Is Not Sinning Enough?

[evw]

Where does love draw a line then?

by deceit and lies, why? Because Jehovah is also a God that can hate as tells us in Proverbs 6:16-19 - 'There are six things that Jehovah hates; Yes, seven things that he detests:17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,18 A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil,19 A false witness who lies with every breath, And anyone sowing contentions among brothers.'
And He is a 'God that cannot lie' - Titus 1:2 - ' and is based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie, promised long ago;

 

[steve]

Yes, It is very much part of the heart condition. In contemplating the issue, I was struck by the reasoning of those faced by Christ in the coming times - Mathew 7: “did we not cast out evil spirits in your name …and do many mighty things in your name….” 23 “….and I will say to them, ”I never knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness.”

Although the scripture can be applied in various situations, it points to a “form of godly devotion but proves false to its power“. Being “false to its power” surely indicates both an understanding of and application, not to mention a desire to be seen to express love and care for others, and yet, due to its lack of sincerity (for what ever reason - hypocritically meant or sincerely meant), it was not acceptable. Why is the scripture there if it does not point to a higher application that is beholding upon us to determine within ourselves. Thus our basis for motivation. It points to a personal extension in the understanding of love within the spectrum of the word. Jehovah describes himself as a “jealous” God and has wiped whole cities from the face of the earth. Today we are asked to accept all manner of deviance in the name of tolerance and the ”love of difference”. Where does love draw a line then?

Only Jehovah can read those hearts, we as humans can only guess at what is in another's heart.
That is why the separating of wheat from the weeds is necessary, to root out those whose hearts were never inclined towards Jehovah, to expose those who only have a form of Godly devotion. Indeed that is why he will say in that day, depart from me you workers of lawlessness.
Most witnesses understand this on a base level, imagining that their faith based on works, going out on the ministry is all that is required, and no depth of understanding is ever gained, that is speaking of my own experience when in a congregation. It is a shallow faith, one soon to be challenged. There is without doubt a veil covering the eyes of Jehovah's people and it will soon be lifted.
Love has no boundaries, it is up to each individual to cultivate love, and that love can be helped along, if we search for Jehovah as if looking for the most prized treasure, not a treasure that is here on earth, a heavenly treasure that our heavenly father rewards us with if we earnestly seek him, a love that when understood leads one not just away from doing wrong, a love than is inbuilt, inculcated within our every thought and action taken, the real works of faith, But, we must live by the words of truth, even if it means we lose everything, including our lives.
I chose to make a stand, and i have been relentlessly targeted by something demonic, Recently i have lost everything, stripped bare and i have been left a shell of a man, even my health has gone, because i will not compromise my love of God. And even now, after all my trials, i am still not sure my love is strong or my faith is enough, because who can know the heart, we can only hope in Jehovah and ask him to strengthen our faith, and also fill our heart with spirit to sustain our love for him, we cannot do it on our own.

 

[jay]

I’ll go back to my planet.
No you haven't put your foot in your mouth. I was raised as one of Jehovah's and can appreciate what you are saying. Talks at the Hall about all of these extra rules not in the Bible. We can sit in the meetings and listen to talks on love and feel great, "that's me, I'm applying this to myself" and yet me and a number of Elders were the most unloving at times to our wives. Yelling, swearing and generally miss treating them. Why, as a young man I was told to get my wife under subjection. Love is the answer. I didn't understand it and didn't use it. I did know not to be a drunk or smoke or drive to fast. To be more loving each day would greatly aid us in life. If we don't have love what do we have? In my case, wishing I could take back the pain that I caused for not being loving. Sometimes the hypocritical shoe fits and I wear it.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Only Jehovah can read those hearts, we as humans can only guess at what is in another's heart.
That is why the separating of wheat from the weeds is necessary, to root out those whose hearts were never inclined towards Jehovah, to expose those who only have a form of Godly devotion. Indeed that is why he will say in that day, depart from me you workers of lawlessness.
Most witnesses understand this on a base level, imagining that their faith based on works, going out on the ministry is all that is required, and no depth of understanding is ever gained, that is speaking of my own experience when in a congregation. It is a shallow faith, one soon to be challenged. There is without doubt a veil covering the eyes of Jehovah's people and it will soon be lifted.
Love has no boundaries, it is up to each individual to cultivate love, and that love can be helped along, if we search for Jehovah as if looking for the most prized treasure, not a treasure that is here on earth, a heavenly treasure that our heavenly father rewards us with if we earnestly seek him, a love that when understood leads one not just away from doing wrong, a love than is inbuilt, inculcated within our every thought and action taken, the real works of faith, But, we must live by the words of truth, even if it means we lose everything, including our lives.
I chose to make a stand, and i have been relentlessly targeted by something demonic, Recently i have lost everything, stripped bare and i have been left a shell of a man, even my health has gone, because i will not compromise my love of God. And even now, after all my trials, i am still not sure my love is strong or my faith is enough, because who can know the heart, we can only hope in Jehovah and ask him to strengthen our faith, and also fill our heart with spirit to sustain our love for him, we cannot do it on our own.

Exactly so. It is quality of love that gives insight into its boundaries as EVW points out - understanding why a stand against evil is fought with love, it being the key to all attributes. I guess as you say, it is the only weapon we have.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Mi experiencia estuvo definida por el tipo de personas que componían las congregaciones. En mi salón nos reuníamos 3 diferentes y todas estaban llenas de gente joven. Muchísimos adolescentes deseando impresionar a ancianos cuarentones que creían ser los más populares por ese espíritu típico de la juventud. Se recalcaba mucho el pecado también, como tú dices, sobretodo por la pronta edad en la que nos bautizaban. Decenas de jóvenes hormonados examinando a otros jóvenes para tener puntos era todo menos una demostración de amor. No se educaba el ojo para ver el potencial del otro sino la decadencia. Solo la gente mayor me trasmitían paz y amor, solo habia uno, ja! Se llamaba Ángel y sus palabras muchas veces me hacían preguntarme porque no más eran como el y quien había colocado a aquel hombre canoso de ojos azul cielo entre tantas hienas. El amor era idolátrico y la congregación terminó con la mayoría de los jóvenes fuera de ella y con aquellos ancianos abandonando la organización o siendo relevados porque claro, los hijos de uno crecen y luego quieres hacer favoritismos con los propios y eres puesto en evidencia.
Quién se atrevía siquiera a hablar de amor y compasión o del gozo, si el autodominio brillaba por sus ausencia. Autodominio, que don más poderoso y leal a Jehová. Si uno lo posee, nadie tiene dominio sobre ti, eres tú el que por gracia del espíritu santo dominas tu cuerpo, sabiendo que te inclinarás mayormente, pero que entrenado por Jehová, es posible enderezarlo. Porque nadie tiene que dominar tu vida más que El, esa dirección debe ser divina, nunca humana. Hay tanto de los fritos del espíritu que tenemos que exprimir...un foro no da para tanto. Faltan ojos, respiraciones, movimientos de manos al hablar. Intensidad querido B. El espíritu es muy intenso! Aquí hay palabras si, pero la presencia ofrece tanto!! Es una conversación para tenerla cara a cara.

Google has given up translating Ana - it won’t translate for me - in any language. Can you try a Vulcan mind-meld?

 

[KingdomLeast]

The scriptures tell us that if we have not love, we have nothing. Therefore one might assume that understanding the meaning of love has an attributable insight into our salvation, because it’s application forms the basis upon our judgement in all things and by dint of reasoning then, upon the judgement of Jehovah upon us. Neither is love a given in our personality. It has to be learnt. It’s values tested, its application must be both malleable and flexible, “because it bears all things, hopes all things and - never fails.”. It is therefore a positive asset and an understanding that has application in every aspect of our lives - a morality in application throughout all other events in our lives, and is a tangible, informing asset of our judgement In all things. It also, must have a motivator that would rather die, than break its own standard. It is not then, a simple act of “not doing bad” as watchtower might suggest like growing a beard, or not running off with another’s partner, but a value in and an understanding of inculcating a standard within ourselves that emulates our creator. Because presumably, that very asset formed the basis of our creation. What are your thoughts?

"The fourth or final quarter-mark of our race is Perfect Love--toward God, toward our brethren, toward all men-- and is the one we are all to seek earnestly to attain to, and that as quickly as possible. We are not to dally at the quarter marks, but to run on patiently, perseveringly, energetically. There is a sense in which we are to "love not the world, neither the things of the world"; but there is a sense in which we are to love and to "do good unto all men as we have opportunity, especially unto them who are of the household of faith"; (Gal. 6:10) - a love which includes even our enemies. This love does not annul or diminish our love for the Father and the principles of his character, and our love for the brethren, but it intensifies these; and in that intensification it enables us to include in the love of benevolence and sympathy all of the poor groaning creation, travailing in pain and waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. "Love your enemies, do good to them that persecute you and hate you," is the Master's command; and not until we have attained to this degree of love--love even for enemies--are we to think for a moment that we have reached the mark which the Lord has set for us as his followers. Not until we have reached this position are we copies of God's dear Son.

We must reach this climax of love before we can be counted worthy of a place in the New Creation, and we are not to expect that each one of the Lord's followers will reach this mark just at the moment of expiring in death. Quite the contrary. We are to expect to reach it as early as possible in our Christian experience, and then to remember the words of the Apostle, "Having done all--Stand!" (Eph. 6:13) We require testings in love after we have reached the mark; and our exercises while at the mark--striving to maintain in our lives that mark, or standard--will be very strengthening to our characters. In this, especially, our experiences will correspond to those of our Lord; for while he did not need to run to attain the mark, he did need to fight a good fight of faith at the mark--not to be turned from it, not to be overcome by the various besetments of the world and the Adversary. "I press down upon the mark," says the Apostle; and so must each of us hold fast that mark after we do attain it, and see to it that in all the testings which the Lord permits to come upon us we shall be accounted of him as overcomers--not in our own strength, but in the strength of our Redeemer's assistance." - <The New Creation, p. 190>

 

[Ana]

Google has given up translating Ana - it won’t translate for me - in any language. Can you try a Vulcan mind-meld?

Tú pide por esa boquita.

 

[Serenity]

"The fourth or final quarter-mark of our race is Perfect Love--toward God, toward our brethren, toward all men-- and is the one we are all to seek earnestly to attain to, and that as quickly as possible. We are not to dally at the quarter marks, but to run on patiently, perseveringly, energetically. There is a sense in which we are to "love not the world, neither the things of the world"; but there is a sense in which we are to love and to "do good unto all men as we have opportunity, especially unto them who are of the household of faith"; (Gal. 6:10) - a love which includes even our enemies. This love does not annul or diminish our love for the Father and the principles of his character, and our love for the brethren, but it intensifies these; and in that intensification it enables us to include in the love of benevolence and sympathy all of the poor groaning creation, travailing in pain and waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. "Love your enemies, do good to them that persecute you and hate you," is the Master's command; and not until we have attained to this degree of love--love even for enemies--are we to think for a moment that we have reached the mark which the Lord has set for us as his followers. Not until we have reached this position are we copies of God's dear Son.

We must reach this climax of love before we can be counted worthy of a place in the New Creation, and we are not to expect that each one of the Lord's followers will reach this mark just at the moment of expiring in death. Quite the contrary. We are to expect to reach it as early as possible in our Christian experience, and then to remember the words of the Apostle, "Having done all--Stand!" (Eph. 6:13) We require testings in love after we have reached the mark; and our exercises while at the mark--striving to maintain in our lives that mark, or standard--will be very strengthening to our characters. In this, especially, our experiences will correspond to those of our Lord; for while he did not need to run to attain the mark, he did need to fight a good fight of faith at the mark--not to be turned from it, not to be overcome by the various besetments of the world and the Adversary. "I press down upon the mark," says the Apostle; and so must each of us hold fast that mark after we do attain it, and see to it that in all the testings which the Lord permits to come upon us we shall be accounted of him as overcomers--not in our own strength, but in the strength of our Redeemer's assistance." - <The New Creation, p. 190>

The above is a quote from Charles Russell's writings in the Studies In The Scripture book #6, "The New Creation", so noted at the end of the post.

This list is also found in the same book and chapter:

"Some one has suggested that these fruits of the spirit of God might be defined as below, and we heartily agree:

(1) Joy--Love exultant.

(2) Peace--Love in repose.

(3) Long-suffering--Love enduring.

(4) Gentleness--Love in society.

(5) Goodness--Love in action.

(6) Faith--Love on the battlefield of life.

(7) Meekness--Love in resignation.

(8) Temperance (moderation)--Love in training."

 

[DR75 less 1]

If we make the cut then not sinning is enough.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

It's true, there is some instruction from the Watchtower with regards to developing the fruits of the spirit and the Christian personality, and JW-s are admonished to do so, but no where near the degree of the early Bible Students. Of couse, as the world gets worse and wickedness spreads and wicked persons infiltrate the organization, and permisive policies exist, that of course contributes to or allows the problems to occur and persist. Even some of those "raised in the truth", including servant's children, often have never addressed serious character defects, or learned to even show basic kindness and respect, that is often shown many people in the world. It seems that some stop with the knowledge of basic truth and never make profress to become full-grown spiritual persons. And you're right too, in that there are differences in congregations, as Jesus showed when addressing the various congregations in Revelation.

I've seen both sides of the coin though. There are some really fine brothers and sisters, but there is something wrong, something missing. The Watchtower's book, "The Commentary On The Letter Of James" was an excellent book that addressed the Christian personality development. For some reason, the Watchtower ditched that book 🗑 and it's considered forbidden reading for Witnesses now. It's no longer found on JW.org. I wonder why?

I know years ago I read the commentary on James and it pointed out a lot of how we should treat one another regardless of our status and not show favoritism. The true essence of cultivating the Christian personality was brought out very well.

It also brought out that being a friend of the world makes you an enemy of God. No doubt speaking of the governments of this world.

I can see why they probably ditched it. Even back then when I read it we were having problems in our congregation that James spoke out against. That’s why I was prompted to read it.

So many things were starting to change around that time…such as how different ones were treated, showing favoritism. In fact when I read the book it was in the 90’s but most of the content stuck with me.

It also talked about how orphans and widows should be treated. James help us to develop a Christian personality for sure not to mention enduring trials. All so very positive.

One more point I might add is that James was Jesus’s brother.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Tú pide por esa boquita.

Thanks for the note Ana, a very nice comment. I still cannot get translation to work. I must have offended google somehow.

 

[Ana]

Tú pide por esa boquita.
[/QUO

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Tú pide por esa boquita.

! ¡Intentré arreglarlo si puedo!

intentre arreglaro si puedo !!!

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

"The fourth or final quarter-mark of our race is Perfect Love--toward God, toward our brethren, toward all men-- and is the one we are all to seek earnestly to attain to, and that as quickly as possible. We are not to dally at the quarter marks, but to run on patiently, perseveringly, energetically. There is a sense in which we are to "love not the world, neither the things of the world"; but there is a sense in which we are to love and to "do good unto all men as we have opportunity, especially unto them who are of the household of faith"; (Gal. 6:10) - a love which includes even our enemies. This love does not annul or diminish our love for the Father and the principles of his character, and our love for the brethren, but it intensifies these; and in that intensification it enables us to include in the love of benevolence and sympathy all of the poor groaning creation, travailing in pain and waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. "Love your enemies, do good to them that persecute you and hate you," is the Master's command; and not until we have attained to this degree of love--love even for enemies--are we to think for a moment that we have reached the mark which the Lord has set for us as his followers. Not until we have reached this position are we copies of God's dear Son.

We must reach this climax of love before we can be counted worthy of a place in the New Creation, and we are not to expect that each one of the Lord's followers will reach this mark just at the moment of expiring in death. Quite the contrary. We are to expect to reach it as early as possible in our Christian experience, and then to remember the words of the Apostle, "Having done all--Stand!" (Eph. 6:13) We require testings in love after we have reached the mark; and our exercises while at the mark--striving to maintain in our lives that mark, or standard--will be very strengthening to our characters. In this, especially, our experiences will correspond to those of our Lord; for while he did not need to run to attain the mark, he did need to fight a good fight of faith at the mark--not to be turned from it, not to be overcome by the various besetments of the world and the Adversary. "I press down upon the mark," says the Apostle; and so must each of us hold fast that mark after we do attain it, and see to it that in all the testings which the Lord permits to come upon us we shall be accounted of him as overcomers--not in our own strength, but in the strength of our Redeemer's assistance." - <The New Creation, p. 190>

Yes. The scripture points out “the mark”. The attainment, The understanding thereof. Precisely the Point. The question is then, what is the understanding of the mark? The “mark“ is a qualification. Clearly, if the scripture is pointing to a level of attainment, then this requires wisdom and understanding to gain insight into the thread tgat governs the attributes of the spirit. Let’s face it, our present interpretation of “love” is not only confined, but very thin.

 

[CathiiD'Anthonii]

John 8m: 3-11.

The story of the adulterous woman has always caught my attention. Not for the obvious reason, but for the reason that Jesus simply said that he did not condemn her either. Verse 11. Of course, the ethics are clear and probably so obvious that Jesus could well have assumed, that being the case, that the woman would know what to do - even if it were just to mend her behaviour.

In my years in watchtower, there was to my recollection, very little movement away from “not doing” sin. Don’t smoke, do not get drunk, dress properly, obey traffic laws (yes, really); in fact, all the ”do nots” you could think of. What Jehovah condensed into Ten Commandments, the watchtower expanded in to every corner of one’s life. There was nothing about how to positively take upon one’s self the refinements of the Spirit - “perfection“ was to achieve innocence in not sinning it seemed, but nothing toward understanding the attributes of the Spirit. Being a neighbour, friend, marriage partner, socially acceptable person, demanded nothing but the abstinence of sin and in being “loving” through simply not being “unloving” - some might say just being innocuous.

The scriptures tell us that if we have not love, we have nothing. Therefore one might assume that understanding the meaning of love has an attributable insight into our salvation, because it’s application forms the basis upon our judgement in all things and by dint of reasoning then, upon the judgement of Jehovah upon us. Neither is love a given in our personality. It has to be learnt. It’s values tested, its application must be both malleable and flexible, “because it bears all things, hopes all things and - never fails.”. It is therefore a positive asset and an understanding that has application in every aspect of our lives - a morality in application throughout all other events in our lives, and is a tangible, informing asset of our judgement In all things. It also, must have a motivator that would rather die, than break its own standard. It is not then, a simple act of “not doing bad” as watchtower might suggest like growing a beard, or not running off with another’s partner, but a value in and an understanding of inculcating a standard within ourselves that emulates our creator. Because presumably, that very asset formed the basis of our creation. What are your thoughts?

I often wonder in this case of the adulterous woman where the other party was, it takes two to commit such things. This is where the WT seriously lacked sensibility. Others are greatly affected. If love was truly taught and Christianity was there, there would be fewer "sinners"..Jesus said to the eleven to love one another, He washed their feet to teach that..What I saw in the WT was class distinctions. Rich brothers only associating with the like.. Welfare ones on the other side of the Hall.
The congregation in Wyoming where I was for 5 years had an altogether different attitude and a lot of it based on survival with a harsh winters. They had a speaker from out of town scheduled on a Sunday. The night before was a bad winter storm and the Hall parking lot had a couple inches of Ice, so the brothers cancelled the Sunday talk for safety reasons which was perfectly reasonable, the brother from out of town was very angry about it, noted, wheres the love?

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I often wonder in this case of the adulterous woman where the other party was, it takes two to commit such things. This is where the WT seriously lacked sensibility. Others are greatly affected. If love was truly taught and Christianity was there, there would be fewer "sinners"..Jesus said to the eleven to love one another, He washed their feet to teach that..What I saw in the WT was class distinctions. Rich brothers only associating with the like.. Welfare ones on the other side of the Hall.
The congregation in Wyoming where I was for 5 years had an altogether different attitude and a lot of it based on survival with a harsh winters. They had a speaker from out of town scheduled on a Sunday. The night before was a bad winter storm and the Hall parking lot had a couple inches of Ice, so the brothers cancelled the Sunday talk for safety reasons which was perfectly reasonable, the brother from out of town was very angry about it, noted, wheres the love?

Love is a motivator as you point out. It has the capability to shape character, to mould personality and to change outlook. It is not simply reciprocal and like faith, it can create unity and self sufficiency in all things. Love is a proof of loyalty to a given standard. I find it difficult to determine why else Jesus would die for those that hate him.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

The above is a quote from Charles Russell's writings in the Studies In The Scripture book #6, "The New Creation", so noted at the end of the post.

This list is also found in the same book and chapter:

"Some one has suggested that these fruits of the spirit of God might be defined as below, and we heartily agree:

(1) Joy--Love exultant.

(2) Peace--Love in repose.

(3) Long-suffering--Love enduring.

(4) Gentleness--Love in society.

(5) Goodness--Love in action.

(6) Faith--Love on the battlefield of life.

(7) Meekness--Love in resignation.

(8) Temperance (moderation)--Love in training."

These are descriptions - valid of course, but descriptions nonetheless. The question is how they are applied in tandem with the attributes of the spirit. How does love inform justice for instance. How is the balance obtained. How do we reach the conclusion that Jesus did with the example given of adultery. Another example might be why did Cain not suffer death for murder? There are details or understanding then in the application of love - motives, outcomes, benefits of mercy in achieving greater outcomes from the act of mercy. Love is more that just giving flowers etc.

 

[Serenity]

These are descriptions - valid of course, but descriptions nonetheless. The question is how they are applied in tandem with the attributes of the spirit. How does love inform justice for instance. How is the balance obtained. How do we reach the conclusion that Jesus did with the example given of adultery. Another example might be why did Cain not suffer death for murder? There are details or understanding then in the application of love - motives, outcomes, benefits of mercy in achieving greater outcomes from the act of mercy. Love is more that just giving flowers etc.

We have the perfect example of love in Jehovah and Jesus Christ. Their love has been shown to mankind by a course of mercy, and unselfishness, and sacrifice, patience and long-suffering, for the benefit of ones who were, in actuality their enemies, due to inherited sin and being therefore, under the influence to Satan, God's enemy. This love and mercy was extended even before we came into existance and we were still in Adam's loins.

Jesus instructed his followers to love, not just those who love them, but even those who hate and persecute them. This requires God's holy spirit as it is not in the imperfect nature of mankind to love those who hate them. This is love based on principle. The principle is that God loved us even when we were alienated and enemies in order that we might realize the need to become reconciled to God, in order that we might be saved. It is God's purpose that as many as can be saved of the lost human race, be saved. God loved the world so much, even though alienated from him by inherited sinful nature, that He gave his Son to save it. John 17:3.

The Christian, likewise, seeks to save even his enemies, and enemies of God, that God might give them repentance in order that they may be saved. The Christian's fight is against his own fallen flesh, to overcome it's weaknesses, and to become like Christ, especially in his quality of love. Besides his own weaknesses, the Christian's fight is against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places, and the world under their control. It is God's will that men of all sorts be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Like Christ, the Christian is called to a life course of unselfish self-sacrifice on behalf of God and others.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

We have the perfect example of love in Jehovah and Jesus Christ. Their love has been shown to mankind by a course of mercy, and unselfishness, and sacrifice, patience and long-suffering, for the benefit of ones who were, in actuality their enemies, due to inherited sin and being therefore, under the influence to Satan, God's enemy. This love and mercy was extended even before we came into existance and we were still in Adam's loins.

Jesus instructed his followers to love, not just those who love them, but even those who hate and persecute them. This requires God's holy spirit as it is not in the imperfect nature of mankind to love those who hate them. This is love based on principle. The principle is that God loved us even when we were alienated and enemies in order that we might realize the need to become reconciled to God, in order that we might be saved. It is God's purpose that as many as can be saved of the lost human race, be saved. God loved the world so much, even though alienated from him by inherited sinful nature, that He gave his Son to save it. John 17:3.

The Christian, likewise, seeks to save even his enemies, and enemies of God, that God might give them repentance in order that they may be saved. The Christian's fight is against his own fallen flesh, to overcome it's weaknesses, and to become like Christ, especially in his quality of love. Besides his own weaknesses, the Christian's fight is against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places, and the world under their control. It is God's will that men of all sorts be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Like Christ, the Christian is called to a life course of unselfish self-sacrifice on behalf of God and others.

Yes, this is true, in terms of describing the outcomes of love. What I was simply trying to understand by asking the question was the “application” of love as the primary Connector to all the attributes of the spirit, rather than its outcomes. As you point out, it is difficult for us to conceive of the depths involved in this. Yes, we need to love all people, but as you rightly point out, that is somewhat beyond us to implicate in our lives. If as you suggest, we require holy spirit to attain that level of understanding, it suggests that there is something to learn. But the command is NOW to love our enemies, not that we require perfection or the spirit to do so, but that we do so of our own understanding. So what I’m simply seeking, is understanding on that facet of application that links ALL the attributes of the spirit to that of love, without which, we “have nothing”. In interests me to know. As you point out, we need insight to do that. I am simply seeking a common understanding of how we may increase that insight, just as we seek to increase our faith. We all know the outcomes.

Clearly if we apply faith in the same regard, we know that its principles are many-fold, and we work at these things daily - we “prepare”. I am simply trying to apply the same issues to “love”.

 

[Ana]

Yes, this is true, in terms of describing the outcomes of love. What I was simply trying to understand by asking the question was the “application” of love as the primary Connector to all the attributes of the spirit, rather than its outcomes. As you point out, it is difficult for us to conceive of the depths involved in this. Yes, we need to love all people, but as you rightly point out, that is somewhat beyond us to implicate in our lives. If as you suggest, we require holy spirit to attain that level of understanding, it suggests that there is something to learn. But the command is NOW to love our enemies, not that we require perfection or the spirit to do so, but that we do so of our own understanding. So what I’m simply seeking, is understanding on that facet of application that links ALL the attributes of the spirit to that of love, without which, we “have nothing”. In interests me to know. As you point out, we need insight to do that. I am simply seeking a common understanding of how we may increase that insight, just as we seek to increase our faith. We all know the outcomes.

Clearly if we apply faith in the same regard, we know that its principles are many-fold, and we work at these things daily - we “prepare”. I am simply trying to apply the same issues to “love”.

Amar hasta a los enemigos es lo que nos pide Jesús. Quizás haya que poner el ojo en la forma en la que nos ven desde allí arriba. Somos la creación de ellos dos, Jehová y Jesús. El amor que nos tienen de vernos crecer individualmente desde bebes en un escenario no apto para menores. Un pequeño cambio en la gestión de un niño cambia mucho el resultado de este, tal vez buscar ese cambio en el adulto produce buenos resultados y para eso hay que querer tener buenos resultados del prójimo. Algo así como piensa bien y acertarás. Cuando veo a otra persona y le miró a los ojos suelo reflexionar en el niño que fue, en lo que tuvo que ser crecer sin Jehová para el, en ese mandato de predicar el reino y me nace amarlo. No me fijo en sus actos, en el resultado de sus acciones, sino en desviar la atención de todo eso y poder manifestar mi amor en si mismo. Amo al ser humano, me fascina pero en su profundidad, no en la superficie. Me interesa conocer y pararme frente a mi semejante y no me cansa. Terminar diciéndole, vamos, deja todo eso de lo que hablas tan poco importante y vamos a servir a Jehová, eso sí que es grandioso! Creo que el amor parte de la base del amor a Jehová y su necesidad de expresión. Y cuando esa expresión es contemplada por otros produce atención. Indistintamente de la atención, ya sea positiva o negativa, la expresion del amor debe ser contemplada por los demás, nuestro amor a Dios debe ser expresado y así es como lo compartimos. Así estamos amando al prójimo. Porque amar a Jehová es amar su propósito y con el, con ese propósito, su amor se manifiesta en toda su creación.