Peace and security - Then what?

SingleCell

Well-known member
But hasn’t the WT always claimed to be in a peaceful and secure relationship with Jehovah since 1919 when they claim Christ then came to his temple and inspected the Lords people finding them spotless and approved?
Do nuclear powers wait respectfully for a WT announcement before embarking on a world ruining campaign?
Hmm,maybe.

Consider this:

- 'they' are those asleep / in the dark contrasted with 'we' who are awake / in the light (not the 'world rulers' vs. 'we')
- the context is the thief like arrival and birth pangs Jesus spoke about

So the 'they' are those saying 'peace' when there is no peace, the 'asleep' and some 'evil' virgins.

The anti-type as the topic of Ezekiel 38 (and broadly the rulers in Israel during Jeremiah, Isaiah)

My opinion: the 'sudden destruction' is not sudden, instead, the word is used hyperbolically, which is consistent with Biblical language.

For example: "Babylon will smoke forever and ever"

So its not they "say peace and security" and then "instantly the nukes start to fly".

Birth pangs -> "they" sleeping/evil virgins are saying 'peace and security' -> thief like arrival -> destruction ensues.
 
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The Black Sheep

Well-known member
It seems most obvious to me that Robert's understanding of the call is the correct one. Though I understand where one might get the impression that the call comes from the org, the reality is that the org has essentially been claiming it has been peaceful and secured since the early 20th century. And, they have used the term spiritual paradise for quite some time too. The destruction that comes upon those proclaiming takes place suddenly and instantly. That's why it makes more sense to me that it would have to be from the govt.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
No scripture ? Please stop .

But I see you did use a couple scriptures. However the stuff you said to explain said scriptures did sound a bit/lot clueless.
Did it not occur to you that the two witnesses begin their final witness sometime after the declaration for
"peace and security" ? Just a thought?
 

SingleCell

Well-known member
It seems most obvious to me that Robert's understanding of the call is the correct one. Though I understand where one might get the impression that the call comes from the org, the reality is that the org has essentially been claiming it has been peaceful and secured since the early 20th century. And, they have used the term spiritual paradise for quite some time too. The destruction that comes upon those proclaiming takes place suddenly and instantly. That's why it makes more sense to me that it would have to be from the govt.

Understandable, I bounce between the two ideas -- consider this summary as to why it may be the unwise virgins:

- the birth pangs and thief like arrival doesn't doom the nations, because judgment starts with the house of God
- the contrast of 'they' and 'we' is those in the dark and surprised by the thief vs. those in the light expecting the thief
- the 'sleeping' ones in the dark are 'drunk'
- the destruction of the 8th king / 11th horn comes at the end of the 3.5 years not at the beginning when Jesus surprises the drunken sleepers

When I create an equivalent summary for the nations, its significantly less compelling and mostly just conjecture.
 
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DR74minus

Well-known member
Understandable, I bounce between the two ideas -- consider this summary as to why it may be the unwise virgins:

- the birth pangs and thief like arrival doesn't doom the nations, because judgment starts with the house of God
- the contrast of 'they' and 'we' is those in the dark and surprised by the thief vs. those in the light expecting the thief
- the 'sleeping' ones in the dark are 'drunk'
- the destruction of the 8th king / 11th horn comes at the end of the 3.5 years not at the beginning when Jesus surprises the drunken sleepers

When I create an equivalent summary for the nations, its significantly less compelling and mostly just conjecture.

But you’re assuming that “sudden destruction” applies to the 8th King? And who exactly is saying that “birth pangs and thief like arrival” dooms nations? Then there are the drunkards, how is it that they are “suddenly” destroyed after saying “there is peace when there is no peace”? The G/B has virtually already said those words, and they are still here.
 

SingleCell

Well-known member
But you’re assuming that “sudden destruction” applies to the 8th King? And who exactly is saying that “birth pangs and thief like arrival” dooms nations? Then there are the drunkards, how is it that they are “suddenly” destroyed after saying “there is peace when there is no peace”? The G/B has virtually already said those words, and they are still here.

The nations have said those words for decades as well, hence why it can't be 'sudden' as we define sudden.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
The nations have said those words for decades as well, hence why it can't be 'sudden' as we define sudden.

Mt 24:8, 1 Thes 5:3. Jesus and Paul both use the expression, "...pangs of distress" or very similar, and in the context of a start, or beginning of a process, specifically the start of the G/T. As I have learned at least. Still none of us are perfect as yet. I guess each of us has their own interpretation of what 1 Thes 5:3 says?
 

SingleCell

Well-known member
Mt 24:8, 1 Thes 5:3. Jesus and Paul both use the expression, "...pangs of distress" or very similar, and in the context of a start, or beginning of a process, specifically the start of the G/T. As I have learned at least. Still none of us are perfect as yet. I guess each of us has their own interpretation of what 1 Thes 5:3 says?

Absolutely brother, until it's made clear, perhaps only after the fact, it's all just interpretation and logical guesswork. The 1914 fiasco is a great lesson.
 

Back to True Worship

Well-known member
But that doesn't mean there won't be a special pronouncement under unusual circumstances. For instance under the Covid 19 mandates and false pandemic did they not tell the brothers that the brothers should have faith that Jehovah is behind their direction to follow the mandates and vaccination, thus following the narrative and even using the Kingdom Halls in some locations to be centres of injection of these death shots. Many followed suit and Listened and acted according to this "faith" . This is very unusual...and we will have to wait to see why they will make sure a unusual cry of peace and security. Perhaps with the unveiling of the real results and reason for the vaccinations of these gene therapy shots..they will find themselves in a very bad situation and then proclaim again that Jehovah was directing them, and that he still is and there is need for trust as they do have this peace and security with him and we need to follow again another "beyond human reasoning " direction from them.
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
Consider this:

- 'they' are those asleep / in the dark contrasted with 'we' who are awake / in the light (not the 'world rulers' vs. 'we')
- the context is the thief like arrival and birth pangs Jesus spoke about

So the 'they' are those saying 'peace' when there is no peace, the 'asleep' and some 'evil' virgins.

The anti-type as the topic of Ezekiel 38 (and broadly the rulers in Israel during Jeremiah, Isaiah)

My opinion: the 'sudden destruction' is not sudden, instead, the word is used hyperbolically, which is consistent with Biblical language.

For example: "Babylon will smoke forever and ever"

So its not they "say peace and security" and then "instantly the nukes start to fly".

Birth pangs -> "they" sleeping/evil virgins are saying 'peace and security' -> thief like arrival -> destruction ensues.
The Lords day ,which begins with the great tribulation, impacts the whole earth suddenly and all at once, not in stages.
The “many will be stumbled” are those in the WT who’ll then realize the authentic rule of Jesus has in fact begun as will be evident from the great sword of war (WW3 and its gruesome aftermath) ,which they were told could never happen, being unsheathed resulting in two billion deaths.
 

jay

Well-known member
U.S sattelites used in guiding TU141 drones that hit air bases in Russia...3min in....
Wow, Putin warned that any country that would try to destroy Russia would receive payback. We here in the US better strap on our helmets and take some of those anti radiation pills because we just might have a missile drop by in one of our local neighborhoods.😱
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
U.S sattelites used in guiding TU141 drones that hit air bases in Russia...3min in....
As long as the elite warmongers can enjoy their exclusive taxpayer paid for lifestyles, mansions, country club memberships, vacation homes in Martha’s Vineyard and celebrity styled person of the year nominations by doting left wing rags like Time magazine, they’ll never stop bringing misery to the rest of the world or to those who they supposedly represent.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
As long as the elite warmongers can enjoy their exclusive taxpayer paid for lifestyles, mansions, country club memberships, vacation homes in Martha’s Vineyard and celebrity styled person of the year nominations by doting left wing rags like Time magazine, they’ll never stop bringing misery to the rest of the world or to those who they supposedly represent.
And the UN security council's talks of Peace and Security in Ukraine will have no standing, no credibility after the way they used the Minsk2 to feign promises to Russia of no more shelling into the Donbas!
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
And the UN security council's talks of Peace and Security in Ukraine will have no standing, no credibility after the way they used the Minsk2 to feign promises to Russia of no more shelling into the Donbas!
What watchtower fails to address sensibly is the Daniel scripture informing an arrival of 'one who understands ambiguous sayings', footnote.. 'skilled in intrigue' in the last days who would bring mighty ones to ruin (humiliation of 3 kings, 7:24) even ones made up of the 'holy ones' to ruin? Standing up even against the 'Prince of Princes'! 8:23-. Fascinating insight to our times. Look how KOTN is manipulating GeoPolitics. Russia is being led a merry dance and they are aware of empire's chess. Putin's shrewdness is being taken to it's edge! His speeches on Christian values, his understanding of empires tactics the NGO's for instance. How many agents of empire used watchtower's presence in Russia for it's means? Regards KOTN @tt........Here comes a chopper to chop off your.....
 
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