WT Legal Department: Are We Disfellowshipped (Removed) or Not?

Jerry&Phyllis

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As most of you are probably aware, it has been over two weeks since we met with the "Appeal Committee" (assuming that is still the proper terminology???) and were, subsequently, disfellowshipped. However, as far as we know, there is yet to be an official announcement, although, the word that we have been disfellowshipped has spread to Florida, Tennessee, North Carolina and Colorado among JW family, friends and even elder bodies. For some reason, my sister, who lives in Tennessee, felt the need to share our original letter with her body of elders. (Go figure). Little did she know that she played right into our hand by helping us put the message out to a broader audience.

Most on the forum are probably not aware that we sent a letter to the chairman of our Appeal Committee as well as the Circuit Overseer requesting a "retrial" for the reasons stated in the letter below. Originally, we had made the decision not to post our response to the Appeal hearing. However, we were only given a 7-day window in which to request an appeal; yet, the Branch allots themselves an undisclosed and apparently unlimited window for the GB/Legal to hand down a response to our request for a retrial. Therefore, in view of the two week communication blackout, we have decided to make our letter and the WT judicial process public to, once again, expose their hypocrisy. (But, who has ever accused them of being just and fair?)

June 26, 2024

XXXXX XXXXX, Circuit Overseer

Subject: Request for Re-trial by a Newly Appointed Appeal Committee

Dear XXXXXX,

Could it be that when a person loses their appreciation for truth, their aversion to lying is commensurately impacted? We have done nothing but tell the truth; nevertheless, we have been disfellowshipped not for anything we have done; simply for what we have said. Yet, the chairman of our appeal committee lied in a judicial hearing which had previously been opened with prayer and apparently no one really cares.

The appeal committee’s decision was rendered in an emotionless, matter of fact manner with no explanation as to the reasons behind the decision….. i.e. "These are the reasons behind our decision" or "this is why we find you guilty". We have repeatedly asked for proof that anything we have stated in our documents is not true.

For the following reasons, we are formally requesting a new Appeal Committee to be appointed to retry our case for the following reasons:

1. Misconduct by one of the judges. As you may or may not be aware, for lack of a better word, a lie was told during the appeal hearing. The untruth was told when the chairman responded to my question, “Are there any more appeal options available to us?”. He replied that there are no additional appeal options available. Clearly, the April 2024 edition of the “Shepherding the Flock” book states otherwise.

10. The appeal committee should not initiate discussion of a further appeal.
However, if the individual persists in believing a serious error in judgment has
occurred, the appeal committee should inform him that he may express his
concern in a letter within seven days
. If he indicates a desire to submit a letter
of appeal, the announcement of disfellowshipping should be delayed. The
appeal committee should submit to the Service Department a brief summary
of the case, the judicial committee’s summary, and the individual’s letter.
No announcement should be made until a reply is received from the Service
Department. The body of elders should be updated on the results of
the appeal hearing.—See 22:19-21.

Since most of the organization’s “secret” books are available on the internet, it’s not difficult to get access to a copy. I have the April 2024 release. Had I not known the answer to the question and, called him out, the untruth would have been allowed to stand unchallenged. How can we expect to receive a fair trial when one of the judges in our hearing is caught in a bald-face lie?

2. Also, if you judge a person guilty, you must have proven that the person is actually guilty. We have asked everyone to prove one statement in our documents as false. No one, including the Appeal Committee has even attempted to do so. If we are guilty of “causing divisions”, then so is Christ Jesus. In fact, Jesus said at Matthew 10:35 . . .For I came to cause division. . . which only resulted from Jesus stating “the truth”.

We are not submitting an appeal to the Branch because there is absolutely no basis for our having any confidence in that process. What do they care? You are all on the same team. Their only interest in “people like us”, who unabashedly and openly point out the flaws & hypocrisy of the governing body, is to “silence” us at all cost, even resorting to lying and false charges, if necessary. After all, the sheep must be “protected” from anyone who might actually expose them to “truth”.

The Appeal Committee may not be concerned about justice being fairly administered but you can be certain that there is someone who does care.

(Deuteronomy 16:18-20) . . .“You should set judges and officers for yourself inside all your gates that Jehovah your God is giving you by your tribes, and they must judge the people with righteous judgment. 19 You must not pervert judgment. You must not be partial or accept a bribe, for the bribe blinds the eyes of wise ones and distorts the words of righteous ones. 20 Justice—justice you should pursue, in order that you may keep alive. . .

(Amos 5:7) . . .O YOU who are turning justice into mere wormwood, and the ones who have cast righteousness itself to the earth. . .

(Habakkuk 1:4) 4 Therefore law grows numb, and justice never goes forth. Because the wicked one is surrounding the righteous one, for that reason justice goes forth crooked.


Jehovah is, in no way, bound by the decisions made by the representatives of his earthly organization. However, that is not to imply that those same decisions will not factor into the judgment placed upon those responsible for rendering said decisions. Your judgments neither define us nor do they affect the verdict of our ultimate judgment by God. We eagerly await your response.

Respectfully submitted,



_______________________________
Jerry XXXX



______________________________

Phyllis XXXX

cc: XXXXXXXXXX, Chairman
Service Desk
 
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We have done nothing but tell the truth; nevertheless, we have been disfellowshipped not for anything we have done; simply for what we have said.
Matthew 10:35 . . .For I came to cause division. . . which only resulted from Jesus stating “the truth”.
I think this a perfect time for me to point a couple things out. Back in the early 2000's soon after my wife and I had gotten married my wife had ventured onto so called "Apostate" websites. The reason was because before we got married she had a very bad experience with the Elders in her congregation. She was bitter and justifiably upset by the way these brothers had treated a single sister. She had an "office" for lack of a better description, for her schooling. Yeah, my wife got a degree...oh the terror. Any way, I happened to walk by and over heard her listening to "apostate driven lies." Rather than confront her, I knew that wasn't going to work, I decided to listen to it myself, so that I could "counter" the lies. This was when I first learned of the CSA problem, and probably when I first learned of the UN NGO status. This is when I also first learned of the Elder, William Bowen, (https://silentlambs.org/resignation-letter) To make a long story short, I concluded that the problems were caused by individual congregation Elder bodies rather than a systemic problem from the top down. So I basically dropped the subject and did not revisit it until WT's handling of Covid.

This brings me to an earlier comment you guys mentioned which I forget the specifics now, but it reminded me of this fact. It wasn't so-called "apostate driven lies" that caused me to "leave" it came right from the "horses mouth" and I could no longer make excuses for the GB. I watched their betrayal in real time. Your letter above reminded me of another factoid which happened not long before Covid. Both of my Brother's children have also left WT, but unfortunately they have also "left Jehovah" if you can really call it that. Did they ever really "know Jehovah." Any way, my brother and his wife commented that, "once they get on the internet, it's all over with." My wife and I both, talked about that statement after they left, and has continued to be a subject for discussion. It's what has inspired my insight about what building your faith on the rock mass really means. And it is very revealing of the sub-conscience mind of deeply entrenched brain washed JW's. Their faith is so fragile, they are certain that any challenge to it will result in the crumbling their faith. It's really a disturbing realization. And "crumbling" is the perfect verb. When you think of something "crumbling" it's very brittle, the slightest touch, and it "crumbles."

Which leads me to my younger brother. He was an elder for many years. He was removed a few years ago, but Covid opened his eyes too, but he's stuck where I was, he's blaming everything wrong on everyone except the GB! He['s making excuses for them in the same way I did for so many years.

In any case. the number one enemy of the GB and WT is the truth. This of course is the real reason they want us shut up. It's not because of lies. Like I said, the number one enemy of the lie is the truth, therefore the TRUTH HAS TO BE SILENCED. Likewise just like Jehovah's Origination in the first century, the only defense to the truth is to silence it, therefore they killed Jesus, and today they can't literally kill you, but they do the next best thing. Oh, and make no mistake, if they could stone you to death, a lot of us would already be literally dead! Let that sink in. And in too many cases WT managed to accomplish a kind of "stoning" when the disfellowshipped commit suicide. Oh I am sorry, I mean the "removed." Hard to keep up with "Jehovah's Chariot" it changes so much. (Whatever happened to "Jehovah never changes?")

I keep saying this, and I am going to keep saying it. WT and the GB act exactly like the demonic left. They also hate the truth, and that's why they want to end "free speech."

After all, the sheep must be “protected” from anyone who might actually expose them to “truth”.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Protect that "white washed wall" at all cost, lest it crumble from the rain storm. Matt. 7: 27 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”
 
And it is very revealing of the sub-conscience mind of deeply entrenched brain washed JW's. Their faith is so fragile, they are certain that any challenge to it will result in the crumbling their faith. It's really a disturbing realization. And "crumbling" is the perfect verb. When you think of something "crumbling" it's very brittle, the slightest touch, and it "crumbles."
Right on, Nomex!
Protect the sheep at all cost and will also add…..Protect their brand which is getting hammered.

You nailed it regarding the response we have gotten from virtually everyone which, initially, surprised us. We thought there would be some JW’s whom we previously viewed as reasonable, that would, at least, engage in conversation but ,wow, were we wrong! Even when the points are presented in simplistic terms, they just refuse to listen and are determined not to let their minds go there. Somewhat like trying to reason with a die-hard trinitarian.
 
Somewhat like trying to reason with a die-hard trinitarian.
It's exactly like that. They don't let the truth get in the way of their feelings, and that's what it all boils down to is "feelings." If they acknowledge they are wrong, boy does that force you to face these "feelings" that everyone of us here know all too well. The feelings related to the realization that you have been lied to, but more importantly, that you believed it. And believe it for how long? Decades? Half a century? But not only that, their feelings prevent them from being able to separate the truth from the lie, and see the difference. I can attest to the fact that one of the things that stopped me from seeing the "truth" was because I knew some of what they teach IS the truth. It takes courage to sift through the lies and to be able to cling to the portion that is true. Most cannot do that, and we have the testimony of the vast majority of Ex-JW's that this fact is also true. Most throw out the baby with the bath water.

But it all comes down to deeply entrenched beliefs that are attached to peoples emotions. Like Trinitarians, they search out the Bible looking for evidence of something they already believe rather than searching out the scriptures to find out what the Bible really teaches. A prime example is JW's two witness rule that they apply to CSA and ignore the fact that the Bible actually has provisions for rape allegations were there is NO second witness. Something I had no idea was in there until I read it from RK! Or rather RK called my attention to the fact that that's actually in the Bible. So WT, rather than admit they are wrong according to the Bible, they double down on their policy which again, is an emotional reaction to the problem. It takes humility to admit you are wrong, that that is the other piece of this puzzle. Unfortunately, so many of our brothers and sisters are void of any humility.
 
Right on, Nomex!
Protect the sheep at all cost and will also add…..Protect their brand which is getting hammered.

You nailed it regarding the response we have gotten from virtually everyone which, initially, surprised us. We thought there would be some JW’s whom we previously viewed as reasonable, that would, at least, engage in conversation but ,wow, were we wrong! Even when the points are presented in simplistic terms, they just refuse to listen and are determined not to let their minds go there. Somewhat like trying to reason with a die-hard trinitarian.
Haha! A die hard trinitarian! Met a few of those in my time in the ministry 😆 I do understand why they dig their heels in though cos as soon as you separate Jesus from God and realise they're two separate entities then you have to learn about God having a name and being Jesus's father, and as far as I know, there's only one group of people who talk in depth about Jesus's father..
 
It's exactly like that. They don't let the truth get in the way of their feelings, and that's what it all boils down to is "feelings." If they acknowledge they are wrong, boy does that force you to face these "feelings" that everyone of us here know all too well. The feelings related to the realization that you have been lied to, but more importantly, that you believed it. And believe it for how long? Decades? Half a century? But not only that, their feelings prevent them from being able to separate the truth from the lie, and see the difference. I can attest to the fact that one of the things that stopped me from seeing the "truth" was because I knew some of what they teach IS the truth. It takes courage to sift through the lies and to be able to cling to the portion that is true. Most cannot do that, and we have the testimony of the vast majority of Ex-JW's that this fact is also true. Most throw out the baby with the bath water.

But it all comes down to deeply entrenched beliefs that are attached to peoples emotions. Like Trinitarians, they search out the Bible looking for evidence of something they already believe rather than searching out the scriptures to find out what the Bible really teaches. A prime example is JW's two witness rule that they apply to CSA and ignore the fact that the Bible actually has provisions for rape allegations were there is NO second witness. Something I had no idea was in there until I read it from RK! Or rather RK called my attention to the fact that that's actually in the Bible. So WT, rather than admit they are wrong according to the Bible, they double down on their policy which again, is an emotional reaction to the problem. It takes humility to admit you are wrong, that that is the other piece of this puzzle. Unfortunately, so many of our brothers and sisters are void of any humility.
Yet we are the ones accused of lacking humility 🥺 you're right about most people being concerned about their "feelings" If they cared more about Jehovah's feelings instead of their own then they'd learn a lot more truth
 
Right on, Nomex!
Protect the sheep at all cost and will also add…..Protect their brand which is getting hammered.

You nailed it regarding the response we have gotten from virtually everyone which, initially, surprised us. We thought there would be some JW’s whom we previously viewed as reasonable, that would, at least, engage in conversation but ,wow, were we wrong! Even when the points are presented in simplistic terms, they just refuse to listen and are determined not to let their minds go there. Somewhat like trying to reason with a die-hard trinitarian.

At least you two have each other during this hard time. It gets quite lonely when we lose all our friends and family who are still inside the delusion. I miss them very much. I saw an old friend at Costco the other day, and they shared a half smile with me but immediately looked away so that I would not walk up to them. I understand, I used to do it to when I was still a JW, but I would say hi to the individual even though we weren't supposed to.
 
And in too many cases WT managed to accomplish a kind of "stoning" when the disfellowshipped commit suicide. Oh I am sorry, I mean the "removed." Hard to keep up with "Jehovah's Chariot" it changes so much. (Whatever happened to "Jehovah never changes?")
Speaking of keeping up with “Jehovah’s Chariot” and changes, they need to stop referring to themselves as having the “truth” or being in the “truth.” This organization represents anything but the truth. They lie like their father, the Devil.
 
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Wow! Very powerful. But at least you were not disfellowshipped. You were only "removed." :rolleyes:
Why the change in terminology......Could it possibly be a legal maneuver??? Nah, WT wouldn't do something like that!:D

The circuit overseer is visiting our congregation this week.
Wonder if he will ever be able to visit our congregation without thinking of the interchange we had with him at his apartment in Springfield?
But, one thing is for sure, our fondest memory of him will always be a vision of him virtually in a trot, scurrying to get away as if he were in fear. :ROFLMAO:

Appreciate the updated background. Easier on the eyes. Thanks.
 
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Why the change in terminology......Could it possibly be a legal maneuver??? Nah, WT wouldn't do something like that!:D

The circuit overseer is visiting our congregation this week.
Wonder if he will ever be able to visit our congregation without thinking of the interchange we had with him at his apartment in Springfield?
But, one thing is for sure, our fondest memory of him will always be a vision of him virtually in a trot, scurrying to get away as if he were in fear. :ROFLMAO:
Having read your letter, and understood watchtowers intransigence, I feel a great silence descending upon the matter. Perhaps no announcement will be made at all. How dare they find you guilty with no evidence!
 
Why the change in terminology......Could it possibly be a legal maneuver??? Nah, WT wouldn't do something like that!:D

The circuit overseer is visiting our congregation this week.
Wonder if he will ever be able to visit our congregation without thinking of the interchange we had with him at his apartment in Springfield?
But, one thing is for sure, our fondest memory of him will always be a vision of him virtually in a trot, scurrying to get away as if he were in fear. :ROFLMAO:

Appreciate the updated background. Easier on the eyes. Thanks.
Well you did your part of planting seeds let's hope it falls on good soil.

1 Corinthians3:​

6 I planted,+ A·polʹlos watered,+ but God kept making [it] grow;+
 

@Watchtower​

John3:​

19 Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light+ has come into the world+ but men have loved the darkness rather than the light,+ for their works were wicked. 20 For he that practices vile things+ hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved.+ 21 But he that does what is true comes to the light,+ in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”

Job 24:13

13 As for them, they proved to be among the rebels against light;aThey did not recognize its ways,And they did not dwell in its roadways.

Isaiah 5:20

20 Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good,a those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!b

John 12:48

48 He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The worda that I have spoken is what will judge him in the last day;
 
Well you did your part of planting seeds let's hope it falls on good soil.
I feel a great silence descending upon the matter. Perhaps no announcement will be made at all.
We know someone about to be removed: Rev12:12! When he realises he has been thrown down he will come after us vs13
That's exactly right, Mick. At that point, all of us will become his targets.

Maybe this week will bring the matter to a conclusion one way or the other.🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️

Let's hope so. As we've said before. That's truly what this has been all about.....to expose WT hypocrisy and hopefully help others to, at least, begin to see the cracks in the organization and the "deluding influence" that exists within.
 
That's exactly right, Mick. At that point, all of us will become his targets.

Maybe this week will bring the matter to a conclusion one way or the other.🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️

Let's hope so. As we've said before. That's truly what this has been all about.....to expose WT hypocrisy and hopefully help others to, at least, begin to see the cracks in the organization and the "deluding influence" that exists within.
My hopes are the same as yours lovely J&P
 

Excerpted from-Where is the Watchtower’s humility?​

Wednesday, October 8​

Humble yourself.—Prov. 6:3.
To apologize is difficult for most people. However, servants of God cultivate the spirit of a lesser one by admitting their mistakes and asking for forgiveness. They are also ready to forgive others for their transgressions. Whereas pride fosters division and contention, forgiveness promotes peace within the congregation. We may need to ‘humble ourselves’ by sincerely apologizing to another person if we are unable to honor an agreement because of circumstances beyond our control. Although he may be able to assign a measure of blame to the other party, the humble Christian concerns himself with his own failings and is willing to admit them. (Prov. 6:1-5) How grateful we are for the Scriptural encouragement to cultivate the spirit of a lesser one!—Luke 9:48. w1211/15 3:17-19
It is good that the Watchtower exhorts Jehovah’s Witnesses to be humble. Humility is a quality that God greatly values. But what about the Watchtower corporation? As an organization does it practice what it preaches? Sadly, there is no evidence to even suggest that it does. Take the matter of offering a simple apology. Has the Watchtower Society ever apologized for anything? For example, untold hundreds of thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses and interested persons have been stumbled by the Watchtower’s dealings and doctrinal changes. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/where-humility/
 

Excerpted from-Where is the Watchtower’s humility?​

Wednesday, October 8​

Humble yourself.—Prov. 6:3.

It is good that the Watchtower exhorts Jehovah’s Witnesses to be humble. Humility is a quality that God greatly values. But what about the Watchtower corporation? As an organization does it practice what it preaches? Sadly, there is no evidence to even suggest that it does. Take the matter of offering a simple apology. Has the Watchtower Society ever apologized for anything? For example, untold hundreds of thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses and interested persons have been stumbled by the Watchtower’s dealings and doctrinal changes. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/where-humility/
I believe that's the requisite of those gathered here the humility and honesty to admit to our sins and the gratefulness of Christ's blood the guilt offering on our behalf to Jehovah?
 
I believe that's the requisite of those gathered here the humility and honesty to admit to our sins and the gratefulness of Christ's blood the guilt offering on our behalf to Jehovah?
Pr3....Happy is the man that has found wisdom and the man that gets discernment.......Length of days is in it's right hand there are riches and glory.it's ways are ways of pleasantness and all its roadways are peace......vs18 It is a tree of life to those taking hold of it and those keeping fast of it are to be called happy"
 
We know that the sea is the unstable representation of mankind and the earth is the stable and it is the earth that comes to our help described in vs16 of Rev12...How that works out I hope we all here live to see!

Scriptures for thought.​

Revelation12:​

15 And the serpent disgorged water+ like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river.

Psalm 18:4

4 The ropes of death encircled me;aFlash floods of good-for-nothing [men]* also kept terrifying me.b

Isaiah 17:12

12 Ha for the commotion of many peoples, who are boisterous as with the boisterousness of the seas! And for the noise of national groups, who make a din just like the noise of mighty waters!a

Matthew 24:9

9 “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulationa and will killb YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatredc by all the nations on account of my name.d

Mark 13:20

20 In fact, unless Jehovah*a had cut short the days, no flesh would be saved. But on account of the chosenb ones whom he has chosenc he has cut short the days.d

Acts 1:8

8 but YOU will receive powera when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses*b of me both in Jerusalemc and in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·ad and to the most distant part* of the earth.”e

 
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