Announcement - Special message from GB - prepare for civil unrest

Sunshower

Well-known member
"include personal protective equipment"

Christ also promoted having "personal protective equipment". And what was that equipment he ordered his followers to have? A sword. The best form of personal protection available at the time.



This shows that there is a difference between killing the innocent, and killing the wicked ones who are out to do you harm.

This is just a small sample of the scriptural proof that arming oneself for protection does not go against Bible principles. Much more can be found here: Firearms

:^)
Dane
First of all welcome Dane.

My husband will be happy with your list. He loves swords and knives for their craftsmanship. Plus we have some bush knives 😉
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
"include personal protective equipment"

Christ also promoted having "personal protective equipment". And what was that equipment he ordered his followers to have? A sword. The best form of personal protection available at the time.

(Luke 22:36) let the one who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.

Why did Jesus give that command?

(John 17:12) When I was with them, I used to watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me; and I have protected them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But now" he was no longer going to be there to protect them, so they needed to be able to protect themselves. (Lu 22:36)

(Mark 14:48) But in response Jesus said to them: “Did you come out to arrest me with swords and clubs as against a robber?

Jesus did not condemn the mob for having swords and clubs, but for intending to use them inappropriately against an innocent person. And how are swords and clubs appropriately used? Jesus tells us: "against a robber."

Was Jesus serious about us having the means to protect ourselves? Yes. Look at what he said:

(Luke 22:36)
let the one who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.

With Jesus' departure it was so crucial for everyone to have a sword that those who did not have one were even to sell their outer garment if they had to and buy one. The outer garment of a man on the road was so important that it could mean his death without it on a cold night. It was also used as his bedding, and provided padding and insulation against the cold ground when he slept outside. The Mosaic law even acknowledged its importance:

(Exodus 22:26, 27)
“If you seize the garment of your fellow man as security for a loan, you are to return it to him by sunset. 27 For it is his only covering, his clothing to cover his body; in what will he lie down to sleep? When he cries out to me, I will certainly hear, for I am compassionate. (De 24:17)

Does that mean that our king has commanded us to buy protection for ourselves, even if we have to sell our proverbial "outer garment" to do so? The answer seems clear to me: Yes.

Do you ask: But doesn't using a gun to protect ourselves go against Bible principles?

Nowhere does the Bible condemn protecting oneself and ones loved ones. In fact, it requires it.

(Deuteronomy 22:8) “If you build a new house you must also make a parapet for your roof so that you may not bring bloodguilt on your house because of someone falling from it."

That verse refers to bloodguilt resulting from a failure to provide protection.

(1 Timothy 5:8) Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.

Safety, security, and protection are part of what the head of the house provides "for those who are his own." Otherwise he would be "worse than a person without faith."

If you choose NOT to provide protection for your household, and something happens to any of them, that is when you become bloodguilty, because you intentionally chose not to provide protection even though you are required to do so. (De 22:8; Lu 22:36) If we shirk this God-given duty we have "disowned the faith and [are] worse than a person without faith." (1 Tim 5:8) We will have earned that bloodguilt and may lose our place in paradise.

The GB often quote this scripture to back up their opinion on this topic:

(Ecclesiastes 9:18)
Wisdom is better than weapons of war

But that is only a partial quote. The whole verse says this:

(Ecclesiastes 9:18)
Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but just one sinner can destroy much good.

Note the use of the word "better". The original Hebrew word "towbah" is translated in most other locations as "good". Here the scripture could literally be translated: "Wisdom is (more good) than weapons of war", showing that both options are considered to be good since both can be used for the cause of good. One is just better, or more good.

The first half of that scripture is similar to this modern saying: "The pen is mightier than the sword." In both instances smarter is better, but regardless of how smart or wise you are, if you are being attacked by someone with a weapon, written words will not save you, and trying to talk your way out of the situation is useless if the attacker is intent on harming you. As the counter argument in the second half of that verse points out: "just one sinner can destroy much good." If we added a counter argument to the modern saying like that verse has it could go something like this:

The pen is mightier than the sword, but a well written letter won't protect you if you are being attacked.

So Ecclesiastes 9:18 is in reality a recommendation not to solely rely on wisdom, but to also keep yourself armed just in case. You should always be prepared for a non-peaceable encounter. (Ro 12:18)

Do you say: But what about Mt 26:52?

(Matthew 26:52) all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword.

Jesus does not lie to his followers. However, viewed in the manner of self-protection, as the GB applies this scripture, "All those who take up the sword will perish by the sword" is a false statement. All people who have a firearm (sword) for self-protection are not killed with firearms. (Even soldiers who use weapons in an offensive manner in war are not "all" killed.) On the contrary, statistics show that a huge number of crimes such as rapes and murders are prevented with firearms. The vast majority of those who have protected themselves and their families with firearms have lived long lives not ended with being shot, that is to say, they did not perish by the sword. And many who did not have a firearm for protection wound up dead as a result. So since Jesus was not lying he must not have meant that having a sword (firearm) for protection would get you killed because "all those who take up the sword [for self protection do NOT] perish by the sword."

Here is another scripture often quoted by the GB to promote their view.

(Micah 4:3) They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

That is talking about after Armageddon, when the nations will finally be at peace. And what will those who live through Armageddon do? They will take "their swords" that they have and make plowshares out of them. It doesn't say that they will pick up the swords of those who died at Armageddon. No, but they will make their own swords into plowshares and their own spears into pruning shears.

Here is a quote from Jesus on the topic:

(Luke 11:21)
When a strong, well-armed man guards his palace, his belongings remain secure.

No negativity is referred to in being "well-armed". On the contrary, he will be rewarded with his belongings remaining secure. A positive outcome.

(Luke 11:22) But when someone stronger than he is comes against him and conquers him, that man takes away all his weapons in which he was trusting, and he divides up the things he took from him.

That describes a thief who attacks, so the victim would be justified in using violence to protect himself. Weapons in those days required strength to wield them. In this case the thief was stronger than his victim so he prevailed. Fortunately the weapons of today put everyone on equal footing, enabling even those who are not strong to defend themselves, which is why a firearm is referred to as "the great equalizer."

(Exodus 22:2, 3a) “If a thief is found in the act of breaking in and he gets struck and dies, there is no bloodguilt for him. 3 But if it happens after sunrise, there is bloodguilt for him.

This says a "thief", not a murderer or an attacker. Why? Because you are never bloodguilty if while protecting yourself or your loved ones you strike and kill an attacker. But that does not apply to just a thief. At night they could not tell the purpose of the intruder. During the day, however, they could see that a thief, who is just there to take something and run, is not a danger to them or their household. Killing him would have been murder. This, however, does not rule out killing an attacker during the day who's intent is to harm or kill you or your loved ones.

(Exodus 23:7) “Have nothing to do with a false accusation, and do not kill the innocent and the righteous, for I will not declare the wicked one righteous.

This shows that there is a difference between killing the innocent, and killing the wicked ones who are out to do you harm.

This is just a small sample of the scriptural proof that arming oneself for protection does not go against Bible principles. Much more can be found here: Firearms

:^)
Dane
I haven't finished reading your article but if not mentioned in it I'd suggest checking out the second half of Zechariah
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
I haven't finished reading your article but if not mentioned in it I'd suggest checking out the second half of Zechariah
Ah TGP! I have to tell you that I am not like you. I do not have the attention span as you do to accomplish what might be to you a Nothing Burger to read 7 chapters just to "check out the second half of Zechariah". I still have Today's May 20 Daily Text articles regarding The Evil Slave to plow through, plus I am a very slow reader. Is there any way you can share your thoughts on the back half of Zechariah that prompted you to suggest we read it? I began in Chapter 8 and it sounds great with Jehovah caring for his people but I just do not have the steam to be this re-directed this afternoon. Thank you TGP in advance if you don't mind. Your lazy brother, Medi-tator.
 
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Patricia

Well-known member
Well, sorry to burst your bubble but if you look around you and follow the alternative news, that collapse is imminent.
This financial system wasn’t build to last and it’s on its last legs. Plus, they need to push the New World Order.
Moms can’t feed their babies in the US due to formula shortages created by the government. No potatoes in the US either, they shipped them to Mexico. Stores are running empty and inflation keeps on rising. What do you think will happen when the cubs are hungry and momma bear can’t feed them?
Remember the BLM riots? Wait till the Roe v. Wade riots begin. It’s just a perfect storm, so many things are happening all at the same time. The above mentioned don’t even scratch the surface.
Agreed! Wait till the peons can't or won't go to work because of the gas prices. My husband and I were talking about all of this being the perfect storm. Washington may just burn. 🧑‍🚒🧑‍🚒🧑‍🚒
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Ah TGP! I have to tell you that I am not like you. I do not have the attention span as you do to accomplish what might be to you a Nothing Burger to read 7 chapters just to "check out the second half of Zechariah". I still have Today's May 20 Daily Text articles regarding The Evil Slave to plow through, plus I am a very slow reader. Is there any way you can share your thoughts on the back half of Zechariah that prompted you to suggest we read it. I began in Chapter 8 and it sounds great with Jehovah caring for his people but I just do not have the steam to be this re-directed this afternoon. Thank you TGP in advance if you don't mind. Your lazy brother, Medi-tator.
It's okay It's just that I read slowly and reread those chapters six months ago and there was one or two that seemed to suggest a few skirmishes preceding Micah 4:3 mainly Chapter 12 as it seemed to differentiate the house of Judah and David suggesting two classes. And that Jehovah would grant some initial victories (Zechariah 12:7) to the former. It's entirely possible I'm wrong on it. That and the zadokites end times war scroll had very organized predictions and plans of campaigns involving both/simultaneous human and spirits on both sides though it probably has issues as a Text given they didn't anticipate the inclusion of gentiles from Christianity and the time span of the conflicts they anticipated is ridiculously long.
 
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יהוה_saves

Well-known member
@Sunshower

Remember the BLM riots? Wait till the Roe v. Wade riots begin. It’s just a perfect storm, so many things are happening all at the same time. The above mentioned don’t even scratch the surface.

this is exactly the reaction they're begging for. The Hegelian Dialectic: thesis, synthesis, antithesis: is problem—-->reaction——>pre-determined solution.

The govt is comprised of 33°Freemason GHOULS and their allegiance is to their god Satan.
 
D

Dane500

Guest
Sorry about the bad link.
You can go to the server and download the file here:

The file name is:
2017-07 QFR (firearms) - with scriptures and comments (redacted)

It begins with a point by point refutation of the Questions From Readers on the topic.

Wow. That is the best explanation I ever read on this subject. I definitely learned something new by reading this. Still, for me, prayer first and then wasp spray!
Here in Florida, if someone breaks into your home to do you harm and you use wasp spray, or bear spray on them, they can sue you and they will probably win. But that is not the case with lead spray. It is much more effective too. :^)

Also: Prayer is nice, but although the GB try and make you think that Jehovah protects us physically with articles and Daily Texts like the one for 05-25-22, they also have repeatedly told us that Jehovah only protects us spiritually. (There are many examples of that in the firearms article) If you look at the news articles on JW.org you will read of many deaths of Jehovah's Witnesses around the world. And those are just the ones that are news worthy.


Aloha Dane500! The link named "Firearms" appears to be inactive.

I gave your comments a "WOW" because this is some really well thought out material! I am going to send this to the brother I know who owns a pistol so he can make up his own mind regarding any inward struggle he might be going through regarding this subject. Thanks be to @BillyRay for getting this dialogue going and thank you immensely @Dane500 for weighing in so tremendously. I am going to pray about this matter specifically and see how it turns out in my spiritual awareness arena. Really glad you wrote all this for our collective benefit and welcome to this forum!!
Thank you Medi-tator. Like i said at the end, that is only a sample. I recomend reading the rest. :^)


First of all welcome Dane.

My husband will be happy with your list. He loves swords and knives for their craftsmanship. Plus we have some bush knives 😉
Thank you Sunshower. Yes, they can be works of art, but they don't cut it as protection against a bad guy with a gun. :^)


I haven't finished reading your article but if not mentioned in it I'd suggest checking out the second half of Zechariah
How does "ariah" help? But seriously, i am open to ANY Bible based constructive criticism. But please be specific.


:^)
Dane
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
@Sunshower

Remember the BLM riots? Wait till the Roe v. Wade riots begin. It’s just a perfect storm, so many things are happening all at the same time. The above mentioned don’t even scratch the surface.

this is exactly the reaction they're begging for. The Hegelian Dialectic: thesis, synthesis, antithesis: is problem—-->reaction——>pre-determined solution.

The govt is comprised of 33°Freemason GHOULS and their allegiance is to their god Satan.
Exactly. Biden spoke of the MAGA crowd being the most extreme in US history. Now with the new pandemic, monkeypox, the contaminated are homosexual and bisexual men. I feel Westboro Baptist riots coming up 🤦‍♀️
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Also: Prayer is nice, but although the GB try and make you think that Jehovah protects us physically with articles and Daily Texts like the one for 05-25-22, they also have repeatedly told us that Jehovah only protects us spiritually. (There are many examples of that in the firearms article) …
Sorry Dane, but I think prayer is a lot more than “nice.” And the most important issue is staying loyal to Jehovah not my personal safety. After thinking more about your post, I will be commenting again when I have the time to put my thoughts together.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
@Dane500 It's not very Christian to be dismissive towards prayer. I pray for Jehovah's protection every day and receive it quite often though seldom take it for granted ill receive it or any other blessing I'm not entitled. There's a difference between someone feeling comfortable with the use of there arm of flesh and putting there sole trust in it. Honestly this near ruling out of Jehovah's aid in the post isn't that far from David registering the people.

You had a good article I read your file but if you want acceptance or moral license from peers on a place like this saying things that suggest faithlessness is not an advisable approach. I might be more lenient with myself than many on defense but I respect people's individual consciences and advise people to listen to them.
 
D

Dane500

Guest
Perhaps i should have said, "prayer is good." (Mt 19:17)
My point was that, as the GB has pointed out many times, Jehovah only protects us spiritually, not physically.
As an example, here is a news release from a couple of years ago on jw,org:

"On the morning of October 31, 2014, a bus transporting 57 Jehovah’s Witnesses, who had volunteered to provide Bible education in Las Flores Lempira, crashed en route from San Carlos Choloma. The accident resulted in the death of the commercial bus driver and thirteen Witness passengers, which included two fourteen-year-old girls and an eight-year-old girl."

I have no doubt those wonderful brothers and sisters who were giving their time and effort to travel across country to witness to others prayed ahead of time for a safe trip and were praying fervently as the bus was crashing. If Jehovah were to protect anyone physically, they would definitely have qualified for that protection. There are many other such examples, including those who have been harmed or killed by the so-called CORONA "vaccine".


@Driven - If i implied that taking action to ensure your own personal safety somehow means that you are being disloyal to Jehovah, that was not my intent. I do not believe that at all.


@The God Pill - It was not my intent to be dismissive of prayer. I was not trying to put down praying. Please don't take offense. I was trying to say that praying when you are being attacked instead of protecting yourself is like driving around in your car without your seat belt on because you plan to pray if you are about to get into an accident. Yes, praying is nice good, but if you want added protection while driving you should wear your seat belt.

I know that if i were attacked, i would definitely pray. I would pray for my aim to be true and my attackers aim to be bad.

(Hebrews 13:6) “Jehovah is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”

A "helper" assists you in what you are doing. If you are not protecting yourself, how can Jehovah help you do it?


@Sunshower - There are always other options. Check out this video:


:^)
Dave
 

Soul Sage

Well-known member
In regards to firearms for protection it can be a double edged sword. There's a balance like in all things. I seen accidental misfires and then there is the psychological threat level when someone pulls out a gun. Rational thinking goes out the window and fear insues. But I do think guns are important in dire situations though I personally prefer less lethal take down methods.
 

BillyRay

Well-known member
I live in Europe. Guns are prohibited and not really common here. Criminals have them though 😏
That’s the entire premise here in the states…. Any law that requires the “turning in” of firearms by citizens, will only affect the law abiding. Are the criminals going to turn in their guns? No! They’re criminals! They don’t obey the law as it is. This leaves the populous unarmed, while keeping the criminals armed. Wonder how that will turn out?

Of course, there will be the “we will not comply” group of Americans who will refuse to obey what they believe to be an unlawful requirement.

I saw these memes once - They do make one think.

1653145302414.jpeg

1653144482719.jpeg
 

BillyRay

Well-known member
In regards to firearms for protection it can be a double edged sword. There's a balance like in all things. I seen accidental misfires and then there is the psychological threat level when someone pulls out a gun. Rational thinking goes out the window and fear insues. But I do think guns are important in dire situations though I personally prefer less lethal take down methods.
Not sure where you live. Hunting is in our culture here. About 60% of the brothers in our old hall (before the sale) hunted. (I don’t know all the Bros in our new KH yet, as we combined just before Covid) Most of the brothers that came from our old hall are hunters. There were more than a dozen of us who hunted the same brothers land for over 30 years.

We are all trained in the safe handling of firearms. In 30+ years, I never saw or ever heard of one accidental “misfire” - never one injury - caused by a firearm or not. We all trained at a local gun club every single year. We always follow these rules: 1. Treat every firearm as if it’s loaded. 2. Always point your firearm in a safe direction. 3. Know your target, and what’s beyond.

Not once have I ever felt nervous being around the brothers while we’re all carrying rifles.
 
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