Ireneo
Well-known member
haha if you wrote it well in Spanish.
"witch hunt" and add "bonfire"
Update on meeting with the Elders 12/28/21
- Thread starter SusanB
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"witch hunt" and add "bonfire"
SusanB
Well-known member
Yes, but it is too long for one post and so I’ll break it up into 3 posts:
Part 1:
December 24, 2021
Dear Brothers,
Current events and communications from the Governing Body have caused us to arrive at the decision that we cannot support what we view as an apostasy from true worship, as described in the Bible and as exemplified by Jesus and the first century christians. Even the bible principles as taught and published prior to COVID 19 are being violated without comment or reason by the very ones who previously promoted those principles. See paragraph 12, Chapter 7 of the “Remain in God’s Love” book: “Does Jehovah really care about our decisions in matters of conscience? Yes, he does. Jehovah is interested in our thoughts and motives. (Read Proverbs 17:3; 24:12.) Since that is the case, when we are making a decision involving medical treatment, we need to pray for Jehovah’s guidance and then research the treatment. After that, we use our Bible-trained conscience to make our decision. We should not ask others what they would do if they were in our situation, nor should others try to influence our decision. Each Christian will “carry his own load.”—Galatians 6:5; Romans 14:12“
We want to make clear that we recognize that, up to this point, Jehovah has used the organization to work in accordance with his purposes and will. We do NOT want to disassociate from the organization because we are confident that Jehovah will clean up his organization. The organization belongs to Jehovah and his son and not to the Governing Body nor to any one of us. But to remain free from blood-guilt and free from apostasy ourselves, we will no longer participate in the meetings nor in organized field service. We will fulfill our dedication to God by telling people the truth about his word and how it applies to the world we are experiencing today as well as the hope for the future. 1 Timothy 2:4: “..whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”
We have been observing for many months that the Governing Body is promoting the vaccine as safe, as something we should do and even tying it to giving a “good witness” as per Brother Morris in update #10. A similar issue faced the first century christians when they considered another medical procedure, circumcision, which had the added challenge of having once been required for true worship. That changed with the death of Jesus and the conversion of non-jewish people. As per God’s word, those who promoted circumcision were causing divisions, see Titus 1:10, 11:“For there are many rebellious men, profitless talkers, and deceivers, especially those who adhere to the circumcision. It is necessary to shut their mouths, because these very men keep on subverting entire households by teaching things they should not for the sake of dishonest gain.” And Acts 15:1 & 2: “Now some men came down from Ju·deʹa and began to teach the brothers: “Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” But after quite a bit of dissension and disputing by Paul and Barʹna·bas with them, it was arranged for Paul, Barʹna·bas, and some of the others to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem regarding this issue.”
The result was that the first century brothers determined what the necessary things were at Acts 15:28 & 29: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” The congregations were not divided into groups of circumcised versus non-circumcised. Peter was criticized for separating himself from the uncircumcised at Galatians 2:12: “For before certain men from James arrived, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcised class.” Today, we are seeing vaccinated friends who will not allow their unvaccinated relatives to visit them and they will not visit their unvaccinated relatives. Kingdom Halls are being opened only to the vaccinated ones. Divisions are occurring because the Governing Body is promoting and mandating the vaccine, which is unscriptural. We have moved very far from the necessary things!
The Governing Body says that the proof Jehovah is directing his organization is the increase in meeting attendance and attendance at the Memorial. By that standard Muslims could claim to be directed by Jehovah because Islam is actually the fastest growing religion in today’s world. But the question we have is that we wonder if the Governing Body is implying that Jehovah has given them divine inspiration in recommending the vaccine. Unfortunately, we know that many of the friends believe that and yet if that were true Jehovah would give us a clear statement on that direction, along with proof the vaccine has his approval. 1 Corinthians 14:8: “For if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle?”
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SusanB
Well-known member
Part 2:
One principle that we feel very strongly about is that to protect all of us from becoming followers of men and becoming involved in a cult was to stick closely to Jesus’ teachings as set out in the Bible. Any deviation from those teachings is suspect, see 2 John 9: “Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.”
Now, let’s look at the real proof as to whether or not Jehovah is backing the vaccine (or even the direction of the vaccine). We have seen many injuries and we know of some deaths too. Brother K*** and Sister B** both had appendicitis, a known vaccine side-effect. Sister U** had to have a hysterectomy, likely because of female issues that are a known side-effect of the vaccine. Brother P** had a bad case of shingles and shingles is a known side-effect of the vaccine. Brother C**’s brother had a stroke, another known side effect. Sister T**’s brother had a stroke and a heart attack, known side-effects. Sister F** in the P** congregation had a stroke, a known side-effect. A relatively young brother in Kauai dropped dead while in Zoom field service and sudden death is a known side-effect of the vaccine. These are only the injuries and death that we are aware of in Hawaii! Clearly Jehovah has not given his approval of the vaccine or there would be no injuries or deaths. We don’t understand how the friends and elders can see these injuries and some deaths and say nothing to protect the sheep. We know that we cannot remain silent. As one brother from Argentina said, we are Jehovah’s sheep not Satan’s laboratory rats.
The video updates are a lesson in manipulation. Why would the Governing Body say we have free choice and yet then say that Jehovah has directed them to recommend the vaccine, taking the vaccine leads to a good witness and we should TRUST the brothers. So, they are speaking out of 2 sides of their mouths. Aren’t they conversely implying that not taking the vaccine is not a good witness and shows we don’t trust them? Very confusing message! Even in the update #8 with Brother Lett, he begins by saying that he will talk to us about COVID and the vaccine because “lives are at stake.” But he ends the video by downplaying the seriousness and saying that we will have to face much more serious things than COVID/vaccines. Yes, there are things more serious than losing your life and that is being disloyal to Jehovah. This vaccine issue is being presented all around the world at the same time with the same diabolical forces at work. See 1 Timothy 3:8: “Ministerial servants should likewise be serious, not double-tongued,not indulging in a lot of wine, not greedy of dishonest gain…”. (Footnote on double-tongued is deceitful in speech)
Another issue the Governing Body is using to support the vaccine is Romans 13:1 : “Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.” Except in the video they left out that our obedience is relative. So, who are the superior authorities? There are many, are there not? We have international law, federal authorities, state governments and local governments. Are they all in agreement regarding masks and vaccines? No, they are not. If we pick and choose which governmental authority we are going to obey, does that mean we have taken sides politically? Confusion of this type is what you would expect from false religion aka Babylon the Great, not the truth from Jehovah.
Now what do we know about the vaccine and COVID scientifically? What has now come to light about COVID 19 is that it is a bio-weapon and is a lab engineered spike protein virus that includes DNA from Mad Cow disease (prion disease), Ebola and HIV. COVID 19 is the spike protein that was engineered to attach to human cells via the ACE2 receptor, which was accomplished through what the world calls “gain of function” science. Whether it was released on purpose from Wuhan, China has not been proven, but what has been proven is that the Moderna’s vaccine for COVID 19 was in the works before we knew anything about COVID 19.
All of the available vaccines have been issued without going through the normal safety testing period, which won’t be completed until the year 2023. The vaccines use technology called a lipid nanoparticle that has never before been used in humans. This lipid nanoparticle protects the “attenuated” spike protein so that it can get inside your body and stay intact in the process. The spike protein then tricks your body into becoming a spike protein factory. The spike protein is a toxin or poison to humans. It causes inflammation and inflammation causes many different kinds of illness including myocarditis, pericarditis, neurological problems, etc. The vaccine ingredients are supposed to stay in the arm muscle but they have now discovered that it does not stay in the muscle but in fact the lipid nanoparticle (and spike protein) travels to every organ of the body including the heart and the brain. There have been 6 or 7 cases of prion disease (mad cow disease) already
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SusanB
Well-known member
Part 3 of 4
reported in VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). In one of those cases the patient presented prion disease and died from it within 6 weeks of getting the vaccine.
Over 20,000 vaccine deaths have already been reported in VAERS and many people believe that it is under-reported by a factor of 5 to 41 times what the actual deaths are. Even the number of 20,000+ deaths is more deaths than from all other vaccines combined since they have been keeping records of vaccines.
Dr. Fleming of TheFlemingMethod.com shows on video that if you take a sample of healthy blood and add one drop of the Pfizer vaccine, it instantly desaturates the blood, meaning it removes all of the oxygen from the blood and the blood cells die. Scientists from all over the world have discovered that the vaccines damage your immune system. A vaccinated person can still get the disease COVID 19 and is still infectious to other people. So, the only benefit from the vaccines is that the vaccinated person will hopefully not get seriously ill from COVID 19. But that benefit is only against the Alpha and Delta variants and the protection wanes or disappears after 4 to 6 months. In fact, the vaccinated are MORE likely to get seriously ill from COVID 19 after the initial 4 to 6 month period following the vaccine and so the need for boosters, which then introduce more toxic spike protein into the human body and thereby further damage the immune system. Some doctors and scientists are predicting that vaccinated people will get AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome) from the vaccines. We know this information is true and if true it violates God’s laws on the sanctity of blood and life. Leviticus 17:11: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it.” And 1 Corinthians 6:19 & 20: “Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit within you, which you have from God? Also, you do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price. By all means, glorify God in your body.” We are convinced this vaccine is inspired by Satan!
But a lot of the information we have now we did not know initially when the Governing Body first began to recommend the vaccine. What did they know at that time? They knew the vaccines were experimental and had no human studies beyond 6 months. This is fact. So, when a vaccine is experimental, anyone who coerces another to get the vaccine without informed consent has violated the Nuremberg Code. Friends say that everyone has a choice but when you condition the continuation of a person’s full-time work on getting an experimental vaccine, that is not a choice, that is a mandate. Using tricky wording and denying the reality does not change that the agreement to get vaccinated was coerced and that should never happen to anyone.
By instituting new “health” regulations and by using heavy handed recommendations, the Governing Body has put themselves in the seat of Moses, see Matthew 23:1 & 2: “Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses…” The Governing Body even used the Law Covenant as proof that they can give us new health recommendations, again putting “themselves in the seat of Moses.” By doing this they are elevating themselves to a clergy class even taking the name, the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”. But what did Jesus say at Matthew 23:8: “But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. And Matthew 23:10: “Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.” And 2 Corinthians 1:24: “Not that we are the masters over your faith, but we are fellow workers for your joy, for it is by your faith that you are standing.”
By reading the Proclaimers book in Chapter 4, “The Great Apostasy Develops” we can see that the Governing Body is following in the footsteps of Christendom by creating an elevated class of rulers. We realize that the anointed will rule in heaven with Jesus but those on earth have not yet received their crown and they can become unfaithful. Which leads us to Matthew 24:48-51: “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.”
We believe we are seeing that happen. What was a “Faithful and Discreet Slave” has now become an “Evil Slave”. We want to ask you to think seriously whether it makes any sense to take medical advice from anyone via video when they are giving the same advice to over 8 million people, while they have no knowledge of each individual’s health or medical history and in a setting where no one can ask questions. That makes no sense to us. What it does appear to show us is that the
SusanB
Well-known member
Last part - part 4
Governing Body is speaking in agreement with the world’s corrupt pharmaceutical companies who have a track record of being proven guilty of committing atrocious criminal acts against people. And, it appears to us that they are following the lead of Satan’s system via the World Health Organization and the United Nations.
We have the pattern of Jesus day when he was in human form (his first coming) and the nation of Israel was God’s chosen people. However, the nation’s leaders had become apostate and were teaching commands of men as doctrine. Their apostasy led to their rejection of the Messiah and killing God’s son. In the near future, we look forward to Jesus’ second coming to take action on the earth in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. If we look at the pattern that appears to be repeating itself, the organization that Jehovah used to accomplish his will and his purpose has now become infected with apostasy. Only a relatively few of Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize the apostasy and yet they are still a substantial number. Many are afraid of being thrown out of the congregation but we feel we must take a stand. John 12:42 & 43: “All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue; for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God.” And John 9:22: “His parents said these things because they were in fear of the Jews, for the Jews had already come to an agreement that if anyone acknowledged him as Christ, that person should be expelled from the synagogue.” From our perspective, it does not matter what the organization decides to do to us because we know that Jehovah’s purpose will be accomplished and it does not include the vaccine.
If we look at the examples in the bible, there is precedence for this in the example of King Solomon. Jehovah blessed him with wisdom. He was used to build the magnificent temple. And, he was used to write several books of the inspired bible that we still learn from today. But sadly in the end, he became apostate. In summary, there is so much wrong with the way in which the Governing Body is handling matters of grave importance, particularly at this time in human history. It is our decision therefore, as individuals, with the ability to reason with our God-given minds to stick closely to Jesus’ teachings as set forth in the inspired bible. So, this is how we feel and what we are convinced of. We hope you will think seriously about the scriptures cited and what is happening to our brothers and sisters worldwide and take a stand against this evil.
Sincerely,
(Driven and husband)
Ireneo
Well-known member
Muy buena carta te felicito
Resume lo que muchos de nosotros pensamos
Lo mismo por lo que entendí ya no se encontrarán con los hermanos.
Eso es triste
Pero entiendo que es insoportable estar con ellos y no poder hablar con ellos
Mi esposa se siente muy incómoda en las reuniones de servicio de campo porque alaban al GB todo el tiempo y promueven la vacuna.
Soy diferente cuando empiezan a hablar cambio de tema
Algunos son fanáticos y me di cuenta que no vale la pena discutir
En mi congregación por escribir una carta así, te señalarían de inmediato.
יהוה_saves
Well-known member
he praises your letter, says his wife doesn’t feel comfortable in “service” because of how other JWs praise the GB all the time. when ireneo is around JWs doing that he changes the subject. He says if someone wrote a letter like that in his congregation they would make an example of you immediately.
same in mine i think. everything comes down to whether you think the GB is directed by God and is the FADS or not. That’s basically defines the current iteration of JWs nowadays- how they view the GB.
Dorothea
Well-known member
Perdon si mi espanol no es bueno. Pero queria decir que entiendo bien lo que siente tu esposa. Yo tambien encuentro que las reuniones para servicio estan muy dificiles. Y cada GB update lo hace mas dificil porque envalentona a los hermanos locales a promover a las vacunas aun mas. Un anciano me senti como rebelde quando dijo, "La dirreccion es claro," despues del update #10.
SusanB
Well-known member
Correct. That is the issue facing us and why their new doctrine is to follow instructions that are unusual, illogical and impractical.
יהוה_saves
Well-known member
yep- which completely contradicts what the bible says about your powers of reason.
Congratulations for your letter Driven, I don't see what else could be added, you covered the issue perfectly.
It must be disheartening to prepare your case so well, and then have to defend it before closed-minded WT robots that can just recite the GB line from their shepherding checklist, instead of addressing your points.
Probably that just a few months ago you would never have imagined things would come to this. And yet this is our reality now.
Especially since you were very active in the congregation, but you are doing what's right, and whatever they do to you things will turn out well for you eventually (and not for them), because you gave glory to God and spoke the truth.
Acts 5:41 : So they went out from before the Sanʹhe·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name.
Meanwhile we can teach you a thing or two about life in the mountains, we have been here for a while
It must be disheartening to prepare your case so well, and then have to defend it before closed-minded WT robots that can just recite the GB line from their shepherding checklist, instead of addressing your points.
Probably that just a few months ago you would never have imagined things would come to this. And yet this is our reality now.
Especially since you were very active in the congregation, but you are doing what's right, and whatever they do to you things will turn out well for you eventually (and not for them), because you gave glory to God and spoke the truth.
Acts 5:41 : So they went out from before the Sanʹhe·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name.
Meanwhile we can teach you a thing or two about life in the mountains, we have been here for a while
Ireneo
Well-known member
Gracias, tradujiste 99% perfecto
No quise decir "ejemplo" sino "señalado" que es disciplina como se menciona en 2 Tesalonicenses 3:14.
"Pero, si alguien no obedece lo que decimos en esta carta, debes mantenerlo marcado y dejar de tener amistad con él, para que se avergüence".
Ireneo
Well-known member
Si acá pasa lo mismo , el informe 10 , fue lo mismo que ponerle "una ametralladora a un mono en las manos"
Ireneo
Well-known member
Sobre el argumento del cuerpo gobernante del primer siglo
Es interesante que el hermano Luchoni hable de esto e insinúe que el actual órgano de gobierno define los temas que causan división.
Habla de la circuncisión pero parece aplicarla en el futuro a vacunados y no vacunados
También habla de respetar cuando es expulsado.
De todos modos, si estamos uniendo los puntos, tienen algo muy feo en sus manos.
Están preparando "la gran decisión" del GB junto con espíritu santo
Es interesante que el hermano Luchoni hable de esto e insinúe que el actual órgano de gobierno define los temas que causan división.
Habla de la circuncisión pero parece aplicarla en el futuro a vacunados y no vacunados
También habla de respetar cuando es expulsado.
De todos modos, si estamos uniendo los puntos, tienen algo muy feo en sus manos.
Están preparando "la gran decisión" del GB junto con espíritu santo
SusanB
Well-known member
Such nice words. Thank you. It did make me sad again. I feel I am losing my family again for the 2nd time, but if I succumb to what I know is wrong that doesn’t help anyone and doesn’t glorify our God, who is a God of truth. I feel at peace about it and if Jehovah uses this letter for his purposes, even better. Much love to you all on this forum.Congratulations for your letter Driven, I don't see what else could be added, you covered the issue perfectly.
It must be disheartening to prepare your case so well, and then have to defend it before closed-minded WT robots that can just recite the GB line from their shepherding checklist, instead of addressing your points.
Probably that just a few months ago you would never have imagined things would come to this. And yet this is our reality now.
Especially since you were very active in the congregation, but you are doing what's right, and whatever they do to you things will turn out well for you eventually (and not for them), because you gave glory to God and spoke the truth.
Acts 5:41 : So they went out from before the Sanʹhe·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name.
Meanwhile we can teach you a thing or two about life in the mountains, we have been here for a while
יהוה_saves
Well-known member
oh yes i was stumped on that word pointed-señalarían. So i assumed it was example. Mi español es mas o menos. No se muchas palabras pero lo intento. \-:
PJ54
Well-known member
Hey @Driven ,
If you need some sources I have some you could use these:
If you need some sources I have some you could use these:
- 30 Most Unethical Psychology Human Experiments
- 25 of the Scariest Science Experiments Ever Conducted
- On One Native American Reservation, Vaccine Hesitancy Has Long Historical Roots
SusanB
Well-known member
Awesome. I’ll check them out. Thank you.
Dorothea
Well-known member
I guess that's a relief! But it's like being put under a gag order. Actually I feel like I've been under one this whole time. I wrote a letter to the elders last Winter about the vaccine issue and they never said a word to me about it. But one of them has definitely expressed his disapproval in a back handed kind of way.
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