Questions from a reader of Jehovah Has Become King

[Revvzone]

Is it possible that, like Christ, they may have missions on earth that will require they "knit" themselves a human body and visit? I hope so. Angels did it. Jesus did it. Perhaps Christ's brothers will do it. Heck even just to visit loved ones in person to say hi and give them a hug, advise, admonish, etc. Perhaps to tell of their experiences in Jehovah's heavenly presence, etc. That would be awesome.

The Bible says those who become kings with Christ will help lead us to trees of life and streams of life..perhaps in a literal way.. just like the Angles who materialized and visited Sodom and lead Lot and his family by the hand out of the city.. So.. I see no reason why they wouldn't..

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Do you think that you will miss that when you go to heaven? How do you think that the anointed will feel once they are taken to heaven when they look down to Earth? Do you think some of them will miss anything here? Maybe you do this because you won't be able to do it in heaven so you enjoy it now? Hehe I love nature and everything that is natural A LOT too BTW.

Though heaven is spoken of as a literal place, I have my doubts that spiritual existence necessitates confinement to place and time as we understand it to be. The bible speaks of Satan being confined and so reasoning may lead us to consider to what extent not being confined means in respects of three dimensions and the laws that govern them. I’m not convinced that spiritual existence rules out the enjoyment of mental companionship with humanity or the enjoyment of nature or participation in such. After all, in basic form, meaning us, we can share in the delight of animals, understand what they want and enjoy interaction with them and they with us. We are all part of the same creation and the unity we see now within all aspects of that, is probably restrained by the necessity of judgement that Satan has evoked. That has caused a necessary delay in the outcome of purpose. We appear confined to our own existence in general, yet there are links from both sides, from animal to human and vice-versa in our respective behaviours and that are understood. In plant life, we read their needs by observation, in animals, by gesture, expression, movement, signal, hearing, sight etc; etc. and in both animal and human, we read emotion, intent, distress, joy and even love - certainly trust. The potentials of communication are endless because even in our own state, we can often read thought too and finish another’s sentence! I doubt very much that we who dwell on earth will see and hear the last of the 144,000, or that their presence and those of other spirits will be lost to us, or indeed our existence to them. We are all one through Jehovah.

 

[DR75 less 1]

The thing with humans and animals, They exist on the same plane/terrestrial/fleshly realm, so can mingle readily. Angels on the other hand are in the celestial plane/spirit realm. But there is no reason why they cannot appear to humans even interact, without changing form prehaps. Or maybe there is a reason why they may not interact. Whatever the case it is in Jehovah's jurisdiction.

 

[evw]

The thing with humans and animals, They exist on the same plane/terrestrial/fleshly realm, so can mingle readily. Angels on the other hand are in the celestial plane/spirit realm. But there is no reason why they cannot appear to humans even interact, without changing form prehaps. Or maybe there is a reason why they may not interact. Whatever the case it is in Jehovah's jurisdiction.

Didn't Jehovah have interactions with Adam and Eve, even daily?

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Didn't Jehovah have interactions with Adam and Eve, even daily?

Exactly so. And angels also represented Him. Another instance was when Jehovah ”passed behind” Moses. I’m not sure that it was Jehovah, or a representative because “No man may see my face and yet live”. I always translated that as His entire person in the same way that we may come before a judge, if we have been off hand with the law! I do not know of course, but I would assume that spirit can associate with us in any number of ways and have done so in dreams or materialised body. After all, we can see a mirage reflected off a cloud. Jehovah “reads hearts”. Satan “wandered the earth”, demon angels materialised and had relationships with women…can you imagine cooking for one of those? “What’s for tea?“ “Frikandellen and chips!” “We had that yesterday…We will eat out at McNero’s at Babylon. The food is really evil there.”

 

[kenmuldoon55]

The thing with humans and animals, They exist on the same plane/terrestrial/fleshly realm, so can mingle readily. Angels on the other hand are in the celestial plane/spirit realm. But there is no reason why they cannot appear to humans even interact, without changing form prehaps. Or maybe there is a reason why they may not interact. Whatever the case it is in Jehovah's jurisdiction.

Didn’t Jehovah speak directly to Adam from the spirit dimension?
Being perfect, Adam wouldn’t have needed a mediator for communication.
Hard to wrap my head around actually being able to do that someday.

 

[Watchman]

Didn't Jehovah have interactions with Adam and Eve, even daily?

There is no indication that God had any interaction with Eve. Adam was alone in the garden for a considerable time. Apparently, she was only alive for a very short while before Satan targeted her. No doubt, that was why he moved against Eve because she was literally born yesterday.

 

[The God Pill]

To claim spirit creatures are exempt from time and space is to for all intents and purposes claim the devil is eternal and immortal. String theory indicates there are substantially more spacial dimensions and allows for additional time dimensions as well imagine a ten or eleven dimensional creature shoved into a three spacial dimensional realm of course the devil will be wrathful when thrown down it has to be very uncomfortable from his pov

I don't follow on the claims time is created either because such a claim would support the most illogical of all erroneous trinitarian arguments that of the sons alleged coeternality

 

[The God Pill]

Didn’t Jehovah speak directly to Adam from the spirit dimension?
Being perfect, Adam wouldn’t have needed a mediator for communication.
Hard to wrap my head around actually being able to do that someday.

Humans have heard God's voice but as for "Jehovah" walking in the garden that was Jesus representing him albeit given the father's indwelling spirit in him it could have possibly been like the father piloting a drone. Not even the Seraphim can handle directly gazing at the father in a literal sense. angels behold the father with their minds eye.

 

[evw]

Exactly so. And angels also represented Him. Another instance was when Jehovah ”passed behind” Moses. I’m not sure that it was Jehovah, or a representative because “No man may see my face and yet live”. I always translated that as His entire person in the same way that we may come before a judge, if we have been off hand with the law! I do not know of course, but I would assume that spirit can associate with us in any number of ways and have done so in dreams or materialised body. After all, we can see a mirage reflected off a cloud. Jehovah “reads hearts”. Satan “wandered the earth”, demon angels materialised and had relationships with women…can you imagine cooking for one of those? “What’s for tea?“ “Frikandellen and chips!” “We had that yesterday…We will eat out at McNero’s at Babylon. The food is really evil there.”

oh YES, with a little too much chili pepper

 

[evw]

There is no indication that God had any interaction with Eve. Adam was alone in the garden for a considerable time. Apparently, she was only alive for a very short while before Satan targeted her. No doubt, that was why he moved against Eve because she was literally born yesterday.

Yes, of course, slip of the pen

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

To claim spirit creatures are exempt from time and space is to for all intents and purposes claim the devil is eternal and immortal. String theory indicates there are substantially more spacial dimensions and allows for additional time dimensions as well imagine a ten or eleven dimensional creature shoved into a three spacial dimensional realm of course the devil will be wrathful when thrown down it has to be very uncomfortable from his pov

I don't follow on the claims time is created either because such a claim would support the most illogical of all erroneous trinitarian arguments that of the sons alleged coeternality

Spirit entities are not confined by the laws as we understand them to be. They can manipulate the laws of chemistry to form a body and manipulate it (actually offering some proof to the separateness of body from the essence of life). They can possess a body and articulate it. They can form the basis of thought within a body. These are not abilities that we understand in parallel with our understanding and to suggest that we are aware of all laws and their extent of manipulation or control is somewhat of an understatement I would think.

The concept of establishing time as a measure in which to set the laws of our existence does not breach any understanding of the bible and/or support ridiculous beliefs such as the trinity. It can only be an assumption as to if, how and when the element of time became a factor prior to creation. Regardless of that, time, in respect of creation and it’s account, would have been necessary (as we understand time) at the point of the first creation, whereas, that cannot be said of Jehovah, who has always existed. If something has always existed, then clearly it is not subject to time. Clearly, if Jehovah has always existed and time can be viewed differently in terms of perspective of the observer, it could not have been a law prior to Jehovah, only subsequently. That time can be manipulated and is affected by laws created by Jehovah, establishes the fact that time itself is a law. Besides which, you are labouring unnecessarily because the trinity is not fact, nor could it be made fact by the absence of time and therefor it matters not whether time is a factor in creation or not. We know from nature and the very laws that we have, eternal or not, that you cannot make something out of nothing. Thus establishing that Jehovah has always existed, and that Jesus was subsequent to His (Jehovah’s) existence. You or I will have to rethink your opinion on time.

 

[DR75 less 1]

Didn’t Jehovah speak directly to Adam from the spirit dimension?
Being perfect, Adam wouldn’t have needed a mediator for communication.
Hard to wrap my head around actually being able to do that someday.

Jehovah spoke to Moses right?

 

[Watchman]

Jehovah spoke to Moses right?

Actually, it was angels. At least according to Stephen

 

[DR75 less 1]

To claim spirit creatures are exempt from time and space is to for all intents and purposes claim the devil is eternal and immortal.

Jehovah is outside time and space prehaps. The angels are just messengers - go-betweens. Not sure about the multiple dimensions but. Next I'll be wondering Multiverse.

I don't follow on the claims time is created either

Time is a product of creation prehaps. Jesus/ The Word being a reference point. A demarcation between "timeless" and "Time" if you like, or not. There is no bible reference to what Jehovah said or did prior to begetting his only begotten.

 

[DR75 less 1]

Actually, it was angels. At least according to Stephen

10/4

 

[DR75 less 1]

Humans have heard God's voice but as for "Jehovah" walking in the garden that was Jesus representing him

Sounds plausible. Someone once said, that if a portion of our sun the size of a marble. were to hit the earth, a size as big as NY will disintegrate. Speculation prehaps. If true and following that thinking, maybe Jehovah is too powerful to be in the same dimension as humans.

 

[The God Pill]

Sounds plausible. Someone once said, that if a portion of our sun the size of a marble. were to hit the earth, a size as big as NY will disintegrate. Speculation prehaps. If true and following that thinking, maybe Jehovah is too powerful to be in the same dimension as humans.

That was roughly Justin Martyr's pov he argued with Trypho that it was christ on mount Sinai representing because the father's so powerful even if the earth could withstand it there would be natural disasters going on everywhere and people would discern it from thousands of miles away.

While his abode is in the heaven of heavens Jehovah is not remote from anyone however given by means of him we live and move and have our being, we can pray, we'll have direct conversation post millennium, we can be granted holy spirit and so on.

 

[The God Pill]

@Cristo

3 Baruch excerpt

And I said, I pray thee show me which is the tree which led Adam astray. And the angel said to me, It is the vine, which the angel Sammael planted, whereat the Lord God was angry, and He cursed him and his plant, while also on this account He did not permit Adam to touch it, and therefore 9 the devil being envious deceived him through his vine.

 

[Cristo]

To claim spirit creatures are exempt from time and space is to for all intents and purposes claim the devil is eternal and immortal. String theory indicates there are substantially more spacial dimensions and allows for additional time dimensions as well imagine a ten or eleven dimensional creature shoved into a three spacial dimensional realm of course the devil will be wrathful when thrown down it has to be very uncomfortable from his pov

I don't follow on the claims time is created either because such a claim would support the most illogical of all erroneous trinitarian arguments that of the sons alleged coeternality

The scriptures allude to a beginning point, the start, which was the creation of Jesus Christ. Prior to that it is called time indefinite, showing that time was not defined yet, and it is a perfect description of a dimension where time does not exist. When does eternity begin or end? Eternity, in the fullest sense of the word, cannot be defined by time, but rather time falls within eternity. Somewhere within Gods existence he began creating, thus the stream of time which we, and the angels are a part of, began.

I'm not certain angels are exempt from time and space, possibly they just fully understand how to use it, which might seem as though they are exempt. Angels certainly understand everything about this universe and how it was created, therefore they have the knowledge to manipulate it to a degree that we may one day ourselves understand. Because they too were created within the stream of time that began with Jesus Christ, I doubt they themselves have the ability to time travel along that stream of time, but must ride it out as we all do. The ability to see forward or backward on that stream of time is limited to Jehovah and anybody he wants to show. I could be wrong, but allowing any creation to go forward or backward in time would undermine the essence of free will, and merely create an infinite amount of variables that would have to be contended with. I just don't see it as something Jehovah would allow. Besides how else is it that only Jehovah knows that day or hour, if angels were exempt from time?

“. . .From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water.” Pr 8:23-24​

​

“17 Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.” 1Ti 1:17​

I'm not certain regarding the comparison between time being created and how that supports a triune eternal godhead made up of Father, son, holy spirit. The verse I provided in Proverbs actually shows just the opposite, in that Gods first creation, Jesus Christ portrayed as wisdom, had a start which would not be possible if he was coeternal with the father.