"During the great tribulation, we may receive instructions that seem strange, impractical, or illogical" - WT 🤔🤨 really ???

kenmuldoon55 said:
Their arrogance sets them up to be foremost of the stumbled when Jesus arrives.
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Interesting: Plato Say's: Those who seek power are not worthy… Those who seek power are not worthy of that power. The people always have some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness. This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs when he first appears he is a protector.
 
StillA_WorshiperOfJah said:
I suspect the 'strange, impractical, illogical' instructions will be to accept the Mark of the Beast, what ever that will be.
( Probably some type of digital, biometric passport, which without it one cannot buy or sell, and will include some sort of pledge of allegiance to the Beast system, and repudiation of Jehovah.)
It will clearly separate the 'wheat from the chaff'.
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This is what I suspected as well but I believe I read something about the MOTB being introduced after the judgement of the evil slave has already taken place. Maybe someone can clarify. I'm still trying to get all of the timing of events straight.
 
Jah-son said:
This is what I suspected as well but I believe I read something about the MOTB being introduced after the judgement of the evil slave has already taken place. Maybe someone can clarify. I'm still trying to get all of the timing of events straight.
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If we consider Daniel, the KotN takes over the world by crushing the KotS & any opposition. Plus, he uses a smooth tongue to persuade the kings of the earth to join him. The same can be said with those who were unfaithful to the covenant & those who know God will suffer the KotN's wrath.
 
Jah-son said:
This is what I suspected as well but I believe I read something about the MOTB being introduced after the judgement of the evil slave has already taken place. Maybe someone can clarify. I'm still trying to get all of the timing of events straight.
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EX13:16 "This must serve as a sign on your hand and as a headband on your forehead" The MOTB is the opposite in a symbolic sense? Logic says mark is initiated when beast emerges which has to be post tribulation? I would not be surprised if the humvees surround W/T pre trib Mtt24:15 before decapitation and follow it up once it gets its head back super charged! Beast has eaten up 300billion of Russia's assets, they may want to gobble up WTBTS ASAP. W/T has assets conducive to world wide dissemination of narrative, they proved it when an NGO! Matt24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the stars will fall from heaven" Indicating definitive exposing of GB.
 
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Prophecies very important. We need to keep watching the occurring events because it will strengthen our faith but they are of God to fulfil. However, in vast majority of cases people fail because they do not keep the pure worship. Satan always tries to corrupt human beings (starting with Jesus while on earth) and turn them away from Jehovah to some form of religion ( true or false whatever).
But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them—I place no other burden on you. Nevertheless what you have, hold firmly until I come. The one who overcomes, and the one who keeps My deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations;
Revelation 2:20‭, ‬24‭-‬26
 
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women (any form of religion), for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Revelation 14:4‭-‬5
For you have been called for this purpose, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you would follow in His steps, He who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
1 Peter 2:21‭-‬22
 
Truth_Seeker said:
Prophecies very important. We need to keep watching the occurring events because it will strengthen our faith but they are of God to fulfil. However, in vast majority of cases people fail because they do not keep the pure worship. Satan always tries to corrupt human beings (starting with Jesus while on earth) and turn them away from Jehovah to some form of religion ( true or false whatever).
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I agree, and feel the need to add that understanding prophecy requires holy spirit. Holy spirit requires pure faith and love, and the will of God. Trusting men, or trusting things we do not understand is a mistake. If there is conflict about something we should not let it go, but we should seek discernment for ourselves, such that we are not blind following blind into a pit. Matt15:14.
 
The term "the great tribulation" comes from Revelation 7:14.

What is the context? John was watching a scroll being opened one seal at a time.
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th seal tell of horsemen that bring great tribulation to the earth.
The 5th seal is about the 144,000.
The 6th seal tells about a great crowd that survive that great tribulation.

What tribulation? The one that is being described to John in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seals of that scroll.
Yes, those horsemen are the cause of "the great tribulation."
And when did those horsemen ride? From the beginning of the last days.

We are living in the great tribulation. It is not a future event.

Christ tells us what conditions will be like when Armageddon strikes:

(Luke 17:26-30) Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of SodĘąom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.

That is not describing an entire world reeling from great tribulation.

The 2nd and 3rd horsemen rode at the beginning of the last days during world wars 1 and 2, and their ride encompassed the entire earth. The fourth horseman rides at the end of the last days and he is confined to a certain quarter of the earth. (Re 6:8) Not a fourth of the earth as in every fourth house on your block, but "the fourth part".

What quarter of the earth? Probably the same part of the earth mentioned when the sixth angel blew his trumpet where angels were untied: The area around the Euphrates River. (Re 9:14, 15)

And what has been happening in "the fourth part of the earth" surrounding the Euphrates River here at the end of the last days? Great tribulation.

The following are download links. (if a warning pops up it is because the server is http and not https, which it does not need to be)

The Great Tribulation - Discussion.doc

The Fourth Horseman.doc

:^)
Dane
 
xrt469 said:
I think Matthew 24:21, 22 mentions something about it, too. The world is a mess but I believe it will get much worse.
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Hi xrt469

As pointed out in "The Great Tribulation - Discussion" document, Mt 24:21, 22 is referring to the time when Jerusalem was destroyed, not the last days before Armageddon.

Yes, the world "is a mess", but people are still eating and drinking and buying and selling....

:^)
Dave
 
Dane500 said:
Hi xrt469

As pointed out in "The Great Tribulation - Discussion" document, Mt 24:21, 22 is referring to the time when Jerusalem was destroyed, not the last days before Armageddon.

Yes, the world "is a mess", but people are still eating and drinking and buying and selling....

:^)
Dane500 said:
The term "the great tribulation" comes from Revelation 7:14.

What is the context? John was watching a scroll being opened one seal at a time.
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th seal tell of horsemen that bring great tribulation to the earth.
The 5th seal is about the 144,000.
The 6th seal tells about a great crowd that survive that great tribulation.

What tribulation? The one that is being described to John in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seals of that scroll.
Yes, those horsemen are the cause of "the great tribulation."
And when did those horsemen ride? From the beginning of the last days.

We are living in the great tribulation. It is not a future event.

Christ tells us what conditions will be like when Armageddon strikes:

(Luke 17:26-30) Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of SodĘąom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.

That is not describing an entire world reeling from great tribulation.

The 2nd and 3rd horsemen rode at the beginning of the last days during world wars 1 and 2, and their ride encompassed the entire earth. The fourth horseman rides at the end of the last days and he is confined to a certain quarter of the earth. (Re 6:8) Not a fourth of the earth as in every fourth house on your block, but "the fourth part".

What quarter of the earth? Probably the same part of the earth mentioned when the sixth angel blew his trumpet where angels were untied: The area around the Euphrates River. (Re 9:14, 15)

And what has been happening in "the fourth part of the earth" surrounding the Euphrates River here at the end of the last days? Great tribulation.

The following are download links. (if a warning pops up it is because the server is http and not https, which it does not need to be)

The Great Tribulation - Discussion.doc

The Fourth Horseman.doc

:^)
Dane
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You really need to read Robert’s book on these matters.
Your interpretations seem a bit askew.



Dane500 said:
I’m
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Dane500 said:
Which part is askew?
Please explain.

:^)
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The killing off of a fourth part of mankind won’t be localized somewhere on earth but will be earth wide.
WW1 and 2 had nothing to do with the horseman’s ride.That’s Watchtower babble.
Their ride is yet future. If we’ve been living in the great tribulation, then Christ is on his heavenly throne and according to Psalms 2, Jehovah terrifies the earths kings and speaks to them in His hot displeasure.
The prophecy there reveals that these earthly kings will be United as one against Jehovahs anointed one.
Hasn’t happened yet friend.
 
Dane500 said:
Which part is askew?
Please explain.

:^)
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Here is one article of many that explains: https://e-watchman.com/anticlimax-hoax/

And, here is a ”teaser” aka a quote from the article and a link to further reading.

“…The Watchtower’s predicament is well illustrated in the the 28th chapter of Revelation, which states: “For the bed is too short to stretch out on, and the woven sheet is too narrow to wrap up in.”

Hopefully you get the picture. The Watchtower wants to be God’s prophet —announcing the things to come, but it has to do so on its own authority, even as Jeremiah says: “The prophets prophesy lies, and the priests dominate by their own authority.” The prophet-class cannot use God’s word as the authority since it has already rendered the awesome revelations of God’s judgments into meaningless nonsense. Call it Revelation’s grand anticlimax!

The truth is, the judgments contained in Revelation —at least the first few trump blasts —are not directed against Christendom anyway, but against that which belongs to God —his earthly organization. We can hardly expect the Watchtower to announce judgment upon itself, can we?

But I can. And I have. Consider the chapter called Revelation in Jehovah Himself Has Become King.”
 
Dane500 said:
The term "the great tribulation" comes from Revelation 7:14.

What is the context? John was watching a scroll being opened one seal at a time.
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th seal tell of horsemen that bring great tribulation to the earth.
The 5th seal is about the 144,000.
The 6th seal tells about a great crowd that survive that great tribulation.

What tribulation? The one that is being described to John in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seals of that scroll.
Yes, those horsemen are the cause of "the great tribulation."
And when did those horsemen ride? From the beginning of the last days.

We are living in the great tribulation. It is not a future event.

Christ tells us what conditions will be like when Armageddon strikes:

(Luke 17:26-30) Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of SodĘąom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.

That is not describing an entire world reeling from great tribulation.

The 2nd and 3rd horsemen rode at the beginning of the last days during world wars 1 and 2, and their ride encompassed the entire earth. The fourth horseman rides at the end of the last days and he is confined to a certain quarter of the earth. (Re 6:8) Not a fourth of the earth as in every fourth house on your block, but "the fourth part".

What quarter of the earth? Probably the same part of the earth mentioned when the sixth angel blew his trumpet where angels were untied: The area around the Euphrates River. (Re 9:14, 15)

And what has been happening in "the fourth part of the earth" surrounding the Euphrates River here at the end of the last days? Great tribulation.

The following are download links. (if a warning pops up it is because the server is http and not https, which it does not need to be)

The Great Tribulation - Discussion.doc

The Fourth Horseman.doc

:^)
Dane
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I appreciate your attempt to reason on some of these scriptures and I looked through your discussion thread. I do think you are probably on track with the horseman being the "cause" of the tribulation.
However, Robert has thoroughly debunked the 1914 hoax which was initially concocted using Egyptology based on calculations derived from the Great pyramids. There are many issues with 1914 that do not hold water.
As others have suggested, read Roberts book and compare with scripture... you may come away with a new perspective.
 
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