Watchtower and Jimmy Swaggart?

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
@4JahandChrist

I’m sorry that you had to go through that. But I’m afraid you aren’t alone- by far. Many have been cruelly traumatized and spiritually abused by this same “judicial” procedure. And no wonder so many XJWs lose their way, namely those who are physically out, mentally in (POMI).

The Shepherd the Flock book says that if an elder committs a df’ing offense and he doesn’t rat himself out or otherwise doesn’t get ratted out, he’s in the clear if nobody finds out for THREE YEARS. - meaning he can consider himself in the clear after three years. Why three years? it makes no sense. All elders obviously know this- so my point in bringing this up is that we can only imagine the enormous baggage that elders bring to the table when judging others like you and me (yes i had to face a judicial committee myself). It’s the lowly publishers that have to carry those enormous burdens.

There is not a single family untocuhed by WT’s incredibly cruel, harsh disfellowshipping policy which IMO is used for two reasons- 1) to quash communication and 2) punishment. There is no way it’s a “loving provision”.

I’m glad you’re here getting support you deserve.

Now I AM screaming into a pillow.
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
@4JahandChrist

I’m sorry that you had to go through that. But I’m afraid you aren’t alone- by far. Many have been cruelly traumatized and spiritually abused by this same “judicial” procedure. And no wonder so many XJWs lose their way, namely those who are physically out, mentally in (POMI).

The Shepherd the Flock book says that if an elder committs a df’ing offense and he doesn’t rat himself out or otherwise doesn’t get ratted out, he’s in the clear if nobody finds out for THREE YEARS. - meaning he can consider himself in the clear after three years. Why three years? it makes no sense. All elders obviously know this- so my point in bringing this up is that we can only imagine the enormous baggage that elders bring to the table when judging others like you and me (yes i had to face a judicial committee myself). It’s the lowly publishers that have to carry those enormous burdens.

There is not a single family untocuhed by WT’s incredibly cruel, harsh disfellowshipping policy which IMO is used for two reasons- 1) to quash communication and 2) punishment. There is no way it’s a “loving provision”.

I’m glad you’re here getting support you deserve.

Now I AM screaming into a pillow.
I had no idea about the 3 year thing. Really? Goodness that's odd. I know that when I applied for reinstatement recently the Elders asked me "In the Last 2 years have you been involved in serious sin?". They asked me it 3 times. I had been living by Jehovah's standards as I was working my "Three Column Technique". Actually when I went to explain my 3 Column Technique they just glazed over. They wouldn't hear any thing that was outside of WT literature.

Thanks for the encouragement Kimmy. Much appreciated. (y)
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
i just finished a Match Game ‘73 live stream. Get ready to Match the Stars! I just love Richard Dawson.

@4JahandChrist

yes, it’s true- the three year rule.

i remember when i had to appear before a judicial committee, the elders wanted to know if anyone knew and if so who and how many. Nobody knew about my transgression. It appears as if that is the deciding factor in the outcome of many a judicial committee meeting. who knows? how many?

it’s all about appearances.

If a tree falls in the forest . . . ???
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
you know what else is sad about the ridiculous reinstatement process? even if you move away- it’s still up to the brothers that originally df’d you whether you should be reinstated. How would they even know if a person is or isn’t repentant from hundreds perhaps thousands of miles away? I never understood this.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
@4JahandChrist

you are spot on.

The year WT changed its policy to “voluntary donations” was a direct result of Goods and Services Tax law in Canada which was enacted that same year- the huge volume of literature sales would have cost WT millions in taxes- and so they called the switch over to contributions “new light”. That’s why the brothers gave that talk- you were over the target- you know exactly what was going on but WT needed JWs to believe the change was guidance from God in the form of new light.

Apparantly Jimmy Swaggart got the same “new light” down in California hahah.

Ugh it makes me want to scream!!
@Asadour
Lol 😂 “New light” is voluntary donations…how is that NEW LIGHT? 🙄
I understand why you wanna scream!!! I guess I was oblivious to what was going on at the time…Now it makes sense to me.Oh, but I feel so duped now that I’m figuring out so many things about the org. 🥺
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
@Asadour
Lol 😂 “New light” is voluntary donations…how is that NEW LIGHT? 🙄
I understand why you wanna scream!!! I guess I was oblivious to what was going on at the time…Now it makes sense to me.Oh, but I feel so duped now that I’m figuring out so many things about the org. 🥺
beats me. They don’t want JWs to know that they place a high regard on fiancial issues. plus, they were double dipping for awhile- both charging JWs for the mags while JWs collected contributions at the door- a two-fer. Eventually they made it all voluntary contribution- and we were constantly reminded to ask for a contributions/donations at the door. I don't recall ever asking anybody- but i made regular donations to the WWW and local kingdom hall expenses.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
beats me. They don’t want JWs to know that they place a high regard on fiancial issues. plus, they were double dipping for awhile- both charging JWs for the mags while JWs collected contributions at the door- a two-fer. Eventually they made it all voluntary contribution- and we were constantly reminded to ask for a contributions/donations at the door. I don't recall ever asking anybody- but i made regular donations to the WWW and local kingdom hall expense
Sometimes I would think to ask for donations…I remember one time we placed a Creation book and the HH contributed $20! That did happen pretty frequently, so I guess the WT were getting more than they bargained for!
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
you know what else is sad about the ridiculous reinstatement process? even if you move away- it’s still up to the brothers that originally df’d you whether you should be reinstated. How would they even know if a person is or isn’t repentant from hundreds perhaps thousands of miles away? I never understood this.
Had this happen to me. Got chopped in one Country. Moved to another. The Brothers in the Country I got d'd in rejected my application for reinstatement 3 times before I got let in. I never spoke a word to the original committee.

Even when the decision to reinstate was given it took nearly 3 months for the Elders to post the letter to the current congregation I was attending. They left me there for an extra 3 months shunning for no other reason other then that they couldn't be bothered responding.

The Hypocrisy is Palpable. These men are going Door to Door every week to look for "sheep" and their Brother is outside the fold and they can't find the time to write a letter? Just leave him out in the Cold for 3 months for absolutely no logical reason?

Worse than that. I rang Bethel after waiting 6 weeks for the letter to arrive and the Service Desk said I had a bad attitude. "Elders are busy and who are you to judge them on their use of time"?

You don't report for a month and that's considered spiritual weakness. Elders take 3 months to send a letter recommending reinstatement and that's considered fine because they are "so busy". Joke.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I had no idea about the 3 year thing. Really? Goodness that's odd. I know that when I applied for reinstatement recently the Elders asked me "In the Last 2 years have you been involved in serious sin?". They asked me it 3 times. I had been living by Jehovah's standards as I was working my "Three Column Technique". Actually when I went to explain my 3 Column Technique they just glazed over. They wouldn't hear any thing that was outside of WT literature.

Thanks for the encouragement Kimmy. Much appreciated. (y)
@4JahandChrist For what it’s worth…I personally like your 3 Column Technique. What was there to glaze over? I‘m sure they could understand Aussie/ English right?
I felt the same back in 2000. After the Local Needs part I said to some of the Brothers "But so what if it's to do with Tax. Why is it such an issue?" You are quite correct. They wanted it to sound like it was "Theocratic " direction rather than a work around to avoid Tax.

The same Elder that did the Local Needs was going to be on my Judicial Committee for immorality. Just days before the case the sister I was involved with confessed to me that she was having an Affair with one of the Elders. He was the PO so they quickly had to find someone else to replace him on my Judicial.

Without me having in any knowledge the Sister did a deal with the PO and they denied that anything had taken place. This made me look like a Slanderer as I had informed the Brothers of the Adultery.

The Elders that disfellowshipped me were best mates with the PO. I was D'd before I even walked into the committee.

Even worse. The whole reason the PO lied was that the Elder that was sent into investigate had himself committed Adultery. The same sister that got it on with the PO had a fling with the other Elder as well. She had told the PO about the other Elder and PO had to cover her sin as he was also hiding his.

The reason I brought this up is you said you "feel like screaming". Can you imagine how hard it is to get kicked out of the Congregation by men who are committing Adultery? I wanted to barge through the door in a live meeting , grab the microphone and expose them. Not that I would do that but that is how I felt.

My indiscretion with the Sister was relatively minor. 3 times we stepped over the line of acceptable conduct but it wasn't all the way. They said I committed Spiritual Suicide. I've seen Brothers shown mercy for far worse sin but I got the opposite treatment.

Can't have people in the ORG talking about the Jimmy Swaggart Case/Tax Laws and exposing the Elders corruption can we?

The PO's demolition campaign against me lasts till this day. The Brothers think the PO stood down for health reasons and that I misled the sister into fornication. The reverse was the case. The sister had offended many times before I met her but she had a free pass as the PO was protecting her. So so corrupt!!!!!
@4JahandChrist Say what??? 😳
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I had no idea about the 3 year thing. Really? Goodness that's odd. I know that when I applied for reinstatement recently the Elders asked me "In the Last 2 years have you been involved in serious sin?". They asked me it 3 times. I had been living by Jehovah's standards as I was working my "Three Column Technique". Actually when I went to explain my 3 Column Technique they just glazed over. They wouldn't hear any thing that was outside of WT literature.

Thanks for the encouragement Kimmy. Much appreciated. (y)
@4JahandChrist That‘s a horrible thing that you had to experience! Now, let me get this straight….these imperfect men were judicially meeting with you to question you about your indiscretions, but meanwhile they are committing wrongdoings than you…REALLY! Ok, I don’t mean to make light of it. But it just tells me that these imperfect men are in no position to handle any kind of a case of wrongdoing. That’s not what Jehovah put them there to do in the first place. I know how it feels to be mistreated by the elders. You did the right thing, they did the the wrong thing…end of story. Don’t worry 😉
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
@4JahandChrist That‘s a horrible thing that you had to experience! Now, let me get this straight….these imperfect men were judicially meeting with you to question you about your indiscretions, but meanwhile they are committing wrongdoings than you…REALLY! Ok, I don’t mean to make light of it. But it just tells me that these imperfect men are in no position to handle any kind of a case of wrongdoing. That’s not what Jehovah put them there to do in the first place. I know how it feels to be mistreated by the elders. You did the right thing, they did the the wrong thing…end of story. Don’t worry 😉
Yep and the congregation for the best part believe that the Elders pray to Jehovah at the Judicial and that he sends the decision to disfellowship like a facsimile to their brains. "What is loosed in Heaven is loosed on Earth".

The correct understanding is that if the Elders are genuinely studying the Scriptures and are living in accordance with Jehovah's holy spirt then they have a better chance of making the right decisions. So if the scriptures were penned by Holy Spirit and the Elder's apply those scriptures correctly then in that sense they are making a decision based on Jehovah's spirit.

However this is frequently not the case. Some Elder's are motivated by power and prestige rather than humility and the need to serve. These kinds of Brothers should never be anywhere near the Judicial process and yet that is where many of them are.

I mean look at Eastern Europe for goodness sakes. KGB agents infiltrate the ORG and are appointed to the Elder's body. Was that Holy Spirit making those decisions?

I sat in a night club watching strippers with a well known Elder. Straight out of a Judicial Committee and then out for some boozey Pub Crawling. He can knock back his 2 bottles of wine and roll into a Judicial with a hang over and some how Jehovah is going to bless that arrangement? Corrupt.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
I actually feel sad and afraid for elders these days. They are caught in a trap. The scriptures are clear on how they should be conducting themselves. No wonder judgement begins with gods house.
Hi @Chloe !

did you happened to see or read the elders’ letter that went out, I believe Sept 2021 from the Gov Body? The letter said that elders -under no uncertain terms- were not to express ANY negative opinions about the vaccine whether in a private setting or meeting setting. The letter went so far as to accuse elders who were against the shots of “creating/causing divisions” (a disfellowshipping offense BTW), the Gov Body ended the letter by saying that “the CO would be monitoring” elders going forward.

Can you even believe it? I don’t know if i could have had i not read it with my own eyes.

So yes, many elders are in a really in a tough spot. I wonder how they dealt with it. It is so sad.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Watchtower filed an Amicus brief (friend of the plaintiff) in Jimmy Swaggart v California Board of Equalization (the tax board) on behalf of Jimmy Swaggart.

Another strange bedfellows case in Watchtower history.

Read the brief in its entirety here:

Where do you find all this stuff?! All those years my eyes have been shut.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Where do you find all this stuff?! All those years my eyes have been shut.
Hi Hi Hi @BARNABY THE DOG. How are you?

This subject came up on Watchtower History of how WT changed its donation arrangement in response to a new tax law on selling the WT, and so WT changed it to voluntary donations and called the change “new light”.

i was hoping that the Amicus Brief would be in the public domain- and sure enough, it was.

When i hear or read things- for example WT claiming new light for donations at the same time that the Canadian govt enacts a new tax law- it spurs me on to look for a paper trail.

All filed documents with state and federal courts are in the public space and open to the public..

WT can’t hide them, and there is no where to run.
 
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