Baptism question

so much to ponder and patiently wait upon....having washed their robs and made them white ..may have more to do with their exercising faith in that time verses baptism , because they made them white ...not by baptism but again by actions ....perhaps their acts toward Jesus brothers at that time....and I do believe Revelation 22 is after Armeggedon...Yes? No? I am not being dogmatic just try to understand also....robes are the garments of a christian, baptism is a symbol....but as the Apostle Peter noted , it is like the Ark of Noahs day.....so you probably are right...This is me thinking out loud....lol
 
do you know of a event around baptism in the bible where a woman , Jesus own mother or perhaps one of the woman who were Jesus disciples did? I know that some where given a gift of prophecy but never baptism ....unless I am mistaken...perhaps someone out there has an example I have missed...the bible does not say women cannot, just doesn't provide an example of it happening and wonder if this comes under headship...or principle of a woman not teaching in the congregation....while it is not a teaching action...just saying...for instance all in the upper room where given power of Holy Spirit , but it was Peter who spoke out , and it was only the Apostles and older men who laid their hands on others for appointments or bestowing Holy Spirit upon them .
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
I baptized myself since I'm on an island so to speak.
In prayer I dedicated myself to Jehovah and Christ with asking for forgiveness in the sacrifice of Jesus. It's a vow and I hope it will be acceptable. It seems to me to be similar to that of circumcision.

For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people. Romans 2:28
 

SkinnyAndShort

Active member
do you know of a event around baptism in the bible where a woman , Jesus own mother or perhaps one of the woman who were Jesus disciples did? I know that some where given a gift of prophecy but never baptism ....unless I am mistaken...perhaps someone out there has an example I have missed...the bible does not say women cannot, just doesn't provide an example of it happening and wonder if this comes under headship...or principle of a woman not teaching in the congregation....while it is not a teaching action...just saying...for instance all in the upper room where given power of Holy Spirit , but it was Peter who spoke out , and it was only the Apostles and older men who laid their hands on others for appointments or bestowing Holy Spirit upon them .
I would imagine if such a situation came about where a person wanting to be baptized and only a woman was around it would be more than fine for that woman to do the baptizing as long as that woman is dedicated to God and his son, as you have said there is no scripture saying a woman cannot do the baptizing.
 

Soul Sage

Active member
Baptizing existed before Jehovah Witness' became an organization. Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the religion got baptized as a congregationalist, so if you take the same path to baptism like him you're good to go. As long as you believe in the basic principles of the bible and follow it in your life and aren't living in sin and you know that Jehovah is the creator and Jesus Christ is his son unlike what trinity doctrine teaches and you promise to preach to others about your faith and fully dedicate yourself to Jehovah. It's enough to qualify you for baptism.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I think it's around 123 or more now? I agree with Robert that it's good to know them, as they show how much you know about the Kingdom. That said, I find it wrong how the WT expects adults to know these questions in order to qualify, yet they don't hold children to the same standard.
I would take issue that understanding of the scriptures is a pre-requisite of baptism and even moreso for the watchtower facsimile of baptism. What did the thief crucified beside Jesus understand of his obligation? Whatever it was, it was heartfelt and to a degree that Jesus promised him a resurrection. Clearly, one has to have an understanding of what is required if they are to please Jehovah, but these assets cannot be learnt. They are heartfelt; appreciation, an inner love of righteousness, a concern for others, insight into the meaning of and fruition of the attributes that mark a Christian. These things do not come from learning. They cannot be impressed upon the soul. They come from within: perception, realisation, fascination, exploration, tasting, resolution, submission, abeyance, observation, faith and then love. And love is not a acquisition, a reward, rather it is a fruit of the accomplishment of these things. It is seen inwardly by Jehovah.
 

Carl

Well-known member
I would take issue that understanding of the scriptures is a pre-requisite of baptism and even moreso for the watchtower facsimile of baptism. What did the thief crucified beside Jesus understand of his obligation? Whatever it was, it was heartfelt and to a degree that Jesus promised him a resurrection. Clearly, one has to have an understanding of what is required if they are to please Jehovah, but these assets cannot be learnt. They are heartfelt; appreciation, an inner love of righteousness, a concern for others, insight into the meaning of and fruition of the attributes that mark a Christian. These things do not come from learning. They cannot be impressed upon the soul. They come from within: perception, realisation, fascination, exploration, tasting, resolution, submission, abeyance, observation, faith and then love. And love is not a acquisition, a reward, rather it is a fruit of the accomplishment of these things. It is seen inwardly by Jehovah.
I agree you need to know why you're getting baptized, otherwise your baptism is no different than an infant baptism. To me the debate is more about how much Bible knowledge vs. faith one must possess in order to "qualify" for baptism. It's almost akin to the circumcision debate. IMHO, baptism in the Bible was a function of faith and not knowledge. Jesus rewarded the thief next him him based on his faith. Cornelius, and no doubt many others, received baptism based on faith... albeit they obviously received their faith from Jehovah based on their reaction to learning the basics of "The Way." To me, faith is the key, and is what's most important to Jehovah and Jesus, not which doctrines are supported by various scriptures. If baptism is based on knowledge, and a person's level of knowledge/experience is used to deny baptism, even to someone with exceptional faith, then why do some congregations baptize individuals within months of starting a Bible class, while others, like the one I attended, put onerous restraints on it? And why do some congregations baptism "infants?" Because to me, a 6 year old is an infant spiritually.

The WT can't have their cake and eat it. Either baptism is a free gift between the individual and God, or it's a WT controlled initiation, requiring works. How are the WT's Q&A sessions any different than a Catechism? Cat-e-chism -noun- "a summary of the principles of Christian religion in the form of questions and answers, used for the instruction of Christians." The elder who taught me said I had more faith than anyone he had ever met, and he knew anointed brothers and sisters. He wasn't wrong, as I have absolute faith in Jehovah and Jesus to the point I would gladly die in order to prove it to Satan. I imagine most here share this absolute faith, which I believe draws attacks by those inside and out who lack faith. My baptism was held up due to imperfect men, either because one fancied a woman who liked me, or because another elder who was very controlling felt I called him a Pharisee... maybe a little of both. This unChristian action goes against everything the Bible stands for. So according to some, I would have to go back to the WT, lie about my Bible based beliefs, many of which I learned here, and "work" in the field ministry to live up to some arbitrary expectation of hours, in order to qualify for baptism. This is a perversion of the Bible, and betrays everything Jesus stood for.

EDIT: I'm not saying Jesus baptized the thief.
 
Last edited:

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I agree you need to know why you're getting baptized, otherwise your baptism is no different than an infant baptism. To me the debate is more about how much Bible knowledge vs. faith one must possess in order to "qualify" for baptism. It's almost akin to the circumcision debate. IMHO, baptism in the Bible was a function of faith and not knowledge. Jesus rewarded the thief next him him based on his faith. Cornelius, and no doubt many others, received baptism based on faith... albeit they obviously received their faith from Jehovah based on their reaction to learning the basics of "The Way." To me, faith is the key, and is what's most important to Jehovah and Jesus, not which doctrines are supported by various scriptures. If baptism is based on knowledge, and a person's level of knowledge/experience is used to deny baptism, even to someone with exceptional faith, then why do some congregations baptize individuals within months of starting a Bible class, while others, like the one I attended, put onerous restraints on it? And why do some congregations baptism "infants?" Because to me, a 6 year old is an infant spiritually.

The WT can't have their cake and eat it. Either baptism is a free gift between the individual and God, or it's a WT controlled initiation, requiring works. How are the WT's Q&A sessions any different than a Catechism? Cat-e-chism -noun- "a summary of the principles of Christian religion in the form of questions and answers, used for the instruction of Christians." The elder who taught me said I had more faith than anyone he had ever met, and he knew anointed brothers and sisters. He wasn't wrong, as I have absolute faith in Jehovah and Jesus to the point I would gladly die in order to prove it to Satan. I imagine most here share this absolute faith, which I believe draws attacks by those inside and out who lack faith. My baptism was held up due to imperfect men, either because one fancied a woman who liked me, or because another elder who was very controlling felt I called him a Pharisee... maybe a little of both. This unChristian action goes against everything the Bible stands for. So according to some, I would have to go back to the WT, lie about my Bible based beliefs, many of which I learned here, and "work" in the field ministry to live up to some arbitrary expectation of hours, in order to qualify for baptism. This is a perversion of the Bible, and betrays everything Jesus stood for.

EDIT: I'm not saying Jesus baptized the thief.
That is about how I see it Carl. The measure between faith and learning feeds both learning and faith. I like to think I would have the courage to give up my life for the truth. I really feel for those in the watchtower who would give up their life for the lie. I feel that i am fortunate in that I was aware of a greater spirit from a tender age or should I say that i became aware of an alternative to my perception of life that I was given to understand was the norm. My basis for faith is built upon the creation. That it was designed is unarguable to those that have eyes and a touch of humility. The arrangement is it’s own monument to one that is a true father, from its laws to its ingenuity and that built into its very fibre, are the attributes of that Spirit. It as been a pro-rata learning curve for me because the more I see of this world in its decline, the more I would be willing to give my life to the One who wants to put it right, for the sole reason of whom He has shown Himself to be.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
I would imagine if such a situation came about where a person wanting to be baptized and only a woman was around it would be more than fine for that woman to do the baptizing as long as that woman is dedicated to God and his son, as you have said there is no scripture saying a woman cannot do the baptizing.
I agree, but I also think that the woman must then cover her head.

I couldn’t find a recent article but the WT from 1964 explains:
So it becomes necessary for a woman to cover her head when she is in a position or performing a task for which her husband or a dedicated Christian man would normally be appropriate; she therefore only performs this task or function temporarily or as a result of special circumstances.

I guess your situation qualifies as special circumstances. Please see 1 Cor. 11 for details.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
I know that faith is a necessity, but you heed to have an understanding/knowledge what it really means to get baptised and the responsibility that comes with it.

You make a promise to the Almighty to live your life the way he asks of you. That means you need to know the consequences of wrong-doing or breaking that promise because Jehovah doesn’t take promises you make to Him lightly. So in this sense, the baptism questions do make sense because they cover every aspect that will put you in a position opposite Jehovah.
If you can’t get your hands on the questions, you will need to prayerfully consider what you know from the scriptures.

I don’t know if this is used these days, but maybe it can help you: https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=1102014952&par=0
 

Rockman_91

Member
Faith and knowledge go hand in hand, like sharpening a knife.
I know a bother that moved to Peru, and all the congregations in his area had female elders and ministrial servants. All approved by the local branch but, he slowly replaced them.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
Faith and knowledge go hand in hand, like sharpening a knife.
I know a bother that moved to Peru, and all the congregations in his area had female elders and ministrial servants. All approved by the local branch but, he slowly replaced them.
That’s really interesting. Now that you mention this I think I remember more congregations led by women. The island of Saba had one publisher for years, a sister. I guess when her bible student wanted to congregate, she would have to take the kead.
 

Rockman_91

Member
That’s really interesting. Now that you mention this I think I remember more congregations led by women. The island of Saba had one publisher for years, a sister. I guess when her bible student wanted to congregate, she would have to take the kead.
He said it had been like that a couple of years. They couldn't get brothers or local men to join. Bunch of spiritists and jungle over there.
 
Top