Jesus Name - Proof of the GB's Deceptive Teaching of the Faithful Slave

Status
Not open for further replies.
I got the impression that there was a lot lacking in his reasoning. I was amazed when I first read his work. It alerted me to the fact that watchtower was not what I had been told it was, or believed it was. At that time in my life it was a huge weight off my shoulders to know that I was not alone and that there were others. As my knowledge expanded and I was searching through the “ex-JW” sites that sense of relief started to fade because it led nowhere. Nowhere at all and I found myself staring into a deep black pit. The realisation that all these people had their eyes opened yet did nothing and ceased to search for the truth appalled me. There had to be a God. Creation itself evidenced that. But they just gave up! Then I found a place that was still looking. “Seek Jehovah whilst He still may be found.” It amazed me to find the truth of that scripture and happily it does not amaze me any more, because it should not be amazing. It is a fact.
I read his book twice. He did point out some of the hypocrisies that most of the brothers could not reason on properly. One example was brothers scamming the government in Mexico to get a military service card whereas in one African nation (Malawi?) they weren't allowed to buy the political party card. I am aware of many of the video makers and web pages that exist or have since passed on.
I won't comment on their heart condition nor truthfulness but I dare say that most everyone on here, likely came here because they haven't given up yet.
 
I think that Joe had a real shock to the system with the covid and vax. This makes people do research, and unfortunately it can drag up more contentious issues. It takes a lot of processing , patience and understanding is required.
 
I agree. My first reaction was true bitterness and some it is still there but I think it’s subsiding.
Yes , me too. I think Joe is a good man, and has been a loyal elder. I can also totally understand Roberts frustration .
 
Yes , me too. I think Joe is a good man, and has been a loyal elder. I can also totally understand Roberts frustration .
Yea I liked joe too, I thought his comments were interesting, but I also understand Robert's position.
 
Yea I liked joe too, I thought his comments were interesting, but I also understand Robert's position.
If people were honest I would not have to treat them so harshly. But when posters like Joe Mac and Gitane pretend to be Bible researchers who just happened to come up with the same spiel as Ray Franz, and they obfuscate and deny the source of their "enlightenment," that's when I give them the boot. I cannot tolerate con men
 
Back when Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson were in the news exposing the Watchtower's pedophile problem Bowen got in contact with Ray Franz, who reportedly told Bowen that the WT did not have a pedophile problem. I actually talked with Bill on the phone once. So, here was a guy who was on the Governing Body in the 1970s when they formulated their child abuse policy. When he left the WT and wrote his books he had the platform and the audience to really expose an evil that has caused lasting harm to thousands of victims. He didn't. That should tell you all you need to know about Franz.
Didn’t Ray leave in 1980? Isn’t it conceivable that the evidence there was a problem might not have been readily apparent to him? Especially if he wasn’t on the service committee?
 
If people were honest I would not have to treat them so harshly. But when posters like Joe Mac and Gitane pretend to be Bible researchers who just happened to come up with the same spiel as Ray Franz, and they obfuscate and deny the source of their "enlightenment," that's when I give them the boot. I cannot tolerate con men
You know their history better than I do. I just read a few of his posts on the origin of jws I thought was interesting. But I'm sure you see the bigger picture.
 
"The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for what reason did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous."

"And you have entirely forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” You need to endure as part of your discipline. God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? But if you have not all shared in receiving this discipline, you are really illegitimate children, and not sons."

"On a set day, Herod clothed himself with royal raiment and sat down on the judgment seat and began giving them a public address. Then the people who were assembled began shouting: “A god’s voice, and not a man’s!” Instantly the angel of Jehovah struck him, because he did not give the glory to God, and he was eaten up with worms and died. But the word of Jehovah went on growing and spreading."

It is about time for judgment to start with the House of God.

When Jesus takes the throne, he will begin cleaning Jehovah's witnesses, both those "inside" and "outside" the organization.

The scribes and Pharisees prided themselves on their knowledge of God. But in truth, they were very, very far away from God.

Robert King, you are right on many things and not right on others, but the most important thing for a witness of Jehovah is Love. God is Love.

I do not agree with everything Joe believes, but Joe is not a liar or a conman - he was sharing his opinion. Your removing him for the conversation smacks of the overlords in the congregations who disfellowship members who tell the truth. Joe was telling the truth about how he felt.

Ray Franz has different gifts than Bill Bowan. Bill is a real shepherd, but so was Ray. They had different gifts. Ray also was not correct on everything, but he did help victims of abuse by shedding light on the way the governing body operates. I found his personal apology in the book for what the governing body did wrong to be extremely healing.

It seems, Robert, that you have become what you hated about the organization. You have built up a following for yourself, and when the sheep bow down to you, you do not stop them. It's disgusting.

Rather than respond positively to other anointed ones who share spiritual truths, you respond competitively and with a lack of hospitality. You do not shepherd the sheep - you verbally beat them if they don't bow down to you. You are not what claim to be. You are what you accused those others to be: a con man, an obfuscater, and dishonest.

Jehovah is sending Jesus to clean Jehovah's witnesses. You claim to be one of Jehovah's witnesses. You would be wise to repent before Jesus gets here.

Take note, all you people! Jehovah always sends a warning first.

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols."

Praise Jehovah.
 
Yet not one person on here who is claiming Jehovah doesn't have a earthly organization can honestly say the WT DID NOT teach VITAL TRUTHS. False religion and teachings were the only things that existed after the apostles died off and Constantine took over all form of worship even withholding doctrine. If not for the ressurection of the Truth every single person here would still be living in complete darkness nor knowing what doctrine to believe...the truth was embraced as such in the beginning but as Jesus said the love of the greater number will grow cold...and because the WT has ruled with absolute tyranny and abuse and a Satanic operation exists within people are turning aside from the love of the truth they once had using false reasoning and breaking off into their own circles reaching unbiblical conclusions. JEHOVAH has permitted THIS SATANIC OPERATION... REMEMBER JEHOVAH ALLOWS IT TO TEST EVERYONE and so so many are blinded to this very very simple fact..it is printed in HIS WORD...Jehovah tests all his creations He had from the beginning...unfortunately due to Satan's accusations that Jehovah is a liar that we will always blame Him for everything, we will save ourselves instead remaining loyal to Jehovah, He allows us to be tested to prove Satan the liar he us but sadly many prove Satan right. .and it is truly heartbreaking as I love Jehovah with every ounce of my being and to see Satan deceive and devour so many and turn them away back to false teachings, opinions and reasoning showing a complete lack of true faith and trust not seeking Jehovah God to open their eyes to really truly see what is going on it is truly heartbreaking!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for what reason did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous."

"And you have entirely forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” You need to endure as part of your discipline. God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? But if you have not all shared in receiving this discipline, you are really illegitimate children, and not sons."

"On a set day, Herod clothed himself with royal raiment and sat down on the judgment seat and began giving them a public address. Then the people who were assembled began shouting: “A god’s voice, and not a man’s!” Instantly the angel of Jehovah struck him, because he did not give the glory to God, and he was eaten up with worms and died. But the word of Jehovah went on growing and spreading."

It is about time for judgment to start with the House of God.

When Jesus takes the throne, he will begin cleaning Jehovah's witnesses, both those "inside" and "outside" the organization.

The scribes and Pharisees prided themselves on their knowledge of God. But in truth, they were very, very far away from God.

Robert King, you are right on many things and not right on others, but the most important thing for a witness of Jehovah is Love. God is Love.

I do not agree with everything Joe believes, but Joe is not a liar or a conman - he was sharing his opinion. Your removing him for the conversation smacks of the overlords in the congregations who disfellowship members who tell the truth. Joe was telling the truth about how he felt.

Ray Franz has different gifts than Bill Bowan. Bill is a real shepherd, but so was Ray. They had different gifts. Ray also was not correct on everything, but he did help victims of abuse by shedding light on the way the governing body operates. I found his personal apology in the book for what the governing body did wrong to be extremely healing.

It seems, Robert, that you have become what you hated about the organization. You have built up a following for yourself, and when the sheep bow down to you, you do not stop them. It's disgusting.

Rather than respond positively to other anointed ones who share spiritual truths, you respond competitively and with a lack of hospitality. You do not shepherd the sheep - you verbally beat them if they don't bow down to you. You are not what claim to be. You are what you accused those others to be: a con man, an obfuscater, and dishonest.

Jehovah is sending Jesus to clean Jehovah's witnesses. You claim to be one of Jehovah's witnesses. You would be wise to repent before Jesus gets here.

Take note, all you people! Jehovah always sends a warning first.

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols."

Praise Jehovah.
There is an easy solution. Build your own forum and teach the bible. Please don’t join another person’s forum and then belittle him even though I see you feel you are witnessing idolatry for Robert King. I think you’ll get push back on that belief from most of the forum members.
 
"The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for what reason did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous."

"And you have entirely forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” You need to endure as part of your discipline. God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? But if you have not all shared in receiving this discipline, you are really illegitimate children, and not sons."

"On a set day, Herod clothed himself with royal raiment and sat down on the judgment seat and began giving them a public address. Then the people who were assembled began shouting: “A god’s voice, and not a man’s!” Instantly the angel of Jehovah struck him, because he did not give the glory to God, and he was eaten up with worms and died. But the word of Jehovah went on growing and spreading."

It is about time for judgment to start with the House of God.

When Jesus takes the throne, he will begin cleaning Jehovah's witnesses, both those "inside" and "outside" the organization.

The scribes and Pharisees prided themselves on their knowledge of God. But in truth, they were very, very far away from God.

Robert King, you are right on many things and not right on others, but the most important thing for a witness of Jehovah is Love. God is Love.

I do not agree with everything Joe believes, but Joe is not a liar or a conman - he was sharing his opinion. Your removing him for the conversation smacks of the overlords in the congregations who disfellowship members who tell the truth. Joe was telling the truth about how he felt.

Ray Franz has different gifts than Bill Bowan. Bill is a real shepherd, but so was Ray. They had different gifts. Ray also was not correct on everything, but he did help victims of abuse by shedding light on the way the governing body operates. I found his personal apology in the book for what the governing body did wrong to be extremely healing.

It seems, Robert, that you have become what you hated about the organization. You have built up a following for yourself, and when the sheep bow down to you, you do not stop them. It's disgusting.

Rather than respond positively to other anointed ones who share spiritual truths, you respond competitively and with a lack of hospitality. You do not shepherd the sheep - you verbally beat them if they don't bow down to you. You are not what claim to be. You are what you accused those others to be: a con man, an obfuscater, and dishonest.

Jehovah is sending Jesus to clean Jehovah's witnesses. You claim to be one of Jehovah's witnesses. You would be wise to repent before Jesus gets here.

Take note, all you people! Jehovah always sends a warning first.

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols."

Praise Jehovah.
I am not going to allow any Ray Franz cultists on this site. Bye
 
Last edited:
If anybody else wants to step forward, I will be delighted to delete you right now.

Just for the record Robert, I do not idolize you in the least, but much like Aetna, I am sure glad I met ya!! (one has to be my age to get that one. It was a tv commercial about the insurance company Aetna)

And as always, thank you so much for all you do for us in your tireless and "bleary-eyed" efforts to keep us informed as to Jehovah's judgments!

You rock! Don't let the boss-terds get you down LOL (bastards with a Boston accent LOL)
 
If anybody else wants to step forward, I will be delighted to delete you right now.
Robert you sure put up with a lot. Totally uncalled for. Makes me wonder if we have some WT plants on here that are trying to discredit you. You must be over the target. Thank you for all your hard work. You didn't have to do this forum but we appreciate you for it.
 
It would be necessary to understand where ‘inspiration’ comes from. Inspiration is a mental response to a given understanding and it can lead to action in a creative way. The witnesses have been encouraged to believe that their analysis of the bible by the GB is a direct instruction from Jehovah. That is just not true. The bible notes that people are drawn out by their own desires. Analytical thinking is a product based on those desires and it is interpreted by our own brain into various forms of expression to explain in a language or gesture that which we are trying to accomplish. And to accomplish that accurately (not necessarily truthfully) depends on our motive. Simpleton or not does not come into it.

Modern parlance in ‘inspiration’ attaches what is already assumed by the listener to be the source of the subject matter. In this case not just the bible, but how the ‘inspired’ speaker wishes you to understand him. This is how the GB deceive the brethren, who are already primed to assume inspiration to translate meaning is from Jehovah. (Ergo New light). Jehovah is not inspired per se. He dictates fact and it is debatable in any context, what the source of inspiration may be as it is limited in so many ways, not least of which would be the means of expression by the one presumed to be inspired. For example, Wordsworth‘s poem “I wandered lonely as a cloud…” was inspired by a field of daffodils. One can argue what led him to pen such a poem - was it the flower, its scent, its maker, its sudden appearance as he turned a corner on his walk? Thus Jehovah does not have to communicate verbally to inspire. His creation is the inspiration for us all and critically, it is that which is in our hearts that translates whatsoever that inspiration speaks to us through the myriad complexities and desires of our soul.

So it is then, that we are all inspired by what we understand and what we understand is translated into action, value and belief from the proclivities of our heart motivation. If that is from the bible, then yes, that can inspire developmental inspiration in conjecture and through which, when grown open to discussion with others, can collate collective thinking into a reasonable consensus of agreement. Given that fact, it is certain that watchtower and indeed all of us are inspired to express by whatever means, what we understand. We have also been given a multiplicity of mental tools to apply, caution and instruct ourselves as to the value of what is said. And as the bible rightly points out, that valuation is based upon our heart motivation. We know, also from the bible, that Jehovah draws us according to that heart motivation and if there is ever a description of inspiration, then it is to our heart motivation that we look for it’s value. The greater our understanding then, the greater our application and expression becomes in describing truths content. This then, is the answer, that we are “drawn out by our own desires” or put another way, drawn out by out motivation through which our inspiration leads us. So yes, the GB certainly is inspired and so are we, but by what? Therein lies your true definition of inspiration.
BARN...is there any way you could sum up this point? Yes or no works for me
 
Back when Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson were in the news exposing the Watchtower's pedophile problem Bowen got in contact with Ray Franz, who reportedly told Bowen that the WT did not have a pedophile problem. I actually talked with Bill on the phone once. So, here was a guy who was on the Governing Body in the 1970s when they formulated their child abuse policy. When he left the WT and wrote his books he had the platform and the audience to really expose an evil that has caused lasting harm to thousands of victims. He didn't. That should tell you all you need to know about Franz.
Thanks for posting this. Some on the forum had told me you were not a Ray Franz fan and I figured you had your reasons, and was hoping to find out what it was, but didn't want to come right out and ask. I don't know much about him myself, I've only been reading and researching for a little over a year.

I didn't read the whole exchange and I don't think I'm going to. I have had some communications with Joe via email, and I think this comment sums him up pretty on the money...
I think that Joe had a real shock to the system with the covid and vax. This makes people do research, and unfortunately it can drag up more contentious issues. It takes a lot of processing , patience and understanding is required.
I agree... however, you have to be respectful even of those you do not agree when they are the host. I understand the danger of not "trading one idol for another", it's the "once bitten twice shy" analogy, and I get the caution, but I don't think that's what is happening here.

I think the things Robert writes not only make sense, they have that "ring of truth" to them, and I feel the same brotherhood from the vast majority on this forum.
You have built up a following for yourself, and when the sheep bow down to you, you do not stop them. It's disgusting.
All I have to say to this is ...ROFLOL...you've been registered on this page a little more than 24 hours and you pass judgement...quite the lurker you must be. How long have you been waiting in the wings to pronounce this judgement? You must have quite the laundry list of evidence then to make this claim. Odd you didn't provide a SHRED of evidence to your claim however. Just him removing people from his "house" as it were since this is his website, Not at all like removing a person's ability to speak to their own family members. People are free to make friends with anyone they want on this forum, and continue that friendship outside of Robert's domain website.
 
Well I've never read Fanze's book. But I will say this. People need to realize communication is necessary, the Bible students were willing to challenge the religious authority of their day. So RK did that, so did others and so did I. If your not willing to work through weaknesses in your understanding or that of others or discuss them scriptually together using God's word, or you think you have all the answers and cannot be corrected by any one, than yes I have a prob with that. Robert is your book 100 percent Gods word? AND please don't reply by saying I'm delusional
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top