How can anyone believe the Quran?

Artist77

Member
Essentially 90 % of Muslim rejection of the Bible and belief in the Quran is due to the trinity. They believe that because Muhammad rejected the trinity, and instituted a strict and pure monotheism, in their minds he must be a prophet from God. To them he is Moses like figure saving Arabia and the world from polytheism. If the trinity doctrine never arose, Islam may never have existed. Muhammad not only rejected the trinity, but also the fact that Jesus is the son of God. That God has an only begotten son is abhorrent to them. It denies that Christ was even crucified. He only "appeared" to have been crucified, which is similar to Gnosticism. He is relegated to the status of a mere prophet. Yet even the prophetic status of Christ is contadictory, since athough they claim to belive in Christ as the messiah, it has no real meaning since they reject all of his teachings. They reinstituted polygamy, forbid pork, make repetative prayers and wash their hands before prayer [similar to the Pharisees]. There is no "love your enemy" in Islam. In many ways, Islam resembles an expansionist Judaism through jihad. They also believe in a literal hellfire.
 

Driven

Well-known member
Essentially 90 % of Muslim rejection of the Bible and belief in the Quran is due to the trinity. They believe that because Muhammad rejected the trinity, and instituted a strict and pure monotheism, in their minds he must be a prophet from God. To them he is Moses like figure saving Arabia and the world from polytheism. If the trinity doctrine never arose, Islam may never have existed. Muhammad not only rejected the trinity, but also the fact that Jesus is the son of God. That God has an only begotten son is abhorrent to them. It denies that Christ was even crucified. He only "appeared" to have been crucified, which is similar to Gnosticism. He is relegated to the status of a mere prophet. Yet even the prophetic status of Christ is contadictory, since athough they claim to belive in Christ as the messiah, it has no real meaning since they reject all of his teachings. They reinstituted polygamy, forbid pork, make repetative prayers and wash their hands before prayer [similar to the Pharisees]. There is no "love your enemy" in Islam. In many ways, Islam resembles an expansionist Judaism through jihad. They also believe in a literal hellfire.
Interesting info
 
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The God Pill

Well-known member
The book also seems to oppose goddesses "ascribe no partners to god" associate no one with God" which is understandable given how often ancient Israel appropriated Baal's consort for YHWH.

It opposes both our Arian christology
by opposing there being a "god" with The God as Jesus is described in the gospel of John. And Jesus role as appointed king both of heaven and earth "God shares sovereignty with no one" by denying the death on the torture stake it denies the ransom.

In addition to gnostic infancy gospel and occult testament of Solomon it's also influenced by the Sethian books of Adam and Eve where it derives it's view of the devil's origin and the fake gospel of Barnabas although the version of it in circulation the past few centuries was probably modified by Muslims or created by drawing from the Diatessaron and other gospel harmonies then modifying.
 
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kirmmy

Well-known member
Years ago I tried reading the Quran as well as the book of Mormon and the Hindu Bhagavad gita. I didn't make it very far in any of them. I have a very low tolerance for BS. Although, it might be worth the effort to plow through the Quran if one is in an Islamic community and wishes to reason with them using Mohamud's scribblings as a starting point.
A noble effort. I've always wanted to read the Quran.

When someone asks you "How do you know your holy book is any better than all the other holy books?" at least you can answer truthfully that you attempted to read them but they had nothing on the Bible.

I was going to Uni when I started to study with the JWs. I was really excited about what I was learning (Bible not Uni) so when we got an assignment to write about something dear to us in English class, I choose the accuracy and trustworthiness of the Bible. I didn't get a very good grade and the teacher made sure to put a comment at the end; "What makes you think your holy book is any better than any other holy book?" Had I done the report better I would have compared the Bible to the Quran and a few other holy books but I was young, lazy and naive. At least I'm not young any more. :LOL:
 

Jahrule

Well-known member
I just got banned for asking on FB if Muhammad was white. The funny thing is they probably thought I was being facetious because they were making fun of Christians for depicting Jesus as a white man. I recognize Jesus probably wasn't white. The only reason I mentioned the thing about Muhammad being white is because people were saying Jesus was out in the middle east, as if nobody in the middle east was white. But that's not exactly true. For one, white isn't a race. Two, just like other parts of the world, there are many varieties of skin color in any given area. There have always been white Arabs, and apparently Muhammad was one of them -- at least according to the Quran and the Hadith. Although I guess the world isn't ready for that much truth just yet. Even though it is 100% true. If people knew this maybe Islam wouldn't get such a free pass. Sorry. I just think this is hilarious.

 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
As a former, short-lived Mormon I tried to read the Book of Mormon. What a mess. The Quran is about the same. The best that I can say about either is this is what one should expect from a man written and man composed book. The best anyone could scrounge out of the Quran that I ever saw was a quote that we are born from water and then the quotation states that we are 70% water. Past that, there ain't much there. I did try.
 

Artist77

Member
Most Muslims are good natured and a lot of them will say that Jehovah's Witnesses are closest to them since we reject the trinity. The problem is that when Muslims delve deep into the Quran and the Hadith [the alleged sayings of Muhammad], they are met with super pharisaical rules and regulations. For example, Islam bans Portrait art, listening to music and dancing. Even the pharisees don't go that far. Muhammad had a very superficial understanding of the Old Testament [Since they essentially ignore the New Testament]. For example, Exodus 20: 4 "You shall not make yourself a carved image" is taken literally. Throughout nearly all of Islamic history, with rare exceptions, you will not find portrait art but will only find geometric designs or calligraphy. That's the extent of permissable art in Islam. But if one is to delve a little more deeply into the matter, such as Exodus 25, you will find that the Ark of the Covenant had sculpture of two Cherubin on the sides. Similarly, at 1 Kings 6 you will see that King Solomon's temple had sculpture of cherubs and reliefs on the walls. If sculpture is allowed in the house of God, and on the Ark of the Covenant, than surely an individual is allowed to create sculpture/ art. The only prohibition by God is on worshipping such images. As I said, its a very superficial understanding of scripture. The ban on Music can easily be debunked. The Israelites had trumpets, King David played the harp. The Israelites are recored as dancing. Islam is filled with 10, 000 such pharasaical rules. Its very similar to the Judaic rules of men that Jesus was against. They have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
 

Driven

Well-known member
Most Muslims are good natured and a lot of them will say that Jehovah's Witnesses are closest to them since we reject the trinity. The problem is that when Muslims delve deep into the Quran and the Hadith [the alleged sayings of Muhammad], they are met with super pharisaical rules and regulations. For example, Islam bans Portrait art, listening to music and dancing. Even the pharisees don't go that far. Muhammad had a very superficial understanding of the Old Testament [Since they essentially ignore the New Testament]. For example, Exodus 20: 4 "You shall not make yourself a carved image" is taken literally. Throughout nearly all of Islamic history, with rare exceptions, you will not find portrait art but will only find geometric designs or calligraphy. That's the extent of permissable art in Islam. But if one is to delve a little more deeply into the matter, such as Exodus 25, you will find that the Ark of the Covenant had sculpture of two Cherubin on the sides. Similarly, at 1 Kings 6 you will see that King Solomon's temple had sculpture of cherubs and reliefs on the walls. If sculpture is allowed in the house of God, and on the Ark of the Covenant, than surely an individual is allowed to create sculpture/ art. The only prohibition by God is on worshipping such images. As I said, its a very superficial understanding of scripture. The ban on Music can easily be debunked. The Israelites had trumpets, King David played the harp. The Israelites are recored as dancing. Islam is filled with 10, 000 such pharasaical rules. Its very similar to the Judaic rules of men that Jesus was against. They have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Now that you mention that, when I’ve been in the home of Muslim, I often saw framed calligraphy but never really understood it. Thanks for the info. It sounds like you know what you’re talking about.
 
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Joe MacTeeg

Well-known member
Years ago I tried reading the Quran as well as the book of Mormon and the Hindu Bhagavad gita. I didn't make it very far in any of them. I have a very low tolerance for BS. Although, it might be worth the effort to plow through the Quran if one is in an Islamic community and wishes to reason with them using Mohamud's scribblings as a starting point.
I served in an Arabic group for about 4 years. I found that studying the Quran to help them spiritually is a fool's errand. It is interesting that in the 1950's the Watchtower ran a series of in-depth articles using quotations from the Quran to "reason" with believers. It was quite an undertaking and well done. But they came to realize this was not the way to win hearts. There is zero reasoning with these people leading to a conversion to truth. The indoctrination is too strong. I can illustrate this with a couple experiences.

We had an Arabic JW and his family visit our group for a week to aid us in the ministry. I asked the brother how he reasons with the Muslims on the common objection that "God has no son." He replied that he does not bother with reasoning with them on any of the Islamic beliefs. There is no point. They are too indoctrinated. He said that the hour is too late. They must already be ready to study the Bible. Period.

I found this to be true. Jehovah has to have already moved them to desire to leave Islam and become a Christian. One man studied the Bible on the website, and had quit smoking, and then one day showed up at the Kingdom Hall when he saw from the website there were Arabic meetings. Another girl had decided to become a Christian, and her Uncle was hunting her to do an "honor killing" at the time she found a sister in our group, to study the Bible with.
 

Driven

Well-known member
I served in an Arabic group for about 4 years. I found that studying the Quran to help them spiritually is a fool's errand. It is interesting that in the 1950's the Watchtower ran a series of in-depth articles using quotations from the Quran to "reason" with believers. It was quite an undertaking and well done. But they came to realize this was not the way to win hearts. There is zero reasoning with these people leading to a conversion to truth. The indoctrination is too strong. I can illustrate this with a couple experiences.

We had an Arabic JW and his family visit our group for a week to aid us in the ministry. I asked the brother how he reasons with the Muslims on the common objection that "God has no son." He replied that he does not bother with reasoning with them on any of the Islamic beliefs. There is no point. They are too indoctrinated. He said that the hour is too late. They must already be ready to study the Bible. Period.

I found this to be true. Jehovah has to have already moved them to desire to leave Islam and become a Christian. One man studied the Bible on the website, and had quit smoking, and then one day showed up at the Kingdom Hall when he saw from the website there were Arabic meetings. Another girl had decided to become a Christian, and her Uncle was hunting her to do an "honor killing" at the time she found a sister in our group, to study the Bible with.
Great experiences. Thank you for sharing.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
I just got banned for asking on FB if Muhammad was white. The funny thing is they probably thought I was being facetious because they were making fun of Christians for depicting Jesus as a white man. I recognize Jesus probably wasn't white. The only reason I mentioned the thing about Muhammad being white is because people were saying Jesus was out in the middle east, as if nobody in the middle east was white. But that's not exactly true. For one, white isn't a race. Two, just like other parts of the world, there are many varieties of skin color in any given area. There have always been white Arabs, and apparently Muhammad was one of them -- at least according to the Quran and the Hadith. Although I guess the world isn't ready for that much truth just yet. Even though it is 100% true. If people knew this maybe Islam wouldn't get such a free pass. Sorry. I just think this is hilarious.

I have a relative who is not mentally all there & has posted stuff that could warrant the FBI kicking the door down. Even my other family members have tried to get him off FB & they did nothing about it. Here's a couple (out of dozens) of his posts (Heads up! They are offensive & ridiculous so if it bothers you it's best not to click on the attachment):
 

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Artist77

Member
I think that when Jesus spoke of false prophets coming, he was thinking of Mohammed.

Another one people seem to rarely know about or even mention is Simon Bar Kohhba, the Jewish messianic claimant whose war against Roman occupation in the 130's lead to half a million dead, persecution of Christians, and the expulsion of Jews from Jerusalem.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
I have a relative who is not mentally all there & has posted stuff that could warrant the FBI kicking the door down. Even my other family members have tried to get him off FB & they did nothing about it. Here's a couple (out of dozens) of his posts (Heads up! They are offensive & ridiculous so if it bothers you it's best not to click on the attachment):
That second one had me LOLing. Not going to repeat it here... He is one seriously twisted fry.
 

Joe MacTeeg

Well-known member
They go all the way with the proskynesis.

In the Arabic group field work, I met a hardliner who told me and my partner, (with considerable force), that the only prayer acceptable to Allah is when your forehead touches the ground. Nothing else counts.

Another very serious dude, from Libya, invited us in. Probably the scariest call I made. During the course of the call he explained all about how the West and NATO had destroyed Libya. That stuff I actually was quite informed on and agreed with him. (Even though we are "neutral" LOL)

What left me cold, and never to return, was his explanation of "hospitality" as he practiced it. One must extend hospitality three times. After the third time, if the visitor still has not come over to the "correct" point of view, if you see him on the street, it is........gesture for severing the head. :oops:
 
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