The locust plague of Rev: Those who do not have the "seal" only applies to the anointed. Right?

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KevinB

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Before you answer read the following:

You may feel the other sheep are not the ones referred to in the locust plague, because they do not have the seal of anointing. However, in regard to those not anointed notice Paul's words in Romans 4:11 - “And he (Abraham) received a sign—namely, circumcision—as a seal of the righteousness by the faith he had while in his uncircumcised state, so that he might be the father of all those having faith while uncircumcised, in order for righteousness to be counted to them”. Remember circumcision was merely a sign of that 'seal of righteousness' given to Abraham, and he was referred to as the father to all those having faith. Similar to the anointed, the other sheep must demonstrate they have a ‘seal of righteousness' during the 3 ½ years by refusing to worship the wild beast or except its mark.

Therefore when the locusts are instructed to harm only those who do not have the seal, the other sheep could be included in that directive based on the following words of Paul: “You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness and he came to be called Jehovah’s friend.” (Jas 2:21-23) The 3 ½ years will be one of the greatest tests the other sheep will face, on an Abrahamic level, this side of Armageddon. Therefore its stands to reason that they must demonstrate that they have the 'seal of righteousness', as a friend of God, while supporting their anointed brothers and sisters.

In another portion of Romans, in referring to the anointed, Paul applied prophecies of the nations or gentiles being gathered with his people, with both groups being anointed and having a sharing with Christ. But the principle obviously goes beyond that and must also be extended to include the other sheep being joined with the anointed as God’s people. Paul stated - “For I tell you that Christ became a minister of those who are circumcised in behalf of God’s truthfulness, so as to verify the promises He made to their forefathers, and that the nations might glorify God for his mercy. Just as it is written: “That is why I will openly acknowledge you among the nations, and to your name I will sing praises.” And again he says: “Be glad, you nations, with his people.” And again: “Praise Jehovah, all you nations, and let all the peoples praise him.” And again Isaiah says: “There will be the root of Jesse, the one arising to rule nations; on him nations will rest their hope.” (Ro 15:7-12) When the prophecies being quoted by Paul are fulfilled among the anointed, they must out of necessity extend to the other sheep.

It should go without saying that the other sheep’s share in Christ is different than the anointed, but still they have a sharing in union with Christ in harmony with their hope to inherit the earth as “children of God”. (See: Ro 8:19-21) Because of Christ’s ransom, Jehovah can say to those faithful of the other sheep, “those not my people I will call ‘my people’” as they demonstrate they have a ‘seal of righteousness’ through the 3 ½ years.
 
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KevinB

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Just to Clarify: The question is about those "not harmed" by Revelation's locust plague, those who have the "seal". (Re 9:1-11) Must that "seal" refer only to the seal of the anointed?
 

LuisMerino9412

Well-known member
Before you answer read the following:

You may feel the other sheep are not the ones referred to in the locust plague, because they do not have the seal of anointing. However, in regard to those not anointed notice Paul's words in Romans 4:11 - “And he (Abraham) received a sign—namely, circumcision—as a seal of the righteousness by the faith he had while in his uncircumcised state, so that he might be the father of all those having faith while uncircumcised, in order for righteousness to be counted to them”. Remember circumcision was merely a sign of that 'seal of righteousness' given to Abraham, and he was referred to as the father to all those having faith. Similar to the anointed, the other sheep must demonstrate they have a ‘seal of righteousness' during the 3 ½ years by refusing to worship the wild beast or except its mark.

Therefore when the locusts are instructed to harm only those who do not have the seal, the other sheep could be included in that directive based on the following words of Paul: “You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness and he came to be called Jehovah’s friend.” (Jas 2:21-23) The 3 ½ years will be one of the greatest tests the other sheep will face, on an Abrahamic level, this side of Armageddon. Therefore its stands to reason that they must demonstrate that they have the 'seal of righteousness', as a friend of God, while supporting their anointed brothers and sisters.

In another portion of Romans, in referring to the anointed, Paul applied prophecies of the nations or gentiles being gathered with his people, with both groups being anointed and having a sharing with Christ. But the principle obviously goes beyond that and must also be extended to include the other sheep being joined with the anointed as God’s people. Paul stated - “For I tell you that Christ became a minister of those who are circumcised in behalf of God’s truthfulness, so as to verify the promises He made to their forefathers, and that the nations might glorify God for his mercy. Just as it is written: “That is why I will openly acknowledge you among the nations, and to your name I will sing praises.” And again he says: “Be glad, you nations, with his people.” And again: “Praise Jehovah, all you nations, and let all the peoples praise him.” And again Isaiah says: “There will be the root of Jesse, the one arising to rule nations; on him nations will rest their hope.” (Ro 15:7-12) When the prophecies being quoted by Paul are fulfilled among the anointed, they must out of necessity extend to the other sheep.

It should go without saying that the other sheep’s share in Christ is different than the anointed, but still they have a sharing in union with Christ in harmony with their hope to inherit the earth as “children of God”. (See: Ro 8:19-21) Because of Christ’s ransom, Jehovah can say to those faithful of the other sheep, “those not my people I will call ‘my people’” as they demonstrate they have a ‘seal of righteousness’ through the 3 ½ years.
The locusts will only torment the enemies of God. The great crowd will be with them giving a witness that will torment the inhabitants of the earth too. That's mentioned in Joel. By then, the division between righteous and wicked will clear. The locusts and the Great crowd will know who to torment.
The great crowd will have a mark on their heads in some way too like Ezekiel shows.
 
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KevinB

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The locusts will only torment the enemies of God. The great crowd will be with them giving a witness that will torment the inhabitants of the earth too. That's mentioned in Joel. By then, the division between righteous and wicked will clear. The locusts and the Great crowd will know who to torment.
The great crowd will have a mark on their heads in some way too like Ezekiel shows.
You might enjoy this read, the locust plague is covered in Chapter 8. https://drive.proton.me/urls/MGB6XAB7B4#NHUu5CjJib8A
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
The locusts will only torment the enemies of God. The great crowd will be with them giving a witness that will torment the inhabitants of the earth too. That's mentioned in Joel. By then, the division between righteous and wicked will clear. The locusts and the Great crowd will know who to torment.
The great crowd will have a mark on their heads in some way too like Ezekiel shows.
Heres my take: Before they are martyred, those pouring out the golden liquid (Zech4:12) during the 1,260 days will under Christ's Headship in unison with their companion survivors (Isa1:9) encourage(Rev11:7) hopefully a 'large great crowd!'? It's hard to imagine any need for an ambulance when Zion is set up, 'No resident will say...Isa 33:24'? Infact the whole of Isaiah 35 instead of being entrenched through W@tchtower as being post Armageddon is looking more and more imminent?
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
You might enjoy this read, the locust plague is covered in Chapter 8. https://drive.proton.me/urls/MGB6XAB7B4#NHUu5CjJib8A
Not finished reading this article yet and so far I find it very interesting and intriguing!!! Can you say where you got this from?
And because it’s so interesting, I couldn’t stop reading it then I noticed how long the article is. I did have to go back and reread certain paragraphs a couple of times so I could comprehend it better. This definitely is a lot to take in.

And I haven’t even got to the locust plague covered in Chapter 8!
Thanks for sharing. 👍🏼
 
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K

KevinB

Guest
Not finished reading this article yet and so far I find it very interesting and intriguing!!! Can you say where you got this from?
And because it’s so interesting, I couldn’t stop reading it then I noticed how long the article is. I did have to go back and reread certain paragraphs a couple of times so I could comprehend it better. This definitely is a lot to take in.

And I haven’t even got to the locust plague covered in Chapter 8!
Thanks for sharing. 👍🏼
Who put it together isn't important. What's important is whether its accurate and glorifies Jehovah and his Son.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Who put it together isn't important. What's important is whether its accurate and glorifies Jehovah and his Son.
@KevinB

Ok, point well taken. I stand corrected!

You’re absolutely right, the important thing is it’s accuracy and whether it glorifies Jehovah and his Son.

Although, I am still reading it. And it’s very good article that makes so much sense as to why the things we are seeing these things taking place around us and how the organization plays into it.
 
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Manoah

Member
Who put it together isn't important. What's important is whether its accurate and glorifies Jehovah and his Son.
Dear Bro Kevin, I believe this closely reflects what we have seen over the past many years and outstandingly the last 2 years. It is extremely relevant and encouraging for our current situation and does indeed bring praise to our God, thank you.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
One thing that comes to mind is how there are parallels in the scripture from the past to the future. Even though the Sealed are automatically protected from the plagues to come upon the earth, it seems like this situation mimics when the Israelites were in the city of Goshen in Egypt. When the plagues came upon the land, Goshen was the only safe space provided the people stayed in there. When the final affliction came through the form of the angel of death the Israelites had to follow the instructions of Moses & Aaron (putting lambs blood on the doorway). In a way the Chosen may play a similar role in the end where the Great Crowd will have to obey the Sealed one's instructions that they receive from Jesus. In the end who really knows so we'll have to wait & see.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
@KevinB

Ok, point well taken. I stand corrected!

You’re absolutely right, the important thing is it’s accuracy and whether it glorifies Jehovah and his Son.

Although, I am still reading it. And it’s very good article that makes so much sense as to why the things we are seeing these things taking place around us and how the organization plays into it.

Curious, are you JW or Ex-JW or just interested in the bible? Feel free to ignore if you don't want to answer.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Curious, are you JW or Ex-JW or just interested in the bible? Feel free to ignore if you don't want to answer.
I‘ve been mostly ‘under the radar’ especially the last couple of months..Since it wasn’t until last summer that I was having strong suspicions over the leadership of the WT because of their stance on these vaccine injections.

I continued to learn more about the “lawlessness“ taking place in the organization, so my conscience will no longer allow me to be a part of this kind of worship. I dedicated my life to Jehovah, not an organization.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
Just to Clarify: The question is about those "not harmed" by Revelation's locust plague, those who have the "seal". (Re 9:1-11) Must that "seal" refer only to the seal of the anointed?

“The locust plague of Rev: Those who do not have the “seal” only applies to the anointed Right?”

Curious, are you assuming that the locusts mentioned here (Re 9:1-11) are the same locusts as here (Joel 1:4-7)? Are you also assuming that Joel is referring to the trampling on Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 BCE? You do see that Joel does not mention the Babylonians right?

Back to your question: Based on your assumptions? it has not occurred to you that maybe the anointed are the locusts spoken of in Rev 9:1-11? hence having/not having; the “seal” is a non-issue since they will be causing the harm, so to speak. and maybe they are the same group mentioned in Rev 11:1-7? and since at the time of these ones activities of which the other sheep have no part in, plus at that time, they would be under Jehovah’s protection, therefore will have Jehovah’s “seal” of approval. Meaning that those who do not have the “Seal” are the ones slated for destruction?

It hasn’t occurred to you that in reality maybe Joel is speaking of an anti-typical Chaldean or northerner, aka the final manifestation of the King of the north, namely an eighth King in the form of a revamped U.N. with teeth? Joel 1:4-7, 2:20. Although well written and very informative your article is not helpful at explaining the questions you raised?

Just a thought.
 
K

KevinB

Guest
“The locust plague of Rev: Those who do not have the “seal” only applies to the anointed Right?”

Curious, are you assuming that the locusts mentioned here (Re 9:1-11) are the same locusts as here (Joel 1:4-7)? Are you also assuming that Joel is referring to the trampling on Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 BCE? You do see that Joel does not mention the Babylonians right?

Back to your question: Based on your assumptions? it has not occurred to you that maybe the anointed are the locusts spoken of in Rev 9:1-11? hence having/not having; the “seal” is a non-issue since they will be causing the harm, so to speak. and maybe they are the same group mentioned in Rev 11:1-7? and since at the time of these ones activities of which the other sheep have no part in, plus at that time, they would be under Jehovah’s protection, therefore will have Jehovah’s “seal” of approval. Meaning that those who do not have the “Seal” are the ones slated for destruction?

It hasn’t occurred to you that in reality maybe Joel is speaking of an anti-typical Chaldean or northerner, aka the final manifestation of the King of the north, namely an eighth King in the form of a revamped U.N. with teeth? Joel 1:4-7, 2:20. Although well written and very informative your article is not helpful at explaining the questions you raised?

Just a thought.
Yes, read Chapter 8 carefully, then we can discuss
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
Yes, read Chapter 8 carefully, then we can discuss

Your comments are just different to mine and much of what you say I will probably agree with. But there are one or two points you make that are a little off. As the thoughts I posted point out. I'm a student and follower of our brother King. So far the stuff that I study of his has not caused me to stumble. Not saying that I agree with all of his stuff. StilI, I will continue to let him teach me if that is Ok with you?
 
K

KevinB

Guest
I'm not God to stop you. believe what you like
Your comments are just different to mine and much of what you say I will probably agree with. But there are one or two points you make that are a little off. As the thoughts I posted point out. I'm a student and follower of our brother King. So far the stuff that I study of his has not caused me to stumble. Not saying that I agree with all of his stuff. StilI, I will continue to let him teach me if that is Ok with you?
"Your comments are just different to mine and much of what you say I will probably agree with." Slightly confusing! If you have a few points to bring up, then do tell. No need to be a new member to ask a couple of questions.
 
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