Peace and Security?

I wanted to resurrect this thread because I did more study on the issue of the proclamation of “peace and security” along with the 2022 Convention info on the JW app. This scripture has been rattling around in my brain for years with no real satisfaction of clear understanding until now. And, I admit I am still speculating, however, I do feel in my own mind we are going to be seeing this “cry” very soon with the 2022 Convention.

We have the 2022 Convention with the theme “Pursue Peace!” Friday’s main scripture is Psalm 29:11: “Jehovah will give strength to his people. Jehovah will bless his people with peace”. On Saturday there is a video on “How Our Brothers Are Enjoying Peace Despite Opposition, Illness, Economic Problems and Natural Disasters”. Sunday’s drama is “Jehovah Guides Us in the Way of Peace”. The keynote address is “Universal Peace is Sure To Come!” And, the original song for the convention is “Peace at Last!”. This is what I see as the backdrop to Jehovah impending judgment on the house of God and it will not be peaceful.
The main problem I see with this is the fact that the Watchtower is only using half the phrase. What about "security"? On the other hand the exact phrase "peace and security" is embedded within the political system and is used all the time. It is noteworthy that they do not say "peace and safety" or "peace and stability" so much, but more often than not the political leaders use the phrase "peace and security." For example, just yesterday Boris Johnson accused Russia of threatening peace and security across Europe.
 
The main problem I see with this is the fact that the Watchtower is only using half the phrase. What about "security"? On the other hand the exact phrase "peace and security" is embedded within the political system and is used all the time. It is noteworthy that they do not say "peace and safety" or "peace and stability" so much, but more often than not the political leaders use the phrase "peace and security." For example, just yesterday Boris Johnson accused Russia of threatening peace and security across Europe.
Understood. However, the phrase “peace and security is simply the way a particular translator would word it. There are other translations and versions. I think it will be the meaning of the phrase and not the exact wording. Here are some examples of 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

ASV
When they are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no wise escape.
AMP
While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord].
AMPC
When people are saying, All is well and secure, and, There is peace and safety, then in a moment unforeseen destruction (ruin and death) will come upon them as suddenly as labor pains come upon a woman with child; and they shall by no means escape, for there will be no escape.
BRG
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
CSB
When they say, “Peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
CEB
When they are saying, “There is peace and security,” at that time sudden destruction will attack them, like labor pains start with a pregnant woman, and they definitely won’t escape.
CJB
When people are saying, “Everything is so peaceful and secure,” then destruction will suddenly come upon them, the way labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there is no way they will escape.
CEV
People will think they are safe and secure. But destruction will suddenly strike them like the pains of a woman about to give birth. And they won't escape.
DARBY
When they may say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon her that is with child; and they shall in no wise escape.
DLNT
When they are saying “peace and security”, then unexpected destruction suddenly-comes-upon them, just as the birth-pain on the one having a child in the womb. And they will by no means escape.
DRA
For when they shall say, peace and security; then shall sudden destruction come upon them, as the pains upon her that is with child, and they shall not escape.
ERV
People will say, “We have peace and we are safe.” At that time destruction will come to them quickly, like the pains of a woman giving birth. And those people will not escape.
EHV
 
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Powerhouse comment. If I'm reading it right, you believe the most likely scenario is that Jah's people will be the ones proclaiming peace and security (More correctly, the bent GB)? That is very possible. My question is; what kind of conditions would have to be in place for the org to make that claim? I imagine they would have to be aligned with the 8th king to an extent. I'm not good enough with understanding the chronology of future fulfillment of prophecy to see how that would play out. Perhaps Robert could weigh in on this.
This is just speculation here but the initial GT in 70 CE was punishment against Jehovah's org at the time (Judah and Jerusalem). When Cestius Gallus unexpectedly withdrew, did not the Jews believe they had achieved peace and security ("we're safe now. We chased off those tyrannical Romans. Look at them fee!")? And we know what happened next...GT.
 
Understood. However, the phrase “peace and security is simply the way a particular translator would word it. There are other translations and versions. I think it will be the meaning of the phrase and not the exact wording. Here are some examples of 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
And still the wording "peace and security" is exactly the phrase used by political leaders. No way around it.
 
I wanted to resurrect this thread because I did more study on the issue of the proclamation of “peace and security” along with the 2022 Convention info on the JW app. This scripture has been rattling around in my brain for years with no real satisfaction of clear understanding until now. And, I admit I am still speculating, however, I do feel in my own mind we are going to be seeing this “cry” very soon with the 2022 Convention.

We have the 2022 Convention with the theme “Pursue Peace!” Friday’s main scripture is Psalm 29:11: “Jehovah will give strength to his people. Jehovah will bless his people with peace”. On Saturday there is a video on “How Our Brothers Are Enjoying Peace Despite Opposition, Illness, Economic Problems and Natural Disasters”. Sunday’s drama is “Jehovah Guides Us in the Way of Peace”. The keynote address is “Universal Peace is Sure To Come!” And, the original song for the convention is “Peace at Last!”. This is what I see as the backdrop to Jehovah impending judgment on the house of God and it will not be peaceful.

Here is the scripture as per the NWT.

1 Thessalonians 5:3-5 “Whenever it is that THEY are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on THEM, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and THEY will by no means escape. But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.”

My question is who is THEY? It is the same “they” that is inescapably destroyed. The Watchtower itself has said in past publications that the cry of peace and security could be a global belief that Satan’s system has achieved worldwide peace but they have also said we don’t know for sure and it could even be a cry to express their desire for peace and security. In my mind there are only 3 possible scenarios. The first is that the world under Satan’s control will think they have achieved “peace and security” and then Jehovah will destroy all of Satan’s system. This does not make sense to me for 2 reasons. Reason “A”, the description of the 7th dual world power (US/Britain) is the clay and iron. It does not stick together so how could they have a unified cry of peace and security? Reason “B” is that even if the dual world power did stick together temporarily, it receives a death stroke but is then revived so it could not be the “they” since “they” suffer inescapable and instant destruction.

The second scenario is that the 8th King of Revelation (global rulership) proclaims “peace and security”, perhaps after they kill the symbolic 2 witnesses and/or after Babylon the Great is destroyed. Either way, the 8th King is fully destroyed at Armageddon. This still does not fit because Paul was not talking about Armageddon. He was talking about Jesus 2nd coming and he was strengthening the brothers who were dealing with persecution from their own “countrymen”. He even describes it as coming as a “thief in the night” which is used, almost exclusively, to describe Jesus’ 2nd coming.

The third and most logical fulfillment (in my opinion) is to follow the pattern set in scripture. There are many scriptural examples of times past when there were false cries of “peace and security”. It was always the religious leaders who as Jeremiah 8:11 says they were trying to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly. So, it was to appease Jehovah’s worshippers when they NEEDED to repent. These religious leaders were saying this message was from Jehovah but it was not.

So, now, God’s people, Jehovah’s Witnesses are once again in a place when they need to repent. For one reason, they have pushed Satan’s vaccine and it has KILLED brothers and sisters and disabled too many. Think of the account in Judges 19 and 20. Jehovah authorized war against the tribe of Benjamin over the rape and death of one concubine. He does not allow this type of unfaithfulness to go unpunished. Zechariah 11:4-5: “This is what Jehovah my God says, ‘Shepherd the flock meant for the slaughter, whose buyers slaughter them and are not held guilty. And those who sell them say, “May Jehovah be praised, for I will become rich.” And their shepherds have no compassion for them.’”

Here is a list of most, but not all, of the scriptures dealing with false peace.
Jeremiah 6:14: “And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying, ‘There is peace! There is peace!’ When there is no peace.”
Jeremiah 8:11: “And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying, “There is peace! There is peace!” When there is no peace.”
Jeremiah 8:15: “There was a hope for peace, but nothing good came, For a time of healing, but there is terror!”
Jeremiah 9:8: “Their tongue is a deadly arrow that speaks deception. With his mouth a person speaks of peace to his neighbor, But inside he lays an ambush.”
Jeremiah 14:13: “At this I said: “Alas, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah! Here the prophets are saying to them, ‘You will not see the sword, and famine will not come upon you, but I will give you true peace in this place.’”
Jeremiah 14:19: “Have you completely rejected Judah, or have you abhorred Zion? Why have you struck us, so that there is no healing for us? There was a hope for peace, but nothing good came, For a time of healing, but there is terror!”
Jeremiah 23:16-17: “This is what Jehovah of armies says: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are deluding you. The vision they speak is from their own heart, Not from the mouth of Jehovah. They are saying again and again to those who disrespect me, ‘Jehovah has said: “You will enjoy peace.”’ And to everyone who follows his own stubborn heart they say, ‘No calamity will come upon you.’”
Ezekiel 13:10: “All of this is because they have led my people astray by saying, “There is peace!” when there is no peace. When a flimsy partition wall is built, they are plastering it with whitewash.’”
Ezekiel 13:16: “The prophets of Israel are gone, those who prophesy to Jerusalem and who see visions of peace for her, when there is no peace,”’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”
Micah 3:5: “This is what Jehovah says against the prophets who are leading my people astray, Who proclaim ‘Peace!’ while they bite with their teeth But who declare war against him who puts nothing into their mouths:”
Psalm 28:3: “Do not drag me away with the wicked, with those practicing what is hurtful, Those who are speaking words of peace with their fellow man while evil is in their hearts.”
This is so intriguing! Just to consider the first scripture you mentioned - Jeremiah 6:14: “And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying, ‘There is peace! There is peace!’ When there is no peace.”

- considering the org has caused the division [ breakdown] - seems they are trying to heal it by the convention. So if this is correct, maybe Jehovah could discipline them shortly! I may be wrong - but it sure is interesting, because they do deserve it!
 
This is so intriguing! Just to consider the first scripture you mentioned - Jeremiah 6:14: “And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying, ‘There is peace! There is peace!’ When there is no peace.”

- considering the org has caused the division [ breakdown] - seems they are trying to heal it by the convention. So if this is correct, maybe Jehovah could discipline them shortly! I may be wrong - but it sure is interesting, because they do deserve it!
There is a lot we can speculate on but thankfully we will find out for certain before too long.
 
Here's my two cents on this subject. The declaration the Bible is talking about will be once they believe they have achieved "peace and security" and it will be after the GT, after the Mark of The Beast, and the Image of the Beast, after the New World Order has "defeated" it's enemies, and after they kill the Two Witnesses, then they will declare "peace and security" and that's when "sudden destruction will be instantly upon them." When Satan believes he's won...."peace and security" is the last thing right before Armageddon! I'm sorry but in my mind this is super obvious and has been for a very long time.
 
I'm not sure I'm correct but I believe it will happen at the end of the GT. It makes sense because then the 8th king will be installed and they will claim we've come out of the biggest turmoil in human history and will now be lead by a tyrannical world power to "peace and security".

Correct me if I'm wrong please. My Bible chronology is terrible.
My bible chronology is worse that your bible chronology!
 
Powerhouse comment. If I'm reading it right, you believe the most likely scenario is that Jah's people will be the ones proclaiming peace and security (More correctly, the bent GB)? That is very possible. My question is; what kind of conditions would have to be in place for the org to make that claim? I imagine they would have to be aligned with the 8th king to an extent. I'm not good enough with understanding the chronology of future fulfillment of prophecy to see how that would play out. Perhaps Robert could weigh in on this.
Given the watchtower‘s record, should the call for peace and security come from them, they could engineer such an event at any time that suites them. They appear to make it up as they go. They have made excursions into the minds of brothers in various ways and for many years. 1975, go bags, keeping on the watch, the final part of the final part of the last days, strange orders that may not be understood - ad nauseam. I truly believe that if they did announce peace and security, they have the means to sell the idea to the flock. Their mental grip on the flock is without doubt, and the time is ripe for exploitation, but once they make that move, there is no going back and yes, it certainly would spell the end for the watchtower should they do that. Logically though, as peace and security is a world wide need, and the nations have to know that Jehovah is God, I cannot see that the relatively puny watchtower would be the instigator of the prophesy. But of course, it’s very well worth the while to explore this avenue as it just may be right. Who is to say?
 
Given the watchtower‘s record, should the call for peace and security come from them, they could engineer such an event at any time that suites them. They appear to make it up as they go. They have made excursions into the minds of brothers in various ways and for many years. 1975, go bags, keeping on the watch, the final part of the final part of the last days, strange orders that may not be understood - ad nauseam. I truly believe that if they did announce peace and security, they have the means to sell the idea to the flock. Their mental grip on the flock is without doubt, and the time is ripe for exploitation, but once they make that move, there is no going back and yes, it certainly would spell the end for the watchtower should they do that. Logically though, as peace and security is a world wide need, and the nations have to know that Jehovah is God, I cannot see that the relatively puny watchtower would be the instigator of the prophesy. But of course, it’s very well worth the while to explore this avenue as it just may be right. Who is to say?
What makes me not let go of this idea is the context of that scripture. But then I add to that my belief that the globalists are not really interested nor motivated by peace and security. They mention it now to sell their global government but the real motivation is to manipulate the people, to the benefit of the globalists.

Although Revelation does describe people who accept the mark of the beast as admiring it and even worshipping it, I have no doubt there will be a large crowd who do not go along with it. Otherwise why would they need to put people “under compulsion“?

Will Satan really get that close to achieving peace and security so as to proclaim it? Perhaps, but that really is not the context of that scripture at 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Would that day really have the possibility of overtaking the anointed “as it would thieves”? Many have proposed the “peace and security “ will be proclaimed after the chosen have died or at least while they are preaching for the 42 months. That does not fit the danger of the anointed being overtaken since they will have already been sealed. The peace and security must come before they are sealed or the scripture makes no sense. I urge each of you to read both books of Thessalonians and remember the scripture numbers are artificially inserted. Read them as their were intended to be read, as 2 letters written to one congregation with the 2nd letter being written shortly after the first.
 
To follow-up on my post, here are a few things I am just now realizing from 1 Thessalonians 5:3. First the Peace and Security must come before the anointed are sealed, otherwise the warning would not make sense because if they are sealed they are not in danger of having that day overtake them. Now if the Peace and Security takes place before the anointed are sealed, then who suffers from sudden and inescapable destruction? The 7th beast gets revived from it’s death stroke. The Great Tribulation will certainly mean the death of many people, but not wholesale destruction. There are some who will “escape” when the scripture says they will by no means escape. So, if you think it is the governments or the globalists, then who suffers instant and inescapable destruction?
 
To follow-up on my post, here are a few things I am just now realizing from 1 Thessalonians 5:3. First the Peace and Security must come before the anointed are sealed, otherwise the warning would not make sense because if they are sealed they are not in danger of having that day overtake them. Now if the Peace and Security takes place before the anointed are sealed, then who suffers from sudden and inescapable destruction? The 7th beast gets revived from it’s death stroke. The Great Tribulation will certainly mean the death of many people, but not wholesale destruction. There are some who will “escape” when the scripture says they will by no means escape. So, if you think it is the governments or the globalists, then who suffers instant and inescapable destruction?
I have written a great deal about how prophecies indicate that the seventh head of the beast gets whacked first. That is the sudden destruction. But the beast will revive because the tribulation is cut short.

I do not think that their saying "peace and security" will be something vague or general, such as the WT saying that there is peace between them and God. As stated already, because the UN and the political establishment already use the specific term "peace and security," it being an integral phrase of their official parlance; note, they do not even use a variation such as "security and peace," but "peace and security," exactly as is written in the NWT; it seems to me to be by divine providence that Jehovah's Witnesses have this foreknowledge and expectation. Because the GB assumes the "sudden destruction" is Armageddon what will happen, if perhaps, just to speculate, the UN's Security Council convenes an emergency session because of the threat of global war and they seem to have averted catastrophe and proclaim "peace and security" in a very pronounced way? And then KABOOM! System crashes! The Watchtower would not have a thing to say. But, the sons of day and the sons of light would recognize it as the fulfillment and a precursor to the parousia. Thus, a powerful signal would present itself discrediting the Watchtower and forcing the faithful to go the rest of the way by faith.
 
To follow-up on my post, here are a few things I am just now realizing from 1 Thessalonians 5:3. First the Peace and Security must come before the anointed are sealed, otherwise the warning would not make sense because if they are sealed they are not in danger of having that day overtake them. Now if the Peace and Security takes place before the anointed are sealed, then who suffers from sudden and inescapable destruction? The 7th beast gets revived from it’s death stroke. The Great Tribulation will certainly mean the death of many people, but not wholesale destruction. There are some who will “escape” when the scripture says they will by no means escape. So, if you think it is the governments or the globalists, then who suffers instant and inescapable destruction?
A very interesting point of view Driven. I can agree with all that you say, as per your analysis, but I cannot really offer an opinion as to whether it is correct. My problem is ambiguity. There is no certain way to read the prophetic issues of the bible (for me) and I tend to see things in monochrome. Essentially, people who can read truth within the pages of the scripture have a very comforting advantage. As for me, I need a reliable and trustworthy teacher and an indefinite time period in which to sort fact from fiction. 👍
 
I have written a great deal about how prophecies indicate that the seventh head of the beast gets whacked first. That is the sudden destruction. But the beast will revive because the tribulation is cut short.

I do not think that their saying "peace and security" will be something vague or general, such as the WT saying that there is peace between them and God. As stated already, because the UN and the political establishment already use the specific term "peace and security," it being an integral phrase of their official parlance; note, they do not even use a variation such as "security and peace," but "peace and security," exactly as is written in the NWT; it seems to me to be by divine providence that Jehovah's Witnesses have this foreknowledge and expectation. Because the GB assumes the "sudden destruction" is Armageddon what will happen, if perhaps, just to speculate, the UN's Security Council convenes an emergency session because of the threat of global war and they seem to have averted catastrophe and proclaim "peace and security" in a very pronounced way? And then KABOOM! System crashes! The Watchtower would not have a thing to say. But, the sons of day and the sons of light would recognize it as the fulfillment and a precursor to the parousia. Thus, a powerful signal would present itself discrediting the Watchtower and forcing the faithful to go the rest of the way by faith.
Okay. Now I understand what you are saying. Thank you for the explanation.
 
I'm totally confused about what's going to happen in the future and in what order. I'm getting 2 opposing interpretations from Watchtower and Robert. I'm just going to cross those prophetic bridges when I come to them and ask Jehovah to help me make the right decisions at that time.
I can honestly say that I have been in your predicament. All I can suggest is that you put what you read on this site to the test. I follow no one. The truth speaks for itself. So just as the Boreans did, chat about it, examine it, test it. Christ said that those people searching for him will recognise his voice. That is your touchstone.

I am not in support of anyone, or speaking for them, yet I never felt at ease with the watchtower. It lacked love. Even stripping away and allowing for individualism (which equally has its good points) there was a hollow ring to it. And I feel quite vindicated in my appraisal now that the watchtower is revealing the influence it is under. Remember the scripture that says truthfully, that those seeking, to them the door will be opened. It has to be true, it has to be so. It’s up to us all to recognise it when it’s thrown in our face. Also, the truth bears fruit. What fruit has watchtower ever given anyone other than a glass of milk? I think I have been here 7 years now, and though I cannot speak for others, I know the truth when I see it, and my relationship with Jehovah has become a manifest provision in my life through understanding His purpose. That is not due to man, but to Holy Spirit. But I am very, very grateful to the potters vessel that it came through. Nothing wrong in that. So take time, read, mark, learn and inwardly digest. Test it for its mettle. You won’t be disappointed. If you concentrate on the spiritual, you will not be stumbled by the odd row we have here now and again. We have to forgive each, their humanity.
 
I'll pose this question...why does the scripture says, "when ever it is they are saying peace and security, then sudden destruction will instantly be upon them." ????

This is why that wording is paramount to understanding. That sounds like Armageddon to me. The War of Armageddon is God's War against man's governments.

I'll go back and read Thessalonians and clear this all up for everyone...just give me a sec!!! LOL
 
All joking aside, I think the important thing to all of this is to remember what is and has been going on for 6000 years. Satan's challenge to God, and he doesn't "know he's already been beaten." I am convinced that the "peace and security" is the ultimate last stand by Satan! It will be his last "gauntlet" that he throws down before Jehovah, and he will think he's won. "Then sudden destruction will instantly be upon them!"

Context is King!!! We have to look at everything from the right perspective! Satan has challenged God's ruler-ship, then and now, he thought/thinks he has a case. He's in it to win it!!!!
 
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