Why was the realisation of nakedness made a factor in eating from the tree of knowledge. Genesis 3:11.

J

JTK

Well-known member
really good questions that i guess will take some severe speculation to answer.
I have often wondered if Adam and Eve were hiding from each other as well as God because of the new awareness of nakedness
i care not if a fellow man sees me naked in the changing rooms but by golly if a female walked in i would run for cover
did Adam feel the same way?
 
The God Pill

The God Pill

Well-known member
I lean towards the ancient "garments of light" hypothesis essentially in their prefall state there bodies had enough energy whether naturally or via holy spirit to radiate biophoton output at a much higher level than we do now enough there bodies shining would've concealed their genitalia. Man was designed "a little lower than the angels"
 
The God Pill

The God Pill

Well-known member
JTK said:
wow! "garments of Light"
never heard of that, the initial clothing of adam and eve could have been radiating bodily light?
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Yes light energy from all the cells in similar fashion to how cells use the photons with DNA as an antenna but in such a surplus that not only is some of the light released past the perimeter of the electromagnetic field but at an intensity/quantity the shine would be visible.

Maybe some kind of chemical or nuclear reaction supplying energy mitochondria have been observed to be able to accelerate the weak nuclear forces operation on cesium atoms for example.
 
J

JTK

Well-known member
The God Pill said:
Yes light energy from all the cells in similar fashion to how cells use the photons with DNA as an antenna but in such a surplus that not only is some of the light released past the perimeter of the electromagnetic field but at an intensity/quantity the shine would be visible.
Click to expand...
so is that where the complement to a woman comes from "you look truly radiant tonight?:)
 
Cristo

Cristo

Well-known member
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Why was naked self awareness a factor in the fall of man?
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What a great concept, that the human body was capable of nuclear fusion and to radiate light from the body covering our sensitive areas, never heard that one before either. I would love to radiate light like that, especially when I can't find the keyhole to the door, how convenient.

As perfect individuals the physical and spiritual balance was just that, perfect. Maybe, once sin manifested, the shift in balance obviously shifted to the physical side and awareness of their physical attributes outweighed the spiritual presence within them. You are no doubt looking for more but keeping it simple is a good start.
 
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R

RR144

Guest
God knew the answers to the questions, but He asked them (through the Logos) because a strategy was involved. God was not seeking information but was giving Adam and Eve an opportunity to explain themselves.

Each one was willing to blame another, which is true of people today. It takes courage to say, “It is my fault. I was wrong.”

“Who told you that you were naked?” Adam and Eve were aware of the sensation, but the question connected the sensation of nakedness with the transgression. We could have a providence that is retribution, a punishment, but view it otherwise. For instance, we might say, “That experience is common to man.” Another hard experience might not be a punishment at all but a test of our faith in God and in Christ. Or a test might be designed to probe and develop us—and not be a punishment in any sense of the word. Experiences have to be analyzed. We should ask ourselves (and the Lord in prayer), “Why did this happen?” Because of wrongdoing, because of right doing, or because of not doing? At the First Advent, Jesus looked into every experience to see what God’s leadings were. He did not see any of his experiences as happenstance. Jesus’ life was ordered of the Lord. “The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way” (Psa. 37:23). Hence we should try to see things in this light in regard to important events and circumstances.

“Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded you not to eat?” Adam first said he hid because he was afraid and because he was naked, but he did not say, “Because I sinned.” His transgression caused the sensations. The ideal answer would have been, “I transgressed. I disobeyed your commandment. I ate of the tree, and I got this sensation.” God pressed the question to get at the real reason: “Have you eaten of the tree that I commanded you not to eat?” This second question was instructional and illuminating. Adam got the point and then offered another excuse (verse 12).

RR
 
J

JTK

Well-known member
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Why was naked self awareness a factor in the fall of man? Why should it be a part of imperfection, and was the presumption of sexual impropriety due to imperfection a foregone conclusion? Why should imperfection carry this extra burden with it?
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after sleeping on it i still do not have a clue how to even start to answer those questions.
 
J

JTK

Well-known member
Cristo
i have!
it made absolutley no difference, i think its gonna take much more than a caffeine boost to get my head around those questions.
hope you folks can provide some inspiration
The God Pill with the " garments of light" theory has already shown me how dull and basic my understanding of such things are
 
Cristo

Cristo

Well-known member
RR144 said:
Each one was willing to blame another, which is true of people today.
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RR, I'm not sure how that ties in with the original question? It kinda sounds like the regurgitated teaching the WT has taught for decades regarding Adam blaming God and such, but has nothing to do with why the physical perception of each other changed, once the pair had sinned.

Regarding the blaming of God by Adam, we simply do not know how the words were inflected. The WT's view is purely speculation, and doesn't offer much to support it. In fact when looked at it from another view can easily be debunked. It's all speculation, maybe one day we can ask Adam & Eve the specifics.
 
BARNABY THE DOG.

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
The God Pill said:
I lean towards the ancient "garments of light" hypothesis essentially in their prefall state there bodies had enough energy whether naturally or via holy spirit to radiate biophoton output at a much higher level than we do now enough there bodies shining would've concealed their genitalia. Man was designed "a little lower than the angels"
Click to expand...
A penis that glows in the dark on one side and two breast landing lights as a runway guide. Somehow, I don’t think so.
 
BARNABY THE DOG.

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
RR144 said:
God knew the answers to the questions, but He asked them (through the Logos) because a strategy was involved. God was not seeking information but was giving Adam and Eve an opportunity to explain themselves.

Each one was willing to blame another, which is true of people today. It takes courage to say, “It is my fault. I was wrong.”

“Who told you that you were naked?” Adam and Eve were aware of the sensation, but the question connected the sensation of nakedness with the transgression. We could have a providence that is retribution, a punishment, but view it otherwise. For instance, we might say, “That experience is common to man.” Another hard experience might not be a punishment at all but a test of our faith in God and in Christ. Or a test might be designed to probe and develop us—and not be a punishment in any sense of the word. Experiences have to be analyzed. We should ask ourselves (and the Lord in prayer), “Why did this happen?” Because of wrongdoing, because of right doing, or because of not doing? At the First Advent, Jesus looked into every experience to see what God’s leadings were. He did not see any of his experiences as happenstance. Jesus’ life was ordered of the Lord. “The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way” (Psa. 37:23). Hence we should try to see things in this light in regard to important events and circumstances.

“Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded you not to eat?” Adam first said he hid because he was afraid and because he was naked, but he did not say, “Because I sinned.” His transgression caused the sensations. The ideal answer would have been, “I transgressed. I disobeyed your commandment. I ate of the tree, and I got this sensation.” God pressed the question to get at the real reason: “Have you eaten of the tree that I commanded you not to eat?” This second question was instructional and illuminating. Adam got the point and then offered another excuse (verse 12).

RR
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Thanks for you thoughts. I’m not sure what you refer to though of the first advent of Christ. It’s an archaic word of the church here and though I know of the word, I’m not sure of its religious application. Nonetheless, I wonder why awareness of nakedness should be a test of faith, though having you suggest it, control of the issues arising from such awareness has implications toward moral fortitude and thus, as you suggest comes within the spectrum of a test in such. As the scriptures say, one is drawn out by their own desires, yet Jehovah dressed them. At the beginning, there would not be a need to be ashamed of being naked in front of one’s spouse (though ageing bodies is no help either I regret to say) and presumably, for some time after because as siblings, one hardly finds the other attractive or desirable.
That shame in nakedness is not apparent in the animal kingdom lends a clue as to the essential meaning in the genesis of creation. I wonder if nakedness is not part of perfection. Do you have any ideas on that? This isn’t a test - I have no idea myself. I just seek the reasoning on the scripture.
 
BARNABY THE DOG.

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
JTK said:
Cristo
i have!
it made absolutley no difference, i think its gonna take much more than a caffeine boost to get my head around those questions.
hope you folks can provide some inspiration
The God Pill with the " garments of light" theory has already shown me how dull and basic my understanding of such things are
Click to expand...
The answer is simple! It’s the naked truth!
 
BARNABY THE DOG.

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Cristo said:
What a great concept, that the human body was capable of nuclear fusion and to radiate light from the body covering our sensitive areas, never heard that one before either. I would love to radiate light like that, especially when I can't find the keyhole to the door, how convenient.

As perfect individuals the physical and spiritual balance was just that, perfect. Maybe, once sin manifested, the shift in balance obviously shifted to the physical side and awareness of their physical attributes outweighed the spiritual presence within them. You are no doubt looking for more but keeping it simple is a good start.
Click to expand...
Could be. But why should nakedness be shameful? The body is surely the pinnacle of perfection. And of course there is the factor that in terms of sexual attraction, what is not seen is the attraction. Fashion is to show as much as possible without the obvious ‘Wardrobe malfunction”. I wonder is we are looking in the right place. Maybe perfection is an entitlement that we were no longer worthy of, but why is self awareness not part of that?
 
kenmuldoon55

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
The God Pill said:
I lean towards the ancient "garments of light" hypothesis essentially in their prefall state there bodies had enough energy whether naturally or via holy spirit to radiate biophoton output at a much higher level than we do now enough there bodies shining would've concealed their genitalia. Man was designed "a little lower than the angels"
Click to expand...
Fascinating thought.
Who can prove otherwise?
 
J

JTK

Well-known member
i struggle to even understand the questions asked let alone answer them.
but i do like the idea that Adam and Eve were clothed with body generated light , it seems to resonate with scripture with regard to God and angels and the Kingdom of light.
the use of Light is a key factor in the work of God. it seems feasible to me that the first humans glowed in light as their clothing

However its difficult to take a peak over the dark high wall of original sin and see into the days when God declared everything he had made to be "Very Good". even with the benefit of the God Given time machine called the book of Genesis.
i know what i am about say does not entirely harmonise with scripture, its pure speculation, but it seems to me that Adam and Eve must have had zero sexual attraction until after the fall
of Course God said they would become one flesh and he instructed them to multiply and fill the earth and subdue it Gen1;28
But either there was very little time between that command and the fall, or Adam and Eve were as innocent children with no sexual desire in their mental makeup at that time.
surely if they had had sexual desire within their minds from the day they were created a child would have been on its way before Satan had seized the opportunity to cause the fall?
so i lean toward the innocence of our first parents preventing sexual intercourse until that innocence was going to be adjusted.By Jehovah
As we know Satan then steps in and interfears with Gods plan of education by tempting Eve to eat from the forbidden fruit and we all know the outcome.
however we know that God always has a purpose in his works and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil must have been installed in the garden for a reason. for a future purpose, and i think that purpose is key to understanding why Adam and Eve with newly opened eyes after eating the fruit were ashamed.
my question is
if Satan had not tempted Eve and God had eventually allowed Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge would he still have felt ashamed when he realised he was naked.
john
 
BARNABY THE DOG.

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
JTK said:
i struggle to even understand the questions asked let alone answer them.
but i do like the idea that Adam and Eve were clothed with body generated light , it seems to resonate with scripture with regard to God and angels and the Kingdom of light.
the use of Light is a key factor in the work of God. it seems feasible to me that the first humans glowed in light as their clothing

However its difficult to take a peak over the dark high wall of original sin and see into the days when God declared everything he had made to be "Very Good". even with the benefit of the God Given time machine called the book of Genesis.
i know what i am about say does not entirely harmonise with scripture, its pure speculation, but it seems to me that Adam and Eve must have had zero sexual attraction until after the fall
of Course God said they would become one flesh and he instructed them to multiply and fill the earth and subdue it Gen1;28
But either there was very little time between that command and the fall, or Adam and Eve were as innocent children with no sexual desire in their mental makeup at that time.
surely if they had had sexual desire within their minds from the day they were created a child would have been on its way before Satan had seized the opportunity to cause the fall?
so i lean toward the innocence of our first parents preventing sexual intercourse until that innocence was going to be adjusted.By Jehovah
As we know Satan then steps in and interfears with Gods plan of education by tempting Eve to eat from the forbidden fruit and we all know the outcome.
however we know that God always has a purpose in his works and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil must have been installed in the garden for a reason. for a future purpose, and i think that purpose is key to understanding why Adam and Eve with newly opened eyes after eating the fruit were ashamed.
my question is
if Satan had not tempted Eve and God had eventually allowed Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge would he still have felt ashamed when he realised he was naked.
john
Click to expand...
When Eve was brought to meet Adam, his response was to exclaim, “This is at last bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.” It springs to mind then that not only had he experienced a certain isolation or even loneliness, but was also overjoyed by the vision of life before him. I can not really assume to gain-say the creator, but one might assume, given the arrangement for animals, that the same was planned for man from the very beginning. Being “bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh”, does not stop at loneliness, it seems, because Jehovah‘s command to them to fill the earth being “one flesh” does not just include reproduction, but as we all are aware, our sense of self is not complete without a spouse, a compliment to our psyche, reasoning, emotive insight, affections, balance of thought in terms of advocating from either side of the two genders. Flesh of flesh is far more a unison of being than it is of sex (in a balanced world at least).
However, I did not take into account the purpose of the tree, when puzzling over the question, and you are right of course in that there must have been a purpose for it being there, and that would have been I suppose, one of entitlement - though how that entitlement would have been gained is a question worth thinking about in the absence of sin. What would the tree symbolise that Jehovah had to reward loyalty to his governance as creator?
 
The God Pill

The God Pill

Well-known member
JTK said:
i struggle to even understand the questions asked let alone answer them.
but i do like the idea that Adam and Eve were clothed with body generated light , it seems to resonate with scripture with regard to God and angels and the Kingdom of light.
the use of Light is a key factor in the work of God. it seems feasible to me that the first humans glowed in light as their clothing

However its difficult to take a peak over the dark high wall of original sin and see into the days when God declared everything he had made to be "Very Good". even with the benefit of the God Given time machine called the book of Genesis.
i know what i am about say does not entirely harmonise with scripture, its pure speculation, but it seems to me that Adam and Eve must have had zero sexual attraction until after the fall
of Course God said they would become one flesh and he instructed them to multiply and fill the earth and subdue it Gen1;28
But either there was very little time between that command and the fall, or Adam and Eve were as innocent children with no sexual desire in their mental makeup at that time.
surely if they had had sexual desire within their minds from the day they were created a child would have been on its way before Satan had seized the opportunity to cause the fall?
so i lean toward the innocence of our first parents preventing sexual intercourse until that innocence was going to be adjusted.By Jehovah
As we know Satan then steps in and interfears with Gods plan of education by tempting Eve to eat from the forbidden fruit and we all know the outcome.
however we know that God always has a purpose in his works and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil must have been installed in the garden for a reason. for a future purpose, and i think that purpose is key to understanding why Adam and Eve with newly opened eyes after eating the fruit were ashamed.
my question is
if Satan had not tempted Eve and God had eventually allowed Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge would he still have felt ashamed when he realised he was naked.
john
Click to expand...
Going by jubilees if memory is correct Adam was seven years old at the fall. I have a longer response to the past few posts I'll write some point before bed tonight but remember people procreated at a glacial pace back then. Most couples recorded preflood had there firstborn some point in the range of 100-300 years old. Noah was 500 before he was a father.
 
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