justice, to cherish loyalty, and to walk in modesty with your God." Modesty includes recognizing our human limitations and refraining from presuming to know what Jehovah has kept within His jurisdiction.

In conclusion, instead of being drawn into debates or speculations about dates, let us focus on faithfulness and vigilance. As Jesus reminded his disciples, "Happy is that slave whom his master, on coming, finds doing so" (Matthew 24:46). By continuing to obey Jehovah, cultivate a Christlike personality, and preach the good news, we ensure that we are prepared for whatever Jehovah has in store, regardless of when it occurs. True faith is shown not by attempting to decipher Jehovah’s timing but by wholeheartedly trusting in His perfect wisdom and purpose.
 
Hello, I will tell you what I think about this
Jesus said that the "day and hour" is not known by anyone, not even by Himself
Can we calculate the date of the end with the same scriptures that did not allow Jesus to discern the day and hour?
If we did, we would surpass Jesus Christ himself
In fact, there is a factor that has not been considered here
Our Bibles are based on the Masoretic text
In Jesus' time, the Septuagint was used
What is the difference?
The years in the Septuagint are different in the Genesis account in the Septuagint
In fact, according to the Septuagint, the Israelites were in Egypt for more than 400 years and not just over 200 years as can be deduced from the Masoretic text
The Jews changed the years as many scholars have discovered to relate Melchizedek with Shem.
These modifications and others are in the Masoretic text that we and most Western Bibles have.
The Septuagint is more reliable in many aspects because the Greek scriptures quote from them.
According to the Septuagint, 7,500 years have already passed since the creation of Adam.
Here is an analysis

Why the Greek Septuagint? — 2001 Translation of the Bible

(none)
2001translation.org 2001translation.org

This makes it clear then that since there is a discrepancy in dates between the texts, nothing can be calculated.

Of course, Saturday represents the millennial reign, but the 6 days of the week represent the entire period of darkness and slavery of humanity.
That period does not mean that it is exactly 6000 years, but that it is comparatively longer than the thousand-year reign.
If it were not so, Jesus Christ would have known the date of the end or at least would have encouraged people to discover it.
Why would he discourage people from calculating the date if it could be calculated?
 
YAMW said:
Adam had a lifespan - a length of time that of which a person exists.

The span of Adam's existence of course did not start when he had sinned against Jehovah God, now did it? Of course not.

But it had started at the very moment that he begun "breathing" and thus, begun existing.

Therefore. The span of Adam's existence from the moment that he begun breathing, til the time of his sin. Would've been a span of 33yrs. Which, in sense, would've been his age or "the length of time" that of which he would've been in existence when he sinned.

Is that better?
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Cristo, you are done here...again. What is this, like the third or fourth time I have bounced you? I have lost track.
 
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