Maximum level of hypocrisy-Jeffrey Winder: Our Modesty Benefits Others (Matt. 22:39)

Nomex said:
This is a profound statement and nothing could be more true. It's also why they have become a mirror image to the world especially the left. When you can bark at someone that a man is a woman, and say things like, "IT'S MAM", by a hulking 6'6" MAN, yet we are told he's a woman, and he's gonna beat you to death if you believe your lying eyes....then we begin to truly understand what's going on.

It also underscore a very poignant fact. And that fact is, we answer individually to Jehovah, so this idea that Jehovah would use an organization to tell us what the Bible means, rather than truly studying the Bible and finding out for ourselves, goes directly in conflict with Jehovah's purpose that we are all "free moral agents." It's also one of the fundamental problems with Disfellowshipping. If a person is forced to "return to Watchtower, oh wait I mean Jehovah", because of shunning, then what has happened to their free will?

It also illustrates why there really are so many problems within the org...if people really believe that what is required of them is, meeting attendance and field service to gain life, then their really is no depth to a person, and they can excuse all kinds of really bad and horrible behavior, and hide it behind things like "meeting attendance and field service", while at the same time, being a really horrible person.

One thing I have come to realize, is how little most JW's actually know the Bible, if the ExJW community is any kind of reflection, and I think it is. When these people find out about WT lies, they completely lose any and all faith and most of them become atheist. Which to me is the most profound indictment of WT and the GB there is, that when most people find out that WT has lied to them, they leave "the truth" and lose all belief in a creator.
How does that make Jehovah feel? And that I think is the real reason the GB and WT is so worried about so-called apostates, not because of the lies, but because of the truth it reveals, and they the GB cannot stand up to the scrutiny. Not that long ago I had two family members echo the following statement, "when they get on the internet, it's over." Meaning, any time someone reads on the internet about WT the internet destroys the JW's faith...and that is exactly what WT and the GB want you to believe, and sadly it is true for all too many people.

But on the other hand, what does it say, when you can read all the "apostate driven lies" on the internet, and you don't lose your faith in God, and the Bible, but rather your faith in an org run by imperfect, but very power hungry men! Again, another very damning indictment not of the so-called apostate, but of WT and their leaders.
Let's not forget too, what would happen to Jesus, if he returned to the earth in human form again, and started exposing the GB the same way he did the Pharisees!! Would Jesus for example be OK, calling the WT lawyers rather than reporting a crime like child abuse to the authorities that Roman's 13 commands them to do.

But no Roman's 13 is for you unvaccinated scum, not for things like child rape, you uneducated, unsophisticated cur! Who do you think you are, you dog, to think you can think for yourself? Do what WT, (and the UN, WHO, CFR, WEF, and all the other 3 letter agencies, WT's masters), tell you to do and think what they tell you to think!
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Hi Nomex, your description of watchtower is very apt - as is the reaction of those seeing watchtower for what they are and throwing away their faith as if it were nothing. The one saving grace I treasure for myself, is that my faith was never based on watchtower, but upon creation. If it had been watchtower, then I would have lost everything. Creation is a failsafe for people like me that do not “see” prophesy and have to have it explained to them and creation is a rock that is very safe to build upon and withstands all inquiry. I refer to the science of creation rather than the evangelical song and dance that neither enquires into it or learns it’s fabulous intricacies of design.

Looking back , what I see about watchtowers rightful place is its facsimile of the truth. It’s prophesied. Clearly, it had to have, maybe given rather than acquired for itself, an element of truth and which it has to be said, it did have and still does for those sleeping. Had it not, then the deceit would have no value. I look upon it as a commercial form of Judas. He went through the motions and was seen as an apostle - he did play the part - and I assume was not knowingly employed to it, but chose it, and which pretty well mirrors the course of watchtower. As always, those of us who have survived, did not choose watchtower, but the message they carried. All of us here, share a similar basis of belief - we chose the Word within watchtower and that is why we were alert to the emergent incongruities in the Word and survived being torn apart from our association with the lie and stayed faithful to the Word. I’m sure there are many more yet to come out her, as there must be through the world and who have yet to see the light from their own personal “reflections” of truth that the worldly priests have set up for them in imitation of the Word.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Hi Nomex, your description of watchtower is very apt - as is the reaction of those seeing watchtower for what they are and throwing away their faith as if it were nothing. The one saving grace I treasure for myself, is that my faith was never based on watchtower, but upon creation. If it had been watchtower, then I would have lost everything. Creation is a failsafe for people like me that do not “see” prophesy and have to have it explained to them and creation is a rock that is very safe to build upon and withstands all inquiry. I refer to the science of creation rather than the evangelical song and dance that neither enquires into it or learns it’s fabulous intricacies of design.

Looking back , what I see about watchtowers rightful place is its facsimile of the truth. It’s prophesied. Clearly, it had to have, maybe given rather than acquired for itself, an element of truth and which it has to be said, it did have and still does for those sleeping. Had it not, then the deceit would have no value. I look upon it as a commercial form of Judas. He went through the motions and was seen as an apostle - he did play the part - and I assume was not knowingly employed to it, but chose it, and which pretty well mirrors the course of watchtower. As always, those of us who have survived, did not choose watchtower, but the message they carried. All of us here, share a similar basis of belief - we chose the Word within watchtower and that is why we were alert to the emergent incongruities in the Word and survived being torn apart from our association with the lie and stayed faithful to the Word. I’m sure there are many more yet to come out her, as there must be through the world and who have yet to see the light from their own personal “reflections” of truth that the worldly priests have set up for them in imitation of the Word.
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Oh my goodness, I couldn't have said it better myself. I've never understood why people lose belief in a creator just because other people lie about him. So what happens to the likes of us now then? Do we just cling to Jehovah and rely on him totally when this system collapses? Does the bible speak of the likes of us in these last days? If it wasn't for Jehovah's organisation I would literally have died or been murdered in my late 20's due to the state I was in. Surely Jehovah used that organisation to help me? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them, I'm just stating a fact..
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Oh my goodness, I couldn't have said it better myself. I've never understood why people lose belief in a creator just because other people lie about him. So what happens to the likes of us now then? Do we just cling to Jehovah and rely on him totally when this system collapses? Does the bible speak of the likes of us in these last days? If it wasn't for Jehovah's organisation I would literally have died or been murdered in my late 20's due to the state I was in. Surely Jehovah used that organisation to help me? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them, I'm just stating a fact..
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The watchtower I presume was born to be an example. A focal point of the wrath of Jehovah. My assumption in asking the same question as you, is that it stands for all religions - a prostitution of the Name. There is no “what happens to us” without watchtower. It is as it has always been and will remain, in that those who put their faith in Jehovah and His means of salvation will be saved. Those coming out of watchtower face the same question; To whom do you belong?I’m not sure that we have an advantage over them either, because the test is the same for all of us. It surpasses all general issues that we see today - common paradoxes of conscience, and goes straight to the heart of the matter - literally. Heart condition. Those realising the truth will be as determined as we are to put the matter of our faith first - though I have to say it will be a bit more of a shock for those waking up late. However, they will know that they have to get out long before the hammer falls judging by how 67-70CE panned out for Jerusalem. Jehovah wishes none to die, but to attain to salvation. He can do no wrong, so all will be treated equally whether they arrived early or late in the day to work for the master as the scripture points out such a principle. The congregation is asleep, not dead, nor evil in intent, just asleep in order to wake up. Waking up is what proves the issue. It denotes an innocence of a sort through neglect - which is very unsafe to be sure because ignorance is not an excuse. It is the realisation upon waking that sorts those seeking truth from those who sought to blind them. So ”what happens to the likes of us“? Better get out there and buy our oil. In the great scheme of things, our advantage over those sleeping is no more than a few minutes in the same day of hard labour.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
The watchtower I presume was born to be an example. A focal point of the wrath of Jehovah. My assumption in asking the same question as you, is that it stands for all religions - a prostitution of the Name. There is no “what happens to us” without watchtower. It is as it has always been and will remain, in that those who put their faith in Jehovah and His means of salvation will be saved. Those coming out of watchtower face the same question; To whom do you belong?I’m not sure that we have an advantage over them either, because the test is the same for all of us. It surpasses all general issues that we see today - common paradoxes of conscience, and goes straight to the heart of the matter - literally. Heart condition. Those realising the truth will be as determined as we are to put the matter of our faith first - though I have to say it will be a bit more of a shock for those waking up late. However, they will know that they have to get out long before the hammer falls judging by how 67-70CE panned out for Jerusalem. Jehovah wishes none to die, but to attain to salvation. He can do no wrong, so all will be treated equally whether they arrived early or late in the day to work for the master as the scripture points out such a principle. The congregation is asleep, not dead, nor evil in intent, just asleep in order to wake up. Waking up is what proves the issue. It denotes an innocence of a sort through neglect - which is very unsafe to be sure because ignorance is not an excuse. It is the realisation upon waking that sorts those seeking truth from those who sought to blind them. So ”what happens to the likes of us“? Better get out there and buy our oil. In the great scheme of things, our advantage over those sleeping is no more than a few minutes in the same day of hard labour.
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So you speak to people about Jehovah and his purpose and only show them scriptures to help to give them hope, and to teach them all about what happened in the garden, the ransom, the 144,000 rulers in Jesus' kingdom government, the destruction of this system, the 1000yrs peace and security etc etc?
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
So you speak to people about Jehovah and his purpose and only show them scriptures to help to give them hope, and to teach them all about what happened in the garden, the ransom, the 144,000 rulers in Jesus' kingdom government, the destruction of this system, the 1000yrs peace and security etc etc?
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Barnaby is a "unique" member. I would take what he says with a grain of salt cause he's plenty salty enough.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
So you speak to people about Jehovah and his purpose and only show them scriptures to help to give them hope, and to teach them all about what happened in the garden, the ransom, the 144,000 rulers in Jesus' kingdom government, the destruction of this system, the 1000yrs peace and security etc etc?
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Why not speak of His deep, infinite and undeniable LOVE for humanity? About what faith in Jehovah means to you? Why you hold on to it so much, despite your experience with the WT? Just a few other topics you could explore maybe?
 
evw said:
Why not speak of His deep, infinite and undeniable LOVE for humanity? About what faith in Jehovah means to you? Why you hold on to it so much, despite your experience with the WT? Just a few other topics you could explore maybe?
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I do, I always have done, it's all part of the same. It's just that I've never ever met or heard of anyone else believing what we believe. Surely, if there's 1000's of witnesses leaving the organisation and taking the truth with them surely I'd bump into at least one of them? The only ex witnesses I've ever known or met are full of hatred and don't believe the Bible.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
So you speak to people about Jehovah and his purpose and only show them scriptures to help to give them hope, and to teach them all about what happened in the garden, the ransom, the 144,000 rulers in Jesus' kingdom government, the destruction of this system, the 1000yrs peace and security etc etc?
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Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
So you speak to people about Jehovah and his purpose and only show them scriptures to help to give them hope, and to teach them all about what happened in the garden, the ransom, the 144,000 rulers in Jesus' kingdom government, the destruction of this system, the 1000yrs peace and security etc eet
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I am not sure what you are asking. If I can find a way to talk to someone I’ll use it!
 
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Soul Sage said:
Barnaby is a "unique" member. I would take what he says with a grain of salt cause he's plenty salty enough.
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Salty: “Resentful, bitter and irritated manner”?! According to the American dictionary. I hope I don’t come across like that. It’s not intended. I try to present as arrogant, opinionated, and a typically English bigot. I have clearly failed again. I thought I was making headway with “my fellow Americans!” ☹️
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Salty: “Resentful, bitter and irritated manner”?! According to the American dictionary. I hope I don’t come across like that. It’s not intended. I try to present as arrogant, opinionated, and a typically English bigot. I have clearly failed again. I thought I was making headway with “my fellow Americans!” ☹️
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Remind me on the day we meet to buy you a pint. This was so funny I lost some of my beer on my desk top.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I do, I always have done, it's all part of the same. It's just that I've never ever met or heard of anyone else believing what we believe. Surely, if there's 1000's of witnesses leaving the organisation and taking the truth with them surely I'd bump into at least one of them? The only ex witnesses I've ever known or met are full of hatred and don't believe the Bible.
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You will find some, who are like-minded with regard to recognizing the truth as well as the apostasy have developed in the same ORG. And, having been fairly active in the congregation until COVID, I can tell you that we are in the minority but there are more brothers and sisters who are just waiting silently for Jehovah to cleanse the ORG. They do see what is wrong but they still believe the organization is approved by Jehovah. I think that’s a mistake because the scriptures clearly tell us that his temple is in fact the anointed ones, not an organization. Many scriptures about the judgement to come states that they will be judged individually according to their deeds, not according to membership in any ORG. I think the vision of Jesus inspecting the congregations at Revelation chapters 1-3 is really valuable in understanding how Jehovah and Jesus view the congregations. It is a warning as well as a commendation.

Revelation 2:23: “And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.”
 
SusanB said:
You will find some, who are like-minded with regard to recognizing the truth as well as the apostasy have developed in the same ORG. And, having been fairly active in the congregation until COVID, I can tell you that we are in the minority but there are more brothers and sisters who are just waiting silently for Jehovah to cleanse the ORG. They do see what is wrong but they still believe the organization is approved by Jehovah. I think that’s a mistake because the scriptures clearly tell us that his temple is in fact the anointed ones, not an organization. Many scriptures about the judgement to come states that they will be judged individually according to their deeds, not according to membership in any ORG. I think the vision of Jesus inspecting the congregations at Revelation chapters 1-3 is really valuable in understanding how Jehovah and Jesus view the congregations. It is a warning as well as a commendation.

Revelation 2:23: “And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.”
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Good point. 👍 very true.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I do, I always have done, it's all part of the same. It's just that I've never ever met or heard of anyone else believing what we believe. Surely, if there's 1000's of witnesses leaving the organisation and taking the truth with them surely I'd bump into at least one of them? The only ex witnesses I've ever known or met are full of hatred and don't believe the Bible.
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That’s not the case here we all love Jehovah along with the basic truths we learned from the watchtower. It’s just Watchtower has taken a left turn. Have you had a chance to go on YouTube and look up Robert King aka the watchman to watch his videos. If you haven’t it would really be beneficial. I found Roberts videos before I found the forum. You eyes will be opened.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I do, I always have done, it's all part of the same. It's just that I've never ever met or heard of anyone else believing what we believe. Surely, if there's 1000's of witnesses leaving the organisation and taking the truth with them surely I'd bump into at least one of them? The only ex witnesses I've ever known or met are full of hatred and don't believe the Bible.
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Elijah also felt like he was the only faithful man left but he wasn’t and interestingly there were 7,000 other faithful ones that he didn’t know existed. I find that interesting because the number of 7,000 is how many anointed will be sealed during the harvest.

1 Kings 19:14-18: “To this he said: “I have been absolutely zealous for Jehovah the God of armies; for the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, your altars they have torn down, and your prophets they have killed with the sword, and I am the only one left. Now they are seeking to take my life away.” Jehovah said to him: “Return, and go to the wilderness of Damascus. When you arrive, anoint Hazʹa·el as king over Syria. And you should anoint Jeʹhu the grandson of Nimʹshi as king over Israel, and you should anoint E·liʹsha the son of Shaʹphat from Aʹbel-me·hoʹlah as prophet to take your place. Anyone escaping from Hazʹa·el’s sword, Jeʹhu will put to death; and anyone escaping from Jeʹhu’s sword, E·liʹsha will put to death. And I still have left 7,000 in Israel, all whose knees have not bent down to Baʹal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

Romans 11:1-8: “I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means! For I too am an Israelite, of the offspring of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized. Do you not know what the scripture says in connection with E·liʹjah, as he pleads with God against Israel? “Jehovah, they have killed your prophets, they have dug up your altars, and I alone am left, and now they are trying to take my life.” Yet, what does the divine pronouncement say to him? “I have left for myself 7,000 men who have not bent the knee to Baʹal.” So in the same way, at the present time also, there is a remnant according to a choosing through undeserved kindness. Now if it is by undeserved kindness, it is no longer through works; otherwise, the undeserved kindness would no longer be undeserved kindness. What, then? The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it. The rest had their senses dulled, just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, down to this very day.”

Revelation 11:11-13: “After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. In that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; and 7,000 persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.”
 
SusanB said:
Elijah also felt like he was the only faithful man left but he wasn’t and interestingly there were 7,000 other faithful ones that he didn’t know existed. I find that interesting because the number of 7,000 is how many anointed will be sealed during the harvest.

1 Kings 19:14-18: “To this he said: “I have been absolutely zealous for Jehovah the God of armies; for the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, your altars they have torn down, and your prophets they have killed with the sword, and I am the only one left. Now they are seeking to take my life away.” Jehovah said to him: “Return, and go to the wilderness of Damascus. When you arrive, anoint Hazʹa·el as king over Syria. And you should anoint Jeʹhu the grandson of Nimʹshi as king over Israel, and you should anoint E·liʹsha the son of Shaʹphat from Aʹbel-me·hoʹlah as prophet to take your place. Anyone escaping from Hazʹa·el’s sword, Jeʹhu will put to death; and anyone escaping from Jeʹhu’s sword, E·liʹsha will put to death. And I still have left 7,000 in Israel, all whose knees have not bent down to Baʹal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

Romans 11:1-8: “I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means! For I too am an Israelite, of the offspring of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized. Do you not know what the scripture says in connection with E·liʹjah, as he pleads with God against Israel? “Jehovah, they have killed your prophets, they have dug up your altars, and I alone am left, and now they are trying to take my life.” Yet, what does the divine pronouncement say to him? “I have left for myself 7,000 men who have not bent the knee to Baʹal.” So in the same way, at the present time also, there is a remnant according to a choosing through undeserved kindness. Now if it is by undeserved kindness, it is no longer through works; otherwise, the undeserved kindness would no longer be undeserved kindness. What, then? The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it. The rest had their senses dulled, just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, down to this very day.”

Revelation 11:11-13: “After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. In that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; and 7,000 persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.”
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Only 7000 annointed?
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Only 7000 annointed?
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There will ultimately be 144,000. But 7,000 is the number who will be finally sealed at the conclusion of the Christian era when Christ appears to them. They are referred to as the "remaining ones" in the Bible, or "anointed remnant" if you are an oldtimer.

e-watchman.com

What about the 7,000 who are killed?

QUESTION: An article in the January, 2016, Watchtower, on paragraph 14, states that the Bible does not say how many of the anointed will be left at the time that the tribulation begins. However, I have understood from previous podcasts and articles of yours that there will be 7000.
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
 
Watchman said:
There will ultimately be 144,000. But 7,000 is the number who will be finally sealed at the conclusion of the Christian era when Christ appears to them. They are referred to as the "remaining ones" in the Bible, or "anointed remnant" if you are an oldtimer.

e-watchman.com

What about the 7,000 who are killed?

QUESTION: An article in the January, 2016, Watchtower, on paragraph 14, states that the Bible does not say how many of the anointed will be left at the time that the tribulation begins. However, I have understood from previous podcasts and articles of yours that there will be 7000.
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
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It's interesting that only 7,000 will be sealed considering that there are 3 times that many partaking now.
 
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