When Thinking Of How Bad It Will Get During The GT - Have Your Ever Asked: "Then What"?

BillyRay

BillyRay

Well-known member
PJ54 said:
ey @Watchman , I don't know if you have seen the recent article on jw.org but the last part was concerning for me since it really shows how unprepared the friends are if all hell breaks loose. Here's the link:

Click to expand...
I'm starting this thread based on the above quote from @PJ54. He points out an article from JW.org (see link above). While the article gets some things right - it falls extremely short on the potential for actual chaos in human society during the Great Tribulation . I thought I'd share some thoughts on the topic. I apologize for the doom and gloom here. But the Watchtower clearly hasn't thought this through and asked: "What then?".

First - from the article - this part is actually quite infuriating to me... The sub-heading asks the question and provides their answer:

"Will all human society ultimately descend into complete chaos?​

No. Human society will not break down completely."

I believe this information to be incorrect, and a complete disservice to anyone who reads it. What does the Bible say about how bad things will get?

Matthew 24: 21-22 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

We are assured that what is to come, will be unlike anything ever seen on earth before. Take just a moment and think about the horrors that humankind has perpetrated on itself. No matter what horrible, cruel, and debauched things you can possibly think of.... Jesus' words in Matthew tell us that things will be worse. The WT hides behind the word "all" in the question - and "completely" in the answer. The two phrases seem lukewarm but gives a certain feeling of security - similar to the false assurance that Peter gave to Jesus that Matthew 16:22.

So, no matter what kicks it off - whether it be financial collapse, EMP, nuclear exchange, world war, etc.... Chaos is going to be the order of the day! I've thought this scenario through. Thinking on Jesus's words - what could possibly be worse than what we've already seen? Thinking about the chaos to come, I tried to go past the obvious cause - and think about the effect. I'd reason, "if this thing were to happen - then what?" "If that thing were to happen - then what?" "If we see this, then what?" Unlike the reassuring comments from the Watchtower shown above, Chaos is assured. But, then what?

Any of the scenarios mentioned above could start the ball rolling.... A financial collapse would mean that cash money would be worthless. Any ban account balance or savings you had - will be gone. Robert has many times pointed out the German Weimar Republic - a country where the financial crash was so significant, that a wheel barrow full of cash would buy you a single loaf of bread. So who will go to work to be paid in a valueless currency? Yet it all results in the same outcome. After a Tribulation-type scenario, most all production will stop. Companies are out of business. There are some jobs - but how can you work for a deflated currency? Shipping of most products ceases. Crime escalates and the rule of law becomes non-existent as police stop reporting to work in order to stay home and protect their own families. There are runs on food, the supplies of daily living, banks, and gasoline - all stores are emptied without any hope of resupply. Since cash is valueless, trading and bartering become the new currency. Some precious metals may hold value - but if you can't eat it, or drink it - it's pretty much worthless. The strong (criminals) will take supplies from the weak - preying on them. This results in injury or death to many. Keep in mind, a human can go three to four days without drinking water, and about 2-3 weeks without any food before they die. People will starve to death, die from dehydration, die from unclean water, and die from unsanitary conditions.

Then what? If there's no power, people instantly find themselves back in the late 1800's. All lighting, heating, cooling, and refrigeration are gone. The facilities that purify and pump our water, and supply our natural gas, are all run by electricity. Those would be off line. No more deliveries of fuel oil or LP gas. No more showers or baths. Wood becomes the primary source for heating and cooking. But green wood doesn't burn particularly well. So dead wood will be used up quickly - especially in urban areas. Clean water sources are scarce - especially in most cities. The ability to purify water becomes non-existent without a heating source to boil water. People - needing water - drink from contaminated sources causing an agonizing death after ingesting parasites and amoebas. After the gasoline powered hospital generators run out of fuel - there will be no more emergency rooms, hospitals, surgeries or treatments. People will start dying of simple infections - something we haven't seen since the invention of antibiotics. Most prescription drugs are manufactured abroad. Once the local supply runs out - there will be no more. One in ten Americans take anti-depressants. When their scripts gone - and the pharmacy either sold out or looted - they will suffer difficult withdrawl symptoms. With no refrigeration - insulin will spoil. There are 37 million diabetics in the USA - about 40% are insulin dependent. The future is bleak for such ones. So, then what?

Eventually, bands of the criminal strong, will arm themselves heavily, and rove about - raping and killing as they steal supplies to keep themselves alive. Citizens, neighbors, and friends - already armed - will try to defend themselves - with unknown success. The military will be so spread out that it'll be impossible for them to keep any sort of rule of law - especially if they're trying to repel an invasion.

Now... a nuclear war will not only kill millions within the immediate blast radius... But radiation and nuclear fallout will cause millions more to die an agonizing death - as it falls on and contaminates everything - including water sources. There's some thought that if you can get below ground and seal off any air passages into the basement - and have 3 weeks of supplies, that you can wait out the fallout. But short of having a Geiger Counter - how do you know?

You see.... in any of these scenarios - it's not just the immediate deaths. It's the ones that continue to come day after day - as long as the Great Tribulation is allowed to continue.

So,, saying: No. Human society will not break down completely." is completely irresponsible in my view. I can't help but think that @PJ54's quote is absolutely correct when he says: "the last part was concerning for me since it really shows how unprepared the friends are if all hell breaks loose."

​

 
Last edited:
Many of the faithless will most likely perish which ,in the final analysis, wont be the worst that could happen since their death will be the first (Adamic) death from which a resurrection during the thousand year kingdom reign will be possible.
Jehovah may mercifully permit many to be concealed there during that extreme period of hardship,
For those with faith there are so many examples of Jehovahs miraculous provision in what would have seemed impossible conditions such as when the Israelites (over a million) came out of Egypt into an inhospitable wilderness.
He gave them manna, meat and water and saw to it that even their clothes wouldn’t wear out.
He appointed ravens to bring Elijah his breakfast and supper.
Imagine the look on some Israelite woman’s face who had left a loaf of bread or some lamb on the window ledge to cool and return to find it gone.
Same Elijah who ,on account of a Sidonian woman’s generosity during a years long famine, blessed her and her child with an endless supply of grain and oil from her food storage vessels.
Same Elijah who when being hounded by Jezebel, fled into the wilderness .
Tired, depressed and no doubt hungry, awoke to find an angel had prepared him a meal which in the strength of just that and a second helping was strengthened to go forty more days.
His successor Elisha miraculously purified a poisonous water source that from that day forward remained pure.
These are just a few accounts of miraculous provision from Jehovah during trying times.
Jehovah has always been caring for us quietly behind the scenes during our lifetime creating circumstances within which we have been perfectly cared for.
During the crucible of the Great Tribulation I’d venture to say that, in line with the prophecy at Joel 2, we’ll personally experience a far greater spiritual awareness and strength as well as have our physical needs cared for.
Maybe Jehovah will take our hunger away.
Maybe we’ll die.
If that happens, we can be assured that we will be given the ability to draw our last breath as a faithful son or daughter of God and with dignity.
 
BillyRay said:
I'm starting this thread based on the above quote from @PJ54. He points out an article from JW.org (see link above). While the article gets some things right - it falls extremely short on the potential for actual chaos in human society during the Great Tribulation . I thought I'd share some thoughts on the topic. I apologize for the doom and gloom here. But the Watchtower clearly hasn't thought this through and asked: "What then?".

First - from the article - this part is actually quite infuriating to me... The sub-heading asks the question and provides their answer:

"Will all human society ultimately descend into complete chaos?​

No. Human society will not break down completely."

I believe this information to be incorrect, and a complete disservice to anyone who reads it. What does the Bible say about how bad things will get?

Matthew 24: 21-22 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

We are assured that what is to come, will be unlike anything ever seen on earth before. Take just a moment and think about the horrors that humankind has perpetrated on itself. No matter what horrible, cruel, and debauched things you can possibly think of.... Jesus' words in Matthew tell us that things will be worse. The WT hides behind the word "all" in the question - and "completely" in the answer. The two phrases seem lukewarm but gives a certain feeling of security - similar to the false assurance that Peter gave to Jesus that Matthew 16:22.

So, no matter what kicks it off - whether it be financial collapse, EMP, nuclear exchange, world war, etc.... Chaos is going to be the order of the day! I've thought this scenario through. Thinking on Jesus's words - what could possibly be worse than what we've already seen? Thinking about the chaos to come, I tried to go past the obvious cause - and think about the effect. I'd reason, "if this thing were to happen - then what?" "If that thing were to happen - then what?" "If we see this, then what?" Unlike the reassuring comments from the Watchtower shown above, Chaos is assured. But, then what?

Any of the scenarios mentioned above could start the ball rolling.... A financial collapse would mean that cash money would be worthless. Any ban account balance or savings you had - will be gone. Robert has many times pointed out the German Weimar Republic - a country where the financial crash was so significant, that a wheel barrow full of cash would buy you a single loaf of bread. So who will go to work to be paid in a valueless currency? Yet it all results in the same outcome. After a Tribulation-type scenario, most all production will stop. Companies are out of business. There are some jobs - but how can you work for a deflated currency? Shipping of most products ceases. Crime escalates and the rule of law becomes non-existent as police stop reporting to work in order to stay home and protect their own families. There are runs on food, the supplies of daily living, banks, and gasoline - all stores are emptied without any hope of resupply. Since cash is valueless, trading and bartering become the new currency. Some precious metals may hold value - but if you can't eat it, or drink it - it's pretty much worthless. The strong (criminals) will take supplies from the weak - preying on them. This results in injury or death to many. Keep in mind, a human can go three to four days without drinking water, and about 2-3 weeks without any food before they die. People will starve to death, die from dehydration, die from unclean water, and die from unsanitary conditions.

Then what? If there's no power, people instantly find themselves back in the late 1800's. All lighting, heating, cooling, and refrigeration are gone. The facilities that purify and pump our water, and supply our natural gas, are all run by electricity. Those would be off line. No more deliveries of fuel oil or LP gas. No more showers or baths. Wood becomes the primary source for heating and cooking. But green wood doesn't burn particularly well. So dead wood will be used up quickly - especially in urban areas. Clean water sources are scarce - especially in most cities. The ability to purify water becomes non-existent without a heating source to boil water. People - needing water - drink from contaminated sources causing an agonizing death after ingesting parasites and amoebas. After the gasoline powered hospital generators run out of fuel - there will be no more emergency rooms, hospitals, surgeries or treatments. People will start dying of simple infections - something we haven't seen since the invention of antibiotics. Most prescription drugs are manufactured abroad. Once the local supply runs out - there will be no more. One in ten Americans take anti-depressants. When their scripts gone - and the pharmacy either sold out or looted - they will suffer difficult withdrawl symptoms. With no refrigeration - insulin will spoil. There are 37 million diabetics in the USA - about 40% are insulin dependent. The future is bleak for such ones. So, then what?

Eventually, bands of the criminal strong, will arm themselves heavily, and rove about - raping and killing as they steal supplies to keep themselves alive. Citizens, neighbors, and friends - already armed - will try to defend themselves - with unknown success. The military will be so spread out that it'll be impossible for them to keep any sort of rule of law - especially if they're trying to repel an invasion.

Now... a nuclear war will not only kill millions within the immediate blast radius... But radiation and nuclear fallout will cause millions more to die an agonizing death - as it falls on and contaminates everything - including water sources. There's some thought that if you can get below ground and seal off any air passages into the basement - and have 3 weeks of supplies, that you can wait out the fallout. But short of having a Geiger Counter - how do you know?

You see.... in any of these scenarios - it's not just the immediate deaths. It's the ones that continue to come day after day - as long as the Great Tribulation is allowed to continue.

So,, saying: No. Human society will not break down completely." is completely irresponsible in my view. I can't help but think that @PJ54's quote is absolutely correct when he says: "the last part was concerning for me since it really shows how unprepared the friends are if all hell breaks loose."

​

Click to expand...
They no nothing of Zion do they? The place the Nations stream up to Joel 3:1,2?
 
kenmuldoon55 said:
Many of the faithless will most likely perish which ,in the final analysis, wont be the worst that could happen since their death will be the first (Adamic) death from which a resurrection during the thousand year kingdom reign will be possible.
Jehovah may mercifully permit many to be concealed there during that extreme period of hardship,
For those with faith there are so many examples of Jehovahs miraculous provision in what would have seemed impossible conditions such as when the Israelites (over a million) came out of Egypt into an inhospitable wilderness.
He gave them manna, meat and water and saw to it that even their clothes wouldn’t wear out.
He appointed ravens to bring Elijah his breakfast and supper.
Imagine the look on some Israelite woman’s face who had left a loaf of bread or some lamb on the window ledge to cool and return to find it gone.
Same Elijah who ,on account of a Sidonian woman’s generosity during a years long famine, blessed her and her child with an endless supply of grain and oil from her food storage vessels.
Same Elijah who when being hounded by Jezebel, fled into the wilderness .
Tired, depressed and no doubt hungry, awoke to find an angel had prepared him a meal which in the strength of just that and a second helping was strengthened to go forty more days.
His successor Elisha miraculously purified a poisonous water source that from that day forward remained pure.
These are just a few accounts of miraculous provision from Jehovah during trying times.
Jehovah has always been caring for us quietly behind the scenes during our lifetime creating circumstances within which we have been perfectly cared for.
During the crucible of the Great Tribulation I’d venture to say that, in line with the prophecy at Joel 2, we’ll personally experience a far greater spiritual awareness and strength as well as have our physical needs cared for.
Maybe Jehovah will take our hunger away.
Maybe we’ll die.
If that happens, we can be assured that we will be given the ability to draw our last breath as a faithful son or daughter of God and with dignity.
Click to expand...
You are alway's with encouragement to faith Ken: I have been grateful for your faith inspired words before.
 
BillyRay said:
I'm starting this thread based on the above quote from @PJ54. He points out an article from JW.org (see link above). While the article gets some things right - it falls extremely short on the potential for actual chaos in human society during the Great Tribulation . I thought I'd share some thoughts on the topic. I apologize for the doom and gloom here. But the Watchtower clearly hasn't thought this through and asked: "What then?".

First - from the article - this part is actually quite infuriating to me... The sub-heading asks the question and provides their answer:

"Will all human society ultimately descend into complete chaos?​

No. Human society will not break down completely."

I believe this information to be incorrect, and a complete disservice to anyone who reads it. What does the Bible say about how bad things will get?

Matthew 24: 21-22 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

We are assured that what is to come, will be unlike anything ever seen on earth before. Take just a moment and think about the horrors that humankind has perpetrated on itself. No matter what horrible, cruel, and debauched things you can possibly think of.... Jesus' words in Matthew tell us that things will be worse. The WT hides behind the word "all" in the question - and "completely" in the answer. The two phrases seem lukewarm but gives a certain feeling of security - similar to the false assurance that Peter gave to Jesus that Matthew 16:22.

So, no matter what kicks it off - whether it be financial collapse, EMP, nuclear exchange, world war, etc.... Chaos is going to be the order of the day! I've thought this scenario through. Thinking on Jesus's words - what could possibly be worse than what we've already seen? Thinking about the chaos to come, I tried to go past the obvious cause - and think about the effect. I'd reason, "if this thing were to happen - then what?" "If that thing were to happen - then what?" "If we see this, then what?" Unlike the reassuring comments from the Watchtower shown above, Chaos is assured. But, then what?

Any of the scenarios mentioned above could start the ball rolling.... A financial collapse would mean that cash money would be worthless. Any ban account balance or savings you had - will be gone. Robert has many times pointed out the German Weimar Republic - a country where the financial crash was so significant, that a wheel barrow full of cash would buy you a single loaf of bread. So who will go to work to be paid in a valueless currency? Yet it all results in the same outcome. After a Tribulation-type scenario, most all production will stop. Companies are out of business. There are some jobs - but how can you work for a deflated currency? Shipping of most products ceases. Crime escalates and the rule of law becomes non-existent as police stop reporting to work in order to stay home and protect their own families. There are runs on food, the supplies of daily living, banks, and gasoline - all stores are emptied without any hope of resupply. Since cash is valueless, trading and bartering become the new currency. Some precious metals may hold value - but if you can't eat it, or drink it - it's pretty much worthless. The strong (criminals) will take supplies from the weak - preying on them. This results in injury or death to many. Keep in mind, a human can go three to four days without drinking water, and about 2-3 weeks without any food before they die. People will starve to death, die from dehydration, die from unclean water, and die from unsanitary conditions.

Then what? If there's no power, people instantly find themselves back in the late 1800's. All lighting, heating, cooling, and refrigeration are gone. The facilities that purify and pump our water, and supply our natural gas, are all run by electricity. Those would be off line. No more deliveries of fuel oil or LP gas. No more showers or baths. Wood becomes the primary source for heating and cooking. But green wood doesn't burn particularly well. So dead wood will be used up quickly - especially in urban areas. Clean water sources are scarce - especially in most cities. The ability to purify water becomes non-existent without a heating source to boil water. People - needing water - drink from contaminated sources causing an agonizing death after ingesting parasites and amoebas. After the gasoline powered hospital generators run out of fuel - there will be no more emergency rooms, hospitals, surgeries or treatments. People will start dying of simple infections - something we haven't seen since the invention of antibiotics. Most prescription drugs are manufactured abroad. Once the local supply runs out - there will be no more. One in ten Americans take anti-depressants. When their scripts gone - and the pharmacy either sold out or looted - they will suffer difficult withdrawl symptoms. With no refrigeration - insulin will spoil. There are 37 million diabetics in the USA - about 40% are insulin dependent. The future is bleak for such ones. So, then what?

Eventually, bands of the criminal strong, will arm themselves heavily, and rove about - raping and killing as they steal supplies to keep themselves alive. Citizens, neighbors, and friends - already armed - will try to defend themselves - with unknown success. The military will be so spread out that it'll be impossible for them to keep any sort of rule of law - especially if they're trying to repel an invasion.

Now... a nuclear war will not only kill millions within the immediate blast radius... But radiation and nuclear fallout will cause millions more to die an agonizing death - as it falls on and contaminates everything - including water sources. There's some thought that if you can get below ground and seal off any air passages into the basement - and have 3 weeks of supplies, that you can wait out the fallout. But short of having a Geiger Counter - how do you know?

You see.... in any of these scenarios - it's not just the immediate deaths. It's the ones that continue to come day after day - as long as the Great Tribulation is allowed to continue.

So,, saying: No. Human society will not break down completely." is completely irresponsible in my view. I can't help but think that @PJ54's quote is absolutely correct when he says: "the last part was concerning for me since it really shows how unprepared the friends are if all hell breaks loose."

​

Click to expand...
JWs think that those who die in the Great Trib are the wicked only. A sister told me once that when the GT comes she and her family are going to camp in their RV and just wait it out. She said she didn’t mind “roughing it” for awhile. This was before i woke up. Even then i felt a stab in my heart- i said silently to myself - i hope she’s right.
 
kenmuldoon55 said:
Jehovah has always been caring for us quietly behind the scenes during our lifetime creating circumstances within which we have been perfectly cared for.
Click to expand...

Amen Ken! It's going to get tough for everyone, we need the full suit of armor for what is coming.

And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days. But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help... (dan 11:33+)
 
Asadour said:
JWs think that those who die in the Great Trib are the wicked only. A sister told me once that when the GT comes she and her family are going to camp in their RV and just wait it out. She said she didn’t mind “roughing it” for awhile. This was before i woke up. Even then i felt a stab in my heart- i said silently to myself - i hope she’s right.
Click to expand...
They have no idea do they.
 
Asadour said:
JWs think that those who die in the Great Trib are the wicked only. A sister told me once that when the GT comes she and her family are going to camp in their RV and just wait it out. She said she didn’t mind “roughing it” for awhile. This was before i woke up. Even then i felt a stab in my heart- i said silently to myself - i hope she’s right.
Click to expand...
I wish all JW’s would come out from under the shroud of ignorance their leaders have put them under. Unfortunately though, as the scripture at Isaiah 28:19 tells us, only terror will wake them up and sadly only a third of them will come to their spiritual senses after the tribulation refines them to the proper degree.
 
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