Maximum level of hypocrisy-Jeffrey Winder: Our Modesty Benefits Others (Matt. 22:39)

[J&P]

Thanks for the welcome. I was referred here by someone on the exjw reddit site. That site was a little helpful in certain areas but on the whole it is a very negative site, there's too many people there that are taking all the things the GB have been saying and doing out on Jehovah, as if Jehovah himself has either changed, or is responsible for all the badness recently, or they all of a sudden have a good excuse not to belive in God anymore just because the GB seem to have changed a lot recently, and I don't feel that way, I don't want to slag Jehovah down, I still believe he exists, I learned about Jehovah when I was a kid, through creation, I didn't know his name, or his purpose, I only learned those things after studying the bible in my mid 20's so nothing or no-one could stop me believing in God.

Great to have you on the forum. As with many on this site, our path seems to be very similar to yours. We, initially, found Br. King's you-tube channel; then, his book which we absolutely devoured. (Still trying to digest it all.)

It took us awhile to find the forum, but all I can say is, this site has been a blessing. We have found a group of people who have experienced similar disappointments with the direction the WT has taken and have had virtually no one with whom to share their feelings. Now we do.
There is a certain comradery on the forum; yet, people speak their mind and sometimes, respectfully, agree to disagree.

Like you, we explored ex-jw sites but, not only were they negative, they trashed almost all the doctrines we still believed were scriptural. As Melinda said, "we all love Jehovah along with the basic truths we learned from the watchtower".
So, hope you enjoy it here as much as we do. (Phyllis)

 

[Nomex]

his book which we absolutely devoured. (Still trying to digest it all.)

It gets easier...I remember when I first started learning all this I felt a little bit like I was in over my head, but then all the pieces started falling together and everything started to make a lot more sense...and I mean everything.

 

[J&P]

It gets easier...I remember when I first started learning all this I felt a little bit like I was in over my head, but then all the pieces started falling together and everything started to make a lot more sense...and I mean everything.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. That's a good way of putting it "in over our head" because that's exactly how we felt. Not that we didn't believe it but wondered if it was ever going to "roll off our tongue". Initially, we found ourselves still thinking in WT language and then translating into Bible teachings.
Kinda like a foreign language - you have to think in that foreign language to be fluent, if you know what I mean. Now we don't think in WT terms.

 

[Nomex]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. That's a good way of putting it "in over our head" because that's exactly how we felt. Not that we didn't believe it but wondered if it was ever going to "roll off our tongue". Initially, we found ourselves still thinking in WT language and then translating into Bible teachings.
Kinda like a foreign language - you have to think in that foreign language to be fluent, if you know what I mean. Now we don't think in WT terms.

For me it was kind of like all my unanswered question some I didn't even realize I had, just started having the answers provided, and I cannot say how many times I was thinking, "now this makes sense." Where as before I left left thinking so often, "well, I'll just have to wait to see how this all plays out"...while at the same time telling myself the GB were just making honest mistakes, and blaming everything wrong with the org, on individual brothers, yet it never occurred to me, the problem was and always had been a "top down" problem and NEVER the other way around, which is in fact how WT spins everything. It's not their fault, it's always our fault, for misunderstanding, expecting too much, or whatever spin WT put on their deceptions. Yet, when you reason on the matter logically, OF COURSE the problem was top down...and that is the whole point, that is the whole point of Jehovah allowing this system controlled by Satan in the first place to continue this long and WT's delusion and deception is all part of it!!!!

 

[J&P]

For me it was kind of like all my unanswered question some I didn't even realize I had, just started having the answers provided, and I cannot say how many times I was thinking, "now this makes sense." Where as before I left left thinking so often, "well, I'll just have to wait to see how this all plays out"...while at the same time telling myself the GB were just making honest mistakes, and blaming everything wrong with the org, on individual brothers, yet it never occurred to me, the problem was and always had been a "top down" problem and NEVER the other way around, which is in fact how WT spins everything. It's not their fault, it's always our fault, for misunderstanding, expecting too much, or whatever spin WT put on their deceptions. Yet, when you reason on the matter logically, OF COURSE the problem was top down...and that is the whole point, that is the whole point of Jehovah allowing this system controlled by Satan in the first place to continue this long and WT's delusion and deception is all part of it!!!!

Ditto! As we said before, Nomex, we like your thinking. Exactly the feelings we had for so long but just couldn't accept the fact that the WT was so wrong and much of it was a big deception.

 

[Bk Kevin]

Ditto! As we said before, Nomex, we like your thinking. Exactly the feelings we had for so long but just couldn't accept the fact that the WT was so wrong and much of it was a big deception.

If you don't mind me asking how long have you guys been with the organization before you realized their corruption and what led you to take note of that corruption, I'm just curious.

 

[J&P]

If you don't mind me asking how long have you guys been with the organization before you realized their corruption and what led you to take note of that corruption, I'm just curious.

I was "born in" 4th generation JW. Phyllis is 3rd generation with almost all of our families in the org.
Guess we were "slow learners" falling right in line with the "wait on Jehovah" syndrome. We still kick ourselves for not seeing through it sooner.

We weren't aware of the UN alliance until fairly recently; if we had been, that would have been huge and that, in itself, would have been a game changer.
The oppressive rules of the LDC were a big problem. (i.e. Br Lett and the 2" brush. Don't know if you heard that broadcast but he told us, if the brother tells you to use the 2" brush, use the 2" brush even if you have a 4" brush or an airless sprayer,)

We weren't real impressed when they threw out the "lifers" from Bethel and began selling Kingdom Halls.

For my wife, in particular, the "overlapping generation" as well as 1914 and the Parousia was something she began to question and really struggle with.

Then co-vid hit. And that was the game changer. We had no doubt the information on the vax was not correct. Then, they invoked Jehovah's name and I remember my wife actually gasped when she heard Splane say it.

So, we began reasoning - if they were wrong about the vax, what else were they wrong about?

At that point, the search was on. We prayed that Jehovah direct us to truth no matter where it took us.
After extensive praying, searching and rejecting numerous ex-jw sites, this is where we landed.
Once we came in contact with watchman, things started falling into place as prophecy took on a whole new meaning - it had the "ring of truth"

 

[Bk Kevin]

I was "born in" 5th generation JW. Phyllis is 3rd generation with almost all of our families in the org.
Guess we were "slow learners" falling right in line with the "wait on Jehovah" syndrome. We still kick ourselves for not seeing through it sooner.

We weren't aware of the UN alliance until fairly recently; if we had been, that would have been huge and that, in itself, would have been a game changer.
The oppressive rules of the LDC were a big problem. (i.e. Br Lett and the 2" brush. Don't know if you heard that broadcast but he told us, if the brother tells you to use the 2" brush, use the 2" brush even if you have a 4" brush or an airless sprayer,)

We weren't real impressed when they threw out the "lifers" from Bethel and began selling Kingdom Halls.

For my wife, in particular, the "overlapping generation" as well as 1914 and the Parousia was something she began to question and really struggle with.

Then co-vid hit. And that was the game changer. We had no doubt the information on the vax was not correct. Then, they invoked Jehovah's name and I remember my wife actually gasped when she Splane said it

So, we began reasoning - if they were wrong about the vax, what else were they wrong about?

At that point, the search was on. We prayed that Jehovah direct us to truth no matter where it took us.
After extensive praying, searching and rejecting numerous ex-jw sites, this is where we landed.
Once we came in contact with watchman, things started falling into place as prophecy took on a whole new meaning - it had the "ring of truth"

Psalm 145:18​

ק [Qohph]18 Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him,aTo all those who call upon him in trueness.*b

Acts 15:17​

17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah,* together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name,* says Jehovah,* who is doing these things,a

1 John 5:14​

14 And this is the confidence* that we have toward him,a that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us.b
PS thank you for sharing.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Great to have you on the forum. As with many on this site, our path seems to be very similar to yours. We, initially, found Br. King's you-tube channel; then, his book which we absolutely devoured. (Still trying to digest it all.)

It took us awhile to find the forum, but all I can say is, this site has been a blessing. We have found a group of people who have experienced similar disappointments with the direction the WT has taken and have had virtually no one with whom to share their feelings. Now we do.
There is a certain comradery on the forum; yet, people speak their mind and sometimes, respectfully, agree to disagree.

Like you, we explored ex-jw sites but, not only were they negative, they trashed almost all the doctrines we still believed were scriptural. As Melinda said, "we all love Jehovah along with the basic truths we learned from the watchtower".
So, hope you enjoy it here as much as we do. (Phyllis)

Great to have you on the forum. As with many on this site, our path seems to be very similar to yours. We, initially, found Br. King's you-tube channel; then, his book which we absolutely devoured. (Still trying to digest it all.)

It took us awhile to find the forum, but all I can say is, this site has been a blessing. We have found a group of people who have experienced similar disappointments with the direction the WT has taken and have had virtually no one with whom to share their feelings. Now we do.
There is a certain comradery on the forum; yet, people speak their mind and sometimes, respectfully, agree to disagree.

Like you, we explored ex-jw sites but, not only were they negative, they trashed almost all the doctrines we still believed were scriptural. As Melinda said, "we all love Jehovah along with the basic truths we learned from the watchtower".
So, hope you enjoy it here as much as we do. (Phyllis)

Thankyou for your kind words who'd have thought we would have ended up in this mess eh?

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

It's interesting that only 7,000 will be sealed considering that there are 3 times that many partaking now.

Yes, I don't understand this bit yet, I've always thought there would be 144,000!!

 

[evw]

I do, I always have done, it's all part of the same. It's just that I've never ever met or heard of anyone else believing what we believe. Surely, if there's 1000's of witnesses leaving the organisation and taking the truth with them surely I'd bump into at least one of them? The only ex witnesses I've ever known or met are full of hatred and don't believe the Bible.

Well in that case, your in good company here. Treasure it

 

[MickHewitt]

Yes, I don't understand this bit yet, I've always thought there would be 144,000!!

What about the 144,000 and 12 tribes?

QUESTION: The seventh chapter of Revelation tells us that the 144,000 are taken from the 12 tribes of Israel —12,000 from each tribe. What do you believe these 12 tribes represent and what does the selection of 144k from these tribes indicate? What of those who are not taken and when

e-watchman.com

144,000 sealed and the Revelation of Christ

QUESTION: How is the number 144,000 inclusive of (if literal) ALL who will go to heaven? A unique feature of the 144,000 sealed ones is indicated at Rev. 6:11 where it says they wait under the altar until "the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brother WHO WERE

e-watchman.com

Where do the 144,000 of Revelation come from?

Stumper Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses, #26 The Watchtower Society teaches that the 144,000 of Rev 7:4 is to be taken literally. If chapter 7 of Revelation is to be taken literally, where then does the Bible say that the 144,000 will come from? (See Rev 7:5- 8)

e-watchman.com

 

[a watcher]

Yes, I don't understand this bit yet, I've always thought there would be 144,000!!

I'll try to explain. The last (final) 7,000 of the 144,000 will receive their final seal just before Armageddon. Although these numbers are probably literal, I'm open to the possibility that they're figurative.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Elijah also felt like he was the only faithful man left but he wasn’t and interestingly there were 7,000 other faithful ones that he didn’t know existed. I find that interesting because the number of 7,000 is how many anointed will be sealed during the harvest.

1 Kings 19:14-18: “To this he said: “I have been absolutely zealous for Jehovah the God of armies; for the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, your altars they have torn down, and your prophets they have killed with the sword, and I am the only one left. Now they are seeking to take my life away.” Jehovah said to him: “Return, and go to the wilderness of Damascus. When you arrive, anoint Hazʹa·el as king over Syria. And you should anoint Jeʹhu the grandson of Nimʹshi as king over Israel, and you should anoint E·liʹsha the son of Shaʹphat from Aʹbel-me·hoʹlah as prophet to take your place. Anyone escaping from Hazʹa·el’s sword, Jeʹhu will put to death; and anyone escaping from Jeʹhu’s sword, E·liʹsha will put to death. And I still have left 7,000 in Israel, all whose knees have not bent down to Baʹal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

Romans 11:1-8: “I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means! For I too am an Israelite, of the offspring of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized. Do you not know what the scripture says in connection with E·liʹjah, as he pleads with God against Israel? “Jehovah, they have killed your prophets, they have dug up your altars, and I alone am left, and now they are trying to take my life.” Yet, what does the divine pronouncement say to him? “I have left for myself 7,000 men who have not bent the knee to Baʹal.” So in the same way, at the present time also, there is a remnant according to a choosing through undeserved kindness. Now if it is by undeserved kindness, it is no longer through works; otherwise, the undeserved kindness would no longer be undeserved kindness. What, then? The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it. The rest had their senses dulled, just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, down to this very day.”

Revelation 11:11-13: “After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. In that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; and 7,000 persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.”

Insightful scriptures.

 

[CyndiaS]

And meantime just keep zooming into the meetings as if we're ok with it all? I feel such a fraud every Thursday and Sunday when I log on. For some time now I only send links to scriptures, I can't bear the thought of sending people to our website anymore. How is everyone in this position coping with all this nonsense? I hate feeling a fraud. I have not lost my faith in Jehovah or in the Bible, I'm just struggling to "prove" it these days.

I feel the exact same way on every point you stated!

 

[J&P]

Thankyou for your kind words who'd have thought we would have ended up in this mess eh?

I know, Who would have thought this could ever happen even in our wildest dreams.
But, as Nomex said, "it get's easier". The resentment and the feelings of betrayal diminish as our love for the truths of what we now know settles in and the anxiety, questions and mistrust we had the org. fades into the background,
For us, it's been replaced with something better and we are at peace with our decision. (Phyllis)

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I know, Who would have thought this could ever happen even in our wildest dreams.
But, as Nomex said, "it get's easier". The resentment and the feelings of betrayal diminish as our love for the truths of what we now know settles in and the anxiety, questions and mistrust we had the org. fades into the background,
For us, it's been replaced with something better and we are at peace with our decision. (Phyllis)

But what exactly is better than have full confidence in the future hope Jehovah gave us through learning about him in the bible?

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

You will find some, who are like-minded with regard to recognizing the truth as well as the apostasy have developed in the same ORG. And, having been fairly active in the congregation until COVID, I can tell you that we are in the minority but there are more brothers and sisters who are just waiting silently for Jehovah to cleanse the ORG. They do see what is wrong but they still believe the organization is approved by Jehovah. I think that’s a mistake because the scriptures clearly tell us that his temple is in fact the anointed ones, not an organization. Many scriptures about the judgement to come states that they will be judged individually according to their deeds, not according to membership in any ORG. I think the vision of Jesus inspecting the congregations at Revelation chapters 1-3 is really valuable in understanding how Jehovah and Jesus view the congregations. It is a warning as well as a commendation.

Revelation 2:23: “And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.”

You will find some, who are like-minded with regard to recognizing the truth as well as the apostasy have developed in the same ORG. And, having been fairly active in the congregation until COVID, I can tell you that we are in the minority but there are more brothers and sisters who are just waiting silently for Jehovah to cleanse the ORG. They do see what is wrong but they still believe the organization is approved by Jehovah. I think that’s a mistake because the scriptures clearly tell us that his temple is in fact the anointed ones, not an organization. Many scriptures about the judgement to come states that they will be judged individually according to their deeds, not according to membership in any ORG. I think the vision of Jesus inspecting the congregations at Revelation chapters 1-3 is really valuable in understanding how Jehovah and Jesus view the congregations. It is a warning as well as a commendation.

Revelation 2:23: “And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.”

Excellent comment, agree

 

[kirmmy]

For me it was kind of like all my unanswered question some I didn't even realize I had, just started having the answers provided, and I cannot say how many times I was thinking, "now this makes sense." Where as before I left left thinking so often, "well, I'll just have to wait to see how this all plays out"...while at the same time telling myself the GB were just making honest mistakes, and blaming everything wrong with the org, on individual brothers, yet it never occurred to me, the problem was and always had been a "top down" problem and NEVER the other way around, which is in fact how WT spins everything. It's not their fault, it's always our fault, for misunderstanding, expecting too much, or whatever spin WT put on their deceptions. Yet, when you reason on the matter logically, OF COURSE the problem was top down...and that is the whole point, that is the whole point of Jehovah allowing this system controlled by Satan in the first place to continue this long and WT's delusion and deception is all part of it!!!!

The abuser always blames the abused. You see it everywhere today and it's bizarre.

 

[J&P]

But what exactly is better than have full confidence in the future hope Jehovah gave us through learning about him in the bible?

Sorry, we didn't see your post yesterday.

Regarding your question of "what exactly is better than having full confidence in the future hope Jehovah gave us about Him in the Bible?
Absolutely nothing. Our confidence, love and faith in Jehovah and his promises is steadfast!

The thing that has changed or been "replaced", for us, is we no longer read the Bible through the interpretation and constraints of the WT (i.e. the 1914 delusion, the overlapping generations and taking the covid jab to "stay in the land of the living"). As one brother so aptly put it, we "read the Bible as it is written". That's not to say that we don't believe Jehovah has used the WT but it's not the organization that's going to take us into the New World.