Would you like to be anointed?

Joel said:
Look at it another way: would you like to live in times when Jesus was on Earth? That time is gone, but today's generation is living in time when the number of Jesus' brothers is to be soon finalized...and those whose hope is to live forever on Earth have unique opportunity...!
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Our desire should be to worship Jehovah whole souled and to keep on the watch. Those who are for eternal heavenly life, and those who are for eternal earthly life will be for Jehovah to decide. It is his jurisdiction.
 
Paul appears to indicate that not all the anointed will suffer death
Does 1Thessalonians 4:15 indicates that some anointed will remain and be alive at the return of Christ?
1 Corinthians 15:51 shows the change needed from mortal to spirit immortality
so would it be fair to say 4 hopes
the earthy resurrection
passing through the GT into the earthly kingdom and never having to die
being anointed and dying and a hope in the first resurrection
being anointed and alive at the return of Christ and being "changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" and being caught up with the 1st resurrection anointed
how does that fit with the rev account of the death of the 2 witnesses rev11 : 7?
is it possible when Paul talks about some not sleeping in death he is refering to death followed by an immediate resurrection?
 
JTK said:
Paul appears to indicate that not all the anointed will suffer death
Does 1Thessalonians 4:15 indicates that some anointed will remain and be alive at the return of Christ?
1 Corinthians 15:51 shows the change needed from mortal to spirit immortality
so would it be fair to say 4 hopes
the earthy resurrection
passing through the GT into the earthly kingdom and never having to die
being anointed and dying and a hope in the first resurrection
being anointed and alive at the return of Christ and being "changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" and being caught up with the 1st resurrection anointed
how does that fit with the rev account of the death of the 2 witnesses rev11 : 7?
is it possible when Paul talks about some not sleeping in death he is refering to death followed by an immediate resurrection?
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There is an earthly hope where the other sheep will wind up living, forever. And there is a heavenly hope, where the anointed will wind up living, forever. So the other two hopes are for where?

And yes all the anointed will need to die before they can gain entry into heaven, since flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven. They must die. Paul said, "....we will not all ( fall asleep ) in death ( as in waiting in the grave ) but we will all be changed" ( switch from a fleshly person to a spirit person in an instant. they will be killed by the wild beast.

Imagine one of the anointed being killed by a person of the wild beast via a shot to the back of the head, Bam/flesh/spirit Nano seconds. They will probably be resurrected to life as a spirit person before the corpse even hits the ground, nano seconds. No falling asleep waiting to be resurrected. They will die but because their resurrection will be instantaneous, ( As you pointed out ) they will literally not "fall asleep in death."
 
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Robert194972 said:
There is an earthly hope where the other sheep will wind up living, forever. And there is a heavenly hope, where the anointed will wind up living, forever. So the other two hopes are for where?
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Hi Robert
yeah i guess hope is the wrong choice of word, i was refering to what Robert said in the video with regard to eternal life and the journey into it
i.e through the GT without having to die and into heaven by the first resurrection but he also mentioned entering paradise via the resurrection of the righteous
so 2 hopes with different routes i guess was my point.
I was speculating that Paul may have been refering to a change from a living mortal being into an immortal spirit being in a moment without death being involved but that does not fit with the anointed having to suffer death as Christ did rev 20:4
rev 11 shows that the 2 witnesses are killed and remain dead three days and then are resurrected and seen by earthly people and then are called to heaven. in other words a resurrection and ascension into heaven that matches that of Christ
just checking my understanding of things
John







 
JTK said:
Hi Robert
yeah i guess hope is the wrong choice of word, i was refering to what Robert said in the video with regard to eternal life and the journey into it
i.e through the GT without having to die and into heaven by the first resurrection but he also mentioned entering paradise via the resurrection of the righteous
so 2 hopes with different routes i guess was my point.
I was speculating that Paul may have been refering to a change from a living mortal being into an immortal spirit being in a moment without death being involved but that does not fit with the anointed having to suffer death as Christ did rev 20:4
rev 11 shows that the 2 witnesses are killed and remain dead three days and then are resurrected and seen by earthly people and then are called to heaven. in other words a resurrection and ascension into heaven that matches that of Christ
just checking my understanding of things
John
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Yeah just a little/lot? confused about the 3 and a half day bit. I can understand the corpses on the ground for 3 and a half days. ( Jesus' parts of 3 days and all ) Rev-11:8, 9. But then gaining entry into heaven after the 3 and a half days? V 11, "the spirit of God entered into them,..." Seems to contradict 1 Cor-15:51, 52, "...we will not all fall asleep in death.....but be changed....in a moment, in the blink of an eye..." Anyway its not that important to me as to how all the bits fit. I don't believe whole souled worship requires it.
 
Joel said:
There is nothing wrong with the question! Some brothers or sisters just honestly would like to be close to Jehovah God, their heavenly Father and to Jesus Christ! But we need to remember, that it is Jehovah God that makes the choosing and inviting. But he is not going to force us to accept the invitation, because he respects out free will! But he might send us an “invitation” (Matthew 28:19), That verse is saying in other words: “Go, make anointed for me…”. How does he do it? First through the anointed brothers or sisters and after with his spirit. For example, Romans 8:14: “For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons.” So, if you enjoy daily the prayers and considering the scriptures, witnessing and having a spiritual conversation, and all kinds of theocratic activities, and being happy and his spirit helps you to overcome all difficulties and you retain the happiness and tranquility and continue in that course daily…However, you must remember the part in the model prayer: “Let your will be done”! In other words, Jehovah knows what is best for all of us! Some have developed very close relationships with their marriage mate, with the family members and friends and like to have them forever! For others, it is up to them to accept the “invitation” from Jehovah, if they receive one. How do they do it? By partaking at the Memorial! And even after that when they examine themselves to see if they retain that happy spirit, love, and calmness of relationship with Jehovah continually, it will be an indication that Jehovah is happy with our accepting his invitation…
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How was your anointing experience Joel?
 
BibleStudent said:
The scripture that you quoted made me wonder if there was also an earthly hope back during the apostles time.
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That is an interesting contemplation, because God's people of old only ever had the hope of being resurrected here on earth, and due to the nature of there only ever being a very small number of people destined for heaven, while the vast majority would continue to be slated for life here on earth, it appears especially peculiar that the NT, while implicitly built upon an understanding of this reality, still never concerns itself with the earthly hope, or those aspiring to it, and this state of affairs we would have to acknowledge as being by divine design and purpose, because Christianity apparently, was meant entirely for the collecting and refining of the chosen ones, a job the WT seems to have abandoned early on in its career.

But that begs the question of what to make of the vast number of followers of Christ who do not identify with going to heaven, and how to view them?

I can't help but see them as identical with God's nominal people of old, the good, bad and ugly of those who would receive life here on earth, to the extent that they are found to be redeemable, and who therefore correspond to the euphemistic description of 'Jerusalem,' that will be trampled into desolation in order to be restored again after Christ's coming for Armageddon.

So in short: yes, there was a continuation of the earthly hope after the coming of Jesus, but it was only pursued by those who continued as Jews under the then becoming obsolete Mosaic covenant, which makes me think of JWs and other 'Christians' as neo-mosaic, rather than truly Christian.

'Christian' simply means 'anointed,' so that non-anointed followers of Christ would want to distance themselves from all things Mosaic, which pretty much amounts to a disavowing of Christ ever since He went to heaven 2000 years ago.

The WT used to see the non-anointed as 'companions of Jehovah's witnesses,' which is not a bad way of viewing things, if with JWs we mean faithful anointed ones who have rejected the lies and left the WT.
 
Robert194972 said:
No falling asleep waiting to be resurrected. They will die but because their resurrection will be instantaneous, ( As you pointed out ) they will literally not "fall asleep in death."
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The instantaneousness between loss and regaining of consciousness as experienced by
anyone resurrected - regardless of whether to heaven or earth - is not the subject matter of Paul's point, but the fact that there will be anointed ones in the flesh here on earth, who will see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven, at which point they are gathered, not to be killed by the beast, but to get caught up by Jesus to join Him on the clouds in power and great glory.
 
Posstot said:
The instantaneousness between loss and regaining of consciousness as experienced by
anyone resurrected - regardless of whether to heaven or earth - is not the subject matter of Paul's point, but the fact that there will be anointed ones in the flesh here on earth, who will see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven, at which point they are gathered, not to be killed by the beast, but to get caught up by Jesus to join Him on the clouds in power and great glory.
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Little scroll in Revelation​

Can we know what is in it? Yes, we can, based on the inspired words of king Solomon: “ What has been is what will be, And what has been done will be done again; There is nothing new under the sun.” - Ecclesiastes 1:9.
The speech of Stephen in Acts 6-7 contains the basic information including him seen Jesus and his face shining like an angel (compare with Daniel 12:3). Besides, Stephen, apostle John and Daniel represent the anointed in the last days!
 
Posstot said:
The instantaneousness between loss and regaining of consciousness as experienced by
anyone resurrected - regardless of whether to heaven or earth - is not the subject matter of Paul's point, but the fact that there will be anointed ones in the flesh here on earth, who will see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven, at which point they are gathered, not to be killed by the beast, but to get caught up by Jesus to join Him on the clouds in power and great glory.
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Joel explained it pretty well. But I need to harp on. No anointed can gain entry into heaven without they die. The chosen ones do see Jesus but that is before they start their final assignment.
 
Robert194972 said:
Joel explained it pretty well. But I need to harp on. No anointed can gain entry into heaven without they die. The chosen ones do see Jesus but that is before they start their final assignment.
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True, I agree. However, the account of Stephen being stoned to death proves that point as well. By the way the account about Stephen is, I believe, complete with all the basic features of what might be contained in the "little scroll" in the book of Revelation...
 
Joel said:
True, I agree. However, the account of Stephen being stoned to death proves that point as well. By the way the account about Stephen is, I believe, complete with all the basic features of what might be contained in the "little scroll" in the book of Revelation...
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Yeah which have not been opened yet.
 
Joel said:
No, but Stephen gives us a gist of what they might contain...in harmony with Daniel 11:44...:)
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Dan-11:44, Puts me in mind of Rev-9:3-11. Reports by the two witnesses gets TKOTN's back up. Reports that Christ is here along with a message of doom for the nations, that they will hear of whether they like it or not.
 
Robert194972 said:
Dan-11:44, Puts me in mind of Rev-9:3-11. Reports by the two witnesses gets TKOTN's back up. Reports that Christ is here along with a message of doom for the nations, that they will hear of whether they like it or not.
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Thank you so much! I can see that it ties up together just fine...anointed sealed and glorified brothers of Christ in their final witness...to the kings (pharisees) and rulers of the world, of the earth...before they are all executed!
 
Joel said:

Little scroll in Revelation​

Can we know what is in it? Yes, we can, based on the inspired words of king Solomon: “ What has been is what will be, And what has been done will be done again; There is nothing new under the sun.” - Ecclesiastes 1:9.
The speech of Stephen in Acts 6-7 contains the basic information including him seen Jesus and his face shining like an angel (compare with Daniel 12:3). Besides, Stephen, apostle John and Daniel represent the anointed in the last days!
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Interesting; there is also the exception of the new creation, which was hidden from way before Solomon; yeah, Stephen really lets fly; I want to give it to them too, when my time comes. ;)
 
Posstot said:
Interesting; there is also the exception of the new creation, which was hidden from way before Solomon; yeah, Stephen really lets fly; I want to give it to them too, when my time comes. ;)
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I am sure you will...:-)
 
Robert194972 said:
Joel explained it pretty well. But I need to harp on. No anointed can gain entry into heaven without they die. The chosen ones do see Jesus but that is before they start their final assignment.
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I assume you refer to Mat 24:30 here, when 'all the tribes of the earth will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven;' so how can the anointed bear witness to something that everybody has just become an eye witness of themselves?

Harp away, brother, happy harping.

Where there are 'two or three harping in His name, Jesus might show up with a clarinet.' ;)
 
Posstot said:
I assume you refer to Mat 24:30 here, when 'all the tribes of the earth will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven;' so how can the anointed bear witness to something that everybody has just become an eye witness of themselves?

Harp away, brother, happy harping.

Where there are 'two or three harping in His name, Jesus might show up with a clarinet.' ;)
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Interesting question...I believe that the "eagles" in verse 27 or Jesus' anointed brothers will see Jesus, while the rest of mankind will "beat themselves" in lamentation, before the anointed are "gathered" to Jesus in resurrection, after they are killed...much like Stephen being stoned...
 
Posstot said:
I assume you refer to Mat 24:30 here, when 'all the tribes of the earth will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven;' so how can the anointed bear witness to something that everybody has just become an eye witness of themselves?

Harp away, brother, happy harping.

Where there are 'two or three harping in His name, Jesus might show up with a clarinet.' ;)
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I like harping...even while asleep...:-)
 
Joel said:
Interesting question...I believe that the "eagles" in verse 27 or Jesus' anointed brothers will see Jesus, while the rest of mankind will "beat themselves" in lamentation, before the anointed are "gathered" to Jesus in resurrection, after they are killed...much like Stephen being stoned...
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I think that Lu 17:22-24 is key to understanding Christ's return in our day, where instead of drawing parallels between His first and second coming, He actually does the very opposite, namely explaining that while His first coming and departure was a rather quiet affair, His return would be the exact opposite, unmissable by even the most unstudied and disinterested person, like lightning flashing across the sky in sight of all the tribes of the earth, the transfiguration played out for real in front of all mankind.

If Jesus didn't thus come spectacularly and in power and great glory before the world public - and until that time - Satan is able to pull off his imitation show of reviving the seemingly slain beast, to amaze the whole world into worshiping it as the savior of mankind.
 
Posstot said:
I think that Lu 17:22-24 is key to understanding Christ's return in our day, where instead of drawing parallels between His first and second coming, He actually does the very opposite, namely explaining that while His first coming and departure was a rather quiet affair, His return would be the exact opposite, unmissable by even the most unstudied and disinterested person, like lightning flashing across the sky in sight of all the tribes of the earth, the transfiguration played out for real in front of all mankind.

If Jesus didn't thus come spectacularly and in power and great glory before the world public - and until that time - Satan is able to pull off his imitation show of reviving the seemingly slain beast, to amaze the whole world into worshiping it as the savior of mankind.
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Thank you for that reply. I find Luke 17:20, 21 interesting in relation to what we are discussing and what he said to Pharisees: "On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.” Because the world has already been warned by world-wide witnessing...
 
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