Can anyone help me figure this out? Thank You!

PJ54 said:
the Israelites considered him as a blasphemous apostate
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Thank you. I'm learning this is the case. They can sniff out anyone who's atttide and actions have gone off course. Though I hoped to "fade" I am starting to think it will be impossible. Just this morning I have had 2 sisters texting me, and their "encouragement" is nothing but piling on guilt and reminding me what I should be doing, and that I need protection and support within the congregation, not separate from it. One recommended I get on meds, as she has had to in order to continue. You know... just medicate yourself so you can keep doing the things that are making you miserable.
 
@MuleJule dont worry i like your rambling.

What a cruel and uncalled for thing for your mother to say to you. I’m sorry she said that and I’m sorry she hurt your feelings like that. Why do JWs think they can just turn off the love and turn on the hate spigot if ANYONE dare criticize or question these eight, bloated alcoholics living la vida loca on 1 Kings Drive. Jesus said to love your enemies and feed them when they are hungry. Yet i have seen JWs turn into some of the most vile, hurtful creatures when anyone -including other JWs -barely criticize or question the GB or Watchtower. i’ve seen it in person and online. It’s baffles my mind. That really makes me question that “love among yourselves” box that JWs like to tick for being the one true religion.

Jesus’s true words are again shown to be true- a student is not above his master so when a prominent GB member lights a match and blows it out illustrating what he can’t wait to do as a King in God’s Kingdom to Jehovahs enemies, is it any wonder JWs imitate that kind of thing? We aren’t there yet, omg:

Luke 6 40 A student*is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly instructed will be like his teacher.
 
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MuleJule said:
I was under the spell . . .
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we all were sister. i spent 27 years treating my “worldly” family members like God viewed them as though they were beneath me. I did apologize for that. But apologies don’t quite cut it sometimes. My relationships with my siblings will never be the same because of the way i treated them while i was under thе spell. It’ll take time to heal.
 
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Asadour said:
@MuleJule dont worry i like your rambling.

What a cruel and uncalled for thing for your mother to say to you. I’m sorry she said that and I’m sorry she hurt your feelings like that. Why do JWs think they can just turn off the love and turn on the hate spigot if ANYONE dare criticize or question these eight, bloated alcoholics living the vida loca on 1 Kings Drive. Jesus said to love your enemies and feed them when they are hungry. Yet i have seen JWs turn into some of the most vile, hurtful creatures when anyone -including other JWs -barely criticize or question the GB or Watchtower. i’ve seen it in person and online. It’s baffles my mind. That really makes me question that “love among yourselves” box that JWs like to tick for being the one true religion.

Jesus’s true words are again shown to be true- a student is not above his master so when a prominent GB member lights a match and blows it out illustrating what he can’t wait to do as a King in God’s Kingdom to Jehovahs enemies, is it any wonder JWs imitate that kind of thing? We aren’t there yet, omg:

Luke 6 40 A student*is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly instructed will be like his teacher.
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I remember the convention where they had the Hezekiah movie to play. When the part where the angel came down & struck the Assyrian army dead & the screen went to black the crowd was clapping even though the movie wasn't over. I get people are fed up with this world but such emotions can easily be manipulated.
 
PJ54 said:
I remember the convention where they had the Hezekiah movie to play. When the part where the angel came down & struck the Assyrian army dead & the screen went to black the crowd was clapping even though the movie wasn't over. I get people are fed up with this world but such emotions can easily be manipulated.
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so true @PJ54. they can very easily be manipulated and we here have to be careful not to judge too. It’s so easy to fall into that trap. Satan loves to taunt us and Jehovah.
 
Asadour said:
Yet i have seen JWs turn into some of the most vile, hurtful creatures when anyone -including other JWs -barely criticize or question the GB or Watchtower. i’ve seen it in person and online. It’s baffles my mind. That really makes me question that “love among yourselves” box that JWs like to tick for being the one true religion.
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Thank you. Your words are comforting to me, that you can sympathize. And I agree so much. I'm sorry about the way your family relationships were affected when you were under the spell. I have alienated many too. One, my precious fleshly sister, whom I have recently reunited with, and we are making up for lost time. So much lost time. If I told you her story and what she has endured because of the org you would wonder how she came through it all with her sanity. Some day I will be brave enough to tell some of these disturbing stories.

And to ramble a little further. If you care to hear my venting. I had a text chat with an anointed sister this morning. I had drawn close to her years ago when her husband passed. I was conducting a bible study for the past couple years and I regularly invited her along. The student had progressed to unbaptized publisher. Recently the student suddenly discontinued everything and said she needed to take a break. She stopped meetings, replying to texts, everything.

The anointed sister told me she was going to send her a memorial invitation. In the meantime I had tried texting her again, just to check on her because it had been so long. She replied that she would probably not be returning to the JWs. This woman is 74 years old, and is the absolute sweetest gal you will ever meet, with a very close-knit loving family. She apologized for wasting so much of our time and effort and she understands if we need to cut her off. I told her I love her regardless, and that I will always be open to friendship with her.

Well, I told the anointed sister about this and let me share the conversation.
____
Me: She seemed fine. She said she's grateful for the time and effort we put into her and that she hopes we don't consider it a waste. She values what she learned, but realized being a witness is not for her. She is going to church with her family and it brings her much comfort and peace to be with them. She is happy. She said she was so glad to hear from me and that she would love to talk and catch up sometime.

Anointed sister: Sorry I wasted an invite. HOW CAN SHE GET COMFORT & PEACE from such falsehood. If she truly values what she learned she wouldn't be in church! I don't care to have her new #.

Me: Each person carries their own load and exercises free will. I know Jehovah reads hearts and whomever he thinks is worthy of slaughtering, he sees the whole picture. As for me, I see she has many wonderful qualities and Jehovah hasn't written her off. I will keep in touch with her.

Anointed sister: Her family is obviously the most important to her. Go for it. I guess while there is time....

Me: Maybe, maybe not. I'm not going to attempt to read her heart and judge her.

Anointed sister: True. But not for me. Am afraid my displeasure would show through. Really who am I?

Me: I just try to remember we don't have access to the big picture, her heart, so many things. We will be judged in the manner we judge others. I want to be merciful and see her how Jehovah sees her. Not like a rancid hopeless disgusting loser. He sees her good qualities and is patient.

Anointed sister: Jehovah has been trying to teach me patience for years. You are good for me - a balance.

Me: Really seeing things from ___'s perspective, would you be drawn to serve a God whose servants discard and write off anyone who isn't ready or able to make major life changes? Especially someone in her mid 70s with a very close family. I choose to believe Jehovah is much more merciful than we can comprehend.
___
At least she admitted she was being rash. It just hurts my heart to see how heartless so many people are. This is just one example. I know as I continue to speak my honest feelings I will encounter much more of this attitude.
 
MuleJule said:
Some day I will be brave enough to tell some of these disturbing stories.
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i completely understand. I too have stories from WT experiences that are too painful to talk about- some my own and some belonging to those i love. Even with my cult recovery therapist in a setting that i know is 100% confidential, i can’t talk about these realities, as they persist even now. i can’t mention them because they are too awful, too painful. Stupid decisions I made based upon what i believed was true (1914).

You’re not alone. The only answer or solution is Jehovah through his Son Jesus. Without them where would we be? We would be lost in the bitter, foul wind that blows off the jaggedy crags on a bleak day. With them the sun shines, the birds sing and the children play.
 
Nomex said:
I think in large part for me what it really boils down to for those of us that are here really is humility. All of us who spent many years and some their whole lives as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, what we believe becomes a part of our identity. The reason you can show someone absolutely, and factually that they are wrong, and yet they reject the truth right before their eyes, is tied to their pride in their identity. There is a certain unmistakable and usually uncalled for arrogance among Jehovah's Witnesses that I have observed my whole life, especially in my own family up close and personal. Of all the people of earth now over 8 billion, there are still only a tiny minority of people who believe "the truth." It takes incredible humility to admit your wrong. And possibly arrogance is why Ex-JW become atheists. It is puzzling why so many become atheists. Perhaps because part of accepting the truth is realizing how little we actually know, and being okay with the things we do not know.


Todo el sistema de Satanás se basa en aprovecharse de nuestra naturaleza orgullosa. Entonces, una vez que tantos se dan cuenta de que WT les ha mentido, piensan que de alguna manera rechazar todas las enseñanzas al por mayor, de alguna manera redime su orgullo. Un buen vendedor sabe que las personas toman decisiones basadas en sus emociones. Vender el miedo es un poderoso motivador. Vender la verdad, eh... no tanto como parece.
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Se necesita amor a la verdad.❤️
 
@MuleJule wow that conversation with the anointed sister is really revealing about what is in her heart only because she chose to speak her heart as the out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Luke 6:45)

You were right not to attempt to judge what was in the 70 y.o. lady’s heart. She didn’t tell the anointed sister why she walked away- it could very well have something to do with the Gov Body’s late 2021 updates (and you know the ones) as many evangelical church goers themselves as individuals do not trust the subject of those updates and rightly so. she is in much better company in her mind, perhaps, staying within the safety of her family members. In this way, it is the Gov Body that stumbles people like this poor woman away from the truth and Jehovah sees that bigger picture in ways this anointed sister does NOT see and will never see.

Also, again, if this sister follows this Gov Body closely, whether she openly acknowledges or not, she is going to imitate its cruelty and lack of compassion.
 
MuleJule said:
I have really been noticing this lately. The arrogance is unmistakable, but not that long ago I was under the spell of thinking JWs were hand picked by Jehovah and given special insight and protection etc etc. I was listening to a meeting recently and the brother giving the prayer said "Out of the billions and billions of people on this planet you chose us." Now, I've heard that before and thought it was a statement of gratitude and humility, but this time it struck me as WOW how arrogant to think you are that special out of billions.

Add to that, once you start questioning doctrine, they almost immediately stop treating you like a human. Even close family and people you have known your entire life. Even when I was completely under the spell, I really struggled with shunning. I felt guilty for talking to DFd people, but I did because they were humans who deserved to be treated with compassion, not looked down on like they didn't deserve to exist.

Exactly the same for me. I searched Jehovah's witnesses vaccine and clicked on KINGDOM BULLETIN #19 and BOOM, that was the beginning of the unraveling. With each article and video by on e-watchman I felt something I haven't felt in years... maybe decades... the scales falling off my eyes. As you said, I found new meaning and significance from the scriptures that blew me away and filled a spiritual need that had been lacking for so long because I only limited my research to WT publications. I am so glad I took the "dangerous" leap to research outside.

BUT like @PJ54 quoted Ecclesiastes 1:18 - For an abundance of wisdom brings an abundance of frustration, So that whoever increases knowledge increases pain.

This in-between space is very painful. So incredibly painful. I want to share what I have learned, but if I do I will no longer be a human worthy of consideration to my entire network of friends and family. I tried to share something with my mother and this was her reply. "Well I guess you're an apostate now. Sorry, I guess we really crapped out as parents." How do you even reply to that? 😭
(now I'm the one rambling)
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Hi MuleJule, It’s so odd that it was EXACTLY the same with the vaccine! I really think it might be leadings of Jehovah’s spirit versus you know who. Because you cannot talk sense to these people. Everyone has already determined their position and they seem to be unable to consider the facts and logic. And everyone is very “dug in” with regard to their position. Have you been able to persuade anyone? But if you only talk with people who agree with you, you’re talking in an echo chamber. Very frustrating.

But at the same time, I feel I have to be so cautious because the last thing I want to do is destroy someone’s faith. I want to build-up not destroy and when I get going sometimes I don’t always say things the right way. So, I try to end with some upbuilding point that gives hope.
 
Asadour said:
it bears repeating- only terror will make them understand the thing heard. Isaiah 28v19
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Reading this thread makes me think of the verses below from 2Tim3:1, and how it is more true now than it has ever been.

Edit: I landed on this thread again, and not sure how this came in my head based on what was said above... does not really fit. I enjoyed reading all of the comments though.

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power...
 
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Driven said:
Hi MuleJule, It’s so odd that it was EXACTLY the same with the vaccine! I really think it might be leadings of Jehovah’s spirit versus you know who. Because you cannot talk sense to these people. Everyone has already determined their position and they seem to be unable to consider the facts and logic. And everyone is very “dug in” with regard to their position. Have you been able to persuade anyone? But if you only talk with people who agree with you, you’re talking in an echo chamber. Very frustrating.

But at the same time, I feel I have to be so cautious because the last thing I want to do is destroy someone’s faith. I want to build-up not destroy and when I get going sometimes I don’t always say things the right way. So, I try to end with some upbuilding point that gives hope.
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Yes @Driven it is very frustrating indeed. Life feels a bit like walking a tightrope right now. I don't find many people (JWs) who even have their own thoughts or opinions, let alone an open mind. Most people believe and repeat what they're constantly taught. They won't venture outside the "safety" of the approved thinking. It's difficult when you are surrounded with people who can't see what you see, and seem to be operating on autopilot with their trained responses to any situation. They cannot be reasonable, even when shown facts. I like your approach to just share upbuilding points. I try to assess each person and ask them questions to see how much I can share with them, but I am usually very cautious. But if they are being arrogant or unloving I can't help but set them straight. I know they know better, but when your only association is your close knit circle, you tend to absorb the thoughts and attitudes of the others in your circle and you can't even see there's a problem unless an objective outsider points it out. I feel like I have become the objective outsider lately.

Have you ever seen the movie or read the book "The Giver"? I have mentioned it before in another thread, but I'm constantly seeing parallels with the mind control. The main character has a slight tendency to question, which leads to him reasoning and he stops taking the daily "health injection" - once he stops, his mind is open to what is really happening in society (which is horrifying but made to appear beautiful and orderly), but nobody else can see, except the leadership who will stop at nothing to prevent him from sharing what the true nature of their reality is. Very interesting.
 
LifeLearning said:
Reading this thread makes me think of the verses below from 2Tim3:1, and how it is more true now than it has ever been.

Edit: I landed on this thread again, and not sure how this came in my head based on what was said above... does not really fit. I enjoyed reading all of the comments though.

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power...
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@LifeLearning I can see a correlation. The attitudes of almost everyone are being affected by this world. Even among professed Christians. Especially noticeable to me is "having no natural affection" "not open to any agreement" "headstrong" "puffed up with pride" and "having a form of godliness but proving false to it's power." I agree with you 100%, it is more and more obvious. It's a good reminder for me to check my attitude and keep myself in line. Thank you for sharing :)
 
Asadour said:
@MuleJule wow that conversation with the anointed sister is really revealing about what is in her heart only because she chose to speak her heart as the out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Luke 6:45)

You were right not to attempt to judge what was in the 70 y.o. lady’s heart. She didn’t tell the anointed sister why she walked away- it could very well have something to do with the Gov Body’s late 2021 updates (and you know the ones) as many evangelical church goers themselves as individuals do not trust the subject of those updates and rightly so. she is in much better company in her mind, perhaps, staying within the safety of her family members. In this way, it is the Gov Body that stumbles people like this poor woman away from the truth and Jehovah sees that bigger picture in ways this anointed sister does NOT see and will never see.

Also, again, if this sister follows this Gov Body closely, whether she openly acknowledges or not, she is going to imitate its cruelty and lack of compassion.
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Yes, it's so interesting. I don't mean to disregard this sister in any way, she has many good qualities. This sister always describes herself as "rebellious" and she and I were on the same page with the vaccines until update #6. Then she told me it was disobedient to keep resisting. She has acted differently toward me ever since she and I could not agree on that. She hasn't mentioned anything to me about the annoucement saying vaccine status doesn't matter for in person meetings.🤷‍♀️
 
MuleJule said:
Yes @Driven it is very frustrating indeed. Life feels a bit like walking a tightrope right now. I don't find many people (JWs) who even have their own thoughts or opinions, let alone an open mind. Most people believe and repeat what they're constantly taught. They won't venture outside the "safety" of the approved thinking. It's difficult when you are surrounded with people who can't see what you see, and seem to be operating on autopilot with their trained responses to any situation. They cannot be reasonable, even when shown facts. I like your approach to just share upbuilding points. I try to assess each person and ask them questions to see how much I can share with them, but I am usually very cautious. But if they are being arrogant or unloving I can't help but set them straight. I know they know better, but when your only association is your close knit circle, you tend to absorb the thoughts and attitudes of the others in your circle and you can't even see there's a problem unless an objective outsider points it out. I feel like I have become the objective outsider lately.

Have you ever seen the movie or read the book "The Giver"? I have mentioned it before in another thread, but I'm constantly seeing parallels with the mind control. The main character has a slight tendency to question, which leads to him reasoning and he stops taking the daily "health injection" - once he stops, his mind is open to what is really happening in society (which is horrifying but made to appear beautiful and orderly), but nobody else can see, except the leadership who will stop at nothing to prevent him from sharing what the true nature of their reality is. Very interesting.
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People like that are called Organic Portals in some groups. It means soulless persons that are like robots. Plus, they are a portal from demons to come through & attack you for whatever reason it may be. It sounds mean but I have noticed this with the world at large & it seems most people are dead inside & it shows in their eyes.
 
MuleJule said:
Yes, it's so interesting. I don't mean to disregard this sister in any way, she has many good qualities. This sister always describes herself as "rebellious" and she and I were on the same page with the vaccines until update #6. Then she told me it was disobedient to keep resisting. She has acted differently toward me ever since she and I could not agree on that. She hasn't mentioned anything to me about the annoucement saying vaccine status doesn't matter for in person meetings.🤷‍♀️
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according to the most recent the elders’ letter -3/20/22- vaccination status does matter. That’s what Watchtower often does- it says one thing in public to JWs and then sends off these confidential letters to elders that give the “if, ands and buts”. All unvaccinated attending the in person meetings must wear a mask. So it will be easy to distinguish the vaxxed from the unvaxxed just by who is wearing a mask and who isn’t.

This goes above and beyond what is “mandated” (btw, the term “mandate” is a 33° Freemason term)
 
MuleJule said:
Yes, it's so interesting. I don't mean to disregard this sister in any way, she has many good qualities. This sister always describes herself as "rebellious" and she and I were on the same page with the vaccines until update #6. Then she told me it was disobedient to keep resisting. She has acted differently toward me ever since she and I could not agree on that. She hasn't mentioned anything to me about the annoucement saying vaccine status doesn't matter for in person meetings.🤷‍♀️
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Vaccination status doesn't matter for in-person meetings in the USA, but I thought it may for New Zealand? I could be totally mistaken
 
MuleJule said:
Yes @Driven it is very frustrating indeed. Life feels a bit like walking a tightrope right now. I don't find many people (JWs) who even have their own thoughts or opinions, let alone an open mind. Most people believe and repeat what they're constantly taught. They won't venture outside the "safety" of the approved thinking. It's difficult when you are surrounded with people who can't see what you see, and seem to be operating on autopilot with their trained responses to any situation. They cannot be reasonable, even when shown facts. I like your approach to just share upbuilding points. I try to assess each person and ask them questions to see how much I can share with them, but I am usually very cautious. But if they are being arrogant or unloving I can't help but set them straight. I know they know better, but when your only association is your close knit circle, you tend to absorb the thoughts and attitudes of the others in your circle and you can't even see there's a problem unless an objective outsider points it out. I feel like I have become the objective outsider lately.

Have you ever seen the movie or read the book "The Giver"? I have mentioned it before in another thread, but I'm constantly seeing parallels with the mind control. The main character has a slight tendency to question, which leads to him reasoning and he stops taking the daily "health injection" - once he stops, his mind is open to what is really happening in society (which is horrifying but made to appear beautiful and orderly), but nobody else can see, except the leadership who will stop at nothing to prevent him from sharing what the true nature of their reality is. Very interesting.
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No I never saw that movie. I’ll have to look it up on the internet of everything while we still have it.
 
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