How many are waking up?

[robins]

Jehovah sacrificed a child. He did so willfully. You, on the other hand, lost a child and presumably tried to obey God's Law, which you now claim was a demonic sacrifice. Which was it? Did you participate in a demonic ritual and oversee the sacrifice of your child to the Devil, or did you try to do things God's way and still suffered a loss? If the latter there is a reward. There are many, hundreds of thousands who take blood transfusions and die anyway, or because of the blood they were infused with. As the scripture says, anything not done in faith is a sin.

Jesus only died for three days, so the sacrifice was not in loosing a child, but more witnessing his suffering without intervening. Loosing a child today by denying blood one could argue it a greater sacrifice. The bible also says to ensure the blood is drained a certain way, but how many of us eat meat where this is not personally ensured? Is that an equal sin?

 

[evw]

Watching your child die as you hold their hand knowing that you refused certain safe options sounds like child sacrifice to me, but that's my opinion. I would never take vaxxed blood NOW, but what about the decades of yearly sacrifices before 2020? I thought we could share thoughts and ideas here, but I guess my head isn't screwed on correctly for you. I respect all your hard work in the ex and current JW movement, you're a living legend, but this might not be the right fit for me Robert. Thanks sir👍🏽

I am really sorry for your loss; Yet watching your child die slowly but surely from the so-called right treatment is a sacrifice to the arrogance of human "science".

 

[Jahrule]

Jesus only died for three days, so the sacrifice was not in loosing a child, but more witnessing his suffering without intervening. Loosing a child today by denying blood one could argue it a greater sacrifice. The bible also says to ensure the blood is drained a certain way, but how many of us eat meat where this is not personally ensured? Is that an equal sin?

Technically it's likely God would have a completely different perspective on death as a whole. We can't possibly know the full extent of what Christ gave up. None of this was ever supposed to happen. It's possible had none of this happened the veneer separating the heavenly realm from the physical world may have been loosely defined. Spirits could have a completely different relationship with us than is possible in this world. But instead what we have is relentless exhaustive effort and endless suffering in a fallen world. We all have regrets. We all have lost loved ones.

God, on the other hand, can bring anyone back to life that he wants. The sacrifice isn't about something God needs. It's something we needed and continue to need. Jesus showed he trusted his father with his own life. He was willing, as a human to die. Jesus had never died before. That's still an unnerving process. The point isn't void simply because God rewarded him afterwords. We're supposed to be rewarded too. I can't imagine losing a kid. That's awful. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Parents are supposed to protect their children. I get it.

The blood issue could get even more complicated in the future. Research into alternative therapy is a growing field. It's just a matter of time before blood substitutes become more effective than blood transfusions. Would that be okay since it's not blood? Or what if we figure out how to clean or replenish the blood we have? Eventually nanotechnology will be a thing. But here's the point. Even if we somehow solved the issue on blood transfusions and nobody ever needed one again, the larger question is would we ever choose to reject God's rule on any issue to save someone we love. That doesn't just have to be about blood. It could be about any number of things. We all have to draw the line somewhere. At the end of the day Jah is the only one who can bring our loved ones back. Not even the best of science can do that.

 

[Nomex]

It depends on what you mean by "waking up." Jesus said "the love of many will grow cold" and "many will be stumbled." So, if waking up means becoming aware of the Watchtower's double-dealing and hypocrisy, then yes, it seems that many more will be waking up.

Yes this is what i mean in this particular context.

Personally, having had a web presence for the past 20 years I do not see any uptick in interest.

I understand this to be the case. However, I am in spite of my experiences and and knowledge which are factual, I maintain a certain optimism for the future, that finding you and your information, and those who agree with us, has inspired. That is to say, I never believed that 1% of 1% I.E. 8 million JW's of a population of 8 BILLION human beings, was a "Great Crowd" who "have come out of the great tribulation and have washed there robes clean with the blood of the lamb." That is not to say I know or understand all the details, nor do I believe the popular "Christian" belief that all you have to do "is believe in the Lord" to be saved. In any case I have decided to see things with a very optimistic outlook. Which is not all that difficult, if you reject WT's teaching that the only ones who survive Armageddon are baptized, WT JW's.

I am convinced that if what you believe, and I can see no reason to disagree, when Christ reveals himself to his brothers, and they are sealed, the same thing will happen that happened when Jesus was on the earth. The Jews who were honest hearted, and knew the Messiah was going to come, the crowds that followed him, and they were massive, they were the ones who started Christianity and to this day, inspire "faith" in Christ. (Albiet a conterfeit Christianity.) And I am convinced, the majority of the "Great Crowd" will come from Christendom, because like the Jews, they have at least a pretense of faith.

Your insight into the relationship between Moses and Elijah in the transfiguration, is in part why I am convinced of this fact. I have pointed out many times, and in this forum for a fact, WT, and the GB like to compare themselves to Moses, the rebel Korah and what happened to that rebellion because they like to say even questioning the GB and WT is the same thing Korah did.

Jehovah brought the hammer down on Korah. But what's NEVER EVER, talked about is the real reason why that happened!

Jehovah had PROVEN in no uncertain terms Moses was his chosen one. Moses presided over the 10 plagues, the parting of the Red Sea, they all saw him on the mountain and saw his shining face...etc. There was no reasonable person who could question Moses credentials.

Not to go off on the many reasons I have pointed out how that was proof and why there was no excuse to question Moses "pedigree", like the one post I made joking about how Moses, when he asked Jehovah what he should tell who sent him to the Isrealites, and Jehovah told him to put his hand in his coat, and when he removed it, he produced a Watchtower magazine. NO! But rather Jehovah gave him his holy spirit and power to perform the most powerful miracles.

So to my point. I think this is some of the most powerful evidence you are 100% on the money, and that this is what will happen. Jehovah will empower the remnant to perform powerful signs, just like Moses and Elijah, and the actual right hearted people will respond positively and become part of the "Great Crowd"!

Perhaps the reason you've had very little response the last 20 years is because Jesus has NOT returned yet! I'm pretty confident that will change, when Christ actually returns!!

 

[Liv4ever]

sacrifice was not in loosing a child

how many of us eat meat where this is not personally ensured?

Jesus sacrificed life on earth which is far better than life in heaven...

2. Lead pipe cinch. Why do you think it's called a slaughterhouse? Meat that hasn't been properly drained has that funny, bloodshot taste. Anyway blood is too valuable. In fact no part of an animal is wasted in modern slaughterhouses.

 

[robins]

Jesus sacrificed life on earth which is far better than life in heaven...

2. Lead pipe cinch. Why do you think it's called a slaughterhouse? Meat that hasn't been properly drained has that funny, bloodshot taste. Anyway blood is too valuable. In fact no part of an animal is wasted in modern slaughterhouses.

eh, not sure anyone can make the claim that life on earth is better than heaven. Not all meat comes from slaughterhouses, and i don't trust the ethics of how they treat animals, and we certainly shouldn't bet our life on trusting their practices if indeed the blood rule is that big of a deal to god.

 

[Liv4ever]

eh, not sure anyone can make the claim that life on earth is better than heaven. Not all meat comes from slaughterhouses, and i don't trust the ethics of how they treat animals, and we certainly shouldn't bet our life on trusting their practices if indeed the blood rule is that big of a deal to god.

Easy...no sex in heaven.

2. Ethics? It's about greed. Bloodis too valuable to waste

 

[DavidCJ]

eh, not sure anyone can make the claim that life on earth is better than heaven. Not all meat comes from slaughterhouses, and i don't trust the ethics of how they treat animals, and we certainly shouldn't bet our life on trusting their practices if indeed the blood rule is that big of a deal to god.

My JW dad told me a story where he talked to a brother about eating a tiny fish and whether the blood should be drained of it or not. It's probably not even 1ml(1/1000th of a liter). How much should you drain? Should you cut it down to the thinnest layer and wash every bit of it by hand? Then should we take a look at it under a scanning electron microscope and look cell by cell to see if teeny tiny portion of blood exist?

James 3:17 - "But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, reasonable..."
Phillipians 4:5 - "Let your reasonableness be known to all men."

The point he was trying to make is what the two verses have said. As people get older, one of the traits of becoming wiser is they become more reasonable. The fact is you try to the best of your ability. And like @Liv4ever pointed out, you can taste the blood. And I am pretty sure some want every drop of blood gone. Which is impossible because by the time you inevitably give up because of the time, effort, and energy spent the meat would be not edible by normal standards.

@DeepThinker By the way I responded the way I did because it was laughable. Back just 30 years ago the common knowledge was that there were just few blood types, A, B, AB, and O. And we know now there are subtypes from those 4 major groups, and the subtypes branch out even further. Blood types mattered because it determines rejection percentages. Likely the reality is that every single of 7 or 8 billion humans in the world have different blood types.

@robins is questioning whether the butcher shops are preparing animal properly and draining all the blood. In this case, you are willingly having it put it in your body. Have you considered the mistakes the doctors make, the STDs, the genetic diseases and many countless unknowns? As science advances more and more, we realize more and more that we know less about the world than we ever thought we did and we are ever more confident of the wisdom of the "knowledge from above".

What you said(@DeepThinker) is absolute nonsense. There are cases where we might be tested to the point of death, and actually die. The scriptures tell us to be "faithful to death" and you will be granted life. I completely avoided relationships majorly because of the advent of STDs and it's just disgusting. I'd never, ever put any drop of blood in my body. I put in my No Blood paper that even fractions of blood are not allowed. I disregarded my bosses that tell me to take out the earplugs because I alone have to be responsible for me and nothing in the world can compensate for hearing loss. I would not put blood just because of disease and that I find it more than disgusting - abhorrent. That is my conscience and we know that matters, because the scriptures tell us.

@robins is right in the long-term view that we are in the pangs of distress era and the world and the leaders are doing absolutely crazy things. But it has not been like this. It was relatively easy to avoid.

 

[DavidCJ]

Easy...no sex in heaven.

LOL, we are physical beings after all, with a spiritual component added. That's why those LGBTBBQ folks PROVE there is a gender every time they open their mouths. We cannot comprehend otherwise since we knew it that way and no other way from birth.

Surely if anything YOU have the earthly hope. I never had any desire for heavenly life nor felt it. If anything I feel a disconnect to it as it's foreign to me. Why would I want to become something I have zero clue about, no thanks! The anointed obviously feel/know(insert other appropriate descriptions here) different.

 

[Revvzone]

There are more that are awake than what we're aware of. Many are starting to sense that something is horribly wrong and Jesus Christ is revealing to them exactly what it is.

Ive found with most ex JWs who wake up, is from "Expectations making the heart sick" proverbs 13:12 which are enhanced by the the Watchtowers own doing, mostly, The Sky is Falling. By saying, The End-The End-The End, At ever meeting! I've listened to that fear mongering vomit my whole life..I have not only become aware of the lies. I've built up an immunity, by walking out of the kingdom hall when the bs starts spewing ,so my boots dont get covered in dog crap..I love the looks I get, when I jump to my feet, smile and wave,as I hit the exit..

 

[Revvzone]

Some are still deeply mind controlled by the powers that should not be, but I maintain that this entire society has been a grift, and the rules on blood were meant to sacrifice humans in order to appease powerful people that commune with ancient demons and fallen angels. It sounds crazy, but healthy people wearing masks as they walk single file 6 feet apart sounds crazy too.

The resemblance is, spot on! Not to mention these two fruit bats are some of my favorite characters.. Maybe WT will make cartoons versions of them.. Call the first episode, How to be as brainwashed and psychopathic looking as we are..

 

[The God Pill]

For several years I frowned on the society's stance on blood as independant of him I had come to the same reasoning Ray Franz expressed on it. If it were a mere matter of a symbol of life and respecting life than yes it would be wrong to deny oneself or one's loved ones transfusions if genuinely necessary to ensure survival to act otherwise would be like valuing a wedding ring a symbol of a marital union over a marriage itself.

But here's the thing the bible says the Soul is in the blood now that might mean nothing to anyone that all but denies the existence of the soul like the watchtower but it's pretty straightforward bioholography. Beyond the microchimerism of a woman integrating a small quantity of her husbands dna (which probably enhances pair bonding the two becoming one flesh etc) God would not want people superimposing other peoples bioholograms in there body which would apply no less to organ and tissue transplants from another. There is frequently reports of people that receive organ transplants experiencing personality changes in line with that of the donor this is because (excluding any contributing microbiome element) the persons electromagnetic field is now housing two bioholograms. The significance of the blood is that it receives an electric charge from the heart and the hemoglobin contains iron which is magnetic of course your heart is many times stronger electromagnetically than your brain so your circulatory system is the primary force in sustaining your field. One can even say its connected in a manner more symbolic/less literal than it is with the soul to the spirit because ruach/spirit means wind and blood plays it's essential role in the oxygenation of the body. Consumption of blood under some conditions might be addictive as well given all the monstrous people that are into adrenochrome and the like.

I read a book last year that claimed drawing its argument partly from the epistle of Barnabas and the Mishnah that one time a year in the first temple period the priest actually did consume the day of atonement sacrifice raw and would include some blood (vinegar was also involved which was why vinegar is mentioned during Jesus time on the stake) it would explain the wine emblem symbolizing jesus blood. Placing paragraph below

"At the second Passover (6.4), Jesus fed the 5,000 and then spoke of the manna – the link to exodus and Passover – and taught that this food perished and did not give eternal life. In contrast, the Day of Atonement sacrifice – the goat that represented the LORD – was consumed by the officiating priests. The Letter of Barnabas shows that the first Christians understood the death of Jesus as this sacrifice, and ‘the prophet’ is quoted: ‘Let them eat of the goat which is offered for their sins at the fast, and (note this carefully) let all the priests, but nobody else, eat of its inward parts, unwashed and with vinegar.’ A token part of the offering was consumed with its blood and with vinegar, and Barnabas explains that when Jesus drank vinegar before he died, he was preparing himself as that sacrifice.23 ‘The prophet’ cannot be identified, but in the Mishnah there is an allusion to eating the raw sin offering on the Day of Atonement.24"

 

[PJ54]

For several years I frowned on the society's stance on blood as independant of him I had come to the same reasoning Ray Franz expressed on it. If it were a mere matter of a symbol of life and respecting life than yes it would be wrong to deny oneself or one's loved ones transfusions if genuinely necessary to ensure survival to act otherwise would be like valuing a wedding ring a symbol of a marital union over a marriage itself.

But here's the thing the bible says the Soul is in the blood now that might mean nothing to anyone that all but denies the existence of the soul like the watchtower but it's pretty straightforward bioholography. Beyond the microchimerism of a woman integrating a small quantity of her husbands dna (which probably enhances pair bonding the two becoming one flesh etc) God would not want people superimposing other peoples bioholograms in there body which would apply no less to organ and tissue transplants from another. There is frequently reports of people that receive organ transplants experiencing personality changes in line with that of the donor this is because (excluding any contributing microbiome element) the persons electromagnetic field is housing two bioholograms. The significance of the blood is that it receives an electric charge from the heart and the hemoglobin contains iron which is magnetic of course your heart is many times stronger electromagnetically than your brain so your circulatory system is the primary force in sustaining your field. One can even say its connected in a manner more symbolic/less literal than the soul to the spirit because ruach/spirit means wind and blood plays it's essential role in the oxygenation of the body. Consumption of blood under some conditions might be addictive as well given all the monstrous people that are into adrenochrome and the like.

I read a book last year that claimed drawing its argument partly from the epistle of Barnabas and the Mishnah that one time a year in the first temple period the priest actually did consume the day of atonement sacrifice raw and would include some blood (vinegar was also involved which was why vinegar is mentioned during Jesus time on the stake) it would explain the wine emblem symbolizing his blood. Placing paragraph below

"At the second Passover (6.4), Jesus fed the 5,000 and then spoke of the manna – the link to exodus and Passover – and taught that this food perished and did not give eternal life. In contrast, the Day of Atonement sacrifice – the goat that represented the LORD – was consumed by the officiating priests. The Letter of Barnabas shows that the first Christians understood the death of Jesus as this sacrifice, and ‘the prophet’ is quoted: ‘Let them eat of the goat which is offered for their sins at the fast, and (note this carefully) let all the priests, but nobody else, eat of its inward parts, unwashed and with vinegar.’ A token part of the offering was consumed with its blood and with vinegar, and Barnabas explains that when Jesus drank vinegar before he died, he was preparing himself as that sacrifice.23 ‘The prophet’ cannot be identified, but in the Mishnah there is an allusion to eating the raw sin offering on the Day of Atonement.24"

What you mentioned is what I think they call Body Memory. It's a fascinating subject!

Body memory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Charming Primrose]

I am really sorry for your loss; Yet watching your child die slowly but surely from the so-called right treatment is a sacrifice to the arrogance of human "science".

I agree 😔
I can't even imagine having to endure the loss of a child

 

[Jonah]

Blood is basically an organ transplant and bad medicine. They don't publicize the numbers of patients who die from the body rejecting blood transfusions.

 

[Former2Free]

I've noticed that the literature has been simplified & even the comments at the meeting have to be under 30 seconds. I can understand the need for those who need the accommodation. Also, going electronic in order to control the info is no doubt causing the elderly to be left behind. I can just imagine how they must feel about the organization they loved to be part of become something totally unrecognizable today. As for people loosing faith, atheism is the easy route & people don't seem to be willing to learn (just get spoon fed by the TV & social media) & strive for better things. This is why I say many people seem to be "soulless" since they lack any higher brain function. Did you guys know a lot of people literally have no "inner monologue" & have Aphantasia? Just imagine how many J-Dubs could be like this. It's really creepy...

Let me tell you atheism is no easy path. It is riddled with people genuinely looking for truth, people who are in high control religions and don't want to lose their friends and families for the crime of questioning the hierarchy. Atheism is not easy its one of the hardest things to come to grips with when you realize that you've been lied to. So please don't categorize people like that because saying atheism is an easy route and people aren't willing to learn is completely wrong and just not true in any way.

 

[PJ54]

Let me tell you atheism is no easy path. It is riddled with people genuinely looking for truth, people who are in high control religions and don't want to lose their friends and families for the crime of questioning the hierarchy. Atheism is not easy its one of the hardest things to come to grips with when you realize that you've been lied to. So please don't categorize people like that because saying atheism is an easy route and people aren't willing to learn is completely wrong and just not true in any way.

I would agree to a point if we were in the time period of the 1950's & before. However, the world today is more hostile to religion as a whole (especially in the West & places like China along with North Korea). Sure it's not to the point of hostility like it was during the time of the USSR, yet... This begs the question though, going by the response, are you familiar with the main e-watchman site & what it is about?