Returning To Its Vomit- 2 Pet 2v22

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Just wanted to share some thoughts:

2 Peter 2v22 - What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Valdino’s recent posting about Ex-Wallkill Bethelite Marcus Vaughn got me thinking about the large number of JWs that revert to Christendom’s pagan tenets after leaving Watchtower (WT) for example, many begin birthday and Christmas celebrations, a belief in a trinity or that Jesus is Jehovah God, other pagan belief or perhaps they become embroiled in the darkness of Satan’s political affairs for example they jump on the climate change bandwagon (Lloyd Evans), take sides in the NATO/Ukraine v Russia debacle (Goatlike Personality, Jonas Plåt). That’s not to say having an opinion is a sin. But carrying that opinion into the realm of works, or slavery for this system, is the sin.

When i left WT- going on a year now- people in my family tried to get me to join their church. I didn’t consider that for a moment- I’d sooner have no place to worship than worship in any church belonging to Christendom.

Then there were those who asked me: Aren’t you excited to finally celebrate Christmas? I gave it a fleeting thought- but nope, not going to and didn’t happen.

Taking sides in Satan’s political darkness was never an option I availed to myself.

And so I concluded last night, that must be the common bond that we all share and it’s what Jehovah tapped into that brought us here together to fellowship with each other and learn from him.

Finally, Matt 22v35 the greatest commandment- means to love Jehovah our God with our whole heart, whole soul and whole mind. . .

Unfortunately, JWs checked their minds out to the Gov Body. That we can and do love Jehovah with our thinking ability intact, is another common bond we share. This is why we rejected the injections (think!) and will continue to.

Jehovah never asked us to or expected us to relinquish our powers of reason to anybody but him.

For this reason, we didn’t return to our vomit.
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
For this reason, we didn’t return to our vomit.
This is one of those things that defies any reasoning. Once I began to really grasp bible truths I realized that Watchtower was my last stop. I had tried the major flavors and the rest are just offshoots of those, usually with money grabbers involved. Once you know how to change a car tire, you know how to change a car tire. Barring anything that might rob a person of thinking faculties, there is no way you can unlearn what you've learned. So then really, many who try to deny the truth they've learned, are just telling themselves lies. It took me a while to understand that Watchtower could be right on pretty much everything but get prophecy wrong.

If you hurl, just walk away.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
I've been able to tell two people about what I've learned lately. Both their first response was: "But if this (WT) isn't the truth, what is?" Somehow it is unthinkable that Jehovah can be worshiped without a human led organisation.
Of course, if you can stand the lies and the pressure of the GB, I can see positive points about having a congregation and coming together for worship.

But this is something I can't agree on, Bill (sorry)
It took me a while to understand that Watchtower could be right on pretty much everything but get prophecy wrong.
Since that update 3 was released last year where they said that they put people in lock down and saved thousands of lives, while in the same update showing a Navajo sister being scared out of her mind and even cleaning her mail (subliminal message being: FEAR, FEAR!) they started to outright lie in our faces.

1. Because lock downs don't save lives, they cost lives. Suicides, abuse, drug use, alcohol abuse and mental illness all increase during lock down. So how can they state that they saved thousands of lives?
2. My husband did a 5 minute Google search. Navajo people generally have a lot of health problems, partly due to alcoholism. There is one nurse on the whole compound, so access to medical help is abysmal. If (big IF) the people she mentions die OF covid, they certainly all had underlying illnesses. So death WITH covid is far more likely.
3. These updates are very well thought out. They don't just put anyone in there, so they wanted to send us a clear message: This is terrible, be afraid. Remember an Awake cover from waaaaay back with a child holding an apple? I once saw a clip about how much detail went into choosing a cover for Awake or Watchtower. In this day and age of internet, those updates are no one take events with a GB member just talking out of the top of his head. These are well thought out, professional productions.

Not even mentioning sexual child abuse, UN, selling kingdom halls, etc.
 

Jess

Well-known member
I have been giving thought to the Harlot of Rev17-19. I think it may represent ALL organized religion, including the CCJW. Even an organization that Jehovah himself designed (Israel) was eventually ruined when humans got in the middle of things. Jeremiah 10:23 doesn't just apply to human governments. All structures where humans take the lead end up looking the same. Even though WT rejects having a clergy class, they have instituted one in every meaningful way. Printed words don't change reality. I think Rev18:4 will apply to the CCJW, too.
Yep exactly!
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
I've been able to tell two people about what I've learned lately. Both their first response was: "But if this (WT) isn't the truth, what is?" Somehow it is unthinkable that Jehovah can be worshiped without a human led organisation.
Of course, if you can stand the lies and the pressure of the GB, I can see positive points about having a congregation and coming together for worship.

But this is something I can't agree on, Bill (sorry)

Since that update 3 was released last year where they said that they put people in lock down and saved thousands of lives, while in the same update showing a Navajo sister being scared out of her mind and even cleaning her mail (subliminal message being: FEAR, FEAR!) they started to outright lie in our faces.

1. Because lock downs don't save lives, they cost lives. Suicides, abuse, drug use, alcohol abuse and mental illness all increase during lock down. So how can they state that they saved thousands of lives?
2. My husband did a 5 minute Google search. Navajo people generally have a lot of health problems, partly due to alcoholism. There is one nurse on the whole compound, so access to medical help is abysmal. If (big IF) the people she mentions die OF covid, they certainly all had underlying illnesses. So death WITH covid is far more likely.
3. These updates are very well thought out. They don't just put anyone in there, so they wanted to send us a clear message: This is terrible, be afraid. Remember an Awake cover from waaaaay back with a child holding an apple? I once saw a clip about how much detail went into choosing a cover for Awake or Watchtower. In this day and age of internet, those updates are no one take events with a GB member just talking out of the top of his head. These are well thought out, professional productions.

Not even mentioning sexual child abuse, UN, selling kingdom halls, etc.
I totally agree regarding the Navajo sister propaganda segment. That was carefully orchestrated to elicit an emotional response (notably Fear) so that they could lay out their foundation for our compliance with the WHO agenda. Overt propaganda...that's when I really started to take notice and question their direction. And you are totally correct about conditions on the Native american reservations. I was thinking the same thing during that segment. Very high levels of comorbidities. Diabetes, heart conditions, etc. from the alcohol abuse and overall depression due to the oppression those poor people have endured.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
I totally agree regarding the Navajo sister propaganda segment. That was carefully orchestrated to elicit an emotional response (notably Fear) so that they could lay out their foundation for our compliance with the WHO agenda. Overt propaganda...that's when I really started to take notice and question their direction. And you are totally correct about conditions on the Native american reservations. I was thinking the same thing during that segment. Very high levels of comorbidities. Diabetes, heart conditions, etc. from the alcohol abuse and overall depression due to the oppression those poor people have endured.
My husband looked it up straight after watching the update and we never trusted the GB after that. This was such blatant propaganda but millions of JW’s never questioned it. Same as the question: “The brothers can’t lie now, can they.” Well, that depends how you look at it. They may not lie, but how can you report a death as a covid death without an autopsy?

A 96 year old brother from my congregation is in those 26.000 covid death. THE MAN WAS NEARLY A HUNDRED YEARS OLD! Normally the flu would have killed him but they changed the name to covid and they now use it to scare you 🤦‍♀️
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
Not even mentioning sexual child abuse, UN, selling kingdom halls, etc.
I should have been more specific. I wasn’t because my comments get to be long and I rabbit hole then forget that Alice is back at the bar. I am referring strictly to the basic teachings of God. These other things are evidence of bad fruitage from a bad spirit. The teachings of Christendom are still false and dishonor God which is what makes it all the worse that the org is the way it is right now. They have the basics of truth but they must have got lost. Somewhere down the line.
 

Paz

Well-known member
Just wanted to share some thoughts:

2 Peter 2v22 - What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Valdino’s recent posting about Ex-Wallkill Bethelite Marcus Vaughn got me thinking about the large number of JWs that revert to Christendom’s pagan tenets after leaving Watchtower (WT) for example, many begin birthday and Christmas celebrations, a belief in a trinity or that Jesus is Jehovah God, other pagan belief or perhaps they become embroiled in the darkness of Satan’s political affairs for example they jump on the climate change bandwagon (Lloyd Evans), take sides in the NATO/Ukraine v Russia debacle (Goatlike Personality, Jonas Plåt). That’s not to say having an opinion is a sin. But carrying that opinion into the realm of works, or slavery for this system, is the sin.

When i left WT- going on a year now- people in my family tried to get me to join their church. I didn’t consider that for a moment- I’d sooner have no place to worship than worship in any church belonging to Christendom.

Then there were those who asked me: Aren’t you excited to finally celebrate Christmas? I gave it a fleeting thought- but nope, not going to and didn’t happen.

Taking sides in Satan’s political darkness was never an option I availed to myself.

And so I concluded last night, that must be the common bond that we all share and it’s what Jehovah tapped into that brought us here together to fellowship with each other and learn from him.

Finally, Matt 22v35 the greatest commandment- means to love Jehovah our God with our whole heart, whole soul and whole mind. . .

Unfortunately, JWs checked their minds out to the Gov Body. That we can and do love Jehovah with our thinking ability intact, is another common bond we share. This is why we rejected the injections (think!) and will continue to.

Jehovah never asked us to or expected us to relinquish our powers of reason to anybody but him.

For this reason, we didn’t return to our vomit.
Hi Jah saves ,
I quite agree how can a dedicated baptised person leave his organisation and return to Christendom as you say the vomit. His organisation will be judged but millions of our brothers continue to serve inside since it’s Jehovah through his son who will administer discipline in his own time. I have hoped it would not be severe but the GB has not changed the polices that disqualifies it from a positive inspection that is due. This is sad . Jesus worshiped his God alone it’s personal but the provision of a brotherhood helps us. Christian Regards Paz
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
I should have been more specific. I wasn’t because my comments get to be long and I rabbit hole then forget that Alice is back at the bar. I am referring strictly to the basic teachings of God. These other things are evidence of bad fruitage from a bad spirit. The teachings of Christendom are still false and dishonor God which is what makes it all the worse that the org is the way it is right now. They have the basics of truth but they must have got lost. Somewhere down the line.
I love your rambling, Bill. But I get what you mean. Sorry for the rant ☺️

Had to laugh about the Alice story though 😁
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
Just wanted to share some thoughts:

2 Peter 2v22 - What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Valdino’s recent posting about Ex-Wallkill Bethelite Marcus Vaughn got me thinking about the large number of JWs that revert to Christendom’s pagan tenets after leaving Watchtower (WT) for example, many begin birthday and Christmas celebrations, a belief in a trinity or that Jesus is Jehovah God, other pagan belief or perhaps they become embroiled in the darkness of Satan’s political affairs for example they jump on the climate change bandwagon (Lloyd Evans), take sides in the NATO/Ukraine v Russia debacle (Goatlike Personality, Jonas Plåt). That’s not to say having an opinion is a sin. But carrying that opinion into the realm of works, or slavery for this system, is the sin.

When i left WT- going on a year now- people in my family tried to get me to join their church. I didn’t consider that for a moment- I’d sooner have no place to worship than worship in any church belonging to Christendom.

Then there were those who asked me: Aren’t you excited to finally celebrate Christmas? I gave it a fleeting thought- but nope, not going to and didn’t happen.

Taking sides in Satan’s political darkness was never an option I availed to myself.

And so I concluded last night, that must be the common bond that we all share and it’s what Jehovah tapped into that brought us here together to fellowship with each other and learn from him.

Finally, Matt 22v35 the greatest commandment- means to love Jehovah our God with our whole heart, whole soul and whole mind. . .

Unfortunately, JWs checked their minds out to the Gov Body. That we can and do love Jehovah with our thinking ability intact, is another common bond we share. This is why we rejected the injections (think!) and will continue to.

Jehovah never asked us to or expected us to relinquish our powers of reason to anybody but him.

For this reason, we didn’t return to our vomit.
Bible isn’t very clear on the whole birthday celebration thing.
Christmas has become a commercialized day where many families find it convenient to get together and eat a meal and watch football.
Most holidays have reverted into such.
Get togethers and meals with no particular emphasis on religion.
Can’t see Jehovah condemning to eternal damnation such ones.
I guess if you view it as a pagan ritual and then do it, it’s a sin.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
yes @PJ54

when i was stumbled out (i no longer use the term “woke up” or “wake up”) of WT, it would be four months before i would stop logging on to Zoom, because i wasn’t getting anything out of the Zoom meetings except for more trauma, esp the mid week meetings because they were announcing at every mid week meeting that the injections contained no blood (WHO WAS ASKING??? i wasn't!!) and it was very upsetting to hear.

When i finally got the courage to stop going to Zoom meetings, people began texting me- people in my hall that never gave me the time of day before.

the final straw was when the elders came to my house- I felt like i was fleeing for my life. It never felt afraid like that before. I did speak with them prior to my departure and i brought up my deep concerns and fears about the injections not just for myself but for the brotherhood- one elder accused me of having conspiracy theories while the other one was texting (reading texts) during our formal sit down. I was so offended.
 

Jess

Well-known member
Yes great point and great scripture! I am the only Witness in my entire extended family and my family is extremely against Pharma and vaccines. So when they asked me how things were going with the Org and the pandemic, I didn't hold back in telling them my experiences of basically being gaslighted and outcasted. They were so hopeful that I would come back to holiday celebrations with the family. My sister was like "Great! Now you can go get a Christmas tree!" Yea, that will be a NOPE.

Anyhow, sidenote. My family came from a Presbyterian background initially and (now they don't attend any religious institutions). But anyway, the other night it got me thinking about growing up a Presbyterian. For 30 years or so, I never even knew what the "Presbytery" was. They had so little involvement that the average church goer didn't even know they existed. But also, they did not have very much Truth either. When I left the Presbyterian Church and began my studies with the Witnesses in 2013, I barely knew of the Governing Body so I didn't see it as a threat. So much has changed in such a short time :cry:
 

Jess

Well-known member
And one more thing...I know Kim made a post about it. But even though I am currently stumbled, I am forever grateful to have a REAL relationship with Jehovah and his Son as well as wonderful scriptural foundation and appreciation that I never would have had without the efforts and organized preaching of the Witnesses 🙏
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
perhaps. But i have no desire to celebrate my birthdays.
Age or time seems to make the counting of our years to be pointless except for collecting a pension or things like that. Never be ashamed to accept a senior discount. It's not much different than a military discount. Birthdays in the modern world turned into a thing for children. It's just as easy to have a special day of fun and gifts without the need to tie it to a specific day.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Yes great point and great scripture! I am the only Witness in my entire extended family and my family is extremely against Pharma and vaccines. So when they asked me how things were going with the Org and the pandemic, I didn't hold back in telling them my experiences of basically being gaslighted and outcasted. They were so hopeful that I would come back to holiday celebrations with the family. My sister was like "Great! Now you can go get a Christmas tree!" Yea, that will be a NOPE.

Anyhow, sidenote. My family came from a Presbyterian background initially and (now they don't attend any religious institutions). But anyway, the other night it got me thinking about growing up a Presbyterian. For 30 years or so, I never even knew what the "Presbytery" was. They had so little involvement that the average church goer didn't even know they existed. But also, they did not have very much Truth either. When I left the Presbyterian Church and began my studies with the Witnesses in 2013, I barely knew of the Governing Body so I didn't see it as a threat. So much has changed in such a short time :cry:
me too Jess, I’m the only witness far and wide in my family except for one adult son currently shunning me, who is yet to be baptized.

Just because you’re stumbled out of the org does NOT mean you unlearn these truths or that these truths no longer matter.

We have a lot in common- i grew up Protestant, having a “P” on my little ID bracelet (remember those?) but little to no involvement with any particular church or denomination. Once a year on Easter, my grandmother or mother took me to church. when i started my bible study in 1994 in the Live Forever book, i was a very clean slate. haha

wow jess - you came in a year after they made the change that the Gov Body being the sole faithful and discreet slave. the FFDS used to include all the chosen 144K up until 2012. and Unitied Nations resolution 16/18 (2011). And you’re right, even from 2013 to now this org is unrecognizable.
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
yes @PJ54

when i was stumbled out (i no longer use the term “woke up” or “wake up”) of WT, it would be four months before i would stop logging on to Zoom, because i wasn’t getting anything out of the Zoom meetings except for more trauma, esp the mid week meetings because they were announcing at every mid week meeting that the injections contained no blood (WHO WAS ASKING??? i wasn't!!) and it was very upsetting to hear.

When i finally got the courage to stop going to Zoom meetings, people began texting me- people in my hall that never gave me the time of day before.

the final straw was when the elders came to my house- I felt like i was fleeing for my life. It never felt afraid like that before. I did speak with them prior to my departure and i brought up my deep concerns and fears about the injections not just for myself but for the brotherhood- one elder accused me of having conspiracy theories while the other one was texting (reading texts) during our formal sit down. I was so offended.
me too Jess, I’m the only witness far and wide in my family except for one adult son currently shunning me, who is yet to be baptized.

Just because you’re stumbled out of the org does NOT mean you unlearn these truths or that these truths no longer matter.

We have a lot in common- i grew up Protestant, having a “P” on my little ID bracelet (remember those?) but little to no involvement with any particular church or denomination. Once a year on Easter, my grandmother or mother took me to church. when i started my bible study in 1994 in the Live Forever book, i was a very clean slate. haha

wow jess - you came in a year after they made the change that the Gov Body being the sole faithful and discreet slave. the FFDS used to include all the chosen 144K up until 2012. and Unitied Nations resolution 16/18 (2011). And you’re right, even from 2013 to now this org is unrecognizable.
 
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