Saturday, May 13 2023 Should brothers continue to reach out?

PJ54

Well-known member

Saturday, May 13 2023​

O Jehovah, my heart is not haughty, . . . nor do I aspire to things too great.—Ps. 131:1.

Parents should be careful not to compare one child with another or to ask more of a child than he or she can give. Unfavorable comparisons and unreasonable demands can exasperate a child. (Eph. 6:4) A sister named Sachiko says: “My mother wanted me to get 100 percent on my exams, which I found impossible. Although I left school years ago, at times I still wonder if my best is good enough for Jehovah.” King David said that he did not “aspire to things too great” or to things that were beyond him. His humility and modesty “calmed and quieted” him. (Ps. 131:2) What can parents learn from David’s words? Parents can be humble and modest not only in what they expect of themselves but also in what they expect of their child. Parents can reassure their child by acknowledging his strengths and weaknesses when helping him to set appropriate goals. w21.07 21-22 ¶5-6
Examining the Scriptures Daily—2023

Should brothers continue to reach out?

Originally published the week of October 20th, 2002.
Should brothers continue to try to "reach out" in the congregation and become elders and above? What advice would you have for brothers already in those positions who want to assist those in the congregation, yet not publicly go directly against the society's teachings and thus get themselves removed from positions where they can legitimately help others?
____________________________________________

We definitely need brothers who understand what the issues are that many of the friends are trying to deal with. Many of Jehovah's Witnesses are struggling with doubts and troubled by some of the things going on in the organization and the problem is that they feel that they cannot confide in the elders without running the risk of being labeled as 'weak' or 'apostate.' Having shepherds in a congregation that have insight into some of the things troubling Jehovah's sheep can help them not to be judgmental and condemnatory, so that that might be a real source of strength for those of us who have disquieting thoughts.

While, any brothers reaching out for the privilege of serving as an overseer of Jehovah's people are aware that the Scriptures say that overseers will receive a heavier judgment, it is an act of faith. Receiving a heavier judgment doesn't necessarily mean being rejected by God. It just means that elders are more accountable before Jehovah. Paul wrote Timothy and said: "For the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and great freeness of speech in the faith in connection with Jesus Christ."

The Governing Body and responsible brothers at Bethel ultimately have the greatest level of accountability before God and Christ. On a local level there is nothing that can be done to effect any sort of change in the established teachings and policies. Since that is the case, Jehovah would not hold local elders responsible for teaching something that proves to be in error. However, for conscience sake, if an elder is not comfortable dogmatically teaching certain things from the platform, he can usually de-emphasize those things, which actually might be doing the congregation a service.

At some point the organization is going to be thrown into the maelstrom of confusion. That's when the real shepherds will need to use their freeness of speech to try and hold their congregations together. We often refer to Isaiah about elders being a hiding place from the windstorm, I submit to you, that the wind has not begun to blow yet. But, when the tempest begins, we are going to need men who have the courage and conviction to stand up for the truth. So, by all means, earn the brother's trust and respect now, and be there for them when they need you, now, and during the time of trouble.
Posted 17th September 2010 by Unknown
 
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Niobium

Well-known member
This was originally posted in 2002. Now it is 2023.
The article said:
"However, for conscience sake, if an elder is not comfortable dogmatically teaching certain things from the platform, he can usually de-emphasize those things, which actually might be doing the congregation a service."
Can that still be the case 20 years or more later. The obvious "wrongness" of some doctines have become clearer. 1914 is now clearly a total hoax. The " overlapping generation" teaching ( which seems to have been buried to some degree) is a right insult to intelligence. Other teachings and current emphasis to follow the organisation direction to the letter regardless of whether it is seen to be wise from a human standpoint or not ( covid vaccine mandates for example) all make it much more difficult for a PIMO Elder to de-emphasize such things. I couldn't do that any more as an Elder so I made efforts to be removed ( if that's the right expression) as it was no longer possible for me to be on the platform and have to "teach" what was no longer something that could be de-emphasised without being chased up on it after. I guess we are all different, but I feel a lot happier now that I don't have to do that. I have remained in the congregation for various reasons and do my best to encourage others to think about what they are being told. But it's becoming more and more difficult even to do that recently.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member

Should brothers continue to reach out?

Originally published the week of October 20th, 2002.
Should brothers continue to try to "reach out" in the congregation and become elders and above? What advice would you have for brothers already in those positions who want to assist those in the congregation, yet not publicly go directly against the society's teachings and thus get themselves removed from positions where they can legitimately help others?
____________________________________________

We definitely need brothers who understand what the issues are that many of the friends are trying to deal with. Many of Jehovah's Witnesses are struggling with doubts and troubled by some of the things going on in the organization and the problem is that they feel that they cannot confide in the elders without running the risk of being labeled as 'weak' or 'apostate.' Having shepherds in a congregation that have insight into some of the things troubling Jehovah's sheep can help them not to be judgmental and condemnatory, so that that might be a real source of strength for those of us who have disquieting thoughts.

While, any brothers reaching out for the privilege of serving as an overseer of Jehovah's people are aware that the Scriptures say that overseers will receive a heavier judgment, it is an act of faith. Receiving a heavier judgment doesn't necessarily mean being rejected by God. It just means that elders are more accountable before Jehovah. Paul wrote Timothy and said: "For the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and great freeness of speech in the faith in connection with Jesus Christ."

The Governing Body and responsible brothers at Bethel ultimately have the greatest level of accountability before God and Christ. On a local level there is nothing that can be done to effect any sort of change in the established teachings and policies. Since that is the case, Jehovah would not hold local elders responsible for teaching something that proves to be in error. However, for conscience sake, if an elder is not comfortable dogmatically teaching certain things from the platform, he can usually de-emphasize those things, which actually might be doing the congregation a service.

At some point the organization is going to be thrown into the maelstrom of confusion. That's when the real shepherds will need to use their freeness of speech to try and hold their congregations together. We often refer to Isaiah about elders being a hiding place from the windstorm, I submit to you, that the wind has not begun to blow yet. But, when the tempest begins, we are going to need men who have the courage and conviction to stand up for the truth. So, by all means, earn the brother's trust and respect now, and be there for them when they need you, now, and during the time of trouble.
Posted 17th September 2010 by Unknown
Feel a hypocrite giving thumbs up to encouraging ones to stay when I clearly pointed out to them my reasons for leaving were 'Better food for this proper time @ e-watchman'...They laughed ....e who? My absolute respect to you deep state Christians who have remained! P.s Soon Christ's prophecy to the woman @ the well, will out: John4:23 "The hour is coming when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth"...Jer 25:29 "For look! if I am bringing calamity first on the city that bears my name should you not go unpunished!?" PPS. Soon everyone will know Jehovah from the least to the great; Jer 31:34. The time left to Boast is reduced! Jer 9:24!
 
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kirmmy

Well-known member
This was originally posted in 2002. Now it is 2023.
The article said:
"However, for conscience sake, if an elder is not comfortable dogmatically teaching certain things from the platform, he can usually de-emphasize those things, which actually might be doing the congregation a service."
Can that still be the case 20 years or more later. The obvious "wrongness" of some doctines have become clearer. 1914 is now clearly a total hoax. The " overlapping generation" teaching ( which seems to have been buried to some degree) is a right insult to intelligence. Other teachings and current emphasis to follow the organisation direction to the letter regardless of whether it is seen to be wise from a human standpoint or not ( covid vaccine mandates for example) all make it much more difficult for a PIMO Elder to de-emphasize such things. I couldn't do that any more as an Elder so I made efforts to be removed ( if that's the right expression) as it was no longer possible for me to be on the platform and have to "teach" what was no longer something that could be de-emphasised without being chased up on it after. I guess we are all different, but I feel a lot happier now that I don't have to do that. I have remained in the congregation for various reasons and do my best to encourage others to think about what they are being told. But it's becoming more and more difficult even to do that recently.
Excellent observation and timely indeed, but couldn't an elder focus his teaching and talks on basic truths? I.E. the non-immortality of the soul, the falsehood of the Trinity, the meaning and greatness of the name of Jehovah, etc, etc, etc. An elder would really have to struggle to not speak of the "prophecies" of the stupid prophets of Bethel, but it wouldn't be impossible. I am not, and have never been, an elder, so I can't speak from experience but it seems it's possible.

Of course, should some stupid edict be enacted that a Brother giving talks from the stage must be "vaccinated", then all bets are off and it's time to get out. They're heading there with their last hot turd about Elders needed to be jabbed to attend the elder's school, but there not quite there yet IMO.

I would love to hear more from you Elders that are currently in the org like Nobium was, but have since discovered the truth about the truth. What challenges are you facing? Does it look like you'll have to pull the pin soon?
 

Eventhorizon

Well-known member
Niobium pulls the pins and speaks truth bombs. It is an arduous task to dance around semantics as stated. And an elder does more than just talks, as they have to toe the party line on the borg parts on the midweek meeting parts and the WT study. It was stated in the initial post on this topic ."..On a local level there is nothing that can be done to effect any sort of change in the established teachings and policies. Since that is the case, Jehovah would not hold local elders responsible for teaching something that proves to be in error."...

Well what do you do when you KNOW that it is an error? And you know that they KNOW it is an error?

Also, of particular concern to me is the new KH security protocols which are 3-4 pages long. Elders/Servants are not security personnel, and the borg are implementing a number of strict procedures to be followed. I feel that should an incident occur, the borg will go down the list and say points x,y,z were not followed as we outlined; therefore, who would get thrown under the bus?

Not to mention the opening of Bethel for tour is only to 'approved' individuals who have a borg interweb account and also green lit by the local body of elders. So if something happens up there, guess who will get thrown under the bus.

Rumor is all the elders in PA are getting subpoenas for CSA info, which will probably only expand to additional states in future.

So there are all sorts of reasons that things are getting tough for appointed ones.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Niobium pulls the pins and speaks truth bombs. It is an arduous task to dance around semantics as stated. And an elder does more than just talks, as they have to toe the party line on the borg parts on the midweek meeting parts and the WT study. It was stated in the initial post on this topic ."..On a local level there is nothing that can be done to effect any sort of change in the established teachings and policies. Since that is the case, Jehovah would not hold local elders responsible for teaching something that proves to be in error."...

Well what do you do when you KNOW that it is an error? And you know that they KNOW it is an error?

Also, of particular concern to me is the new KH security protocols which are 3-4 pages long. Elders/Servants are not security personnel, and the borg are implementing a number of strict procedures to be followed. I feel that should an incident occur, the borg will go down the list and say points x,y,z were not followed as we outlined; therefore, who would get thrown under the bus?

Not to mention the opening of Bethel for tour is only to 'approved' individuals who have a borg interweb account and also green lit by the local body of elders. So if something happens up there, guess who will get thrown under the bus.

Rumor is all the elders in PA are getting subpoenas for CSA info, which will probably only expand to additional states in future.

So there are all sorts of reasons that things are getting tough for appointed ones.
Times sure have changed!
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
The " overlapping generation" teaching ( which seems to have been buried to some degree) is a right insult to intelligence
That is so true Niobium…I wish I’d seen that as a big red flag when Splane with his pointer stick explaining that craziness. I only remember thinking how difficult that would be to teach a Bible student. How ridiculous!

Little did the WT realize or maybe they did and just didn’t care is that Jesus only spoke of ONE generation, NOT GENERATIONS.
He said:
“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Matthew 24:34

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Mark 13:30

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all things happen.” —Luke 21:32


The three different gospel accounts say the same thing concerning this. Which one of these verses did they not understand??
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Of course, should some stupid edict be enacted that a Brother giving talks from the stage must be "vaccinated", then all bets are off and it's time to get out. They're heading there with their last hot turd about Elders needed to be jabbed to attend the elder's school, but there not quite there yet IMO.
Lol 😂 🤣 😂 that’s just too hilarious kirmmy! I couldn’t stop laughing! 😅
 

DR75 less 1

Well-known member
That is so true Niobium…I wish I’d seen that as a big red flag when Splane with his pointer stick explaining that craziness. I only remember thinking how difficult that would be to teach a Bible student. How ridiculous!

Little did the WT realize or maybe they did and just didn’t care is that Jesus only spoke of ONE generation, NOT GENERATIONS.
He said:
“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Matthew 24:34

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Mark 13:30

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all things happen.” —Luke 21:32


The three different gospel accounts say the same thing concerning this. Which one of these verses did they not understand??

Then there is the question of who is identified by "This Generation" Anyway Splane's splain, as you say is ridiculous.
 
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evw

Well-known member
That is so true Niobium…I wish I’d seen that as a big red flag when Splane with his pointer stick explaining that craziness. I only remember thinking how difficult that would be to teach a Bible student. How ridiculous!

Little did the WT realize or maybe they did and just didn’t care is that Jesus only spoke of ONE generation, NOT GENERATIONS.
He said:
“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Matthew 24:34

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Mark 13:30

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all things happen.” —Luke 21:32


The three different gospel accounts say the same thing concerning this. Which one of these verses did they not understand??
All of them? 1684046104815.png
 

Niobium

Well-known member
That is so true Niobium…I wish I’d seen that as a big red flag when Splane with his pointer stick explaining that craziness. I only remember thinking how difficult that would be to teach a Bible student. How ridiculous!

Little did the WT realize or maybe they did and just didn’t care is that Jesus only spoke of ONE generation, NOT GENERATIONS.
He said:
“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Matthew 24:34

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” —Mark 13:30

“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all things happen.” —Luke 21:32


The three different gospel accounts say the same thing concerning this. Which one of these verses did they not understand??
Maybe this chart gives some insight into the overlapping generation teaching. I was going to send it to Bro Splane but I never got round to doing that. I included a third generation to overlap just in case it was needed. You never know.....

Overlaping generation.jpg
 
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