Update on meeting with the Elders 12/28/21

Status
Not open for further replies.

SusanB

Well-known member
Hi All,
I said that I would keep you updated and I want to do that. But first I think I need to post a copy of the letter that my husband and I sent to the Elders in our congregation. It’s a bit long but it’s attached for you to read it.

After the initial pleasantries, there were only 2 scriptures they used to persuade us. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 “For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ. For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit”

We agree with the above scripture but it is by following the teachings of Christ, as stated in the bible, that we are part of his body. Jesus is the one who identifies his body and it doesn’t change our belief that the Governing Body has become apostate and is now teaching unscriptural ideas, such as the teaching that they are Jehovah’s channel of direction.

And, John 6:48-69, which is too long to include but our response was that really all false religion could use these same scriptures to keep people in the fold. I feel they are a misapplication and I feel that it adds more evidence that the Governing Body has elevated themselves to the same authority and position as Jesus, which is idolatry.

So, they were taking our temperature and they will meet with the other Elders and let us know what they decide to do.

Thanks to you all for the comfort that I find in “talking” to you all on this forum and the previous forum.
 

Attachments

  • RevisedLetter122821.pdf
    257.9 KB · Views: 117

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Hi All,
I said that I would keep you updated and I want to do that. But first I think I need to post a copy of the letter that my husband and I sent to the Elders in our congregation. It’s a bit long but it’s attached for you to read it.

After the initial pleasantries, there were only 2 scriptures they used to persuade us. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 “For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ. For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit”

We agree with the above scripture but it is by following the teachings of Christ, as stated in the bible, that we are part of his body. Jesus is the one who identifies his body and it doesn’t change our belief that the Governing Body has become apostate and is now teaching unscriptural ideas, such as the teaching that they are Jehovah’s channel of direction.

And, John 6:48-69, which is too long to include but our response was that really all false religion could use these same scriptures to keep people in the fold. I feel they are a misapplication and I feel that it adds more evidence that the Governing Body has elevated themselves to the same authority and position as Jesus, which is idolatry.

So, they were taking our temperature and they will meet with the other Elders and let us know what they decide to do.

Thanks to you all for the comfort that I find in “talking” to you all on this forum and the previous for
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
That was a great letter. You made valid points.

It’s intersting they chose those sets of scriptures- and i have to assume they’re adhereing to a check list much like a pilot’s many check lists to complete different tasks, situations or aircraft upsets that can happen during flight. The elder’s check list is a throughput that pointed them to those verses. i used to think elders were driven by their hearts and thought for themselves but they don’t, I realized that after i read Crisis of Conscience and it’s only gotten worse with the passage of time. JWs have no autonomous or contemporaneous thought- they can’t even engage in informal witness, all they are anymore are placeholders for JW dot org.

Are you prepared for the worst? Saying that the gov body has apostatized was courageous and it needed to be said in this instance otherwise you would be playing a frustrating game of cat and mouse. Oh and, btw it’s true too and that’s the important thing. that’s the point.

I was in a situation like yours with my elders for about a week- i couldn’t take the pressure so i disassociated to make a clean break and to be done with it. I saw where you mentioned that you did not want to disassociate and i respect that. You shouldn’t have to disassociate if you don’t want to. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. If the elders move to disfellowship you, i would warn them not to slander your good name(s) in any way. You are still a witness of Jehovah and they have no right to publicly announce that you are not. if they make the move to df, I would sternly warn them that you intend to consult legal advice if they publicly slander your names.

Are you feeling good about this? it had to be done.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
That was a great letter. You made valid points.

It’s intersting they chose those sets of scriptures- and i have to assume they’re adhereing to a check list much like a pilot’s many check lists to complete different tasks, situations or aircraft upsets that can happen during flight. The elder’s check list is a throughput that pointed them to those verses. i used to think elders were driven by their hearts and thought for themselves but they don’t, I realized that after i read Crisis of Conscience and it’s only gotten worse with the passage of time. JWs have no autonomous or contemporaneous thought- they can’t even engage in informal witness, all they are anymore are placeholders for JW dot org.

Are you prepared for the worst? Saying that the gov body has apostatized was courageous and it needed to be said in this instance otherwise you would be playing a frustrating game of cat and mouse. Oh and, btw it’s true too and that’s the important thing. that’s the point.

I was in a situation like yours with my elders for about a week- i couldn’t take the pressure so i disassociated to make a clean break and to be done with it. I saw where you mentioned that you did not want to disassociate and i respect that. You shouldn’t have to disassociate if you don’t want to. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. If the elders move to disfellowship you, i would warn them not to slander your good name(s) in any way. You are still a witness of Jehovah and they have no right to publicly announce that you are not. if they make the move to df, I would sternly warn them that you intend to consult legal advice if they publicly slander your names.

Are you feeling good about this? it had to be done.
Actually, I do feel I am doing what is right. They cannot hurt me even if they do slander me. We will all render an account to God and I just hope they consider how they will render their account to him. They did not dispute a single thing in the letter but a general, “we just don’t agree with your letter.”. Yes, we are both prepared to be df’d. You must realize that when I became one of Jehovah‘s Witnesses I lost my entire family, even my children who have all accused me of being in a cult. I honestly argued with them and I still don’t feel that I was in a cult but now it has become a cult. There were some signals during the last few years but nothing is perfect and so I made excuses. This is so blatant that I can no longer participate and support and I cannot remain silent. I do think it is now a cult, meaning following the direction of imperfect men who say they have divine direction but they do not.

If they df us it will cause a stir in the congregation because I was very active at the meetings probably until Lett’s video update. And, I have talked honestly with enough of the friends that they will know why we were df’d. So, I am resigned to letting Jehovah’s will be done.

I can tell you I am so happy now and my zeal is the same as when I first learned the truth. I am learning Robert’s explanation of prophecies and they have the “ring of truth.”. So, this is an exciting time for me. I treasure truth, good, bad or indifferent.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Actually, I do feel I am doing what is right. They cannot hurt me even if they do slander me. We will all render an account to God and I just hope they consider how they will render their account to him. They did not dispute a single thing in the letter but a general, “we just don’t agree with your letter.”. Yes, we are both prepared to be df’d. You must realize that when I became one of Jehovah‘s Witnesses I lost my entire family, even my children who have all accused me of being in a cult. I honestly argued with them and I still don’t feel that I was in a cult but now it has become a cult. There were some signals during the last few years but nothing is perfect and so I made excuses. This is so blatant that I can no longer participate and support and I cannot remain silent. I do think it is now a cult, meaning following the direction of imperfect men who say they have divine direction but they do not.

If they df us it will cause a stir in the congregation because I was very active at the meetings probably until Lett’s video update. And, I have talked honestly with enough of the friends that they will know why we were df’d. So, I am resigned to letting Jehovah’s will be done.

I can tell you I am so happy now and my zeal is the same as when I first learned the truth. I am learning Robert’s explanation of prophecies and they have the “ring of truth.”. So, this is an exciting time for me. I treasure truth, good, bad or indifferent.
yep i totally agree. ask yourself how many JWs are sitting at home thinking the same things as you and your husband but are too afraid or too whatever to stand up, and they so just go with it. It’s a dark place to be. Those who are too indoctrinated to care are in a dark place.

JWs are taught their entire lives to be no part of the world, yet now the gov body is ordering them to do as the world says, under regulations that do not exist, and all according to a lie.

Jehovah is smiling down at you for showing love for his beautiful name!
 

SusanB

Well-known member
yep i totally agree. ask yourself how many JWs are sitting at home thinking the same things as you and your husband but are too afraid or too whatever to stand up, and they so just go with it. It’s a dark place to be. Those who are too indoctrinated to care are in a dark place.

JWs are taught their entire lives to be no part of the world, yet now the gov body is ordering them to do as the world says, under regulations that do not exist, and all according to a lie.

Jehovah is smiling down at you for showing love for his beautiful name!
Thank you for your encouragement!!🌺
 

TravellinRox

Well-known member
Thanks for keeping us updated, Driven! It is so encouraging to see others take their stand just like so many of us have. This forum has been such a blessing! To be able to express our convictions and not be shunned for it. Your letter was absolutely excellent and I know that Jehovah and Jesus are so proud of you two. I keep thinking about the blind man that Jesus healed. After he was thrown out of the synagogue for refusing to cow In submission to the Pharisees, Jesus came around and asked him, ”Are you putting faith in the Son of Man?” That man had Jesus’ approval for the stand he took …and so do you and your husband. Bravo! Your example makes my heart sing!!👏🏼💓
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Hi All,
I said that I would keep you updated and I want to do that. But first I think I need to post a copy of the letter that my husband and I sent to the Elders in our congregation. It’s a bit long but it’s attached for you to read it.

Can you copy and past the .pdf text for me? I make it a habit not to open .pdf files simply for the fact they can contain script other than the original text that can be harmful to computers. Not that you are doing that it’s just a precaution I try to implement in forums.
 

Ana

Well-known member
Hola a todos,
Dije que te mantendría informado y quiero hacerlo. Pero primero creo que necesito publicar una copia de la carta que mi esposo y yo enviamos a los Ancianos de nuestra congregación. Es un poco largo pero está adjunto para que lo lea.

Después de las cortesías iniciales, solo hubo 2 escrituras que usaron para persuadirnos. 1 Corintios 12: 12-13 “Porque así como el cuerpo es uno, pero tiene muchos miembros, pero todos los miembros de ese cuerpo, aunque muchos, son un solo cuerpo, así también el Cristo. Porque por un solo espíritu fuimos todos bautizados en un cuerpo, sean judíos o griegos, sean esclavos o libres, y a todos se nos dio a beber de un solo espíritu "

Estamos de acuerdo con la escritura anterior, pero es al seguir las enseñanzas de Cristo, como se indica en la Biblia, que somos parte de su cuerpo. Jesús es quien identifica su cuerpo y eso no cambia nuestra creencia de que el Cuerpo Gobernante se ha vuelto apóstata y ahora está enseñando ideas no bíblicas, como la enseñanza de que son el canal de dirección de Jehová.

Y Juan 6: 48-69, que es demasiado largo para incluirlo, pero nuestra respuesta fue que realmente toda religión falsa podría usar estas mismas escrituras para mantener a la gente en el redil. Siento que son una mala aplicación y creo que agrega más evidencia de que el Cuerpo Gobernante se ha elevado a la misma autoridad y posición que Jesús, que es idolatría.

Entonces, nos estaban tomando la temperatura y se reunirán con los otros Ancianos y nos harán saber qué deciden hacer.

Gracias a todos por el consuelo que encuentro al "hablar" con todos ustedes en este foro y en el foro anterior.
¡¡¡Hola!!! Perdón por no responderte en inglés, uso Crome con su traductor en línea para leer este foro, así como lo he hecho con la página post de Robert desde hace años. Siento mucho la situación que os toca vivir con respecto a los ancianos. Nosotros la vivimos de niños y las consecuencias fueron atroces. Tuvimos que madurar mucho para comprender y dejar se sufrir. Y es que tenemos al Dios de inmenso poder contemplando desde el cielo lo que cada uno hacemos, y eso en si mismo, es un privilegio !! El no se olvida de ninguno de nosotros. Nunca en nuestra experiencia de vida sentimos que Jehová nos abandonaba, nos ayuda de diversas maneras, como por ejemplo aquí y ahora, uniendo un rebaño esparcido por todo el mundo. Ezequiel 34: 11-31. Es importante contemplar los sucesos from fuera, en nuestro caso como cristianos desde arriba, con la mirada celestial. Y si lo haces colocas los acontecimientos en la línea profética y eso en este momento, es una gran expectación, (Rom 8:18). Tenemos el privilegio de no tener el velo de ceguera que tiene la gran mayoría y en este mundo Satánico eso tiene un precio. Así que si sufrimos por la verdad es motivo de alegría !! 1Cor. 12: 14-31 habla del cuerpo a los ojos de Jehová. El versículo 22 dice: antes bien, con mucho el caso es que los miembros del cuerpo que parecen ser más débiles SOn NECESARIOS, y las partes del cuerpo que creemos que son menos honorables, A ESTAS LAS CERCAMOS DE MAS ABUNDANTE HONRA. Quiero decirte con esto, querido hermano que el que juzga es Jehova, y más en estos tiempos. Se acerca su gran día !!! Es un gran momento para el cielo, aunque aquí venga lo peor desde arriba lo saben y nos van a proteger en todo momento si permanecemos firmes !! La paz de Jehová estara con nosotros. Aguante !!! Todo nuestro cariño de Ana y familia.❣️
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Ana Translation:

Hello!!! Sorry for not answering you in English, I use Crome with your online translator to read this forum, just as I have done with Robert's post page for years. I am very sorry for the situation you have to live with respect to the elderly. We lived it as children and the consequences were atrocious. We had to mature a lot to understand and let yourself suffer. And it is that we have the God of immense power contemplating from heaven what we each do, and that in itself, is a privilege !! He doesn't forget any of us. Never in our life experience do we feel that Jehovah abandoned us, helps us in various ways, such as here and now, uniting a flock scattered throughout the world. Ezekiel 34:11-31. It is important to contemplate events from outside, in our case as Christians from above, with the heavenly gaze. And if you do, you put events in the prophetic line and that at this moment, it is a great expectation, (Rom 8:18). We have the privilege of not having the veil of blindness that the vast majority has and in this Satanic world that has a price. So if we suffer for the truth it is cause for joy !! 1Cor. 12:14-31 speaks of the body in the eyes of Jehovah. Verse 22 says: rather, by far the fact is that the members of the body that seem to be weaker ARE NECESSARY, and the parts of the body that we believe are less honorable, TO THESE WE CLOSE TO MORE ABUNDANT HONOR. I want to tell you by this, dear brother that the one who judges is Jehovah, and more so in these times. His big day is coming!!! It's a great time for heaven, although the worst comes here from above they know it and they will protect us at all times if we stand firm !! The peace of Jehovah will be with us. Hold on!!! All our love for Ana and family.
 

Ana

Well-known member
Ana traducción:

¡¡¡Hola!!! Perdón por no responderte en inglés, utilizo Crome con tu traductor en línea para leer este foro, tal como lo he hecho con la página de publicaciones de Robert durante años. Lamento mucho la situación que tiene que vivir con respecto a las personas mayores. Lo vivimos de niños y las consecuencias fueron atroces. Tuvimos que madurar mucho para comprender y dejarnos sufrir. Y es que tenemos al Dios de inmenso poder contemplando desde el cielo lo que hacemos cada uno, y eso de por sí, es un privilegio !! No se olvida de ninguno de nosotros. Nunca en nuestra experiencia de vida sentimos que Jehová nos abandonó, nos ayuda de diversas formas, como aquí y ahora, uniendo un rebaño esparcido por todo el mundo. Ezequiel 34: 11-31. Es importante contemplar los acontecimientos desde fuera, en nuestro caso como cristianos desde arriba, con la mirada celestial. Y si lo haces pones los eventos en la línea profética y eso en este momento, es una gran expectativa, (Rom. 8:18). Tenemos el privilegio de no tener el velo de la ceguera que tiene la gran mayoría y en este mundo satánico eso tiene un precio. Entonces, si sufrimos por la verdad, ¡es motivo de alegría! 1Cor. 12: 14-31 habla del cuerpo a los ojos de Jehová. El versículo 22 dice: más bien, el hecho con mucho es que los miembros del cuerpo que parecen ser más débiles SON NECESARIOS, y las partes del cuerpo que creemos que son menos honorables, A ESTOS ESTAMOS CERCA DE MÁS ABUNDANTE HONOR. Con esto quiero decirte, querido hermano, que el que juzga es Jehová, y más en estos tiempos. Se acerca su gran día !!! Es un gran momento para el cielo, aunque lo peor llega aquí desde arriba lo saben y nos protegerán en todo momento si nos mantenemos firmes !! La paz de Jehová estará con nosotros. ¡¡¡Esperar!!! Todo nuestro cariño por Ana y su familia.
Gracias😊
 

Ana

Well-known member
Ana traducción:

¡¡¡Hola!!! Perdón por no responderte en inglés, utilizo Crome con tu traductor en línea para leer este foro, tal como lo he hecho con la página de publicaciones de Robert durante años. Lamento mucho la situación que tiene que vivir con respecto a las personas mayores. Lo vivimos de niños y las consecuencias fueron atroces. Tuvimos que madurar mucho para comprender y dejarnos sufrir. Y es que tenemos al Dios de inmenso poder contemplando desde el cielo lo que hacemos cada uno, y eso de por sí, es un privilegio !! No se olvida de ninguno de nosotros. Nunca en nuestra experiencia de vida sentimos que Jehová nos abandonó, nos ayuda de diversas formas, como aquí y ahora, uniendo un rebaño esparcido por todo el mundo. Ezequiel 34: 11-31. Es importante contemplar los acontecimientos desde fuera, en nuestro caso como cristianos desde arriba, con la mirada celestial. Y si lo haces pones los eventos en la línea profética y eso en este momento, es una gran expectativa, (Rom. 8:18). Tenemos el privilegio de no tener el velo de la ceguera que tiene la gran mayoría y en este mundo satánico eso tiene un precio. Entonces, si sufrimos por la verdad, ¡es motivo de alegría! 1Cor. 12: 14-31 habla del cuerpo a los ojos de Jehová. El versículo 22 dice: más bien, el hecho con mucho es que los miembros del cuerpo que parecen ser más débiles SON NECESARIOS, y las partes del cuerpo que creemos que son menos honorables, A ESTOS ESTAMOS CERCA DE MÁS ABUNDANTE HONOR. Con esto quiero decirte, querido hermano, que el que juzga es Jehová, y más en estos tiempos. Se acerca su gran día !!! Es un gran momento para el cielo, aunque lo peor llega aquí desde arriba lo saben y nos protegerán en todo momento si nos mantenemos firmes !! La paz de Jehová estará con nosotros. ¡¡¡Esperar !!! Todo nuestro cariño por Ana y su familia.
Latraduccion
Gracias por la traducción, es tan gracioso ver como traduce automáticamente algunas palabras, jaja...alguna sugerencia de palabra para los que llevan la delantera en futuras traducciones?? Personas mayores no es muy correcto que digamos😉
 
P

Posstot

Guest
That was a great letter. You made valid points.

It’s intersting they chose those sets of scriptures- and i have to assume they’re adhereing to a check list much like a pilot’s many check lists to complete different tasks, situations or aircraft upsets that can happen during flight. The elder’s check list is a throughput that pointed them to those verses. i used to think elders were driven by their hearts and thought for themselves but they don’t, I realized that after i read Crisis of Conscience and it’s only gotten worse with the passage of time. JWs have no autonomous or contemporaneous thought- they can’t even engage in informal witness, all they are anymore are placeholders for JW dot org.

Are you prepared for the worst? Saying that the gov body has apostatized was courageous and it needed to be said in this instance otherwise you would be playing a frustrating game of cat and mouse. Oh and, btw it’s true too and that’s the important thing. that’s the point.

I was in a situation like yours with my elders for about a week- i couldn’t take the pressure so i disassociated to make a clean break and to be done with it. I saw where you mentioned that you did not want to disassociate and i respect that. You shouldn’t have to disassociate if you don’t want to. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. If the elders move to disfellowship you, i would warn them not to slander your good name(s) in any way. You are still a witness of Jehovah and they have no right to publicly announce that you are not. if they make the move to df, I would sternly warn them that you intend to consult legal advice if they publicly slander your names.

Are you feeling good about this? it had to be done.
People in the WT used to be JWs, now they are JW impersonators misrepresenting JWs, leaving us no option but to disfellowship them.
 

Ireneo

Well-known member
Hola, en realidad no pueden echarte por pensar que GB ha apostatado
La expulsión es solo si les dices a los demás lo que piensas.
En ese caso dirán que estás generando división
Ese es el motivo de la expulsión
Yo tambien soy como Ana, no se ingles
espero que me entiendas
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Hola, en realidad no pueden echarte por pensar que GB ha apostatado
La expulsión es solo si les dices a los demás lo que piensas.
En ese caso dirán que estás generando división
Ese es el motivo de la expulsión
Yo tambien soy como Ana, no se ingles
espero que me entiendas
good point- Ireneo says they can’t kick you out for just thinking the GB has turned, if you haven’t told others. so, they can’t accuse you of creating divisions.

tienes razón, Ireneo. es cierto que pueden echarte por crear divisiones si no se lo has dicho a otros. ¿Pero construirán otra razón?
 

Ireneo

Well-known member
Buen punto: Ireneo dice que no pueden echarte por solo pensar que el GB ha cambiado, si no se lo has dicho a los demás. por lo tanto, no pueden acusarlo de crear divisiones.

tienes razón, Ireneo. es cierto que pueden echarte por crear divisiones si no se lo has dicho a otros. ¿Pero construirán otra razón?
El caso es que los ancianos empezarán a hablar con sus contactos y amigos.
Intentarán encontrar pruebas de que han hablado.
De todos modos, no deberían entablar conversaciones privadas, pero a veces lo hacen.
Tienen que tener cuidado con con quién hablas.
Es cierto que es desagradable pero no todo el mundo te entenderá y te prejuzgará.
tienes que ver lo positivo.

10 “Bienaventurados los que han sido perseguidos + por causa de la justicia, puesto que el reino de los cielos les pertenece.

11 “Bienaventurado eres cuando te reprochan + y te persiguen + y falsamente dicen toda clase de maldades contra ti por causa de mí. 12 Regocíjate y salta de gozo, + porque tu recompensa + grande es en los cielos; porque de esa manera persiguieron a los profetas + delante de ustedes.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
El caso es que los ancianos empezarán a hablar con sus contactos y amigos.
Intentarán encontrar pruebas de que han hablado.
De todos modos, no deberían entablar conversaciones privadas, pero a veces lo hacen.
Tienen que tener cuidado con con quién hablas.
Es cierto que es desagradable pero no todo el mundo te entenderá y te prejuzgará.
tienes que ver lo positivo.

10 “Bienaventurados los que han sido perseguidos + por causa de la justicia, puesto que el reino de los cielos les pertenece.

11 “Bienaventurado eres cuando te reprochan + y te persiguen + y falsamente dicen toda clase de maldades contra ti por causa de mí. 12 Regocíjate y salta de gozo, + porque tu recompensa + grande es en los cielos; porque de esa manera persiguieron a los profetas + delante de ustedes.
así que es una caza de brujas?

he’s say the elders will start asking around, find out who you guys told your ideas to. i said it’s a witch hunt?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top