Dumb or Evil??

BagdadBill said:
I don't expect them to be perfect but I do expect them to repent.
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I get so tired of hearing that same old line, “they’re not perfect“ that’s what the world says and, no, we know they’re not perfect and neither are we. But you don’t have to be perfect to be honest, do you? We can use that old excuse for them all we want to….it doesn’t excuse them from wrongdoing.
 
Sutterhome said:
Was discussing with my wife last week.

1)Do you think the GB just followed along with CDC/MSM regarding forced vaccinations? Honestly not knowing about the poison being injected.

Or

2)They were incented to do so and are in on it??

I vote #2
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luke 12 45-48 .. to me it seems like a combo.. i think there are some very bad individuals who have managed to maneuver power to themselves.. then when the individuals who are meek and naive and obediant are being stupid it really goes fast downhill.. if i learned anything in life its that things are rarely clearcut black/white. remember that the scripture of the year when the pandemic started.. isaiah 30:15.. but only the first half of the verse.. the last sentence was left out but to me it seems as if it were stating exactly what happened. if only they had waited on Jehovah to make things clear but alas they didnt want to.
 
BagdadBill said:
So far the consensus is that the governing body is number two. In more ways that one I am sure. I didn't watch much of the GB videos but I did see David Splane splain to us that maybe the jabby jab is from Jehovah. He knew better than that. It's one thing to show spiritual concern for the congregation. It's another to get deeply involved in someone's surgery because of the blood issue but then another to use undue influence to coerce us to take an untested and unproven injection using a technology that has done nothing but kill so far.
There is a point where they crossed over into the knowledge of what they were doing and saying. I keep thinking about the pastor in Canada that was arrested for holding Sunday service. He put his faith in God. What did the GB do?
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i agree. What Splane did was intentional. He spoke directly for Jehovah and there was zero neutrality. These men are not stupid so i have to vote #2.
 
Ms_ladyblue said:
I get so tired of hearing that same old line, “they’re not perfect“ that’s what the world says and, no, we know they’re not perfect and neither are we. But you don’t have to be perfect to be honest, do you? We can use that old excuse for them all we want to….it doesn’t excuse them from wrongdoing.
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i agree 100%. i get tired of hearing that imperfect excuse also. Everything is always pushed on the " imperfect" excuse.
 
Soul Sage said:
I don't think the GB made that decision though I can be wrong. They probably went by the expertise of one of their doctors at Bethel who had connections within pharmacy and a local mayor or politician who lied to their faces of it being safe and effective and became some people are so naive to those that have an evil mind, they can't imagine that level of evil thinking. They be too scared to be called a conspiracy theorists.
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They couldn't have been called anything if they'd just kept out of the injections altogether and just encouraged us by talking about the Bible and Jehovah and Jesus and the New World. They could have even blatantly stated " we're very sorry brothers and sisters, but as individuals, and as a religious organisation, we really are not qualified to comment on medical matters and we can not accept responsibility of any consequences that may come about through giving you information that may or may not be true or suitable. Just like they've ALWAYS said pre plandemic. Just like they stated in their medical "updated T's & C's" they put on the Library App, once everyone had taken several injections. Just like Jeffrey Winder said in a recent video.. so, they've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can say and do the "right" thing when they WANT to, leaving only one obvious fact, in 2020 and 2021 they did not WANT to. Whatever the reason was remains to become fully clear, but one thing's certain, Jehovah did NOT approve of those things they said and did and I would not like to be in their shoes.. my own shoes are bad enough 🤢
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Really???
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Several years ago, the Society was reorganized. Previously, the GB sat on ALL the Society's board of directors. They controlled it all. But then they needed to shield themselves from lawsuits and from losing assets, so they reorganized. The GB divested themselves from ALL the corporations. They are simply the spiritual heads, with no legal organizational ties to the JW's.
 
KingdomLeast said:
Several years ago, the Society was reorganized. Previously, the GB sat on ALL the Society's board of directors. They controlled it all. But then they needed to shield themselves from lawsuits and from losing assets, so they reorganized. The GB divested themselves from ALL the corporations. They are simply the spiritual heads, with no legal organizational ties to the JW's.
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I vaguely remember something like this. Does it mean they can't be responsible for any bad advice or bad teachings they preach too?
 
Ms_ladyblue said:
I get so tired of hearing that same old line, “they’re not perfect“ that’s what the world says and, no, we know they’re not perfect and neither are we. But you don’t have to be perfect to be honest, do you? We can use that old excuse for them all we want to….it doesn’t excuse them from wrongdoing.
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Thank you for saying this. I feel the same way.

It's a way to hide behind having to hold someone accountable who has disappointed you and possibly having to sever the relationship and set a boundary. All boundaries create grief and loss and the whole struggle with the GB's conduct for the R&F is what they are going to do about it. There is a lot to lose: family, friends, security, a sense of belonging and community.

What scriptures of Christ that I have kept in mind during this whole process has been:

Matthew 10:34-38:

34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Now, I don't have family in the organization so some may feel that it's easy for me to walk away, BUT, what they are forgetting is that for over 30 years I DID walk away from them while I was IN the organization and I was very faithful to this. With Jehovah's help it CAN be done. I've done it now, TWICE.

Sure, in the beginning it's hard, but you work through it and find your "new" normal.

And Jehovah's and Christ's words are faithful:


Matthew 19:29

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

The quality of who is in my life now has gone up dramatically. Gone are the days of editing what I have to say around Witnesses for fear of judgment or it "getting back to the elders". The people in my life now I can talk about ANYTHING including speculating about scripture even if I may be wrong. And due to this, I have come to greater insights about scripture than I ever have.

Life is better outside of the organization, at least for me. For those with lots of family in, they get lots of support. A former sister relayed an experience to me recently that is oh-so-typical:

A sister that she knew recently had the family patriarch pass away. He was an elder for many years and very well known in the area. Most of his sons were elders with wives and some even went to Bethel. So they had lots of family in the area. The sister said "Isn't Jehovah's organization wonderful? We've had so much supportive phone calls, its' wonderful".

My friend had to bite her tongue as she wanted to say: "Yeah, it's wonderful for you because your father-in-law had power in that organization and his sons have power and so OF COURSE everyone is nice to you. It's not the same if you are Suzy Nobody. People don't give that same support for you when you don't have family in the org."

As a spiritual orphan who never had family in the org other than my husband, I can vouch that when all of my parents died (step-father and mother and father) NO ONE showed up for their funerals or even so much as said "I'm sorry for your loss".

So I think that those who have family in the org still and they are sticking it out hoping to help them out really are in a quandry. It's prayer time. Ask Jehovah what HIS thoughts are on the situation and what HE wants. It's easy to rationalize, and it's not our place to judge, but we each WILL be accountable for our actions and we could very well be influenced by these same family members in the end if their faith doesn't enable them to leave when it comes down to that "strange direction that doesn't make sense" which gets diseminated and you don't agree with it.

Just my two cents.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I vaguely remember something like this. Does it mean they can't be responsible for any bad advice or bad teachings they preach too?
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I think that was the plan, but when you consider all the lawsuits and payouts, it doesn't seem to be working. Of course, Witness elders have gone to prison for their part in hindering police investigations at the advice of the GB regarding the sex abuse cases.

Ironically, while the GB themselves are shielded, the Society itself is not, and those in control legally, are the ones who will get the brunt of it all.

It's a business, plain and simple. These people do not represent Jehovah or His Son.
 
Nomex said:
I think we have to think about this whole thing completely differently. Hitler said, "the bigger the lie the more people would believe it." But I think what is more revealing about that is what he was referencing. He was talking about how the Jews had painted themselves as a religion when in fact they are a race...or something to that effect. It's hard to find the references that really explain this, the internet is indeed being purged on info like this... but I think the point is way more nuanced.

When we think about the Pharisees for example, did they think they represented Jehovah? Most certainly they did, it it is what allowed their fanatical treatment of Jesus, God's son. It also condemned them, because their positions revealed what was in their hearts. The reason I bring up the Hitler quote, which is probably more of a paraphrase, but the fact is, many people lie to themselves. I think it is safe to think Satan himself lied to himself. So it stands to reason we in his system have a tendency to do the same. None of us are immune to it.


So I do not think it's a fair assessment, to narrow it down in such a way. Here's how I would describe it...the GB lied to themselves, and still do..and have for over 100 years...and they lie to themselves about everything...but regarding this...I am certain they said to themselves, "this vaccine and lock downs is what we should do, look at Romans 13"..etc...and so they justified their actions...it's not so much what they did, as I have pointed out regarding why Eve sinned, its WHY THEY SINNED! Satan drew the sin out of Eve, by appealing to her sinful desire, which was to "be like God." Now why or how he knew that would draw her sin it, who knows, but he must have known, because not only did he do it, but it worked.

But now history is repeating itself starting all the way at the beginning...being like God, appealed to Eve, so now here we are 6,000 years later, and these men, who believe they will be "like God", Satan is drawing their sin out, in exactly the same way he did Eve! But the desire to be like God is the actual original sin. So then are we surprised that Satan has used the very thing that worked the very first time he tried it?

So I would say it is way more complicated and convoluted than these two options, but it includes both, and they will bend over backwards, because like mister "Pillow Gate" himself said, "they are our future Kings" to do whatever then can to keep themselves in power.

Personally, I think they were overwhelmed with Covid and had NO IDEA what to do about it, and panicked! Every thing they did, reeks of desperation and confusion. The God they claim to serve, was unavailable for comment. So they had to resort to seeking out Satan for guidance, exactly like Saul did, when Jehovah's prophet was also "unavailable". So he sought out advice from the "witch of Endor/UN." Instead of asking why Jehovah was not directing them, they went to the UN for council and inserted Romans 13 for their reason!!!!! Sound familiar? Its exactly what Winder did, when he said, "we don't have to apologize, we know this is how Jehovah does things."

Jehovah is making them reveal who and what they are...and it seems to be accelerating!
I would caution however, although they are clearly just like Saul, Jehovah did not gloat in their demise, and therefore had the inspired record, record how David felt about the man who claimed he killed Saul. That is not to say we should not look forward to the end to their deception and their punishment, just don't be too happy about it. It is sober and extremely tragic that they have allowed themselves to be so deceived. But again why are they deceived? "Those who want to be first will be last".... they desire to be like God, and that desire is drawing them out and brings forth their sins! It is exactly what is happening all around us all through out the world...these people want to "be like God " exactly like their "father the Devil."
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Of course it is all speculation at this point, but my feeling is that their personal beliefs were likely that all should get vaccinated. Add to that, that I believe there are many at Bethel who are paranoid about germs, as Donald Trump is too, they probably thought that others should get vaccinated and they probably initially believed that they would be protected if all got vaccinated. They are in the most vulnerable group being the elderly. But I think the clincher was likely the money offered. In my mind that is probably what pushed them over the edge to coerce the vaccine and hope all would follow their example thereby earning a windfall of money from big Pharma and/or Bill Gates in his many forms of philanthropic entities. Then, I believe, just as Judas saw the results of his betrayal and was no doubt shocked that it exceeded what he thought would occur, they probably also were shocked. But they doubled down because that is what criminals do.
 
SusanB said:
Of course it is all speculation at this point, but my feeling is that their personal beliefs were likely that all should get vaccinated. Add to that, that I believe there are many at Bethel who are paranoid about germs, as Donald Trump is too, they probably thought that others should get vaccinated and they probably initially believed that they would be protected if all got vaccinated. They are in the most vulnerable group being the elderly. But I think the clincher was likely the money offered. In my mind that is probably what pushed them over the edge to coerce the vaccine and hope all would follow their example thereby earning a windfall of money from big Pharma and/or Bill Gates in his many forms of philanthropic entities. Then, I believe, just as Judas saw the results of his betrayal and was no doubt shocked that it exceeded what he thought would occur, they probably also were shocked. But they doubled down because that is what criminals do.
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I personally think you're too kind Susan.They had plenty of notice re what was in the jab including aborted foetal tissue.
They're bloodguilty as all out in my book!!!😱
 
CyndiaS said:
How do we know that those financial contributions were for the vaxx, specifically? TIA
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Well, we don't have the proverbial "smoking gun" in terms of an itemized cancelled check, but if you look at the dates of the donations, it's the month of the lockdowns and three months after that:

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This page shows that Fidelity Investments was involved in COVID charity relief:

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The leadership of the National Philanthrapic Trust worked for Microsoft, the World Economic Forum, the Federal Reserve Bank, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Black Rock, Cigna, Blue Cross. Those are all the companies behind the vaxx agenda (and of course, more like Pfizer and Moderna, but those are covered by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and WEF).

So you put together WHO gave the money, WHY they gave the money and WHEN they gave the money, and the picture is pretty clear.
 
StopTheInsanity said:
Well, we don't have the proverbial "smoking gun" in terms of an itemized cancelled check, but if you look at the dates of the donations, it's the month of the lockdowns and three months after that:

View attachment 6283

This page shows that Fidelity Investments was involved in COVID charity relief:

View attachment 6284View attachment 6285

The leadership of the National Philanthrapic Trust worked for Microsoft, the World Economic Forum, the Federal Reserve Bank, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Black Rock, Cigna, Blue Cross. Those are all the companies behind the vaxx agenda (and of course, more like Pfizer and Moderna, but those are covered by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and WEF).

So you put together WHO gave the money, WHY they gave the money and WHEN they gave the money, and the picture is pretty clear.
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Yes, and if you had over 70% of your staff vaxxed, you would get a big bonus stimulus. Bethel had at least 99% of their staff vaxxed fully. Now, look at the current events. It's a disaster. They are doing damage control. They were wrong. They know they can be sued for alot of money because of it. Why they won't admit it. Even though it was mandatory to take it and if you didn't, you would have to leave Bethel and go back home, though some did it voluntarily. They were in prison in their room unless they got vaccinated, it explains the incredibly high 99% vax rate at Bethel. I really do feel sorry for the brothers especially the single ones that were trapped in special territory assignments or within Bethel as they don't even have a spouse to be in company with during that lonely and dark time that must be remembered as a stain on human history and we must do everything in our power to prevent that censorship of truth. Like how governments try to cover up for their corruption. Much like emperor Nero burning part of Rome to blame it on Christians so he can persecute them under a lie. Secularists and Christian haters try hard to censor that even now. We are dealing with the exact same thing today. It's all a manufactured crisis.
 
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